Twins Sign Orlando Hudson!
by Jesse on Feb 4, 2010 6:56 PM EST
in News
265 comments
UPDATE 10:15 PM: La Velle E. Neal III says it's done! Joe Christensen says it's one year, $5 million.
As our own Adam Peterson pointed out on Tuesday, the acquisition of Hudson does a number of things for Minnesota:
- It solidifies the #2 spot in the batting order, allowing J.J. Hardy to shift down to 7th. This is a strong lineup.
- Worth an estimated 3.05 wins above replacement (based on 700 plate appearances), Hudson improves the Twins totals by just over +1 WAR at second base. Adam can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain this pushes the Twins to an 89-to-90 WAR total.
- Bench strength improves for the second time in as many weeks, with an (initial) bench something like this: Jim Thome, Drew Butera/Wilson Ramos, Nick Punto/Brendan Harris and Jason Pridie.
Hudson's defense has been highly regarded over the last few years of his career, although he (like Torii Hunter) has been the benefactor of a great defensive reputation more recently. Since moving to the National League in 2006 his UZR/150 has suffered: -0.7, +0.5, -7.6 and -3.7 in 2009. In spite of this, he's taken home Gold Glove awards four of the last five seasons.
It's on the offensive side of the ball where the Twins hope Hudson can make an impact, as Hudson hit .283/.357/.417 in spite of a late-season skid and a questionable benching by Joe Torre.
Hudson still profiles as a strong offensive second baseman, in spite of some tailling peripherals over the last couple of years (a few more strikeouts, even more ground balls, increase in chase percentage). He can work a count and walks (9.8% walk rate in 2009), he's always hit his share of line drives (18.5% was a dip last season) and has good gap power.
In spite of a good speed rating, Hudson doesn't steal a lot of bases but he's smart when he does: he's 22-for-26 since 2007.
No matter what specifics you want to discuss in regards to this latest Twins offseason coup, the bottom line is this: the Twins are a better team with Hudson on the roster. At least one more time this winter, the front office has earned themselves a firm handshake and a high five.
For reference, our earlier speculation:
It's already been a day of will-he-won't-he, but it looks like this is on the brink of being official: the Twins' waiting game is about to pay off, and they'll pick up a nice upgrade at second base. In fact, ESPN's Buster Olney hears the deal will be worth about $5 million for, possibly, just one year. More details as they come in. Joe Christensen is still working to confirm.
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Who let the O-Dog out?
Who, who, who, who?
by TheBlackFreighter on Feb 4, 2010 7:01 PM EST reply actions
Bad culture reference, but...
I am just so freaking psyched right now!
by TheBlackFreighter on Feb 4, 2010 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Not as bad as...
Can you hear the drums, Orlando?
I remember long ago another starry night like this
In the firelight Orlando
ABBA the Music is at the State Theater, so this a no-brainer as the official song for the signing.
The Fact that O-Hudson is a switch hitter
only enhances the greatness of this move…. for him batting perfectly in the #2 hole…
a link to Neyer at espn:
ESPN
If Span bats .300 and gets on base, And Hudson bats .275 and gets on base at a high % also
the M % M boys should be full of RBI’s this year ….
Lets hope those first 4 hitters especially have one good and fully healthy season!
Baseball America ranked the Minnesota Twins as the 7th best minor league Org. in Baseball !!!! - that is good news...
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 4, 2010 7:02 PM EST reply actions
Love it!
Joe Mauer is next!
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
Thomas Jefferson
by RileysCannibalJct on Feb 4, 2010 7:02 PM EST reply actions
/Crossed fingers
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 4, 2010 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
Fingers, toes and eyes crossed
I saw an interview with Hrbek, and he said “No doubt” that Joe will sign. Just a matter of time.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
Thomas Jefferson
by RileysCannibalJct on Feb 4, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
Is it just me
Or does 2010 look like an awesome year?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 4, 2010 7:03 PM EST reply actions
Not just you!
RonGarde: Target Field is going to be exactly like Progressive Field, except you'll have a chance to die of frostbite in the middle of July
He's only 6 days older than me
just noticed that.
I’m loving this…
No longer a Division Winner-1st Round Exiter
Going for it all this year baby. SO EXCITED FOR THE SEASON.
Percy Harvin is my dealer.
Exactly
That’s what they’re gonna do I bet…Perkins and Casilla for something…
some beer? Baseball bats?
Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog
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a A+ or Single A prospect
and possibly a very good one…
Baseball America ranked the Minnesota Twins as the 7th best minor league Org. in Baseball !!!! - that is good news...
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 5, 2010 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
Absolutely no chance
a prospect sure, a good one? Ha.
Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog
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Casilla, Province, Martin, Butera
These are the kinds of prospects we are getting these days. The days of getting Liriano, Bonser and Nathan for AJ are over.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
exactly
but too be fair, they’re over for everyone. Although I think teams are perhaps overvaluing their prospects these days
Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog
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Who are we going to trade who is as good as AJ was anyway?
by ckb on Feb 6, 2010 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
We don't have a surplus at any one position right now
Except perhaps starting pitcher. Mauer made AJ expendable. Maybe next year in the outfield? But not now.
Still, Fetch9 is right, teams don’t throw their prospects around. Cleveland did well last year. Baltimore has had good fortune. But these deals are rare. Santana was proof of that.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I suppose Harris will be expendable when Valencia is ready
But I doubt he would bring much in return.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Expendable, yes
which is why the two year deal makes no sense to me. What do we gain from it? Sure, we may save some money in arbitration if Harris blows up next season, but what has he done to make us think that will happen?
by Adam Peterson on Feb 7, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
That's the lone offseason head scratcher
You don’t save any money this year. And you lose roster flexibility next year. The guy has been at or slightly above replacement level for six different teams over parts of six seasons. He’s a defensive liability at all but one position. And his age suggests a steeper than average regression curve. Guys like Harris are available on the market right now for MFA contracts for less than we are paying him. I didn’t think they would offer arbitration, let alone a two-year deal.
Frankly, I’d rather go with Valencia right now and keep Harris’ bench spot for Tolbert or Casilla, who can at least pinch run and play in the middle infield. But that’s not happening. They’re once again handing Harris a job that he has not earned. We know how that has gone in the past.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
+1
The front office must see something in Harris that we don’t. His potential for a little power from the right side is valuable, but with Hudson on the roster, if I were to have a choice between Harris, Tolbert or Casilla as the primary backup infielder (assuming Punto is now the starting 3B), I’d pick Tolbert or Casilla because of their speed. Of course, when we had to decide whether to offer arbitration this was not the choice for the Twins.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 8, 2010 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
With Gardy saying the past is the past...
Why still the eagerness to move the Perkisizer? Good depth at the back end/bullpen swing man.
hear hear
Keep Perkins — he’s good insurance as a starter, and a sold lefty reliever, with major league experience — if someone will pay equal value, fine, but otherwise, don’t just dump him for nothing. He’ll be playing in the bigs next year somewhere, and he might even be good.
He's also trade-bait
along with something else in case they need help in the OF or need more pitching come July.
Perkins pitched pretty well in the beginning of the 2009 season.
Plus, in his 9 career games in AAA (8 starts), he has a 2.68 ERA.
I think he can rebound from the awkward 2009 season. And if he doesn’t, lefties are always valuable for trades.
I thought I saw...
…that Tolbert has one more option? If so, I wouldn’t be surprised if Casilla get one more shot this spring to play a reserve role. We’ll see I guess…
by Twins Territory on Feb 4, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
that's what I would do.
Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog
You know you like college hockey
You could DFA Tolbert
Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog
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In a vacuum, yes
but when you have Punto and Harris with their flexibility, Tolbert’s flexibility really doesn’t give you any value added. When Casilla plays, Harris, Punto and Hardy can take the other three positions.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 4, 2010 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
No reason to
since Tolbert still has options left.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 4, 2010 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
have to get him off the 40 man though
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They'll have to get someone off the 40 man
either through a trade or they’ll waive Casilla.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 8:06 AM EST up reply actions
If the DFA him, they have a few days to try to trade him, a la Boof.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Tolbert's got at least one more option
I think he has two left. 2008 was a DL stint and injury rehab. Not an option, I think.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 4, 2010 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
It sounds like teams are interested in Perkins, but since he had surgery this off-season, they want to see him pitch this spring first.
by Twins Territory on Feb 4, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
My hope
We’ve been waiting to make this signing until we reach agreement on a trade involving Casilla. Perhaps Perkins as well, but if I’m another team I’d want to see Perkins pitch in spring training first.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 4, 2010 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
For weeks...
…we’ve been saying they should offer the $5 million they offered Washburn to Hudson. It looks like they did. I really hope this gets done as reported.
