Analysis and Fallout: Thome Signs With Twins
If I had to describe this signing in a word? "Good."
Ladies and gentlemen, your bench just got a lot better. Forget who-gets-whose plate appearances for the moment, because it doesn't matter in regards to the bench. Now, where there was youth and inexperience, there's a little something extra. Whether you like this pick up or not, there's no way around this fact: Having Jim Thome available to pinch hit instead of Alexi Casilla or Matt Tolbert or Jose Morales or Jason Pridie...is a good thing.
The Contract
It's a one-year deal worth $1.5 million, with $750,000 in playing time incentives. He'll get an additional $100,000 for 250, 300 and 350 plate appearances, then an additional $150,000 for 400, 450 and 500 plate appearances. That's it, pretty cut and dried.
Why This Is A Good Signing
Things are always better when they work on a number of levels. First, you already know that getting Thome makes the bench better. Second, it's a one-year contract. Third, if something goes completely haywire and Thome short-circuits, it's no loss. Fourth, Thome still brings some skills to the table which are insanely valuable: power, and the ability to get on base.
Thome turned 39 in August, but that didn't stop him from compiling a .249/.372/.493 line as Chicago's designated hitter last summer prior to his trade to the Dodgers. In the classic mold of an aging power hitter he's a couple of years removed from being able to hit for average, but it doesn't keep him from getting on base. The man is a walks machine--he's posted a 15% walk rate or better every year since 1994. Do you know how many seasons there are in which Joe Mauer has walked in 15% of his plate appearances? None.
His skills demand respect. (Of course, if you're not willing to go that route then his 6-3, 250-pound frame will probably get your attention, but I digress.) If you want to focus on a measely sample size from his time in Los Angeles, be my guest, but 17 at-bats doesn't hold a lot of water. When the game is on the line, whether that's in the sixth or the ninth, bringing in Thome is a good option to have.
Even at his age, Thome can still mash, and he can still work a walk. Those are good things.
How Does Thome Fit Into Minnesota's Plans?
This question can also be known as: whose plate appearances will Thome get? There are two ways this can go.
Option 1: Thome is largely used as a bench bat. No matter what he'll get a few starts, even in this scenario. But if the Twins go this route, it's likely that Casilla will lose the most playing time.
On a four-man bench you'd have Thome (no real defensive position), Morales (catcher), Pridie (outfield) and then one versatile backup infielder, which would be either Tolbert or Casilla. Because of his ability to play third I have to believe Tolbert would get the nod to come north, but at the same time Casilla is out of options.
If Tolbert goes, that puts a bit of a twist on Alexi and his future. Casilla's fate isn't exactly sealed at this point, but if he doesn't make the trip north then a line has been drawn underneath his name. Time is ticking, and if he doesn't make the best of the opportunities he gets, that could be the end of his tenure with the Twins. If it's Casilla who makes the trip north, then it's another frustrating turn in Rochester for Tolbert. Sure, other players will be affected, but none so highly as this.
Option 2: Thome is largely used as the designated hitter, as Jason Kubel shifts into left field. If you're trying to maximize Thome's value and mitigate the offensive question mark that is Delmon Young, then this is the way to go.
We already know who loses in this scenario: Delmon. Swapping Young for Kubel in the outfield is like swapping the flat tire on your Oldsmobile from one side to the other--it doesn't really makea difference, it's just one bad wheel for another. The difference is in the stick, where you ideally retain Kubel's offensive value while replacing Young's aggressive bat with Thome's patience and power. On the downside you give Young fewer opportunities to show that he can be the impactive offensive force he was always destined to be, but the upside is the mitigation of that high-risk variable with two fairly reliable constants.
Having Young on the bench would likely have a ripple effect on Pridie, who probably wouldn't make the trip north. Two backup outfielders on a four-man bench is a bad use of resources, and with Pridie just a day away in case anything would happen to Denard Span the Twins would likely stick with Young, Morales, Tolbert and Casilla. And that's still a better bench than we started the day with.
If the season started today, I have to believe Ron Gardenhire would give the bat to Thome. Not only does he like his veterans, but this time he actually gets a useful one!
The Questions
- Does this signing say anything about the health of Justin Morneau? No. This is something I want to nip in the bud. Justin is fine, and besides, Thome can blink, swing a bat, and walk to first base. That is his range of motion, and nowhere in those three things is "play defense" listed.
- Isn't this just another Twins-Sign-Over-The-Hill-Veteran move? No. Thome's oustanding eye at the plate and his pure, brute strength will easily make him worth his $1.5 million base salary. He's pretty one-dimensional right now, but it's a dimension the Twins didn't have this morning. He makes this team better.
- Where does this put team salary? Right around $90 million.
- Is Jim Thome actually Paul Bunyan? Yes.
