Party like its 1987?
For those of you who, like me, had just turned six in time for the '87 postseason, here's a refresher on how the Twins won the pennant and got to the big dance for the second to last time:
The Twins finished the season with the worst record of any of the four division champions (85-77) but went on to crush the AL East champion Detroit Tigers four games to one for the American League pennant. Weirdly the Twins had home field advantage, but they wouldn't need it as they took two of three in Detroit as well as their first two at home. The Tigers had finished the season with the best record in baseball (98-64).
Interestingly, the Tigers have been back to the postseason just one time since 1987--in 2006, when the Twins relegated them to the wild card on the last day of the season. I didn't really realize it, but the Twins sort of dashed a generation of Tiger hopes back in 1987 and almost foiled their children's hopes in 2006.
Flash forward to 2009. The question on everyone's mind is, are we caught in a time warp whereby the magic of 1987 will rub off on an eerily similar Twins stretch run? Well, the Tigers or, slightly less likely, the Twins will face the AL East champion New York Yankees in the ALDS, who will finish the year with the best record in baseball... only this time almost certainly with over 100 wins. They'll have home field advantage too. So it's not really like 1987 in that way. BUT, the Twins might just finish with 85 wins once again. That's EXACTLY the same as 1987. They'd just have to go 7-4 over the rest of the season, something eminently doable for a team like ours. Well in that case, the Tigers could simply finish 6-6 to end the season with 86 wins and a division championship. Of course, there are a plethora of scenarios left at this point for how the AL Central will end up, but they are fast diminishing with each new day.
One final observation, lets say the Twins can sweep Detroit. That means Detroit could go 5-3 in the rest of their games not against Minnesota and the Twins could play just 3-4 baseball to take another 85-win division championship. How many wins do you think it will take to win the AL Central this year?
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35 comments
Comments
Games left: 11
on the road: 8
at home: 3
vs. CWS: 1
vs. KC: 6
vs. DET: 4
my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!
by natetheskate on Sep 23, 2009 11:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd just turned 7,
and was, sadly, too busy playing Indiana Jones on my swingset outside.
Still, know what I say? LET’S DO IT AGAIN!
by Jesse on Sep 23, 2009 11:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What are we waiting for???
LET’S GO!!!

LET’S DO IT AGAIN!!!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is!" -John "Bluto" Blutarsky
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Sep 23, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1991
That was a great memory for me, especially since I was in attendance in Game 6 when Kirby took control.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Sep 23, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hrbek
Hrbek in his book said that the whole “Kirby took control” thing got blown out of proportion.
“One of the stories you hear over and over about Puck is how he told his teammates before Game 6 of the 1991 world series to jump on his back, tha the was driving the bus tonight. Well, Puck said that before every game he ever played. Ever time he left the clubhouse he said, ‘Jump on my back, I’m driving the bus tonight.’ We used to laugh at that.”
by werddrew on Sep 23, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he really did drive the bus that night
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Sep 23, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mean
like how it just came out that he called his shot?
As if he’d never done that before he walked into the batter’s box before?
by Milt on Tilt on Sep 23, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Puck was always talking
I really don’t care what he said. He won that game. It was the best moment of my baseball fandom and I won’t let Hrbek’s crap harsh my buzz.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Sep 23, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think there is any "crap" in that Hbek quote, in Milt's statement, maybe.
Anyway, I agree with you, Puckett had a great game and won that game for the Twins. Was it a convergance of luck, timing and fluke? Maybe,. Who cares? Twins fan’s have every right to revel in that wonderful memory of Kirby Puckett lifting his team to a championship.
by montanatwinsfan on Sep 23, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was
negative 2 months when the WS happened. Needless to say I don’t have a lot of memories
http://twinkietalk.com
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by fetch9 on Sep 23, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was 1 month old, resting in my fathers arms ( in '87)
Deolis Guerra = Daniel Cabrera ?
