Twins Trade Rumors: J.J. Hardy to the Orioles to be announced at 11am
by Jesse on Dec 9, 2010 10:22 AM EST
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Update: It's pretty much official.
According to multiple Twitter updates, the Hardy-to-Baltimore trade will be announced at 11am this morning.
Of course, not everyone is upset about this deal. Of course, he's from Hockey Wilderness, so we shouldn't be too hard on him.
Twins, Orioles trade currently pending medicals.
Going to Baltimore: J.J. Hardy, Brendan Harris (about $7.5 to $8 million in contracts, both expiring after 2011)
Going to Minnesota: Brett Jacobsen, Jim Hoey (warm bodies)
Jacobsen, 24 last month, was a 4th round pick by the Tigers in 2008. While he throws a mid-90s fastball and has struck out 8.3 batters per nine in 166 minor league innings, he's never thrown a pitch above high-A ball. He'll likely get his first taste of double-A this year.
Hoey, meanwhile, has at least pitched in the majors although not since 2007. In 34.1 MLB innings he's struck out 24, walked 23 and surrendered 39 hits. The good news is that, while he turns 28 at the end of this month, his strikeout rates in minors have been impressive. In spite of missing all of 2008 with a shoulder injury, he's averaged double digit K/9 rates since 2006.
While the deal is not yet completed, right now this move looks highly suspect, and I think we can glean a few things from what we already know:
- Either the Twins under-value Hardy, the baseball market under-values Hardy, or we over-value Hardy.
- While the Twins are shipping off somewhere between $7.5 and $8 million in payroll for 2011, it doesn't seem that this move has anything to do with payroll. Minnesota is heavily involved with Carl Pavano, will be tendering Matt Capps a contract, is going after Jim Thome, and will (in due course) be signing Tsuyoshi Nishioka. Don't forget passing interest in: Octavio Dotel, Rich Harden, Brandon Webb. If the Twins were simply looking to ditch payroll, it could have been done in more obvious and more tactical places. Additionally, you traditionally don't clear necessary payroll until necessary--the Twins haven't signed any of those listed targets yet. If one or more of them fall through, the Twins would have made their team worse while clearing payroll for nothing.
- Which leads me to believe that there's more to this than meets the eye. We all know there's information that most of us just aren't privy to. My guesses: either there's a reason the Twins are so unhappy with Hardy (beyond "wanting to get faster" and being unhappy with how he rehabbed), or there's something else fairly significant that they want to do.
This thing is still technically up in the air, so check back as we update with the latest details. And if you're still awake with me right now...good for you.
(Full disclosure: it's 8:30 in the morning where I am...but I'm still just as hardcore as you!)
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I'm up with you
Not even 1 am here on the Pacific coast.
This move makes no sense. But given that Twins track record suggests they don’t make nonsensical moves, I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as you’ve outlined here.
3:30 here
I dont understand this move i mean i dont see how it can even be part of something bigger. Its not that i hate Cassila starting because he can play on fairly high level but thats only some of the time and it would have been nice to at least see how Nishioka plays here. And also if we have injuries we have no backup unless we bring Punto make which is not my favorite backup. Tolber on the bench all year is not what i wanted to see. I would love to have Cassila on the bench with Hardy starting. I never wanted to trade Hardy of course unless the “right” trade came along but this is not even close to it.
As of 12/9/10
We are officially balls in with Alexi Casilla and a Japanese infielder who’s never played an inning in the MLB (and who isn’t even signed yet).
Hardy was a 2.4 WAR player last year
Alexi Casilla’s career best was 1.1 WAR
Hudson was a 3.1 WAR player last year
Nishioka will be a ???? next year
The difference between the infield salary last year and next year will be something like 4 million (spreading Nishioka’s post over presumably a 3 yr deal).
So Bill Smith probably has to make up about 2-4 WAR with the $4MM he saved with his new infield or he’s fucked up (again).