- Couldn't he have signed elsewhere (like Tampa) to guarantee more playing time? Probably. But you know what this tells me? It tells me he wants to win, and he knows he has the best opportunity to do so with the Twins in the AL Central. He could be a pivotal player.
- Have you seen my baseball? I am your baseball. Think about that.
What about you? If you haven't already in the initial thread, feel free to sound off below.
0 recs |
180 comments
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Comments
nice pickup at a reasonable cost.
we still have money in the coffers for another upgrade/backup if we can get the right guy at the right contract.
by montanatwinsfan on Jan 26, 2010 7:45 PM EST reply actions
That may be true, but ...
There was so little left in the budget to begin with. This almost certainly means the team doesn’t sign Lopez or Hudson.
If we made a $5M offer to Washburn, then we have enough budget for another move
but probably not a big one. If we were truly interested in Lopez or Hudson, I don’t think $1-2M for Thome is a deal breaker.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 27, 2010 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds good to me
Hardy, Thome, Pavano, Crede, Chavez for Gomez and 16 mil sounds like a pretty damn good off season to me.
by Steven Ellingson on Jan 27, 2010 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
That would definitely improve the ballclub
even though Endy is not expected to be healthy to start the season. Two additional signings, after Thome, would be difficult from a 40 man and a 25 man roster standpoint.
Let’s look at this one by one, starting with the assumption that Tolleson is the guy on the chopping block to add Thome, and that we cannot drop Chris Province (added too late via trade). If we can drop Province, this becomes much easier.
Endy is simple, Pridie would be the logical DFA. No problem there. Crede would be a bit more difficult. If we sign him, I think we pretty much would have to drop Casilla (if not traded by that point).
This would mean Harris, Morales, Chavez and Delmon on the bench. Better depth than we’ve had in years past.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 29, 2010 7:52 AM EST up reply actions
According to Cot's
The twins payroll prior to the move was roughly 86.7, so adding in thome’s 1.5 is 88.2 million. So maybe $2 mil to sign an Endy Chavez or something.
But maybe the incentives will add up and the Twins will get cheap? who knows?
The Hochevar Principle: The future comes to all teams. Some teams wait for it. Those teams finish in last place a lot. -Joe Posnanski
with all the incentives thrown in
I guess it’s 750K, their left with about 89 mil
The Hochevar Principle: The future comes to all teams. Some teams wait for it. Those teams finish in last place a lot. -Joe Posnanski
Nope Not Happening
Thome is our 5th outfielder…..!!!!!!!
not in a literal sense… that would be Nick Punto !!!!
But the Thome singing takes care of anybody else signing to be our 5th outfielder (Including Jason Pridie -say bye-bye)
How do I tell my kid brother about Desmond Jennings? (he loves the Rays)
"He's a cross between Carl Crawford and Justin Upton with B.J. Upton's upside"
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jan 27, 2010 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
There is no way we start the season without a backup centerfielder
Our bench right now is Thome, Pridie, Harris, Tolbert/Casilla
by Steven Ellingson on Jan 27, 2010 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
there is no way
in hell we start the season with no backup catcher!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Jan 27, 2010 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Just swap
Morales/Ramos/Butera for Harris on that list since “right now” he’s the 3rd baseman, not on the bench.
by WindyCityTwinsFan on Jan 27, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
Simply ensuring...
that Thome can’t possibly homer AGAINST the Twins anymore is worth $2M/yr.
by MCA1 on Jan 26, 2010 7:56 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
+1
Works for me. Payback against the White Sox.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 26, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
during spring training
Big Jim will take Blackie yard just for fun and tell him don’t throw that pitch
+100k
Nice
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Jan 26, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Deep
Have you seen my baseball? I am your baseball.
That has so many levels, my head hurts.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 26, 2010 8:01 PM EST reply actions
thank good ness it wasn't more along the lines of
have you seen my balls? I am your balls.
that would be freaky
by montanatwinsfan on Jan 26, 2010 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Is it just me or did anyone think of 'There's Something About Mary' with that question?
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver
darn it,
I can’t believe someone stooped so low as to use testicles as humor props.
I come to this site for information and analysis not Beavis and Butthead jokes.
If you guys keep this up I might never come back here again!
by montanatwinsfan on Jan 27, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
not bad
Just hoping that doesn’t exclude us getting help at 2nd and/or 3rd.
by diehardtwinsfan on Jan 26, 2010 8:10 PM EST reply actions
Unfortunately I think it does exactly that.
Unless, Hudson or Lopez are willing to play for about 3 million a year. After those two, anybody else still out there looks way too much like what we have plenty of already.
