Minnesota Twins Winter Meetings Open Thread, Day 4
by Jesse on Dec 9, 2010 1:36 PM EST
in News
Email
Print12:35 pm -
I'm just seeing LEN III's update after the trade now. It looks like Nishioka is on his way to the Twin Cities for his physical in the next week or so. La Velle also punts in his two cents on the fallout of the trade, including an interesting quote from a National League scout and calling for "a hug sometimes instead of tough love" when dealing with Alexi Casilla. No doubt every player responds differently--maybe Casilla doesn't respond well to the tough love.
Also, MLB Trade Rumors announces what we had in our first update this morning: Joel Sherman says the Twins would consider trading Slowey.
9:10 am -
Most of us already know that the Twins have taken Scott Diamond in the rule 5 draft, while also retaining Kyle Waldrop. Baseball America's Jim Callis:
Scott Diamond, lhp, Braves. Average fastball and curve give him a chance to be a No. 5 starter/long reliever.
On the Pavano front, it seems the Brewers won't go to a third year. Let's hope the Twins don't, either.
As of right now, J.J. Hardy is still technically a member of the Minnesota Twins organization. But probably not for long. Hardy news will be updated throughout the day in the thread below. Let's talk about something else...
6:50 am -
- The Rule 5 draft is this morning. Per Beau's evening update last night, here's a list of players eligible to be taken. When it was first published it didn't include every player, but it looks pretty accurate now. Anyone there you fancy? Apart from Kyle Waldrop, that is.
- Joel Sherman thinks the Twins might shift a back-end rotation starter to make room for Carl Pavano. He calls out Kevin Slowey specifically.
- We already know the Rays flipped Jason Bartlett to the Padres. And it looks like the Rays got more for him than the Twins will get for Hardy, unless something changes.
That's all for now.
144 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I see three...
…Waldrop is obviously most likely, and I will be surprised if he is still a Twin at noon. With what they are getting for Hardy, can’t believe they didn’t protect Waldrop. Second is Yangervis Solarte. May be a long-shot, but the kid hits at every level. A long shot would be Ryan Mullins, who was very good at Rochester last year before his injury. Expect the injury will be what keeps him with the Twins.
This makes me sad.
Hopefully something happens where the deal falls through (sp?). But I doubt it.. :-/
"Danny Valencia is a fricking stud! Hide your daughters!"
-Denard Span
Buck up Minnesota
Hardy was a free-agent after this year anyway, so the Twins decided to cut bait and deal with SS now rather than later, thus saving $6 M and ditching Harry’s $1,75 M. Hardy was solid, but let’s face it, there were limitations: as in, no speed, some range issues, health problems, and not enough power for Target Field. (Were there any character issues? ) Add the free agency thing, and with Plouffe hanging out there, the Twins thought this was the best move. They get a couple of hard throwers in exchange.
Truth is, with Hardy’s cost and injury history, his value was never as high as bloggers here imagined. With Target Field playing bigger than big, we have to hope that the athleticism of Casilla and Nishi win out, or else it’s back to the Hardy clone in Plouffe and keeping the best of Nishi and Lexi at 2B. We really haven’t given up much over the long term. Is it enough to win a playoff series or even just the Division? It depends on a healthy Justin Morneau IMHO.
I’m at peace with this. JJ we hardly knew ye, but mostly because you were so oft injured….
by Old Twins Cap on Dec 9, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
+1
I still think that Hardy had more value on this team than in trade, but considering the Twins almost non-tendered him, getting some hard-throwing relievers should be looked at as a bonus, not to mention shedding Harris. I’ve said it before, but I’m high on Plouffe. I think he could step in, much like Valencia did last year, if Casilla should struggle at SS.
You could also look at it as the Twins were looking to go into next year with Hardy at SS and Casilla at 2B. I think Yoshi could be an upgrade over Casilla at 2B, which could cover anything the Twins lose with Casilla at SS. It looks pretty close to a wash to me.
THANK YOU!!!
I can’t get over the over reaction on this site today. I think most of the time we have an intelligent fan base here but for some reason most are really making a bigger deal of this then it needs to be. To be honest I’m kind of looking forward to seeing what we have in Casilla, Plouffe, and even Hughes (if he can stay healthy for more than a week). If one of them can step up and take the SS or 2B position like Valencia did at 3B this team could save so much money and use it for other areas of need.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Huh?
