Minnesota Twins 2010 Payroll
by Jesse on Jan 20, 2010 8:04 AM EST
in News
63 comments
Now that all the arbitration figures are in, let's see how payroll breaks down for this summer so far, shall we?
Be sure to hit the FanPosts, where DJSkillz has already started the conversation.
Findings after the jump...
|
Position |
Player |
'10 Salary (MM) |
|
C |
$12.5 |
|
|
1B |
$14 |
|
|
2B |
$4 |
|
|
3B |
$1.45 |
|
|
SS |
$5.1 |
|
|
LF |
$2.6 |
|
|
CF |
$0.45 (e) |
|
|
RF |
$8.5 |
|
|
DH |
$4.1 |
|
|
Total |
|
$52.7 |
That's already about 78% of last year's payroll. And when was the last time the starting nine had only one player making less than a cool million?
|
Pos |
Name |
'10 Salary (MM) |
|
IF |
$0.43 (e) |
|
|
IF |
$0.42 (e) |
|
|
C |
$0.42 (e) |
|
|
OF |
$0.40 (e) |
|
|
Total |
|
$1.67 |
I've never been opposed to running a team on a budget. Which is definitely what the Twins aren't doing this year. But this, if nothing changes from here to opening day, will be your bench. There are a couple of things to be excited about, but there's not too much you'd want to rely on for a long stretch of time if anyone gets hurt. Bench depth is still an issue, although it would be helped greatly by bringing in a versatile fourth outfielder, and a second or third baseman that would shift Punto or (more likely) Harris to the bench.
|
Pos |
Name |
'10 Salary (MM) |
|
SP |
$3 |
|
|
SP |
$0.45 (e) |
|
|
SP |
$7 |
|
|
SP |
$0.45 (e) |
|
|
SP |
$1.6 |
|
|
Totals |
|
$12.5 |
Over the next couple of years this rotation will get incrementally more expensive--in fact if the young four are still around in three or four years, this could be a very expensive rotation.
|
Role |
Name |
'10 Salary (MM) |
|
CL |
$11.25 |
|
|
SU |
$3.15 |
|
|
SU |
$0.42 (e) |
|
|
RP |
$2 |
|
|
RP |
$2.9 |
|
|
RP |
$0.625 |
|
|
Long |
$0.44 (e) |
|
|
Totals |
|
$20.365 |
It might be worth looking up to see how this ranks in terms of the most expensive bullpen in baseball.
Position Players: $52.7
Bench: $1.67
Rotation: $12.5
Bullpen: $20.365
Total: $87.235
Of course that total doesn't include guys like Brian Duensing or Clay Condrey (who signed for $900,000), but it's a pretty accurate starting point for where we sit right now. If this total is accurate, are the Twins done?
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Interesting Note
My calculations were a bit different because my Morneau and Cuddyer figures were a little different. Normally I go off of Cot’s, and I did for most that I didn’t already have, but I saw Joe Christensen’s posted as $15 million for Morneau and $9.147 million for Cuddyer.
I’m not sure where that extra $1.647 million (combined) comes from. Overall, my 26-man roster then was right at $90 million (I included both Condry and Neshek, but no Perkins). I decided to go with Condry because Gardy said yesterday that he will be in the bullpen.
by Twins Territory on Jan 20, 2010 8:24 AM EST reply actions
Prorated bonuses
Cuddyer got a $3m bonus when he signed his 3 year contract. Morneau got a $6M bonus when he signed his 6 year contract. Those are prorated to calculate average annual value, but shouldn’t matter when deciding payroll room for this year.
by Jon Kammerer on Jan 20, 2010 8:29 AM EST up reply actions
You beat me to it.
I just found those signing bonus figures and was in the process of writing them. It makes good sense now why Joe C. had his numbers a bit higher.
by Twins Territory on Jan 20, 2010 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
If I change my Morneau/Cuddyer figures to the lower numbers, with 26 players, mine is at $88.52 million. Fairly similar, and unless we’re on the inside, we can’t know exact contract breakdowns.
by Twins Territory on Jan 20, 2010 8:28 AM EST reply actions
I think saying we're in the upper 80's is accurate enough for right now.
I think most people will come up in the range we have, give or take.
Yep.
Approaching $90 million is a pretty good picture. If they are willing to go to $95 million as I feel the Washburn offer indicates, we may have up to $6 million to spend on a fourth outfielder or second basemen.
by Twins Territory on Jan 20, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
Split the difference.
Offer Crede $1 million, Randy Wynn $3 million. Better bench, better defense. I think if there’s only that five or six million left and you WANT a veteran fourth OF, you might have to go this route.
Otherwise, go ahead and use it all on Felopez or Orludson.
What are your thoughts on Eric Byrnes?
by Twins Territory on Jan 20, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
A couple of things.