Yah
I’m still hoping something works out with either Hudson/Lopez for all the reasons that have been listed here a million times. However, I’m not counting on it at this point though as I’ve not heard either names linked much to the Twins lately. However this Thome thing came out of nowhere.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
I think you're probably right
but I’m holding out hope that if Lopez or Hudson were available for $4-5M, we’d jump on it regardless. It may be more likely that we decide to bring Crede back for $1M instead, which would mean an interesting decision between Casilla and Tolbert, both could end up off the 25 man roster with Harris the primary backup infielder.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 27, 2010 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
Another reason this is a good signing,
judging from the excitement Thome has generated just on our site alone, I suspect this signing will put a lot of extra butts in seats this summer – and then hopefully lift a lot of butts out of seats reaching for longballs.
by montanatwinsfan on Jan 26, 2010 8:15 PM EST reply actions
HAHA
Ace Deuce- Tell me that is not the coolest nickname ever....... Okayyy maybe "Purple Moses" beats it. :)
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Jan 26, 2010 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
He is a bit fixated...
Interesting.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver
Seats in RF are going to be hard to get
Mauer, Morneau, Kubel and Thome launching balls over that short porch.
by DJL44 on Jan 26, 2010 9:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
But Mauer will put plenty in left too.
by WindyCityTwinsFan on Jan 26, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
I think Thome is a great fit for the Twins of the two cities.
I’m glad the Angels are’nt the only team signing old players to their rosters.
The 2009 Pregame Picks Winner and Iron Man of Halos Heaven.com
How about
Ruben Sierra
Rondell White
Jeff Cirillo
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
amen
I dont even know what to think about this competence
Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog
You know you like college hockey
Yes
TR really struggled in 2007.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
and
Adam Everett
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Jan 26, 2010 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Somewhere, Michael Restovich weeps softly
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
i'd like to see a combination of Options 1 and 2
Bench Thome (and reserve for pinch-hitting) when there’s a lefty starter, and move Kubel to LF and Thome to DH when they start a righty. That way, you properly utilize Delmon and Thome and their respective strengths.
Exactly
Delmon will surely start every game against lefties.
But how many will he start against righties? It’s going to be nearly impossible to keep Thome out against a righty starter. I wonder if some days against righties if we’ll occasionally see Kubel and Delmon at the corners, with Cuddles doing magic on the bench.
I'd start Thome most, say around 75% of the games against right handers
Resting him when it’s a third or fourth game in a row. Agree that Delmon starts against lefties. The question there would be DH. Kubel’s struggles against LHP continued last year, he was worse (644 OPS) than Thome (743 OPS) last year. I could see Thome and Kubel splitting DH duties against lefties as well…
by Adam Peterson on Jan 27, 2010 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
Nice point, I hadn't noticed that Thome/Kubel distinction
Thome’s got a 757 OPS over the last 3 years versus lefties—only 668 for Kubel. Thome might be DHing against LHP as much as against RHP.
I think they hire someone for that type of work
I wonder if some days against righties if we’ll occasionally see Kubel and Delmon at the corners, with Cuddles doing magic on the bench.
Cuddyer is married now.
by montanatwinsfan on Jan 27, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Jarrod Washburn next?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/01/twins-mariners-are-atop-washburns-wish-list.html
They say we are at the top of the “Wishlist”
Whats up with this spending?
The Hochevar Principle: The future comes to all teams. Some teams wait for it. Those teams finish in last place a lot. -Joe Posnanski
I say it again:
I sincerely hope Washburn doesn’t end up in a Twins uniform.
by Jesse on Jan 26, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think so
I’m pretty sure the 5 million they offered him (and that he turned down) was everything left in the budget for player payroll. This might be another side benefit of signing Thome – there is no way they can afford to sign Washburn too.
I hope you're right on that one
NO TO WASHBURN!!!!!!!
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
I think this is coming from the Washburn camp
he’s wanted to come here for a long time. Which makes it strange that he probably cost himself money by turning down our $5M offer.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 27, 2010 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
Another piece to keeping Mauer around
I think that the underlying notion behind this is to let Joe know that they are working on upgrading the entire team, which in turn makes him more comfortable with the idea of contending in a Twins uniform, it also gives us yet another player that can knock out 20+ dingers in a season. Gardenhire has a way of managing to play everyone so I think people will still get their hacks in to prove their worth to the team. Could mean another year in the minors for some of the younger guys.
Delmon?
I really wanted to see Delmon get some serious playing time, but now it looks like he’ll play 100 games, get maybe 450 PAs and he will continue to be an unknown.
The Hochevar Principle: The future comes to all teams. Some teams wait for it. Those teams finish in last place a lot. -Joe Posnanski
while he had a good couple months at the end
I still don’t think Delmon is ever going to be useful against righties – might as well platoon him with Thome as far as PA’s go.
Let Thome suck up April and May for Delmon
Let Delmon play when Thome gets hurt. Best case scenario – Delmon’s splits look awesome without April and May and they trade him at the deadline.
More PA v LHP might boost Delmon's confidence too
Sometimes players break out while platooning.
ok earlier Jesse posted a list of players we could get
the list included Johnny Damon but also stated that he would be unaffordable.