I tend to think so
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Sep 25, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys missed out! :-)
One day, I hope a bunch of kids try to make you feel old for being able to remember Brad Radke or Johan Santana. :-)
by DavidRF on Sep 25, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know, but what's nice are the DVDs of the series.
I know it’s not comparable to the feeling, but at least getting to watch the games…still exciting.
Unfortunately, being 3 months old during the 87 series, I don’t remember much either. :)
"But seriously, the banana guy is just sitting there now quietly taking in the game. You can’t do that. You’re either the banana guy or you’re the businessman." -Daniel Louden
by fischean on Sep 25, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not exactly the same
By the 150 game mark, the Twins were pretty firmly in control. They clinched with most of a week to go and proceeded to lose the last five or six games of the regular season. The Twins of ’09 will undoubtedly have no such luxury. As a matter of fact, they may need a sweep in Detroit to stay in it.
I have pegged 86 victories as the number needed to win the Central. If the Twins get to 85, they may need to win a play-in game to get to the playoffs. Game 163 at the Metrodome? I would love it.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Sep 23, 2009 12:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually
The ‘87 Twins had a six-game winning streak in to push their record from 77-70 to 83-70, bringing their magic number from 12 down to 4, with nine games left to play. They only won two more games, and they didn’t clinch the division until they got their 85th and final win, in the third-to-last game of the season.
Interestingly, at the 150 game mark, the Twins are exactly where the Tigers are now, at 80-70.
my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!
by natetheskate on Sep 23, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, didn't see that the Twins played a 2-game series with KC in October
You’re right, they lost the last 4 games of the season, and clinched with basically a week to go.
Huh, I thought regular season October baseball was a relatively new thing. Guess not.
my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!
by natetheskate on Sep 23, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually it was 5-straight losses to end the season...
(Not that the details matter)
It was a total Jekyll and Hyde season. Every homestand (56-25) felt like a winning streak and every road trip (29-52) felt like a losing streak. They took the lead in the central way for good back on June 8th, but could never put away the competition because of their terrible road play and the A’s or Royals battled back into a tie for the lead several times during the season, but checking the game logs, the Twins never trailed after June 8.
Quite fortuitous that the Twins two playoff appearances fell in the years in the four year cycle where the AL West had home field advantage. :-)
by DavidRF on Sep 23, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
by my count (which is by no means accurate), the ’87 Twins look like they won just 7 road games after the All-Star Break!
my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!
by natetheskate on Sep 23, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember right, one of the delicious ironies of that year was, as bad as they were on the road, the Twins clinched the AL West with a road win in Texas and they took control of the ALCS on the road in Detroit.
by stltwinfan on Sep 23, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True I suppose...
Though they were up 6 with 6 to play when they beat the Rangers, they had already clinched a tie at home the day before. And they had never lost the home-field advantage in the Tigers series. The Detroit wins accelerated things, but they could have held serve like they did in the WS and won anyways. Not really ironies of the delicious nature, but I guess proof they didn’t lose all their games on the road.
The 1991 Juggernaut solidified the legitimacy both Twins championships in my opinion, so I don’t mind playing up the Cinderella-nature of the 1987 playoff run. :-)
by DavidRF on Sep 23, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right about ‘91 legitimizing both, as did the ’88 and ’92 squads, both of whom I think were very solid clubs. Unfortunately those steriod-enhanced, playoff-choking A’s teams stood in the way of what could have been a remarkable run (ignoring of course the slumps of ’89 and ’90).
by stltwinfan on Sep 23, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct!
I remember that Steve Lombadozzi hit a three run homer against the Rangers, and the Twins proceeded to lose every game the rest of the way. The major news media gave the Twins absolutely no chance to win the series. Most of them said sweep or the Twins would win one game.
"I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. See, my mule don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it . . ."
by Skippy tastes better than Jiff on Sep 23, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right though
The Twins had the division lead for most of the ’87 season.
my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!
by natetheskate on Sep 23, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wisdom from Kent Hrbek
“The deal at the beginning of the year was if you win your division you go to the playoffs. We won. If people don’t like it, too bad.”
my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!
by natetheskate on Sep 23, 2009 12:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
1987 vs 2009
Could it happen again?