You don’t ‘save money’ by sending cash away.
Even as a salary dump, this is a fail. And it’s not that we love Hardy, it’s by the stats, he was the best option on the market and already in the fold.
We KNOW what we have in Casilla—a utility infielder. Why do we need MORE no-hit ‘hustle’ guys starting?
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 9, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Quick math
Hardy + Harris salaries roughly equal 8 million.
Casilla will be roughly .5 million and we sent them .5 million. Overall savings = 7 million. So we can spend 7 million on other needs. It’s going to be tough to judge this completely until we know what other corresponding moves are made. We don’t really know what we have in Casilla IMO. He’s shown flashes of being a very good player. He was much improved this year IMO and has the potential to be at least a solid regular. So we’ll see what we have. If not we also have Plouffe at AAA who has potential. Once again I think Casilla and Plouffe have potential and this is my opinion, that’s all. I’m more than willing to accept I could be wrong about this, time will tell.
What I’m hoping is the combination of Casilla at .5 million and whatever additions we make that we wouldn’t have made had we kept Hardy will be better than having just Hardy.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
You still don't get it
1) I don’t see the flashes of Casilla as “a very good player.” By the numbers, he’s nothing but a replacement player. You’re buying the Gardy line of “hustle” being better than “talent.”
2) There were better places to salary dump than a place of organizational weakness. You don’t offload where you have a NEED. After dumping Hudson already, Middle Infield was in flux.
3) You don’t “see what you got” while other teams are loading up in your division.
4) If you trade, you get value. Value is not a bag of balls. Value is at least a quality prospect. Show me the quality prospect in 2 overaged A ballers.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 10, 2010 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
Great, now we can salary dump Slowey to make way for Pavano!
Because going from Slowey to Pavano is a BIG IMPROVEMENT TOTAL FREAKING WASH!
How quickly winter meetings went from "gosh, this is boring"
to “ahhhh wtf are you thinking Bill Smith?!”.
What a terrible turn of events…
俳句！
by fischean on Dec 9, 2010 9:06 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I think we are over looking something
Mauer was obviously getting sick of Hardy asking to go fishing all the time.
by eau claire twins fan on Dec 9, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Tough to be a Twins fan today
A pure salary dump. Just great.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
An honest question here
…when did we become a team that has to salary dump? I assumed that after last year, we were all-in on this year as well. The Nishioka thing especially made me think we were going to have a higher payroll allowance, so…why get rid of Hardy, whose position is much more difficult to fill (well) and whose salary is much less than others’ they could have dumped?
俳句！
by fischean on Dec 9, 2010 9:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
This doesn't fit all the other moves we're making,
there has to be something else in the woodwork. I’m still optimistic about Greinke.
42
Here's my mind read of the front office:
“Alexi Casillia is really not much worse than Hardy and he’s much cheaper.”
If that were true, it wouldnt be a bad justification for the trade. Really, I don’t think Hardy was worth too much more than his 2010 salary plus Harris’s.
But I see no reason to believe that’s true. I hope it is. I actually like Casilla. But choosing Casilla over Hardy just reeks to high heaven a neanderthal’s perspective on player valuation. RBIs, clutchness, speed, errors, batting average, stolen bases, small sample sizes. All the stuff that even mildly forward-thinking baseball fans have realized was overrated for at least a decade. It suggests a religious commitment to “the old ways.”
Yes
It all comes down to Gardy. He doesn’t like SS who play deep and have strong arms (Bartlett, Hardy). He likes scrappy little guys who play shallow and get after it, numbers be damned. In his world, Casilla is better than Hardy.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
But does he have that much say?
I mean whoever traded Gomez for Hardy last offseason has to root for him to stay. The Twins must have seen something then, they should have seen enough this season to bring him back, why are they suddenly trying so desperately to get rid of Hardy?
What don’t we know here?
by twinscrazy_german on Dec 9, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
I think Gardy has a lot of say
Too much. I’d rather he stick to on-field decisions and leave player personnel to the FO. But he sticks his nose in it all the time.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
What skill set does Bill Smith have that would allow him to question Gardy?
He doesn’t know anything Gardy doesn’t. He’s junior to Gardy in the organization and Gardy’s the Manager of the Year.