I wasn’t so sure and fangraphs has an article suggesting Damon might end up signing for $4milllion: Damon’s Value
I am not saying I want Damon in LF, but he sure would be an upgrade over Delmon.
Since we are pretty spent on Thome right now how about this question; Who would you want; Damon, Delmon, or Demon?
by montanatwinsfan on Jan 26, 2010 8:46 PM EST reply actions
call me naive
Call me a homer, gullible, or a hopeless romantic, but I believe in Delmon. I believe this is his year.
If I were looking at this independent of any other moves
i.e., signing Damon had no effect on a potential 2B/3B upgrade one way or the other, then I’d take Damon this year, easily. Plug him in at the #2 spot in between Span and Mauer, wow.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 27, 2010 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
wow xavier nady got 5 million
Making this signing look very shrewd
The Hochevar Principle: The future comes to all teams. Some teams wait for it. Those teams finish in last place a lot. -Joe Posnanski
Walks
At this point in his career, this could mean more than HR’s
Crede
Crede is the only major league signing we’ll make the rest of the offseason. Similar deal to last season, Punto starts at 2B, unless Casilla has a great spring. We don’t have the money for Hudson or Lopez, but Crede will come cheap.
Then we’ll take a flier on Baldelli, Chavez, etc. in ST on a minor league deal. Yankees said today they want to offer Baldelli a minor league deal too, so he might be more of a long shot to accept. Knowing the Twins front office, we should all understand that Crede will be signed, and nobody else will. Fine by me, we’ll have tons of offensive pop, and Crede at 3B, Hardy at SS, and Punto at 2B gives us our best overall infield range in years.
I was thinking about Crede
and I thinking signing him makes less sense now that we’ve signed Thome. With him taking up a bench spot, and a catcher and outfielder taking up the others, that leaves one spot for a backup infielder: Casilla or Tolbert. If we sign Crede, that means that Harris is the backup infielder, we waive Casilla, and Tolbert starts out the year in AAA. That feels a bit thin to me, given Crede will probably be hurt a bit this year.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 27, 2010 9:02 AM EST up reply actions
Good point
Crede missed a ton of games without going on the DL last year – that leaves the Twins with no backup infielder on games he can’t play (well, unless they are going to retry the Great Cuddyer Infield Experiment). If they are going to sign another infielder, he needs to be durable.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
I love this move...
…I see Thome starting the season as a once a week DH and pinch hitter. Then as the season moves on, someone will get banged up. Whether it is Young, Cuddyer or Morneau, Thome fills the spot. He moves into DH, Kubel moves into right or left field replacing the injured player. If it is Morneau that needs a break, Cuddyer comes into 1B with Kubel going to right. Thome gets about 6-9 at bats a week first 5-6 weeks of the season, then gets a lot of playing time.
This makes a lot of sense
I was thinking it would go just the opposite, with Thome taking many of Delmon’s at bats early in the season, when Delmon typically has struggled.
Then again, this simply gives Gardy options to play the hot hand(s).
by Adam Peterson on Jan 27, 2010 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
Who gets DFAed?
That’s the only downside. Somebody has to go to make room for him.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Yes
Loek Van Mill
Esterlin De Los Santos
Maybe Steven Tolleson
Not Tolbert. You’re talking about a guy who was one of the best hitters on the team in September and a solid defender. You can’t get rid of him after that.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Tolbert is easily the worst guy on the 25 man
he’s gone. Or should be gone.
Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog
You know you like college hockey
But not the 40 man
It’s the 40 man that I care about. And I was not aware of the rule that you can’t DFA a guy you just added.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
The more I think about it, it has to be Tolleson
We have a glut of middling second basemen. Besides Punto, Casilla and Tolbert, there’s Dinklemn and Singelton. If he passes through waivers, we get to keep him at least for one more year.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Ditto
I’d also say Tolleson. If he can’t make the ballclub now with a big void at 2B they need to cut him loose.
Or a trade
They might be waiting to finalize the deal until they find a home for Casilla and Perkins.
nah I say Tolbert is on
he can be the 5th Outfielder!!!!!
and also play SS, 2B, 3B on a rare occasion the SUPER utility ….
How do I tell my kid brother about Desmond Jennings? (he loves the Rays)
"He's a cross between Carl Crawford and Justin Upton with B.J. Upton's upside"
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jan 27, 2010 2:11 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
Tolbert is too valuable to the team. And he has an option. Tolleson is the extra player on the 40 man.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
great question
I would guess maybe Luke Hughes…
Yet another reason why putting De Santos on the 40 man was a questionable move
by clutterheart on Jan 26, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
If we can drop Province
he’d be the guy for me. I know we can’t waive someone who was added to the 40 man in November in order to protect from the Rule 5, but Province was acquired in the Bonser trade.