For example, if he now signs Pavano for 8MM per and Pavano replicates his 2009 or 2010 season (3.7 and 3.2 WAR respectively) he can MAYBE break even if Casilla plays over his head and we get a best-case scenario out of Nishioka.
That’s a lot of additional risk for it seems little chance of reward. And that doesn’t even take into account the additional risk of a longterm commitment to a 34 yr old pitcher or the loss of the compensation picks that would’ve been received if he signed elsewhere.
The one bright side is that resigning Pavano (or some other starting pitcher) would open up the Twins to package a trade of an outfielder and a starting pitcher for something they can actually use (ex. a shortstop like JJ HARDY).
Goddammit Bill
Is this our version of the White Sox not re-signing Thome?
Is this just a game between Reinsdorf & the Pohlad kids to trade AL Central titles every other year?
I think this is worse than what the Sox did with Thome
Thome is aging and he can’t play a position. He can’t even play every day anymore. I mean, I thought they were stupid, but I’d say this is much worse than what they did.
Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD
The difference is, the Sox didn't get anybody decent to replace Thome
At least we can say that Hardy’s replacements don’t suck. I mean, when we look at the shortstops we’ve had since Gagne, most of them have sucked, aside from Guzman (for a couple of years, Bartlett, and Hardy). We started seasons with Castro and Punto as starters. Casilla is not as good as Hardy, but I don’t think he will suck. I think he will be decent—somewhere between replacement level and average. Thome’s replacements just sucked.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I think it is all about the Money!
I like Hardy, but no more then I liked both Orlando’s and Bartlett. The Twins must be banking on Nishioka. I still fear them resigning Punto too. I still wounder why we can’t hold onto Middle Infielders? Is it Gardy being to tuff on them (no one plays go enogh for him) I think we’ll see Pav and Big Jimmers back, thank to the money used from Hardy. 3mil to Nishioka 2.5mil to Big Jimmers. Oh ah, and we got rid of Harris salary. What bothers me is we still have no young SS in the minors that looks like a potential starter. This deal had to be about the money. A starting SS for two minor league pitchers does not make sence!!!!
#3
While I initially thought it was about the money (still might be) I wonder if your #3 reason might be on to something.
Initial projections on those 2 pitchers aren’t all that encouraging. A 24 year old A pitcher and a 28 year old AAA pitcher seems to indicate they are pretty old already for where they are at plus neither is in the Orioles Top 20 prospects.
Supposedly 5-6 teams were interested in Hardy so if this is the “best” offer out there do you think that maybe all of those other teams don’t value Hardy all that much either? Which maybe points to the fact that there’s some other issue at hand and that fans are over valuing him.
Visit my Dakota County Real Estate blog - http://www.dakotacountyproperties.com
If Hardy has little value?
Why is his Abitration Value about 5mil? Do you think Punto will get 5mil as a comparisons. I guess starting SS start at 5mil same with 2bman. For some reason the Twins can’t pay 5mil for SS or 2bman. Don’t most top teams have strong SS-2b Combo’s? Jeter-Cano. I guess Nishioka cost less and we’ll have for 3yrs. Now how’bt a top 2bman to go along with him, or are we going cheep at 2b too? Oh and cheep at 3b. Next year we unload Kubel,Cuddyer, maybe Nathen,Baker, Blackburn etc. Trying to balance a lower budget team is tough!
by b1 on Dec 9, 2010 7:15 AM EST up reply actions
when forced to do a trade
Bill Smith doesn’t seem to get much… not sure if it’s value or if it is that everyone knows that Smith isn’t nearly as shrewd as his predecessor.
by diehardtwinsfan on Dec 9, 2010 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
But he wasn't forced to do this trade.
They just put themselves in a position where everyone knew Hardy was available. When you do that, you’re not going to get much back.
Disagree
If you are negotiating with just 1 party that might be the case but even if there are only 2 other teams that are interested in Hardy they have to offer something better than the other team.