I just read this, so he clearly hits too many infield flies…it’s almost like a negative skill.
But he’s generally a good fielder historically, and the tools still appear to be there for him to be a contributor on offense. If he were available for a minimum, I’d be okay with him.
Also
It sounds like Byrnes could potentially sign for the minimum. The D-Backs have to pay him $11 million, so he’ll be making good money anyways.
by Twins Territory on Jan 20, 2010 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
Bats right
What’s the point? The Twins need a reserve outfielder who gives them a platoon advantage – bats left.
Platoon advantage
isn’t as important as having another outfielder who can field, and not look painful doing it. A guy like Byrnes is more likely to sign with the Twins by seeing it as an opportunity to out-perform Delmon into a starting role anyway. And in a lineup where he’d be replacing Delmon, rather than swapping with him, the right-handed part of the equation isn’t as important.
Maybe I haven't given this enough thought
but this has to be the least impressive 90+ million team in baseball.
Or are all teams increasing payroll so 90 million is the new 70 million?
I think it says more about the Twins' talent being on either side of the scale.
The Twins don’t have any really, really good young players who are pre-arbitration…except Denard, and maybe Slowey if he pitches like he’s capable of this year. That, and for the first time ever, this team can afford to flesh out their roster with a bunch of guys making $2-3 million dollars. In years past there would have been no Jon Rauch, no J.J. Hardy, probably no Jesse Crain and guys like Nick Punto wouldn’t have been given the deal he did…which, really, isn’t all that bad.
Also in years past, we wouldn’t have been able to afford to keep so many star players at once. Nathan, Mauer, Morneau, Kubel, Span, Cuddyer…there are some really talented guys on this club.
This is a team that can win 90 games as it stands…and $1 million per win is still a good rate in today’s game.
I agree, in some senses it seems like there should be more talent around for $90 million, but I think we’ve taken for granted the stability we get with that kind of money. We should have a kick-ass bullpen, a very strong offensive unit and some pretty solid starting pitching. This $90 million allowed us to bring in Hardy and retain Pavano, but most of it is used to keep stars in Minnesota.
Sorry, I’m kind of all over the place here. I just imagine where we’d be with a standard $65-$70 million payroll and I cringe.
$90M doesn't buy what it used to
A team strictly buying free agent talent would be expected to win around 68 games with a $90M payroll. Every team but the Yankees is going to have some holes that will need to be filled with serfs and retreads. I think we’ve got a playoff caliber club and $90M doesn’t guarantee that. Look at the Astros.
by Jon Kammerer on Jan 20, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
I see the caluofmn's point
When thinking about the payroll jumping to 90 million this year I had big dreams of getting an Ace pitcher and a big name infielder. While their aren’t names that absolutely dazzle a person our team does look pretty good. In the past trading cheap Gomez for kind of expensive Hardy never would have happened and he might very well be our all star infielder this year.
I’ll be very interested to see what the Twins do in the future next year we’ll be cutting bait on players like Guerrier, Crain, Rauch, Pavano, and Punto. That’s nearly 20 million!!! I was thinking the Twins would be in tough shape next year after picking up the Cuddy option but the money appears to be there. I realize the Twins will spend a decent amount on raises for players and could likely try to retain one of Guerrier/Crain/Rauch but overall there ought to be money left to pick up another player if needed.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Good shape but some concerns
That’s 3 righthanded relievers, a utility infielder and an innings eater starting pitcher. They can spend Pavano’s money on Blackburn and Slowey and replace the bullpen from within. The rest ($13M) is going to Joe Mauer.
Hopefully not
I hope Mauer doesn’t get 25 million a year because that’s what you are proposing. However, he very well could I’m just hoping that doesn’t happen as it will hurt the Twins in the long run.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
plus
if Delmon still is not Demon by the end of the season, it saves the Twins another $3-5 million dollars which he would probably command as the additional contract. By next year, if Delmon does not show us anything this year, we replace him with a little guy by the name of Ben Revere.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Jan 20, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
+1
if the Twins kept the budget at $65 – $70 million and pocketed all the extra money from Tarfield :) there would be 1. a riot and 2. probably not enough talent around Cuddyer, Kubel, Span and the M&M Machine to win the division…
but the Twins and a $90 million payroll…I’m just having a hard time wrapping my head around that after so many years of below $80 million payrolls…
Hudson
We should be able to get Hudson for around $4 mil plus incentives for one year. Then pick up an outfielder like Winn, etc. or even a bench bat like Sweeney. We would still be under $100 mil. for the payroll.
this is what I mean
the Twins and close to $100 million payroll just makes my head spin… it’s like the Bizzaroworld Twins or something…what’s next a change in jerseys? Ha
Hudson
was looking for $9 million a week or so ago. No team will pay him that, but I don’t know how far it’ll drop. Some writers seem to think he’ll eventually settle between $6 million and $6.5 million. Felipe Lopez might be more like $5 million.