If not him, my choice would be Tolleson. More likely, we’re making a big push to move Casilla and/or Perkins.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 27, 2010 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
We got Province to fill the long/mop-up role. It would be odd to give up on that plan.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
But the long / mop-up role would be the easiest to fill on the ballclub
We have the following bullpen arms on the 40 man. Pick seven:
Nathan, Guerrier, Crain, Mijares, Rauch, Condrey. Six slam dunks to make the active roster, unless we drop Crain to save money.
That leaves Neshek, Perkins, Duensing, Liriano, Swarzak and Manship as possibilities for the final bullpen spot. Province is a highly redundant part, IMO.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 29, 2010 7:59 AM EST up reply actions
+1 Adam
I agree 100% at this juncture we should be pushing hard to move 1 or 2 of Casilla/ Perkins/ Harris/ Tolbert…..
preferably Casilla for me….
How do I tell my kid brother about Desmond Jennings? (he loves the Rays)
"He's a cross between Carl Crawford and Justin Upton with B.J. Upton's upside"
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jan 27, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Casilla and Perkins
Casilla has probably the most upside of those two. Thus, the Twins should get a pretty good haul in return for those two. Looking at Washington and seeing they also want to add a young pitcher, I was wondering if the Twins might let Hudson sign with Washington, then trade Casilla and Perkins to Washington for Hudson…just a thought.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Jan 27, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
I really don't think Casilla has more upside that Perkins
I think for either of them, being league average would be doing better than expected, but it’s more likely for Perkins.
you just can’t have much upside when you don’t hit for power, walk, or play defense well.
He certainly could shore up his defense some, and hit for a high enough batting average to make up for his downfalls and be about league average. I just don’t find it that likely, given his trackrecord. Perkins has shown much more at the major league level than he has.
by Steven Ellingson on Jan 27, 2010 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
I think he meant Casilla has more upside than Tolbert
Nick has a thing about roster space in today’s blog. He speculates that the Twins will need to get rid of a pitcher and probably an infielder as well. They are shopping Perkins and Casilla. With the need for one, maybe two roster spots (if they sign another infielder), I’d be surprised if both Casilla and Perkins are in spring training with the Twins. I wouldn’t be surprised if both are wearing different uniforms this spring.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
correct
I meant that Casilla had more upside than Tolbert…sorry about the miscommunication there.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Jan 28, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
great
they picked him up at a very reasonable price. And at this stage of his career, I would think we have him as one of the better veteran role players out there.
Very excited about this. Just dont negate it with picking up washburn
by guinness junky on Jan 26, 2010 10:50 PM EST reply actions
I think this eliminates all hope for Hudson. I think there is still a small window for Lopez. I know ppl dont agree, but Im not totally against Orlando Cabrera… Just sayin. But if not a 2B, then Im hoping for either Crede or Mora. I do like Endy Chavez as a bench option. And ABSOLUTELY NOT in regards to Washburn. Duensing is just as good, if not better at this point.
I just keep thinking about it...
and those games where Brendan friggin’ Harris was the DH, well…Thome could be there instead. As far as hitting goes, Thome>Harris. So, yay. Plus, Sox fans are not happy which makes me quite pleased.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver
This lineup is going to be insane versus RHP
Projections v. RHP (modified from CHONE)
Span: .298/.376/.416
Mauer: .331/.417/.520
Morneau:.289/.373/.520
Kubel: .283/.354/.502
Thome: .238/.367/.460
Average OPS of these 5 v RHP: 861
If the Twins sign
Washburn, that definitely will signal a trade. The Twins already have to unload one man from the 40 man. Acquiring Washburn would mean that the Twins would have to unload yet another. The Twins would never unload two players who they put on their 40 man roster, unless it was in a trade.
If Washburn is acquired, then we can be sure that Perkins + Casilla will be on their way out of Minny. Possibly Perkins + Casilla + another 40 man, in order to upgrade at a position of need: 2B – Callaspo, 3B – Lowell.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Of course
Trading Perkins, Casilla, and other for Callaspo or Lowell is just pure speculation. I have heard nothing involving Twins interest in Callaspo or Lowell….though Lowell would make sense since Boston is willing to pay his entire contract and adding Washbum would certainly entail a trade.
But yet, I did hear something from Glen Perkins hair dresser that Perkins + other douche bags will be traded to Kansas City for Callaspo. My source is legit and I live in Winona which is half way between Kansas City and Canada, so you should really trust me on this. But then again, I heard from Casilla’s manicurist that he and Perkins were being dealt to Cleveland for Asdrubal Cabrera…and as we all know, Winona is half way between Cleveland and Bismark (I think).
Just remember folks, you heard it hear first!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Jan 26, 2010 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Who knew
that 3B Russel Branyan, at one time, was in the Twins system?
8/9/07 Acquired nonroster 3B Russell Branyan from the Indians for cash.