I’m a Realtor and see this in negotiations all the time. If the buyer is the only one making an offer they can make their offer below the market value in hopes that the seller is desperate to get out of the deal. But if their are multiple offers on a home it immediately changes the dynamic and the buyers almost always will go to the full value that they place on the home in order to try and be selected and gain the benefit of the product they are trying to acquire.
Visit my Dakota County Real Estate blog - http://www.dakotacountyproperties.com
Something just doesn't add up to me yet
The Twins FO has to know more than we do. I just hope they are willing to disclose some of that in their press conference announcing this “deal”
by twinscrazy_german on Dec 9, 2010 7:16 AM EST reply actions
I dont get it
Didnt the bartlet trade show the FO that finding a SS is hard? Does Smith not learn from his mistakes?
by clutterheart on Dec 9, 2010 7:47 AM EST via mobile reply actions
This is....beyond any understanding
UNLESS it’s about money. Even then, you would think they could get a better prospect, but it has to be about money. Has to be. What else could it possibly be?
Even if they hate Hardy with the heat of 10,000 suns, you wouldn’t do this.
I say SHONDA you say WOLVES" SHONDA! WOLVES!
Yeah, it's a pure salary dump.
These are non-prospects. And it’s a really stupid salary dump. Going cheap at a position where you can afford it least.
Just terrible
I can’t figure it out. One of the Twins’ persistent problems prior to 2010 was that, while they had a number of stars, they often got into trouble by giving way too many plate appearances to replacement level and below players. They finally seemed to get it last year, and went out and got a middle infield that would save them from that problem.
A year later…and here we are again.
I say SHONDA you say WOLVES" SHONDA! WOLVES!
by Eric in Madison on Dec 9, 2010 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
Hardy for Harris... that's the first thing that popped into my head
Orioles get Hardy if they’ll take Harris too.
Yep
So we off an extra million and a half. Of course, that wouldn’t be necessary if the FO hadn’t screwed up the Harris signing in the first place.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
If it's even that much $
LEN III is reporting we are also sending money their way.
Right
Andy is calling in favors
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
on top of what we paid Harris, the LNP contract as a joke too!
by b1 on Dec 9, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
That return is even worse than I thought.
I’m speechless. I’m going to be upset about this for a while.
Stupid
Utterly, unforgivably stupid.
And stupid can’t be fixed. Even if there’s an ‘issue’ about Hardy they don’t like, you don’t sell for peanuts without a backup plan.
Pathetic. I don’t want to hear anyone defend this FO again if this goes through.
maybe this is a write off year.
Then they can get rid of a bunch of salary at the end of 2011 and reload for another run. Not that the Hardy deal has anything to do with that, but I just think that is maybe what they are thinking.
Then why make a run at Pavano?
Why bid on a Japanese player?
Why not salary dump real problems like Kubel?
No, by money, this makes NO sense, because you’re going to end up paying MORE to replace him in the long term.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 9, 2010 9:09 AM EST up reply actions
Salary dump?
They didn’t have to pick up Kubel’s option. If they were seriously looking to rebuild and shed salary they should start with Joe Nathan, not JJ Hardy.
They are stuck with Nathan, he will be getting 11.5 mil this year and nobody is going to take that off our hands.
They could actually get something out of a trade with Hardy. They are not locked into that. Nathan money is guaranteed.
yoshi fits with gardy's vision
hardy doesn’t. he was never meant to come back for another year.
remember, for 8/9 seasons, gardy has been a small-ball coach. last year was an aberration.
and you can put it on the boaaaaaard YES, HELL YES
That can't be true can it?
They can’t possibly be thinking of punting a season under these circumstances.
If that’s true, it’s about the biggest indictment of the FO I can imagine.