The big difference between 1987 and today is that they had two aces, and we don’t; no one on the 2009 team really really surpasses Les Straker level. But other than that, the two teams are surprisingly competitive. Which is not how I remembered it.
My memory was that 1987 had a few stars, some really solid players, but unlike this year, everyone was decent or better. But that’s not true; their mix of stars and supporting staff was actually pretty similar. They had almost as many black holes as we do.
We decry our infield this year; but in 1987 Steve Lombardozzi batted a very Puntolike .238/.298/.352.
We worry about our bullpen, but the 1987 team did not have one reliever with an ERA better than 3.94 (Berenguer); the closer, Reardon, was the second best, at 4.48. After them, they got 81 innings from George Frazier (4.98), 79 innings from Keith Atherton (4.54), and 43.2 innings from Dan Schatzeder (6.98). No wonder they lost 77 games!
Their fourth starter in innings and ERA, Mike Smithson, had a 6.98 ERA and won four games!
They only had Don Baylor as DH for 20 games — for 110 games, their DH was Roy Smalley!
Their starting catcher batted .191/.252/389. (.191!)
Dan Gladden batted just .249 with an OPS of .673! I remembered him being good!
I’m not saying this to slag on the 1987 team at all. I think they were a deserving champion. Unlike the regular season, the playoffs only require two great pitchers, which they had; and Straker was solid too. Puckett and Hrbek are what championship teams are all about. Gagne and Gaetti were very good. Brunansky hit 32 homers and had an OPS of .841. They were a team that could beat anybody, when one of their aces was pitching.
But my surprising conclusion is this year’s team was not that far away from that level. One ace pitcher would have done it. But other than lacking Frank Viola (2.90 ERA; Bert’s was only 4.01), the mix of stars (Mauer and Morneau vs. Puckett and Hrbek) and solid supporting cast (Span and Kubel and Cuddyer vs. Brunansky and Gaetti and Gagne) aren’t that far apart, really.
The fielding was better in 1987, but our bullpen today is much better.
If Morneau and Slowey and Neshek and Crede were healthy, the Twins would have won this division.
And if Mauer and Morneau went nuts in the playoffs like Puckett and Hrbek did, they’d go down in history as deserving champions.
Okay, I can’t see Baker, Slowey and company shutting down the Yankees or anyone else for a whole series. (But throw in Garza and Bartlett, and you’d really have something! Sigh.)
Still, other than Viola, it’s a pretty fair matchup. With the recent injuries, we fall behind, but before then, they’re not far apart:
C Laudner——-Mauer
1B Hrbek——-Cuddyer (for Morneau)
2B Lombardozzi——-Punto
SS Gagne——-Cabrera
3B Gaetti——-Tolbert (for Crede)
LF Gladden——-Young
CF Puckett——-Span
RF Brunansky——-Kubel (Cuddyer)
DH Baylor——-Harris (for Kubel)
OF Bush——-Gomez
DH Smalley——-Morales
IF Newman——-Casilla
IF Larkin——-Buscher
C Butera——-Redmond
SP Blyleven——-Baker
SP Viola ——-Pavano (for Slowey)
SP Straker——-Blackburn
SP Smithson——-Duensing
SP Niekro——-Liriano?
CL Reardon——-Nathan
RP Berenguer——-Guerrier
RP Frazier——-Mijares
RP Atherton——-Rauch
RP Schatzeder——-Crain
So is their hope for 2009? Even without Morneau?
Suppose Liriano reenters the rotation and starts shutting everyone down…Kubel and Cuddyer stay hot, and Span, Cabrera and Punto keep getting on base, and Mauer stays Mauer….
Nah, I still don’t see them having enough pitching to get past a strong offense for seven games. But if they pick up an ace in the free agent market, and a few young pitchers emerge as studs…maybe next time.
by by jiminy on Sep 23, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
great, thanks.
except I think it is hardly comparable to try and compare a 2009 Baker and Pavano to a 1987 Blyleven and Viola.