I think I remember reading this at the time, but I had totally forgotten about this event. Man, has he come a long ways since that time!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Wrong wrong
Think it was the Phillies…..
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Russell-Branyan/78576299073?v=info
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
Yeah. He was never in th Twins system
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Anyone consider
that maybe signing Thome could lead to a 3rd option. What if the Twins real consider playing Cuddy at 3B. Kubel and Young in the OF. Defensively I don’t think they could pull it off often. But could you imagine that lineup?
well, if Young was in RF
their outfield defense would probably improve
Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog
You know you like college hockey
Kubel and Young starting in the OF
makes me wonder about the OF defense… Is Kubel getting some of that PEL to increase his speed? Is Young getting some so he doesn’t look like bambi running on ice every time a ball is hit to him?
Any given game
We’re going to see two of Delmon, Kubel and Cuddyer in LF and RF. Poor range there, but the Thome signing had no effect one way or the other, as Delmon was slated for a full time role in LF anyway.
OF defense concerns me, but hopefully the infield defense and offense will make up for it.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 29, 2010 8:02 AM EST up reply actions
No, I couldn't see it
Cuddyer is not going to play 3B ever again.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 27, 2010 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Why the F not?
We won’t be in the dome anymore, speed in the OF isn’t AS important as it used to be. There’s a lot of other teams who are in much worse shape defensively in the OF than the Twins if they had Young/Span/Kubel.
so lets
make the best defensive infield so much worse by getting Cuddyer out of the outfield? That makes no sense…Cuddyer is a terrible 3B! Furthermore, Cuddyer did not start hitting until he was moved to RF because of all of his defensive incapabilities at 3B. When moved to RF, Cuddyer improved his defense and improved his offense dramatically.
I will be fine with Punto at 2B and Crede at 3B or Punto at 3B and Hudson at 2B. We do not have to shift around a bunch of players now that they have proved themselves and because we hope for a minor increase in infield production.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Jan 27, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Cuddy hasn't played third for years
He was never very good there, and he’ll be much worse with all the rust that’s accumulated on him. I’d rather play Harris there than Cuddy, all things considered.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
No,
not many teams would be worse than that.
It’s not an option because it’s already been tried and Cuddyer was horrible at third base. It’s that simple. Dome or not, speed…these things aren’t reasons to shift an established player out of his established position into one where he already proved that he couldn’t cope.
Honestly, this whole “try Cuddyer at third base” thing needs to stop. This isn’t a videogame.
Hey
if a 40 year old Brett Favre could lead the Vikings to the Championship game….then does it not follow that a 39 year old Thome could lead the Twins to a World Series?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
and Brett
lead his team to victories over his former team!!! Thome leads the Twins to a 18-0 winning streak vs the Chicago White Sox….oh how I love to dream!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Jan 27, 2010 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
Great
That’s all we need, to choke in extra innings after Thome hits into a clutch double play.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Boo.
For several reasons, but just boo.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver
Poor timing
The scars haven’t healed yet.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 27, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
I saw this on SSS and just had to post it here
There’s an old Yiddish saying that I find it helpful to remember about at times like these. It goes like this:
YOU FUCKING LET JIM THOME GO TO THE FUCKING TWINS FOR $1.5 FUCKING MILLION FUCKING FUCKS SO YOU COULD PLAY FUCKING FUCK FUCK FUCK AT D FUCKING H FUCKING FUCK FUCK?
.
Sorry about the language and all Jesse, but it is too hilarious not to post!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
LOL
what is SSS
south side Suckitude?
How do I tell my kid brother about Desmond Jennings? (he loves the Rays)
"He's a cross between Carl Crawford and Justin Upton with B.J. Upton's upside"
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jan 27, 2010 2:12 AM EST up reply actions
Awesome.
I may hate their team, but those guys are awesome.
On a scale from Matthew LeCroy to Kirby Puckett, I'm about a Luis Rivas.
Reminds me of a line by Steve Correl in "Little Miss Sunshine"
After the kid who hasn’t spoken for two months because he’s preparing for his Air Force test realizes he’s color blind and thus, can’t fly air planes. After the kid let’s out a stream of F bombs the likes of which has never before been captured on film:
“So glad you’re talking again.”
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I believe the last two players with 2,000+ hits in the Twins' organization were
Mark Grudzielanek and Ruben Sierra.
Best Option
Against right-handed starters:
—Thome DH
—Kubel LF
—Young off the bench (available to PH against left-handed relievers)
Against left-handed starters:
—Kubel DH
—Young LF
—Thome off the bench (available to PH against right-handed relievers)
Once in a while (every fifth day; days games after night games, etc.)
—Mauer DH
—Kubel or Young LF, depending on starter
—Thome off the bench
Thome's effect on the 25-man roster
I think the signing of Thome makes it much more likely that the Twins go north with only 11 pitchers. Thome can’t play in the field and he will need to pinch-run for in every game situation. To have a backup catcher and only two other guys just doesn’t make sense.
