Poll: What Are Twins Priorities Heading Into Spring Training?
by Jesse on Jan 21, 2010 5:45 PM EST
in Speculation
30 comments
With pitchers and catchers reporting in just a few weeks, there are still a few things left for Minnesota to tackle.
Starting Pitching: As Howard Sinker notes in his latest blog entry (now Section 219), the fifth rotation spot is still up for grabs. Big names like Ben Sheets and Erik Bedard are still available, but our old buddy Jarrod Washburn is probably on speed dial. No doubt this could still be seen as a priority, but is it more important than...
Third Base: Right now we're looking at a combination of Brendan Harris and Matt Tolbert, with a bit of Nick Punto and maybe some Daniel Valencia thrown in. This is a position that is still very easy to upgrade, no matter which side of the equation you want to look at. Joe Crede and his Gold Glove-esque defensive whiz skills are still available, and so is veteran Miguel Tejada whose offensive upside might be a little more tempting. The Twins still haven't had a regular third baseman since Corey Koskie, and that's now officially half a decade and running.
Second Base: Almost as much a source of frustration as third base, at least Luis Castillo was around for a season and a half. Two of the best free agent upgrades still available, Felipe Lopez and Orlando Hudson, are second baseman...and there are very few second base jobs available. Of course, Adam Kennedy seems to have drawn some interest recently as well. Does the number of viable options still available make this a bigger priority, or a smaller one?
Fourth Outfielder: With a young and inexperienced bench going forward without another move, and Jason Kubel not really any more of a viable fielder than Delmon Young, bringing in a good and versatile outfielder who's resume includes time in center field has to be on your mind. Rocco Baldelli has the coolest name, Xavier Nady has a history of good defense, Randy Winn is my own personal favorite and, as of yesterday, Eric Byrnes is available. Is Johnny Damon even in the conversation? As it stands only Denard Span can play center field, and he's also the only outfield defender who can run.
For a fairly comprehensive list of the best names still available on the market, check out Jerry Crasnick's rundown. Also, for the record, I don't think a lot of the names I've mentioned are really in the conversation for the Twins--but there are still a number of realistic scenarios that could play themselves out over the next few weeks.
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We dont need
a 4th outfielder. We have little money to spend and theres no point to pay a couple million to an outfielder when we can just use pridie. We only need him for defense so no matter who we get they wont help our lineup
Not true
If Span is injured they’re going to end up playing Pridie every day. That could cost them a few wins.
Exactly.
Saying we don’t need a fourth outfielder is a little short-sighted. You don’t need five fingers, but you’re better with them than without them.
I understand saying “It’s not our biggest concern”, but there’s no way it isn’t one. Like you said, there needs to be a plan in case Span goes down for an extended period of time. Pridie might be ok for a breather, but it’s just better to have a reliable backup. And you won’t have to say much to get one, maybe two million.
Finally, and this is a big plus, it makes the bench better. That bench needs help.
by Jesse on Jan 21, 2010 7:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Humans don't have five fingers
It’s four a thumb. They’ll live with Pridie. If Span goes down, guess what? There’s Ben Revere.
by Old Twins Cap on Jan 22, 2010 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, there's Revere.
On a contending team I’d still rather have Randy Winn. Revere will have his time when he’s ready.
Having said that, I am looking forward to seeing what he does with his spring training invite.
These are all marginal upgrades at best
Sign Hudson or Lopez and I’ll agree to any other upgrade the team wants to make. Unless they do that, anything else is going to feel like a waste of money.
Agreed
While an injury to Span would be horrific there isn’t much on the FA market that would be worth 2 or 3x more than will pay Pridie. The only passable CFers in Crasnick’s article are roid boy Ankiel (who posted a .285 OBP in the NL), maybe a fossilized Reed Johnson or Randy Winn, maybe Rocco who is more a name than a legit option. It’s a crappy class.
Pirdie is the 5th OFer who can play good defense, make a dozen spot starts in CF and be a defensive replacement/pinch runner. He has that skill set, he’s league minimum and he’s only 26.
I think the idea
behind signing a veteran 4th outfielder is knowing what you have. Pridie is a toolsy non-prospect with disappointing numbers…probably good enough for spot starts and corner outfield replacement late in games, but if you need something more I’d rather bank on a guy who’s already done it, rather than hope Pridie somehow outplays his profile.