No more money for Wahsburn
makes me like this deal even more.
I know.
How thankful should we be that Washburn and Boras rejected us? They are the reason Hudson looks to be headed to Minnesota.
by Twins Territory on Feb 4, 2010 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
I think we should send Washburn a gift card or something.
Since its really cause he didnt take the job that we had this much money laying around…
How soon after an acquisition
does an accompanying move have to be made to the 40 man? As soon as it’s official?
Thome took over a week I think.
The signing doesn’t need to be “official” until the player has taken a physical and his results have been looked at. For Thome, he became “official” today even though we knew he was onboard a while ago.
by Twins Territory on Feb 4, 2010 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely.
Even Young at number eight. I know he isn’t what everybody hoped for, but that is still far down for him.
by Twins Territory on Feb 4, 2010 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
Good spot for Delmon
low pressure, he could really thrive down in the #8 spot. I also like Punto in the #9 spot when he plays 3B. He could really frustrate teams by taking walks at the bottom of the order with Span-Hudson-Mauer coming up after him. ’
I’m drooling.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 4, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
yea this lineup is deep
then Hardy has to hit 8 with Thome in the lineup right?….and if Delmon does what we all hope maybe he jumps Hardy, but if Hardy does what we hope then maybe not lol
Having grown up in Hudson
And having visited Orlando, I feel pretty qualified to say that this is a FANTASTIC deal.
I always loved that one.
by FoulJack on Feb 4, 2010 7:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
HAHA
I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Feb 4, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
According to my projections
the addition of Orlando Hudson improves this team from a projected 87.9 wins up to 90.3 wins, an improvement of 2.4 WAR just for Hudson. A hell of an improvement for $5M. Considering that most spots are typically at least filled with above replacement players on an 88 win team by this point in the offseason, this signing would be a coup, plain and simple.
Those WAR totals are low
It should be sitting around 95 with Hudson on board.
by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 4, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
95 is a pretty ridiculous projection for any team. Where are you getting that number from?
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 4, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
pretty simple
87 wins last year.
-1 for Crede
+ 1 for Pavano (all year)
+3 Hardy
+2 Hudson
+1 Thome
+1 for Liriano (and this could be more)
Don’t expect a ton of regression from Mauer. Morneau if healthy will add wins. Delmon should improve.
by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 4, 2010 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
87 prior?
First – 87 wins last year doesn’t mean it was an 87 win team. If I flip a coin 100 times, and I get 55 heads, it doesn’t mean that the coin is a 55 heads out of every 100 flips coin. Maybe some players played better than they will average (Mauer?!?!).
Secondly, here’s a different question. It would seem to me that this is not a linear distribution. That a 2.4 WAR player, adds more wins to a 60 win team than a 100 win team. How does this system work?
it's a good start
This team looks stacked right now and primed for some big things. 90 wins is a decent team that has a shot. We’ve all seen some 90 win teams. This team looks a heck of a lot better than that. We have shed huge black holes at P, RP, 2B, and SS now. We also had some serious injury issues last season that are not likely to repeat. Slowey was on the verge of a breakout, and Morneau went down in the 2nd half. This team really looks solid. 90 wins seems very low.
by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 4, 2010 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
Serious injury issues
I think there are quite a few teams out there that would disagree that we had “serious injury issues” last year. Yes, Mauer and Morneau for a month apiece is painful, but serious injury issues would have more players out for longer periods of time.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 8:14 AM EST up reply actions
We also lost our #2 starter
and had to deplete the AAA rotation
Wait......
Mauer out first month.
Morneau out last month.
Three starters: Perkins, Baker, Slowey all spending time on the DL.
That hurt. This was 3/5 of a young rotation and not much in the backdrop. Plus…where was Liriano!
Drop in under production from Young, Gomez and Punto…not to mention Casilla.
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Mauer and Morneau were pretty big
but we’re talking about 2 months total between the two. Hurt, but manageable. Slowey was the only pitching injury I woudl consider “serious”. Yes, Baker and Perkins spent some time on the DL, but with Baker it was minimal and Perkins was pitching badly far before going on the DL.