The big thing with both is years. It seems it’ll have to be two years, but three years might be the deal maker for any team.
by Twins Territory on Jan 20, 2010 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Trade
What is left out there that the Twins could trade for to improve at 2B, as apparently that is the position they are looking to improve now.
Brandon Phillips? Possibility, but there has not even been a Tweet about the Twins being interested.
Dan Uggla? Just signed a one year contract, which doesn’t mean he wont get traded.
What would the Twins have to give up in order to free up payroll for one of these players? Perkins + Crain + Tolbert/Casilla would get us Phillips. What about Uggla? I hate to think.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
I am still holding out
that the Twins sign O-Dawg or Lopez. But in order to fit them into our budget, we would have to trade away Crain for a prospect. Knowing how valuable Guerrier was this past year, I am not really willing to trade him.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Not necessarily
If they were willing to spend 5 million on Washburn then they could likely afford to get Lopez at the very least. They could probably even commit to a 2 year deal which might bring the price per year down a bit.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
This is true
but one must wonder who is more important to the Twins at this point. If the Twins are planning on signing Washburn/Davis, then they must make a trade. However, would the budget allow for that? In my mind, it won’t. $5 million to Washburn, subtract $3 million in a trade for a $5-7 million second baseman? It just isnt going to work.
Twins should push hard for O-Dawg or Lopez. Rotation is set and they can always trade Perkins/Crain/etc during the first few months.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Jan 20, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
If the Twins sign a veteran pitcher like Washburn for $5 million, the player they trade will likely be Glen Perkins. He is only $500,000. If they move Casilla as well, then they’ve saved $1 million total.
Right now the team is at about $89 million. If they are offering Washburn $5 million, one must think they are comfortable between $94-$95 million.
It sounds like Lopez/Hudson will be anywhere from $5-$6 million.
by Twins Territory on Jan 20, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn't work like that
You can’t save any money trading Perkins or Casilla. They’re taking up the minimum salary. If you dump either of them you have to pay that $500k to someone else. You can save roster spots by trading them.
True.
With that disregarded, they should have around $5 million or so to spend on free agents still.
by Twins Territory on Jan 20, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Benchmarks
This is now a mid-market team and we should probably be using Seattle, Arizona and Denver as benchmarks. Minnesota has a bigger market than Cleveland & KC and a better market (due to economic conditions) than Detroit. There’s room for $100M – especially since making the playoffs just became more lucrative due to capturing more stadium revenue. I think they want to keep some of that money in the bank in case they want a veteran to replace an injured/ineffective player.
Arm-chair prediction.....
The Harris signing is quite interesting. Looks like he’ll replace Punto in 2011. I do wonder if the Twins may be seeking a second baseman who can play more than one season, possibly 3-4, for a decent rate of return. There is currently no one in the system, and a trade would be best…sending out Casilla, Tolbert, Perkins (two of them) for someone, anyone, thus also freeing up a pitching spot.
Harris/Punto could hold down third while the Twins take a good look at Valencia at AAA and, hopefully, some major league time. I wouldn’t feel bad abut having Punto AND Harris as infield backups.
That bullpen…wow! Still, if the Twins have any minor league strength, it will be arms for the bullpen, and they should have a modest opportunity to showcase a couple of bodies this season. I’m not feeling so abd if Rauch/Crain/Guerrier go down. If there is a weakness, it’s from the left-side, unless Duensing is truly a long-man out of the bullpen.
It will be interesting to see the Revere push. Does he make AAA ball midway thru the season. Does he get a call-up before September. Do the Twins gamble and have him as the 4th outfielder next year. Does that mean the end of Delmon? Is there someone ready to shine in 2012 when the Twins make the Cuddyer decision. Will Kubel go outfield or play out his days at DH. Sometimes wonder if the Twins would be better with Kubel in the outfield and swapping out Delmon and his salary for a DH (like Thome, for example).
The Twins starters can all get raises in 2011 and still come in under the pay of Pavano. Hopefully, a new tryout will emerge in the 2010 season, not to mention the possibilities of Swarzak or Manship joinging the backend of the rotation. Hey, the Twins could still move Pavano if the youngsters do shine!
There’s still the Crede factor!
And the bonus money to Mauer to sign. If it happens, the extra $10-15 million would happen this year. WIll Joe take $15 million a year for 7 years, with a $15 million siging bonus? Will it be $18 million, $20 million? I think it may be the length that takes the time. But however you look at the situation, Joe NEEDS to remain a Minnesota Twin, and at some point, a $15 million salary will seem cheap in the market for a frranchise player.
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
$15 million per year won't even start a conversation.
$20 million per year would be a huge hometown discount. I don’t think they can ask him to sign for $50 million less than he could somewhere else.