I say SHONDA you say WOLVES" SHONDA! WOLVES!
by Eric in Madison on Dec 9, 2010 9:09 AM EST up reply actions
Like I said, if this is a punt, it's a shank.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 9, 2010 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
Jon Rauch takes offense to being associated with that trade through the word "shank"
This was a triumph
I'm making a note here - huge success
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Dec 9, 2010 9:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just because of what Detroit and Chicago are able to do this year. I can see the FO thinking we have a better chance
of being able to reload and fight after we can get rid of the deadweight salaries we have to keep this year.
Detroit for sure has a lot of money to spend this off season, so I expect them to do more. Chicago has already done enough. We weren’t going to be able to get that much help this winter to significantly improve, so maybe they are looking a year + down the road.
I don’t agree with it, but that is the only thing that makes any sense to me.
umm...no
Then you don’t bid on Pavstache.
You don’t bid on Nishi
There’s nothing in this offseason that says “reload” in what they’ve done to this point. It’s just dumb. The only thing I’ve seen that makes sense is Gardy doesn’t like shortstops with big arms who can play in the hole. He wants “scrappers.”
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 9, 2010 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
Well, we don't know what they are bidding for Pavano. And I don't think they will overpay for Nishi.
I may be wrong, but nothing they are doing makes me think they are thinking about winning it all this year either.
I hope Nishi doesnt sign now
just to slap the FO in the face
by eau claire twins fan on Dec 9, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
I thought this team was past salary dumps. Guess not.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I love Gardy's comments regarding Alexi as our SS yesterday:
He did speak with Twin Cities beat writers during a conference call, during which he spoke highly of Alexi Casilla as a shortstop.
“I have always said, for me, I think he moved really well at shortstop,” Gardenhire said, “I think he’s very acrobatic. I think he’s very athletic, he can go get the ball and throw from all kinds of angles. I think he’s comfortable coming in and getting the ball rather than waiting for it.”
Seems like he was taking a jab at Hardy with that last sentence. Is it just me or does Gardenhire have a 2nd grade mentality when describing player qualities?
Great
The ability to play deep and wait for the ball is what makes Hardy an excellent defensive shortstop. Guys who play shallow so they can get the rollers in the infield (not to name names, but Derek Jeter is one) end up letting lots of base hits get by them.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
No Gardy
Casilla isn’t comfortable coming in and getting it.
He knows he HAS to try to charge the ball at short because his sub-standard arm means he can’t make the throw if he’s caught in the hole.
facepalms
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 9, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
I wondered if it was something like this
Gardy has such strong views about what makes an ideal shortstop. I guess Hardy didn’t pass the test.
This move also opens up a roster spot for the return of Nick Punto.
Quick Cleveland, sign Punto before the Twins can!
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
With a nod to the Sports Guy
I propose that from here forward, Brendan Harris be referred to exclusively as “Brendan Harris’ Expiring Contract”.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
From MLBTradeRumors:
7:38am: The deal won’t be official until after the Rule 5 draft, tweets MLB.com’s Brittany Ghiroli, perhaps because the Orioles’ fourth overall pick could be involved.
I’m a little confused, how would the 4th overall pick be affected by the Rule 5 draft? If this is true and we are getting their 4th pick, it makes the deal a bit more palatable.
Really?
We’re trading our starting shortstop for guys who weren’t protected in the Rule 5 Draft? Really?
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Brendan Harris also wasn't protected
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
She means the 4th pick in the Rule V
Not the amateur draft. Teams can’t trade picks in the MLB.
That makes sense then
I was reading as we got their 4th pick in the amateur draft (since they have the 4th pick). Wasn’t aware you could not trade draft picks.
The Orioles ended up selecting Adrian Rosario from the Brewers in the Rule 5 draft fyi.