My point is that I believe on the whole, our impact due to injuries were on the low end relative to the rest of the league. But that’s a gut feel not based on any analysis.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
You're right, it's not linear
WAR projections are based on pythagorean run to win conversions. For a .500 ballclub with RS=RA, adding 10 runs scored (or removing 10 runs against) improves the team by one win. Adding the same 10 runs scored to a team that is already outscored by its opponents by 200 runs is not going to give you one win. I can’t remember if it comes out higher or lower, I need some coffee this morning.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
Lower I'd think
Adding 10,000 runs isn’t going to give you 1000 more wins, e.g.
Yeah
but I’m really talking about the effect that 10 runs has on the pythag win projection.
For a .500 ballclub with 800 RS and 800 RA, 10 additional runs scored projects to 82.006 wins.
For a .376 ballclub (61.062 wins) with 700 RS and 900 RA, 10 additional runs scored projects to 62.144 wins. So the effect is slightly greater when the spread is larger between RS-RA. On pythag, not necessarily actual performance on the field.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
Everyone is welcome to their opinion
but Adam’s numbers are based on actual projections with sound reasoning. Yours are based on your opinions. If you think they will win more than 90 games, great, but that’s just your opinion. Saying his numbers are “wrong” is ridiculous.
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 4, 2010 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'd love to see this
but you’re leaving out other potential areas of regression. Will Cuddyer and Kubel repeat career years? What about losing Gomez, particularly his defense? Do you expect Hardy to return to 4 WAR form, considering we actually got production from our SS last year (though not great production).
This is an easy back of the envelope projection, but it’s on the optimistic side, IMO. I try to set my projections as close to the mean as I can.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
a few things
Hardy, even if he repeats last season’s numbers, is already a modest upgrade for short.
If you are worried about Hardy, read this:
http://www.baseball-intellect.com/can-jj-hardy-bounce-back-in-2010/
and this:
http://overthebaggy.blogspot.com/2009/11/analysis-jj-hardy.html
His problems are mechanical in nature, and very easily fixed. You have an accurate point about Kubel and Cuddyer. In Kuble’s case, I wouldn’t be surprised if he repeated or even slightly improved. People forget just how much time he lost due to that injury. Cuddy is a bit more of an enigma, though I think his problems stem more from injury than anything else. If he’s healthy and still splitting up Morneau and Kubel, he will do just fine. I wouldn’t be surprised if he regresses a bit, but I highly doubt he suddenly turns into Jermain Dye’s second half last year. He could very well hit .280 with 25 home runs, which isn’t exactly a huge regression. Mauer is 26, and he might conceivably get better, though after the season he had, I admit this is hard to believe. I do expect Morneau to improve by staying injury free, which should cancel out much of the minor regression. Then you have guys like Delmon, who could quite possibly take big steps forward. Gomez hurt you badly at the plate (as would Pridie), but his primary use was a defensive sub. Losing him won’t lose much, it may not lose anything at all. It also undercuts guys like Baker, Slowey, and Liriano. Lest we forget, Baker got off to a horrific start prior to turning it around. I doubt he starts that badly again this year. Slowey’s numbers are deceiving. He was in the middle of a breakout season until he got hurt, and got rocked a couple of times after the injury. Liriano looks like a reasonable bet to return to the 2008 form, and, if these reports are true, an outside shot of being 2006 Liriano. There are a lot of reasons to think that this team will overall progress from last year, not regress.
The issue I have with a 90 win projection is that it assumes a lot more regression that what is reasonably expected, where there’s good reason to believe you won’t see it and does not take other factors into account. It is also flawed in that it assumes that wins beyond a certain number are harder to obtain. From a big picture perspective, this is true, because good teams have average or above average production at most positions, which makes it difficult to easily add wins. In the Twins’ case, this is not true. We had above average production at a number of positions and way black holes at 2B, SS, and SP. We also had slightly below average production at 3B after Crede left (as opposed to slightly above average when he played). With the added depth, I could see 3B being average or slightly below average, but at the other 3 we now have solid, and likely above average production. Those will make for huge improvements.
One other thing, I’m quite curious how your system has stacked up to actual results. If you were doing this modeling last year, or in years prior, what did it conclude? These systems are nice, but systems like CHONE and what not have been off by quite a bit on a number of occasions. That’s why the games are played.
by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 5, 2010 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
The one area where I would temper regression is in starting pitching
People forget that 3/5 of the opening-day starting pitching staff was on the DL for half the year. Now they acquired Pavano to deal with 1/5 of this problem. But those three guys figure to be healthy this year, and they retained Pavano. I think losing 3/5 of your rotation is a worst case. There can be no regression from that, only improvement.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Agree to disagree on where this team stands
I love the moves we’ve made, and I certainly hope I’m the one who’s wrong here. But calling this a 95 win team from a mean projection standpoint means you think there’s a good chance that this team wins 100+ games if things break our way. I think that’s too high, even for a top end projection.