(I’m not saying this is a good thing.)
If this is how things work, then it's a broken system.
I say SHONDA you say WOLVES" SHONDA! WOLVES!
by Eric in Madison on Dec 9, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, but Smith has scouts and advisors
Ryan, Kelly, Radcliff. These guys know player personnel. Gardy, not so much. But he’s the AL Manager of the Year. So he’s walking around with the award around his neck so he can have more personnel power. #justsaying
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
It does make you wonder
maybe gardy didn’t plan for the grass that TF would have?
like gardy sent gomez away in order to get a guy who could make the throw from deep short on artificial turf, then moved to the outdoor grass, and now he missed bunting and stealing?
even so, if they wanted to trade hardy, what’s the rush? maybe the nishioka talks were starting to go the way of the A’s talks with Hisashi Iwakuma?
and you can put it on the boaaaaaard YES, HELL YES
Here is why we got rid of JJ Hardy
Despite his bat, his defense is not that good and you need speed to be a shortstop. Plus, when it comes down to it, the market for shortstops in free agency is horrible meaning that there was going to be some interest in JJ in the first place. For the record, this isn’t a real salary dump. The money saved on JJ Hardy will go to other players such as Carl Pavano or Jim Thome.
*facepalms*
Your entire presumption is not borne out by statistics. Defensively he’s a VERY good shortstop.
And if the market was horrible, then we had no reason to trade him for a bag of balls.
by Shawn Gillogly on Dec 9, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
What are the odds we would post at exactly the same time?
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
umm we're both geeks who have nothing better to do than check mlbtraderumors all day ha.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
What kind of pitcher is Diamond?
Just a guess here: low 90s fastball, decent off speed stuff and good command.
Yes, and good sink
I’d say he’s somewhere between Duensing and Perkins
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Just from a quick glance at his minor league numbers
I’m thinking Nick Blackburnish? Doen’t limit walks as well but strikes out more and has as good groundball rate. Not sure what his “stuff” is like.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
I'm told he really stays back to get that good downward plane
Not really. Just warming up my Bertisms by the hot stove.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Can't we just get Bert to unretire?
by twinscrazy_german on Dec 9, 2010 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
He does a good job keeping the ball down.
He’s also the best athlete on the field right now.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
So a typical twins mold pitcher
not bad for rule 5, getting cheap decent pitching is always nice.
Lotsa walks
Maybe Anderson can fix him. I’m guessing he’s headed for our bullpen.
Twins take lefty pitcher Scott Diamond in the Rule 5
He looks like a better pitcher than either of the two we got for Hardy. WTF? FIPs in the mid 3’s and GB% in the mid 50’s.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
*sigh* This sucks.
But I suppose if you can get two minor league bullpen arms for a great defensive SS, you pretty much have to, right?
Bucky's 5th Quarter The best site for Badger news on the web!
Follow me on Twitter for the latest Badger Bits @veldyhoosey
On, Wisconsin!
If this isn't part of a much, much bigger move,
I am livid. Absolutely livid. And nothing in the Twins past suggests that it is part of a bigger move. I’ve defended Gardy all along, but this is ridiculous. We know Bill Smith has liked Hardy…he wanted him extremely badly last year.
look what the Nationals did when they lost Dunn
Their fans got supper pissed and then the Nats signed Werth for 7 freaking years to make it up to the fanbase
maybe now to make us happy the Twins will sign Pavano for 7 years! how awesome would that be!?
by eau claire twins fan on Dec 9, 2010 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Well it's official
JJ Hardy and Brendan Harris to the Orioles for Minor League Pitchers Brett Jacobsen and Jim Hoey…….
Bill Smith is a complete fucking moron. This better lead to a bigger trade…..
Why is this team cutting salary? They made money up the ass last year…they sold out every damn game at Target Field….How does that equal the need to cut Salary? if Anything that should equal the ability to raise salary?…..Twins Baseball: Mediocrity since 1963……
There are 27 other teams that would love to have the Twins version of mediocrity
Mediocrity is making the playoffs once a decade. Mediocrity is hovering around 80 wins a year. The Twins of the 70s were mediocre. The Twins of the 60s were great. The Twins of the 80s were very good. The Twins of the 90s were up and down. The Twins of the 00s were great. That’s one mediocre decade, one up-and-down decade (mostly down), and three good to great decades.