If this isn't part of a much, much bigger deal, than
I am livid. Absolutely livid. And nothing in the Twins past suggests that it is part of a bigger move. I’ve defended Gardy all along, but this is ridiculous. We know Bill Smith has liked Hardy…he wanted him extremely badly last year.
and now this from MLBTradeRumors:
9:00am: Orioles president Andy MacPhail told Ghiroli and other reporters he hopes to finalize the deal today and they’re just working out minor details (Twitter link). Connolly tweets that the teams are waiting for approval from the commissioner’s office on an exchange of money. Twins GM Bill Smith tells Kelsie Smith to expect an announcement at 11am central time.
Wonder if the Twins are also throwing money in……uggggghhh
Yes they are
santana trade update
Can someone post an updated Santana trade tally? All that’s left are a few minor league pitchers, right?
What's left?
Deolis Guerra
Brett Jacobson a
and Hooey (intentional misspelling)
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
To be fair
Yes, we have no players left, but we also have (or spent) all the money saved by not paying Santana.
by b1 on Dec 9, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
More fairness
Mets just got a one-year rental on Santana (and first crack at signing him long term). Santana was gone after 2008 anyways.
Minus draft picks, of course
It’s starting to look like a year of Santana (when we had a chance to do something) and two draft picks was better than what we got in return for him.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
this trade is a bunch of Hooey!
so does mean the return of Twins small ball can begin?
The Twins changing the make up of the team b/c TF is not friendly to hitters who can hit the ball out of the infield?
I still say that holds true for Valencia too.
thanks to all the injuries we got Valencia. Otherwise Gardy had no intention of bringing him up. He would of been glad to play Punto and Tolbert and talk about their hustle and fielding and overlooked their .200 avg and no power. If Hughes kills the ball in the spring does he have any chance to see the field?
by b1 on Dec 9, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
At least O's fans have something to be happy about...
I can’t believe they couldn’t get anything better, I was hoping Hardy would at worst net a decent reliever and a throw in prospect.
My idea of decent isn't a guy who got shelled in 07
And I’m not sure the other guy is much of a prospect at this point.
WHAT?!
Rushed into the office this morning to finalize a deal only to find out the Twins have somehow completely screwed this up. Honestly, what where they THINKING? We have to assume there is something more, but I’m not even sure what more could fix this mess.
We are going to out score every team in the division in
getafteritness!
to bad MLB refuses to change their minds and insist that teams that score more actual runs still win the game.
Well, if Alexi Casilla isn’t hitting come July 1st, there’s a good chance that JJ Hardy can be had from the Orioles.
by Brady Eyestone on Dec 9, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
At a symposium w/ Dave St. Peter right now, to talk leadership
Really tempted to ask him to call his employees and demand they veto that trade.
Come on, we will make headlines with this trade
however it will be for all the wrong reasons.
Bill Smith just wants the Twins to be known as an eco-friendly team, they have a sign up at the winter meetings that reads…….
Minnesota Twins Recycling Center, send us your junk, and we’ll give something that works in exchange.
by Sixmark on Dec 9, 2010 10:49 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Also, if this IS a salary dump
isn’t that a little insulting to taxpayers and fans when we are only in the SECOND year in the new stadium? There have to be more tactful ways to get your budget under control than trading away someone the fans (at least on this board, on twitter and on MLBTR) value and see as an integral part of your team? (Though again, if this is a salary dump, it is the most illogical salary dump I’ve ever seen.)
I kinda understand Hardy, but Harris makes little sense to me.
Especially given the players going to Minnesota. Hardy has been overvalued since he was in Milwaukee and produced very little for the Twins. Having Valencia at SS makes me understand the salary dump. But Harris?
I just hope that scouting has done their homework on these two “warm bodies.”
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
Harris sucks
what doesn’t make sense about that.
It's not a salary dump
If you send money along with. It’s also not a salary dump if the players you send are worth more in wins than they are being paid. It’s just a horrible trade.
I thought they weren't sending any money.
Yeah, this is truly bad.