4th outfielders
Ideally you want someone who can field CF and hit lefthanded. I think a minor league offer to Endy Chavez or Rick Ankiel would be a great idea.
JIM EDMONDS
Yeah, I know that doesn’t seem likely, but I have a mancrush on the guy, and will hold out hope….
by Steven Ellingson on Jan 21, 2010 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
Is Endy Chavez a free agent?
He’d be a good pickup for a 4th OF…. great defense, no bat.
by Steven Ellingson on Jan 21, 2010 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Yes - EC is a FA
But he’s coming off a knee injury and won’t be ready to start the season.
2B
It looks like the numbers are pretty close on the infield spots. I really don’t understand why people want a 3B over a 2B. Here’s my argument (it’s about to get lengthy). Let me know if I missed anything.
We need lineup balance. Say we get the top dogat 3B, Tejada. The highest he hits in this lineup is 7th. By the Allstar break he may be hitting 9th due to the atrition of a 37 year old ex-steroid user. Even if he replicates last year, there’s a reasonable chance that Hardy and Young (crossin fingers here) outproduce him and he ends up in the 9 hole anyway. His defense will probably be mediocre at best. Plus, this forces Punto into our everyday #2 hitter, unless you believe Mauer is headed back to the 2 hole. Gardy could throw Cuddy or Kubel in the 2 hole, but I can’t believe that anyone thinks that’s an ideal situation.
On top of this, UZR says that Punto is a borderline GG candidate at 3B. A lot of people think 2B is a good fit, but he is mearly mediocre at 2B, again using UZR. Now, UZR is not the end all, but the spread on those numbers is too much to ignore. When the Twins are in the field I would much prefer that Punto be manning 3B over 2B, all offensive production being equal, which leads to…
Having arguably the best hitter in the AL as your catcher means you don’t need to have prototypical 3B production. I hear this argument all the time that the best teams in the game have slugging 3B. This is simply not true. The Phillies had a weak hitting D stud and seemed to do fine the last couple seasons. The Angels have had Figgins manning the hot corner and they’re perenial playoff contenders. This notion is misguided. If you can field production at other positions, there is no need to follow this thinking like Gardy follows the pesky MI at the 2nd spot in the lineup.
Finally, the upside to signing a 2B. First, both the 2B’s available are just flat out better than Tejada at this point. They would immediately be plugged into the 2 hole, a lineup spot that I find much more crucial than 7. Maybe I’m wrong on this point. As I mentioned above, it allows Punto to play his strongest position in the field and bat 9th, which I think we can all agree is ideal. Hell, getting a 2B may even send Punto into a platoon at 3B/super utility role again if Harris is really getting the 3B job here or Valencia wins the job.
And one last point, which is in reference to the argument in the first couple posts about a 4th outfielder. You more or less solve this problem as well by signing a 2B. Should Span go down for an extended period, Gardy just bumps up his 2B to the leadoff spot and puts the 3B (Harris or Punto) in the 2 hole. Pridie then minimizes his detriment to the lineup as the 9 hitter (I’m not worried about his defense as he may be better than Span). You still take a hit of course since replacing a top 5 AL leadoff man is pretty impossible, but this would be the absolute best way to minimize the impact on the lineup.
All in all, I think too many people fall into the mindset that you need a slugging 3B. While if you are building a typical lineup that would be preferred, any lineup that lists Mauer is already a-typical. We have enough slow, but good hitting players on this squad. Our priority needs to be speed paired with OBP. The available 2B provide that. The 3B don’t.
by PinkiePinkerton on Jan 21, 2010 7:12 PM EST reply actions
Hudson and Lopez are the best fits for many reasons
Both guys are decent OBP switch hitters. Felipe Lopez can fill 2B or 3B is still relatively young and will probably be cheaper. He might fall right in their lap.
I'm guessing you will get one or the other
If the Twins have 5M to spend, then yes, go out and get Hudson or Lopez. I’m guessing they don’t. I wouldn’t mind having Crede back for another year at 3rd to give Valencia a bit more time and one or two cups of coffee in the bigs. I’d like them to go out and get both Lopez and Crede, but it does not look like they are doing this.
by diehardtwinsfan on Jan 21, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Somewhere in there I think Pinkie convinced me
I voted “3b”, but I think it might be a situation where 3b should theoretically be easier to upgrade, but the free agent options at 2b are actually better. I like Punto as a 2b a little better though. And something makes me want to believe that Harris can be good (might be the high socks). Gosh, I’m torn.