The Twins have had an extraordinary level of success for a franchise that came to the prairie with a long history of losing—below mediocrity for much of it’s first 60 years. It has won three pennants, two World Series and nine division championships since 1963. Only a handful of teams have done better, and all of them have had more resources to work with.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
"Mediocrity since 1963"
The Twins came to Minnesota in 1961. What did they do those first two years that was so impressive before settling into mediocrity?
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Hardy for Hooey
That about sums it up.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Dec 9, 2010 10:15 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'm somewhere between pissed and speechless
I knew it was going to happen and I knew the return was going to suck, and it does.
Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD
Has anyone looked up Hoey?
24 Ks and 23 BB in 34.1 innings. 32 runs in those same 34.1 innings.
Fuck Bill Smith.
Ahem
Please clean up the language. We get dinged every time someone drops the F bomb.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
how do White Sox fans...
even have a site at this point?
SSS has had a bit of an...overhaul in the recent weeks, it seems.
They’ve had to crack down as well.
俳句！
can we wish him
unpleasant involuntary intercourse?
The only stat that counts is W
by wayback on Dec 9, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think the Hardy trade is THAT big of a deal.
When I first read it last night, glanced at the players we acquired multiple expletives came out of my mouth.
Then after a good nights rest I realized hmm. We had him for one year . . ONE year. Yes it can be argued that we should have extended him and all that but it stands for now that we had him for one year just like Santana. His salary isn’t an amazing savings. It’s not the end of the world and in no way is it the worst trade ever . . the sky is falling . . etc.
Before the Nishioka deal we all figured the Twins would dump Hudson anyhow and we’d probably have to trust a middle infield position to one of Casilla/Plouffe/Hughes etc. While this may not be ideal in most of our minds it’s not the end of the world either. I realize we THINK we could have gotten more for him but look at what they got for Bartlett not a whole lot either.
It’s not like the Twins are going back to a 65 million dollar payroll either. Unfortunately, well fortunately, we’re not the Yankees either. The Twins have a lot of big contracts this year and next year I don’t see the Twins making a move like this. Unfortunately they are a bit hamstrung. I would guess the Twins feel that between Nishioka, Casilla, and plouffe they can fill that hole and hopefully with the money they freed up they can do something else.
So please, the sky is not falling. We didn’t just trade Mauer away for peanuts. We traded a good defensive shortstop who hit in the bottom 3rd of our lineup most of last season. Get ahold of yourself people.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
by halfchest on Dec 9, 2010 10:33 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
We traded a good defensive shortstop who hit in the bottom 3rd of our lineup most of last season
for nothing
I didn't say I was happy about it
Just all NO GOD NO!!! and This is the worst thing in the world, why are we back to the old ways comments are a bit redundant and over dramatic.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
by halfchest on Dec 9, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We traded away a stud SS for two relievers, and plan on starting Alexi Casilla next season. Yes. The sky is falling.
by Brady Eyestone on Dec 9, 2010 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think Casilla is as bad you you think he is
He’s better than the following starting shortstops we’ve had over the last several years:
Cabrera
Harris
Punto
Castro
He’s not as good as Bartlett or Hardy.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
A .633 OPS. Yeah. He’s as bad as I think he is.
by Brady Eyestone on Dec 9, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
The thing about Casilla is that he's still pretty young
A lot of guys were strictly in the minors while he’s been seeing major league time. I realize this past season is a small sample but he had a .726 OPS in limited time. He also found a way to put up a .707 OPS as a 23 year old in 08. While he’ll never be an all-star he definitely has the ability to be a league average middle infielder. once again, I just looked up and the sky is still in the sky.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
I'm also optimisitc about Casilla
He’s no Hardy. But he can do some things Hardy can’t, especially in the running game. The problem with him is he really hasn’t had a chance to prove himself since he tanked in 2009. He needs another chance and the Twins are committed to giving it to him. That’s praiseworthy. Apparently Plouffe is the back-up plan. I suppose that makes some sense too.
Once they got Yoshi, the writing was on the wall for Hardy. But I just wish they had gotten more for Hardy. I have to believe they took the best offer they got, which means Hardy is not as highly rated by baseball men as he is by us amateur Roto heads.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Yep hes better than some of the other abominations we've had at SS
High praise indeed.
by acpc2203 on Dec 9, 2010 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you I was beginning to think I may be the only sane one.