"I'm not a broadcaster! I'm me!"--Ron Santo
I don't get this.
if the Twins needed to send 500K to help finish this trade that means that the O’s didn’t value Hardy all that great either.
if the twins and Hardy when to arbitration hearings then would his salary have gone up all that much?
by eau claire twins fan on Dec 9, 2010 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
It still kind of is
Harris probably has negative value at this point – basically, as part of the deal, the O’s are taking on all but $500k of Harris’ contract. The Twins probably could’ve gotten more for Hardy without throwing Harris into the deal.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Who else's salary were they going to be able to get rid
of? They are overpaying several guys, Cuddyer, Kubel, Nathan and a few pitchers. They will be dumping these guys when they can, or maybe in midseason they will be able to trade them.
They saw a chance to tender Hardy and trade for something instead of just non tendering him.
Free up some money so we can jump back in the Cliff Lee hunt??
I can’t come up with anything else that makes sense, so why not throw out some crazy ideas.
Yeah right
Everybody knows he’s the laziest player on the team. Didn’t you see him when he wasn’t playing?
I am sure they are.
If this trade had been made by them, I’d thoroughly enjoy it. But no…it’s us. WTF AGAIN.
俳句！
Yeah this sucks
If I were Nishioka, my asking price just increased $1 mil per season. Oh, and you gotta learn up them Hockey Wilderness peeps on some defensive metrics!!
Well, yeah,
but I’d rather not join that jungle. I like to keep it at a distance.
and with that
goes every shred of confidence that i had in the twins front office. I’m at a loss for words.
The only way I support this deal
is if we hear a story later about how Hardy is actually a spy from the Yankees planted in MN to be sure that the Yankees would sweep again.
His tactics included:
Switching Morneau’s test results, keeping him off the field.
Hiding Joe’s 2% milk through the playoffs
Actually causing Nathan’s injury
Banging pots and pans in the hotel room at night to keep the Twins from getting sleep before games
Slipping Delmon Young fried foods to make him gain the weight back (May have been Mijares)
Visiting a voodoo doctor and cursing the whole team
And finally:
Getting Bill Smith to trade away a good SS for 2 minor league relievers
by #8 guy on Dec 9, 2010 11:40 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
I'll just assume this trade is part of some genius master plan the likes of which I couldn't possibly understand.
. . . better than the alternative.
by Danny Valencia's Pubes on Dec 9, 2010 11:42 AM EST reply actions
I wish I could live in your dreamworld. I'd like to believe that there is something else
but most of the time in the past, I’ve been disappointed.
Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD
I've said it on other threads I'll say it again
The trade makes no sense but it’s not the end of the world. We had ONE year left of Hardy. Do I think we should have kept him . . yes. Do I think he should have been worth more if traded . . . yes. Does this ruin my view of the front office . . . NO!!! It’s one deal for a good defensive SS who hit at the bottom of our order. Not worth the weeping an gnashing of teeth that’s going on here.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Yeah
but this seems like a trade a rebuilding team would make
Why do you trade your starting SS, one of the best defensive SS’s in the league might I add, for a couple of relievers that won’t be up here until the Twins host the All-Star game?
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Dec 9, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
correcting your statement
“won’t be up here until the Twins host the All-Star game”
I think you meant “won’t ever contribute to the ballclub”. These are not prospects. Jacobson is ranked 27th in the Orioles system. Granted, the Twins are usually the best at finding diamonds in the rough but the odds are 90% or higher against either player making the big leagues.
Doesn't there have to be some rational explanation of the trade
if we’re to maintain confidence that we have a rational front office?
That’s what worries me even more than the actual transition from Hardy→Casilla.
+1
This trade is bad, but not going to make a significant impact on the team. There is, however, a significant impact on many fans’ perceptions of the twins front office. Crisis of confidence.
+1
It’s the (lack of) rationale behind the trade that has people freaking out, not the trade itself.
I’m still thinking this was a trade to free up $$$ to overpay for Pavano. Also worrisome, but for different reasons.