Much higher
Try 7 years $165M or $23M a season. I can’t see why Joe would take less than Sabathia.
+ a signing bonus
That’s the starting point for an extension and I bet it costs $5M in salary bump for this year also. Say hello to your starting 2B – Nick Punto. The Yankees and Red Sox are rumored to be willing to pay 7 years @ $200M. $170M is a 15% hometown discount.
I can go with 7/$170.
It seems like a good midway point between the lowball speculation and the Yankee/Red Sox puddle of drool.
Yankees/Red Sox hypothetical offers aren't really comparable
From Mauer’s perspective, he’s looking at the Twins offer now versus what he COULD get next offseason, assuming he doesn’t (a) get injured or (b) have a mediocre or bad season. Those factors should give a considerable discount—home-town favoratism aside—to what he’d be willing to take this offseason from the Twins. What the Sox or Yankees will offer him is based on a season’s worth of information we don’t have right now. And generally, coming off the best season of your career is a great time to negotiate (all the more so if it happens to be about the best season ever by a catcher).
My 2 cents: give him 10 years, 200 million.
When do we panic?
At what point is it okay to panic about no Mauer announcement? Mid February?
Panic? Around the end of October.
Be baffled and dubious? By the time spring training games start.
I just believe it will get done. It’s only a matter of when. But sooner is always better than later, especially in this instance. Because at some point, people will start to panic.
Does anyone think...
that if there is no deal at the start of the season, Mauer might tell the Twins/media he won’t negoiate until the end of the season?
Of course he would do while smiling and telling everyone he would not want it to be a distraction…
I’m hoping we get to celebrate Joe being a Twin for next 6 to 7 years on opening day… I really doubt it will be announced at Twinsfest, but how cool would it be if it were?
That would be pretty damn awesome.
I’m not sure what Joe would say about discussions during the season, but if they can do it all behind the scenes now then I’m sure they could do it behind the scenes then as well. I don’t know, I’m just a firm believer that there’s just no way in hell an extension doesn’t happen.
Arbitration out of the way
This helps clarify the budget for 2010, making negotiating a signing bonus easier. Hopefully, the remaining offseason priorities are extend Joe and then find an infielder, in that order. Cuddy and Morneau signed before Twinsfest. I’d expect the negotions to go into the start of spring training like Nathan’s did.
by Jon Kammerer on Jan 21, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Any chance..
of trading for Uggla? I would say no, given his salary. I had heard that Hudson is still the Twins’ first choice, with a backup plan of O. Cabrera and/or Crede. I haven’t even heard the the Twins mentioned in any Uggla trade talks.
I think it's total speculation with Uggla.
And even if he’s available at this point, I doubt he goes to us.
Harris Contract
I think it is a low cost solution to third base next season that it will be him and Valencia there to keep costs down there so many can be spent elsewhere.
Hopefully they’ll get one more IF for this year either Hudson, Lopez, then Tejada for 5 mill or so and we’ll be ready for the season.
Man the bullpen looks deep. so much so I wonder if we could use that in a trade for maybe kouzmanoff ….. Slama or Casilla and Perkins at the deadline saving 2/3 of kouzmanoff’s contract this year….just sayin…
Doofenschmirtz Evil, INC.
Phineas and Ferb
I don't think Oakland would flip Kouz like that, after trading for him.
It’s not impossible, but it’s probably improbable.
It is also possibly impossible that Oakland trades Kouz
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Jan 20, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
It's fantasically fantastic!
On a scale from Matthew LeCroy to Kirby Puckett, I'm about a Luis Rivas.
It’s even more improbable in my opinion because he just accepted arbitration for $3.1 million. His production isn’t great, but I’d think it’s well worth that price.
by Twins Territory on Jan 20, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Very true. I would take him for $3.1 million. Especially since Brendan Harris will be getting around $1.5 mil. I would be just as happy with signing Orlando Hudson, however.
An off-season of J.J. Hardy, Carl Pavano, Orlando Hudson and Clay Condry would be very solid in my opinion.
by Twins Territory on Jan 20, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
I agree 100%. If 3B is a problem around the deadline (after going 1/2 the season with Harris/Punto), package some prospects together if need be to win the division.
or call up
a young kid by the name of Danny Valencia.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Jan 20, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Just thought I’d post my payroll if it’s alright. It’s got 26 players because I just don’t know what the team will do in the ‘pen. Conrdy is a lock according to Gardy, so it’ll be between the extra starter, Neshek and maybe Crain for Opening Day.
by Twins Territory on Jan 20, 2010 4:44 PM EST reply actions
I like it.
It looks like the only places we’re different are on pre-arb players anyway…a difference of a few hundred K. It will be interesting to see what the “official” payroll for opening day will be if they don’t make another move.
heres to hoping
that the Twins do make another move, i.e. sign Orlando or Felipe.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Jan 20, 2010 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
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