Besides. There’s no crying in baseball.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
But we made the Twins worse for no apparent reason.
Even if we’re not that much worse (maybe a couple wins or so), doesn’t the “no apparent reason” part completely freak you out?
by Luke in MN on Dec 9, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not really
I like to be an armchair GM as much as the next guy but when it comes down to it sometimes you just need to sit back and see what happens. I really liked JJ Hardy and thought it was a wonderful move to get him for Gomez last year. I do think this move is stupid, I really liked Hardy and I wish he were a Twin.
I thought we’d get more for him but just look at Bartlett, they didn’t get jack squat either. The Twins added a couple of bullpen arms with upside. That may mean they never do a damn thing but hey, ya never know. I think we can trust the same GM that built a 94 game winner last year and a manager that has won 6 of the last 9 titles. Yes the playoffs were tough I get that. Tony Dungy and Peyton Manning used to be known as the biggest playoff chokers ever and they won one eventually. No matter how good your team is the playoffs are tough and I can’t hold that against a guy.
What freaks me out is the over reaction to this trade and the inability to look at the extreme success the Twins organization has had for the past decade. I understand the need to vent but I just think it’s a lot of over reaction going on.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
yep, wait n see
all the talk about “staff ERA will go up 1/2 run with casilla at SS” is just hyperbolic. his glove is adequate, and if he bats .268/.320/.394 like hardy did, then it will have been a paper-thin downgrade. this is doable. yoshi should bring some excitement, probably a lot of money to boost future payrolls. also it will help to have ploufe, tolbert, et al applying the pressure. i’m cautiously hopeful about the middle infield. it really would have been nice to at least get uehara or somebody who is MLB ready in return, but i’m going to put the on the FO to make up.
and you can put it on the boaaaaaard YES, HELL YES
There's still time for the bullpen
I expect them to sign Dotel.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
That's what worries me too
One bad trade is nothing. But a bad trade for no apparent reason? Or a bad trade to open up another bad move (possible Pavano overpay)? That makes me worry about the organization’s methods and its thinking for the future.
This was a triumph
I'm making a note here - huge success
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Dec 9, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
+1
this really isnt the nuclear screw up many are reacting like. How many times last year did the subject of having no hard throwing relievers come up we had a severe lack of velocity and its no different in the minors. Its not an great haul but obviously teams weren’t offering that much and they wanted to move him knowing they would not be resigning him next year. Mauers contract is upon us there is gonna be some of this hopefully this means the money needed to get Pavano back is now available.
just look at what Dan Uggla and Jason Bartlett brought in
And they were both healthy plus UGGLA is a much better hitter than either Bartlett or Hardy. We should have seen that Uggla trade and realized we were unlikely to get much. Actually we should have seen that Uggla trade forming and went out and got him. Then sold Hardy to pay for Uggla.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Right
I can argue with the strategy of insisting on trading him. But I can’t really argue with what they got because they did get offers from at least six teams and this was their best offer.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
That is a sad fact
Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD
Lavelle's update
So there’s a couple comments in here that are interesting.
First that the Twins are sending $$$ with making a bad deal worse. I must reiterate not the worst deal ever but I’m not excited about it.
Then there’s this comment .
Hoey apparently throws hard. I asked an Orioles official if Hoey had a mid-90’s fastball, and the official raised hand repeatedly before saying, ``You have a chance to see some really big numbers from him.’’
I’m assuming this is just in reference to pitch speed? Do they think he can be a good reliever? I dunno. I’m actually somewhat interested in Brett Jacobson. He apparently throws mid 90’s heat and stayed an extra year to work on his breaking pitches. Should start in AA and who knows, might be another cheap relief option down the road.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
The point being
At least we got something our system lacks which is hard throwing relievers. I hear talk about being jealous of the hard throwers that continue to come out of the Tigers system, well now we’ve got a couple that you never know might make an impact.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Hard thrower =/= prospect
These guys aren’t prospects. Yeah, sometimes guys who no one thinks are any good become good. But unless I’m missing something, there’s no reason to give these guys any more thought than we give our own non-prospect high A, nobody relievers.