This was a triumph
I'm making a note here - huge success
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Dec 9, 2010 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
I don't like this at all
unless there is some hidden agenda behind this trade I don’t like it
at all
This brings up the topic
worst trades in Twins history
obviously they won’t be able to match Herschel Walker, or the Kevin McHale era, but it’ll be interesting to see where this one ranks
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Dec 9, 2010 11:56 AM EST reply actions
anyone else listening to KFAN right now?
paul allen just gave a total of 30 seconds to mention it, then yawned.
i’m afraid that may be how the rest of the league, the twins, everyone but TT and UZR view him.
and you can put it on the boaaaaaard YES, HELL YES
Inept GM
What a fool the Twins are to let Bill Smith run anything. He signs Harris to a worthless contract, he signs Blackburn to a worthless contract. The trades he’s made have been completely horrendous. If they wanted to cut payroll why don’t they get rid of Cuntdyyer. He’s the most worthless 10 million dollar player in the history of the game. Yet Smith blows a hole in our whole team, leaving us with no proven middle inf., no offense at all from those middle inf., and he hasn’t improved the bullpen one iota, but he covers his own hide by getting rid of Harris’s bad contract. If I were owner he would be gone today. The Twins are an 68-75 win team as they are consructed right now because of Smith’s ineptitude. Why would you even let him go to the Winter Meetings when all he has done is destroy the team. The Twins are a second division team right now and will be for many years to come. You heard it here first. Plus they give Baltimoe .5 mill to make this trade. What a joke, giving away a very serviceable ss for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
The Twins are an 68-75 win team as they are consructed right now because of Smith’s ineptitude.
This view is ludicrous.
Everyone, settle the hell down. We traded an overrated and overpaid player and got the O’s to take some of Harris’s money as well. Hardy was an average players with a huge contract because of two big HR seasons that he has not come close to replicating the last two years.
Am I a huge fan of this deal? No. It does seem like a salary dump, but if so, there may be more moves down the line. Regardless, this is not the END OF DAYS or anything. Jeez.
Yeah, I am sure the SSSers are just laughing at our GM right now, rolls eyes. They were so afraid of what Hardy was going to do to them next year.
Hardy was gotten for Gomez last year, which is almost nothing, and for 2 average arms this year, also almost nothing. I think he may not be as highly thought of in MLB circles as everyone here thinks.
Run baby run!
How is it a salary dump when we send money along with the players??
It was a terrible deal. Terrible.
俳句！
I'd like to take a salary dump on this deal!
Billy obviously wants to remind us that we don’t need to sign any big names.
We are getting a potential MVP next season in Morneau and a All Star closer in Nathan…
Trade that bum Hardy what do we need him for. I can’t wait until we resign Jason Tyner or Adam Everette to be part time DH…
I have no idea what the Twins are doing this offseason. Maybe Terry Ryan just did a facepalm
Dude...
Remember that time that Bill Smith signed Orlando Hudson and Jim Thome for peanuts? And the time that he got Carl Pavano and Jon Rauch in exchange for spare parts, pushing the team to a division title? The guy’s made a few questionable deals, but he’s not batting .000 or anything.
The Twins are an 68-75 win team as they are consructed right now because of Smith’s ineptitude.
That’s right, everyone – JJ Hardy is worth 20 WINS ALL BY HIMSELF.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Dec 9, 2010 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LNP
just wait – next week, there will an announcement we’ve signed Nicky to a 2 year-$4M deal. Can’t wait to see the smile on Gardy’s face!!! I just love Christmas!
Well with his arm
He could …like….play WAY back….
by twinscrazy_german on Dec 9, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Pavano
Dave St. Peter did kind of tip his hand today saying they were very excited about have 4 extra draft picks. Did say that they weren’t necesarily closing that door but did suggest they’d be pretty happy if he signed elsewhere.
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