Btw, I think Xavier Nady is arguably a cooler name than Rocco Baldelli. “Randy Winn” is also cool because it makes you think about what it would be like to get a win that was, you know, randy.
+1
We can get a bigger upgrade at 2B than 3B at this point.
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Jan 22, 2010 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
I think that's the decision-maker for me, in the end.
As much as I talk about getting a fourth outfielder, the best players still available are at a position of need for the Twins: second base. Either of these guys should help solidify the top of the lineup, allow the Twins do drop Hardy down to after the big hitters and as a result make the bottom of the lineup a little better, too.
It also helps my other concern, which is the bench. In this scenario, either Punto or Harris will always be available to come off the bench in case of injury, or to pinch run, or for late-inning changes or whatever, and that would be a strength for us.
EXACTLY RIGHT!!!
It’s not that a 3rd baseman, 5th starter or 4th outfielder wouldn’t be an improvement, the improvement would be marginal when compared how much better they would be with Hudson or Lopez at 2nd.
For me....
The big priority is getting a second basemen. I feel that getting someone like Orlando Hudson or Felipe Lopez will solve the infield puzzle and the two-hole spot in the lineup.
I’ve received indications that the team is comfortable with Harris at third base if there is no sensible upgrade, and personally I agree. If the team can get a 2B, Harris can do the job with Punto behind him and Valencia in the waiting when he’s ready.
After that, a cheap 4th outfielder would be a huge plus. Eric Byrnes is owed $11 million by the D-Backs next year, and it sounds like he’ll be signing somewhere for the minimum because of that financial backing.
by Twins Territory on Jan 21, 2010 9:36 PM EST reply actions
RE: Byrnes
My question with him is—how healhty is he?
Also, what’s his incentive for playing for the Twins? In any scenario he’d have to put in a little time in order to, presumably, take over Delmon’s spot in the lineup. Would he be willing to do that? If another team out there is willing to hand him a starting job, that might hurt the chances of a team like Minnesota who would bring him in as a backup to begin with.
Here's a thought.....
Let’s assume that Morneau will be back at full strength for this season, what about the idea of putting Cuddyer at third or at least giving him a shot at it during spring training, I know there would be a downside because he does have a good arm that we could use in the outfield. The upside is that Cuddy seems to be very solid wherever he plays, and we could probably use an existing player in the outfield or sign an above average guy for next to nothing. Any lineup that gives us Morneau, Mauer, Cuddy, and Kubel batting in every game gives us a good shot, even on the days when Mauer isn’t catching he could DH and Kubel could move to the field………..anyhow, just a thought, if it was a perfect world MLB would allow us to clone Mauer and thaw out Ted Williams but we’ll save that for the next episode of Star Trek
We tried Cuddyer at third five years ago
and it was a massive clusterf**k. In an emergency I’m sure he’d still be available, but at this point in his career changing his position isn’t going to do him or the team any good. Besides, then you need to start Kubel in the field everyday, and with him and Delmon in the corners our outfield defense suddenly becomes worse than it already is. Justin, Joe, Cuddles and Kubel’s beard should still be playing everyday anyway.
I like the outside-the-box idea, but unfortunately it’s already been tried with Epic Fail results.
Now…this Ted Williams/Star Trek idea? Let’s expound on this a bit. I’m intrigued.
Who's body would you put Ted William's head on?
Is there something in Pridie’s contract that forbids such a move? I mean, he’s still a minor league serf, right? Would it be worth it to him, to have his head frozen for a few years, while Ted’s head rings up massive numbers with his body, and then later on they could switch the head’s back, and Pridie could say, “well, my body had a great career.”
Delmon Young
Swapping Ted’s head onto Delmon’s body would be perfect.
I'm not convinced
that Ted Williams’ brain could keep Delmon’s body from swinging at bad pitches. It’s a built in reaction
LMAO what did I start?
I never thought that the Ted Williams comment would be followed with so many ideas……..can we get Gomez back and put Ted’s head on him, it should instantly take care of the mental lapse issues….lol.
THE TWINS NEED A 2B...
Brendan Harris is an underratered 3rd baseman, so we are good at the 3B position. Also, we can use Punto at 3rd. I just don’t trust Casilla at 2nd base. I think the Twins should sign Orlando Hudson. He is a great defensive player, and also a good hitter.
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