I think the Twins can chance it and go without a true backup outfielder. I think Tolbert would be capable to fill in for Span if Denard is injured, but not disabled.
It is certain that Thome can help as a pinch-hitter. After all, the guys who would be pinch hit for would include RH hitters (Valencia if he makes it, Harris, Young) and switch hitters (Tolbert, Casilla, Punto). There isn’t a better available pinch hitter against a RH pitcher than Thome.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Jan 27, 2010 12:01 PM EST reply actions
Too many pitchers to go with 11
Who doesn’t make the cut? These 8 guys are all locks:
Pavano, Baker, Slowey, Blackburn
Nathan, Rauch, Guerrier, Crain
Then it’s pick 3 from this list:
Neshek, Mijares, Liriano, Duensing, Perkins, Condrey
They might have to leave Neshek, Duensing and Mijares in AAA to start the season if they want to go with 11 pitchers. They can’t option Liriano, Perkins or Condrey.
Why not Cuddyer to 3rd?
Maybe I’m not Mr. Current events, I’m getting back in now that the vikings tradgedy has happened once again, but I look up and see Thome is on the Twins.
Now I like the move, but I don’t like the idea of Kubel getting less at bats. He’s too good with too much upside to be splitting time with old man Thome.
My question is why not bring Cuddy back to 3B, his original position when he came up to the majors? We’re weak at the position, unless this Valencia guy is the real deal, but this way you can keep Cuddy, Thome, and Kubel in the lineup more consistently. I suggested they do this last year when they were rotating Gomez/Span/Young/Cuddy in the OF. Someone please explain why we don’t move Cuddy back to 3rd?
There would not be a worse
defensive line-up in the majors!
Good offensively though, for sure.
by WindyCityTwinsFan on Jan 27, 2010 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Kubel's not an asset against LHP, so he'll lose some starts there
But don’t worry, he won’t be sitting against RHP. Delmon stands to lose the most ABs, mainly against righty starters.
Because Gardy says so
Seriously, that’s pretty much the entire reason. Supposedly Cuddyer was uncomfortable at third because he’s deaf in his left ear, and his defensive struggles caused him to fail to hit, and it was all a horrible mess. Anyway it appears that Gardy no longer considers Cuddyer an infielder (save for first base), and I haven’t seen any indication that that’s changing.
Cuddyer was also a second baseman at one point – he was the one who was going to finally displace Luis Rivas.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Did we release Punto yet?
Please tell me we did…
Seriously?
He hit .201 in 2008!!!
God I hope we get anyone else.
He also has better on-base skills than any other infielder not named Morneau.
The glove is fine at second, and his weak bat isn’t as exposed if he does play second base. He’s best used as a super-utility guy, but he won’t kill anyone at second base, either. As far as talent and skills go, you could do worse than LNP.
Wrong
Punto hit .284 in 2008.
2005 – .239/.301/.335
2006 – .290/.352/.373
2007 – .210/.291/.271
2008 – .284/.344/.382
2009 – .228/.337/.284
Punto has never hit .201 before, and the only time he has come close to that was in 2007, which was three years ago.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Jan 27, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
He came really close last year
He was below .200 for most of the year. Only a hot September saved him.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
.201
“The Mendoza Punto line”
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 27, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
2007 was a BAD year
in fact if Punto earned a big league paycheck that year it was damn near criminal.
2009 was damn near as bad. Good thing we didn’t actually pay him anything much over the minimum salary.
by montanatwinsfan on Jan 27, 2010 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, like the two-year, $8.5 million contract he signed after 2008
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I was going to say at least thrid base in Gardy's heart
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Take another sip of Kool Aid Jesse
Come June, when he’s flirting with the Mendozza line and pressing in the field and on the bases to compensate, that Kool Aid will taste awful bitter my friend.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I'll stand by it!
Let’s set some hard and fast rules, and the loser buys the winner a beer (the next time I’m in the country). How about this…
Cmath wins if:
Punto is hitting below .210 the morning of June 15 OR he’s started fewer than half of games going back to May 15.
Jesse wins if:
Punto is hitting .210 or better AND has started more than half of the games going back to May 15.
All bets are off it:
Punto is injured between May 1 and June 15.
Irony
Considering Punto is considered the ultimate “effort” guy…but I think he will have a year similar to 2008, batting average closer to .300 than .200. In 2008, Punto was entering free agency after the season, this year he’s playing for the option. Just a feeling, I hope I’m right.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 29, 2010 8:06 AM EST up reply actions
Another thing
The AL central has a lot of really good RHP, “Justin Verlander, Jake Peavy, Zack Greinke, Rick Porcello, Gavin Floyd and Max Scherzer, just to name a few.” (Nick’s Twins Blog pointed this out today: http://www.nickstwinsblog.com/)
Not only are the Twins going to field a great lineup against these guys when they face them, but it’s also likely that teams will avoid pitching them against the Twins altogether in favor of LHP—any LHP they can dig up—since they’ll want to maximine the impact of their starters.