Really big numbers
Walks, runs allowed, mascots beaned
Even bigger numbers
angry twins fans, references to Santana trade
I agree . . . nothing to get too worked up about
At least until we see the other trades the Twins are going to make. 2011 isn’t ruined yet!
by Danny Valencia's Pubes on Dec 9, 2010 11:11 AM EST reply actions
Not ruined by any means, I agree
But for this trade to work, Nishioka and Casilla have to be good players from day 1.
now that I'e slept a few hours
I am slightly calmer, having gotten the expletives out of my system. I am still not thrilled with this trade, and even less happy that we included cash in the deal. I think Alexi will be a servicable MI this year, and I truly hope that this is part of something else that will make sense later. I like the idea of resigning Pavano, as long as we keep it sane. I like 3 yrs, if we can keep it at 8-9 per. As is the case with everyone overvaluing Hardy (he’s good, but not Ripken in his prime), I think that we may undervalue Pavstache (he did throw 221 innings and provided a stable rotation presence, and I believe he has a couple of good years left) I am hoping we are putting pieces together for another move that will make our team better in 2011.
I hate Bill Smith
by carlpavanosmoustache on Dec 9, 2010 12:27 PM EST reply actions
Agreed
I think he’ll only take a 2 year deal. Seems like most of the rumors initially say 3 but then that teams only want to go 2 with him. IF some teams steps up with a 3rd year he’s theres. I think the Twins at most should offer like 2 years 15-18 million w/ an option for a 3rd.
The comparisons to Ted Lillies 3 year 33 million deal aren’t fair as Lilly has never had the arm problems that Pavano once did. 2 years is fair, hopefully they can work something out in that range and maybe move a guy like Slowey or Blackburn. Maybe for a young MI prospect eh?
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Supply and Demand
After Pavano the drop of is to what? Webb? A guy who hasn’t really even pitched the last 2 years. There have been at least 7 teams linked to him, including the Brew Crew, who have been going at him pretty hard. Also, look at all the other signings. Everyone is getting over-payed so why not Pavano?
You may be right
but most of the rumors all seem to turn into the teams only wanting to offer him 2 years. If he wants to be overpaid then I say let him go roll with what we have and possibly adjust sometime during the season to trade.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
I agree
I rather not resign him if he wants anything over a 2 year deal…and even then I don’t really care either way. Also, when Lee is off the market that is only going to increase Pavanos market.
I'd consider
2 yrs with a mutual option for a third, that would be sensible for both sides
I hate Bill Smith
by carlpavanosmoustache on Dec 9, 2010 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
We are a competeing team NOW
The Red Sox bring in Crawford/Agon
The White Sox resign Paulie and sign Dunn
The Tigers sign V-Mart/ Joaquin Benoit with their FO saying they still have money to spend
The Yankees/Angels/Rangers FOs have all said they are going to make big moves.
The Twins? We we trade our starting SS, which I could live with, but two AAA at best RPs who don’t even really help the team this year.
After seeing the Bartlett trade/Uggla I didn’t figure Hardy had a lot of value but still. Move Hardy and get major league RP to help the team now? Fine, sounds good. Move Hardy for a 28 blah RP and a 24 year old A baller AND send money? REALLY? That is the best we could do? The other thing I don’t like about this is it seems this is a pre-curser to signing Pavano to his asking price for 3 years at 10+ million a year.
And Valencia is not a guarantee either
He was awesome last year, but we don’t know his real talent level yet.
This was a triumph
I'm making a note here - huge success
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Dec 9, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
And Morneau is coming back from injury
Which means he many not be 100%. We can’t guarantee anything about how he will play at this point…
even though I’m super hopeful he will come back better than ever…
This
The whole infield is now a question mark. I have minimal expectations for this middle infield.
I say SHONDA you say WOLVES" SHONDA! WOLVES!
by Eric in Madison on Dec 9, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Twins would consider trading Slowey By Tim Dierkes at MLBtraderumors.com
The Twins would consider trading Kevin Slowey – especially if they re-sign Carl Pavano – reports Joel Sherman of the New York Post. Sherman says the Twins have actually received inquiries on ace Francisco Liriano from the Yankees and others, but a team official can’t imagine moving the lefty.