You said it yourself – two aces is all it takes. And I’ve said it before and will repeat it, Baker and Pavano and Blackburn can hardly inspire confidence in anyone.
Baker is fine, but I wouldn’t take him in a single game bet over CC Sabathia ever.
by montanatwinsfan on Sep 23, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would. As much as I love Baker I loathe Sabathia.
Having said that, the bet would have to be $10 or lower. I’m betting on principle only.
by Jesse on Sep 23, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two big differences...
…between ’87 and this season:
1) The Twins’ were in first place virtually all of ’87, and in first more days than either the ’65 or ’91 Twins. (three bits of surprising news to everyone here.)
2) There was no team in the league in ’87 like the 2009 Yankees.
Cherry-picking that tosses out realities like that combined with naive wishful thinking – the themes of this thread – ain’t gonna change nothin’.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Sep 24, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is!" -John "Bluto" Blutarsky
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Sep 24, 2009 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay......
A lot is team management. Right now, dispite the way the averages look, Tolbert and Young and Punto are producing, Sadly, they got a lot of play when they weren’t producing, but others were picking up the slack.
The Twins have had a consistent Mauer, Kubel and Cuddyer.
The pitching is all over the place. You have Blackburn work towards a shutout after not alsting more than a few innings in quite a run of starts. You have stud Baker not getting to the 5th. What gives?
The bullpen ahs been really consistent of late. You can’t expect Mijares, Guerrier and Nathan to be spotless every outing (hey, they average 2 runs a game scored). Crain is the shining light with the new guys. Even Keppel ahs some new life.
Liriano is still a 4.50 pitcher, sadly. Gabino and Manship are mop-up guys at best, sadly.
Wish the Twins had gotten that 5th aging starter for a couple of minor league guys.
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
by rosterman on Sep 23, 2009 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
5th starter
Unless it’s Jake Peavy, there aren’t many aging starters they could have gotten who could beat a 4.5 ERA, so they may as well give Liriano a shot. It’s kind of fitting. They started the season knowing that out of Baker, Slowey and Liriano, two would have to emerge as playoff-quality pitchers. That hasn’t happened—but the funny thing is it’s not too late! If Liriano and Baker get hot, they could still do it. Say he throws a shutout Sunday and his confidence surges. Who knows!
by by jiminy on Sep 24, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let the geezer through
I was 27 when the boys won their first series. Prior to that about the only highlight I remember is Carew being traded to the Angels. 76 to 86 was a pretty bad decade, almost as bad as 93-99. I’m of the opinion that Tom Kelly only had 3 really good years (88, 91 and 92), and oddly, 87 wasn’t one of them (87 and 00 I would call adequate). It was circumstance and the ability to seize an opportunity that made that team great. I guess that’s why I cut Gardenhire a little more slack than most on this board because I have had a reason to be interested in September baseball six of the last eight years, which is a lot better than I ever got from Mauch, Gardener or even Kelly.
Now if you’ll excuse me I have to yell at some kids to get off my lawn and turn that damn noise down.
The only stat that counts is W
by wayback on Sep 23, 2009 6:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kelly did a mind-meld on the Tigers.
It was simply superb coaching. The Twins ran circles around the Tigers on the bases, and the pickoff play on Evans at 3rd sank the Tigers like a stone. You could almost see their spirits drop after that play.
"I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. See, my mule don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it . . ."
by Skippy tastes better than Jiff on Sep 24, 2009 1:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Excellent post Nate!
It seems I’ve been telling people not to give up on the Twins for a while now. Especially the “We’ll just get swept anyway” people. You said it very well, thanks!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is!" -John "Bluto" Blutarsky
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Sep 24, 2009 2:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Punto is here to play!
How bout our new everyday second baseman? coming in hot just in time
by ssnumber21 on Sep 24, 2009 6:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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