Remember how it took almost all season for the Twins to finally see Greinke and how teams would pull up some no-name AAA lefty against the them instead of the regularly scheduled starter? That effect should double now that they added Thome, and the overall (positive) result for the Twins is that they’ll see a lower overal quality of opposing pitcher.
I would not want to be right handed and face these 7 guys
Span
Hardy
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddyer
Kubel
Thome
by Steven Ellingson on Jan 27, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that we've got a killer lineup against RHP
but a desire to pitch lefties against the Twins had nothing to do with our luck to avoid Greinke most of the season. Just worked out that way due to luck. There is no way the Royals would skip Greinke to throw an extra lefty against the Twins.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 29, 2010 8:07 AM EST up reply actions
Career vs. White Sox
Mark Buehrle:
4-20, 1 2B, 2 HR, 9 RBI, 2 BB, 10 K, 2 GIDP
Bartolo Colon (FA):
0-3, 2 K
John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Daniel Hudson, Bobby Jenks:
N/A
Jake Peavy:
0-2, 1 BB, 1 K
Career vs. Indians
Fausto Carmona:
4-18, 1 2B, 1 RBI, 4 BB, 2 K, 2 GIDP
Rafael Perez:
1-16, 1 RBI, 1 BB, 7 K, 1 GIDP
Jeremy Sowers:
7-16, 1 2B, 3 HR, 8 RBI, 4 BB, 5 K
Jake Westbrook:
10-26, 1 2B, 3 HR, 10 RBI, 3 BB, 6 K, 1 GIDP
Kerry Wood:
0-4, 1 BB, 3 K
Career vs. Tigers
Jeremy Bonderman:
6-21, 1 2B, 3 HR, 6 RBI, 3 BB, 7 K
Armando Galarraga:
1-7, 2 BB, 2 K
Zach Miner:
1-12, 4 BB, 1 K
Ryan Perry:
0-1
Rick Porcello (he’s 21 years old):
0-3, 1 RBI, 1 K
Nate Robertson:
9-23, 3 2B, 2 HR, 3 RBI, 3 BB, 7 K, 1 GIDP
Bobby Seay:
2-9, 1 2B, 1 RBI, 3 BB, 6 K
Justin Verlander:
10-41, 7 HR, 11 RBI, 10 BB, 10 K
Jarrod Washburn (FA):
6-28, 1 2B, 2 HR, 5 RBI, 12 K
Dontrelle Willis:
4-27, 1 2B, 2 RBI, 4 BB, 12 K
Joel Zumaya:
1-6, 1 BB, 3 K
Career vs. Royals
Brian Bannister:
8-24, 2 2B, 3 HR, 4 RBI, 2 BB, 8 K
Kyle Davies:
4-12, 2 2B, 1 HR, 1 RBI, 5 BB, 3 K
Zack Greinke:
7-29, 2 HR, 4 RBI, 4 BB, 10 K, 2 GIDP
Luke Hochevar, Noel Arguelles:
N/A
Gil Meche:
10-33, 1 2B, 1 HR, 6 RBI, 4 BB, 7 K, 1 GIDP
Joakim Soria:
1-6, 1 K
Those really don't matter that much
until you add them all together
Casilla and Thome
If Casilla is still around during spring training, it looks like he will have to have a new number. There is a new #25 coming to Minnesota Alexi, and he has a better bat than you!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Roster Moves
How long untill the Twins have to move someone off the rosters?
End of the weekend.
Thome completes his physical this weekend, which will make the signing official. A move will probably have to happen Monday.
Or a trade?
That may be to much to ask for. But I can hope.
That's what I'm hoping for.
The timing of his physical is a little curious, and of course it’s always better to get something of value than try to pass someone through waivers and lose them for nothing.
When you DFA a guy
Don’t you have 72 hours to trade or release him? My guess is, Thome’s physical was scheduled for 72 hours after the announcement.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Then 72 hrs after the physical?
Not that it really matters, but then wouldn’t it be 72 hours after the signing becomes “official” with the physical. I just hope the FO has something in the works or they have enough time to get a deal done.
This will be an interesting move. It might give us a good indication about what will happen the rest of the offseason.
Yep
Signing isn’t official until the physical has been completed. I’m sure we’re still trying to make a trade, but opening up a roster spot through a trade may be difficult because so many teams are in a similar situation, no space on the 40 man. We’ll announce a DFA around Monday, then the clock will start ticking. I thought for DFA, it was around 10 days, not 72 hours though.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 29, 2010 8:10 AM EST up reply actions

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