Slowey, 26, posted a 4.45 ERA, 6.7 K/9, 1.7 BB/9, 1.2 HR/9, and 28.3% groundball rate in 155 2/3 innings this year for the Twins, missing time with elbow and triceps injuries. He’s a control artist who works around 90 mph, and with one of the highest flyball rates in the game Slowey would be best-suited in a big ballpark. He’s arbitration eligible for the first time this winter.
Gleeman is reporting that the Bartlett trade fell through
Maybe the Padres saw what the Twins got for Hardy and balked at the Rays asking price.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Of course not
Because we know that an unproven second-year guy, a guy who’s never played in America, and the second coming of Luis Rivas are not at all likely to struggle.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Or get hurt.
At least we didn’t lose Singleton. After the trade he worried me more than Waldrop, since our infield depth chart now looks like Matt Tolbert and Toby Gardenhire.
I don’t know how to do that gray sarcasm bar. If I did, that would’ve been covered in gray.
by Brady Eyestone on Dec 9, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
I kinda figured
Still, I had been waiting all morning for a vector to fit in my “Alexi Casilla is actually Luis Rivas wearing a mask” theory.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
sarcasm font
@ symbol before and after the sentence
This was a triumph
I'm making a note here - huge success
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Dec 9, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
I just had an epiphany
Clearing ~8 million owed to Hardy/Harris is obviously part of the Hardy trade, I think everyone agrees on that point, but what about the pitchers that came back? Hardy’s value seems greater then two, by all accounts, life time minor league RPs. Why not trade Hardy for a major league RP? Wouldn’t one major league RP be better then two minor leaguers RPs? This didn’t add up to me, but I think I got it. What if the plan was to trade him for two life time minor league RPs? Here me out now.
What if this really is a move to prepare us for something bigger? I think most were joking/hoping but it kind of makes sense. These 2 pitchers are not going to be used in any package for a bigger named player but the prospects they are going to replace are. Think about it. We need to free up money, we have a replacement with speed (even though it is a down grade, its true) in Casilla which Gardy wanted, and now we can trade away some of our top RP prospects (which we actually do have).
Maybe I’m just reaching, maybe I’m just dreaming, or maybe it I’m on drugs. But it kind of makes sense.
Hey! Welcome to the conversation!
The idea of this being a precursor to a bigger deal has been floating around here
but based on past experiences with this team, this looks like a salary dump, nothing more
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Dec 9, 2010 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
I was part of the conversation last night when it was announced
I just keep seeing posts that no one understands why we traded for these two arms and it doesn’t add up. If we bring in Hoey to take Slama’s place and Jac to take Guts place then it kind of makes sense.
I would rank these guys differently
Gut
Hoey
Jacobson
Slama
What Hoey and Jacobson bring us that we didn’t already have is heat. With the exception of Billy Bullock, the Twins lack hard throwers.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Yes, this is needed.
Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD
From Joel Sherman of the New York Post
the Twins have actually received inquiries on ace Francisco Liriano from the Yankees and others, but a team official can’t imagine moving the lefty.
Dear God if they trade Liriano i’m done with this team.
I think Wang would fit in the back end nicely.
by Brady Eyestone on Dec 9, 2010 2:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Either way, I think we can all agree that he needs to play by himself for a little while just in case he ever gets the opportunity to perform again. You know, to keep up his stamina.
by Brady Eyestone on Dec 9, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Wang
is a guy who’ll go deep into the ballgame, and really penetrates the zone, in fact, he averages about 2 balls per game
But I’ll bet that Gardy uses Wang to relieve the starters
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Dec 9, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Wang's slider hangs too much
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Yes
but when his sinker is hard and is getting in on the hands, he’s very effective
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Dec 9, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Dec 9, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Ramming Wang
into this thread was just really Wong.
Good point
Wang needs to be gently inserted, not rammed in, or else you risk upsetting your catcher.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
If he works up and in with a high hard one once in a while, Wang can be effective
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Twinkie Town
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- 10 notable team reps for MLB’s upcoming draft
- Rays’ gladiator helmets: Fernando Rodney, Joel Peralta do as Romans do (VIDEO)
- Rickie Weeks forgets number of outs, passes up chance for inning-ending double play (VIDEO)
- David Ortiz is angry that more people don’t see him as a leader of the Red Sox
- Reds fan catches two home runs in same inning — and then gives both balls away