However, my original attempt with these projections was not to attempt to project the team’s total wins, but rather as a tool to evaluate moves as we make them during the offseason. Total wins depends so much on where you set replacement level, as well as how pessimistic or optimistic your per player projections tend to be. 90 wins as a mean projection “feels” about right to me. But there’s plenty of upside as you note, particularly on the pitching staff. I could very well see Liriano return to form and give us 4+ WAR, as well as Slowey finally break through. Then again, I could also easily see Pavano out for much of the year, a repeat of 2009 Liriano, and regression from Blackburn. As you say, that’s why we play the games.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with you
From a numerical standpoint, it’s folly to predict more than 90 wins for any team but perhaps the Yankees. But there’s a reason to be optimistic that we could push beyond the strict numerical analysis. I mentioned the pitching. I also think Hardy is likely to improve, as will Morneau, by virtue of more playing time. You can’t factor those things into a numerical analysis, or at least not with the methods that, say, PECOTA uses, with strict regression formulas built in.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
As I've noted before
if this were an over/under, I’d put my money on “over”. I’m as optimistic going into 2010 as I have for quite a while.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
I see your point
Not sure I agree, but let me ask this, how many other teams in the AL have 90 win projections? Your statement makes sense if 90 plus is rare for any team (with maybe the exception of the Yankees)…
by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 5, 2010 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I haven't done a comprehensive set of projections
and I know projecting the Yankees isn’t the most useful, but using the same WAR methods I project them at 105.6 wins. Of course, we know WAR is not linear as you get farther from .500, but there’s a pretty significant gap.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
In order to make a real prediction you would need to do a simulation
or normalize for schedule in some way. The Yankees might be 15 wins better than us (I really don’t think it’s quite that much, but I haven’t looked at the numbers) but they shouldn’t be projected to win 15 more games than us with the difference in schedule.
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 5, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
In some ways......
That’s why you add a Washburn. You never know what the season will bring…and is it better to have Duensing, Swarzak, Perkins and Liriano in the wings than not.
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2009 WAR projections
I posted my 2009 WAR projections for the AL Central here.
Predictions were:
1. Cleveland: 91.5 wins (65 actual)
2. Minnesota: 88.0 wins (86 actual in the first 162)
3. Detroit: 87.4 wins (86 actual)
4. Chicago: 80.0 wins (79 actual)
5. Kansas City: 79.9 wins (65 actual)
I was right on with the Twins, Tigers and White Sox, and way off with Cleveland and Kansas City. Didn’t see the wheels totally falling off with the Indians, but once Sizemore was done, and they trade Lee, Martinez, DeRosa, etc., they were in full rebuilding mode. KC is just KC.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
KC is just KC
Good one. I thought they were moving in the right direction, until they traded for Betancourt. Now I think they’re basically destined to be bottom feeders for the forseable future.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
can't knock yourself for the Cle one
Like you said, injuries depleted the team and trading your best pitcher 2 years in a row doesn’t help
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Cuddy
Cuddy’s variable stats are surrounded around responsibility. It seems everytime someone else on the roster goes down from injury, Gardy gives up a “step it up” speech and Cuddy just breaks out of his skin. Last year when Morneau went down, he was hitting like .500 for the month of september or something crazy like that. Years ago, they moved him to RF and Gardy told him he “needs to start hitting like an OF” and he did. Someone just needs to get in Cuddy’s head and make him live up to a high expecation, because he will do it.
If the Twins want to be a real contender
they need a dangerous right handed bat. Cuddyer has got to be the guy.
I'm optimistic,
but 95 wins? Seems kind of high.
by Michael in N.Cali on Feb 4, 2010 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
95 is a projection of wins
not WAR. You get from WAR to wins by establishing a win baseline for a replacement team. The first time I did my projections, I used 45 wins. After looking at a bunch of other teams, I found that 47 was more reasonable.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 8:09 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Jesse must have gotten his +1 WAR from subtracting His production from Punto's
The fact that he’ll be taking most of his at bats away from Tolbert/Casilla is what brings it up to 2.4.
You’re right about that being a hell of an upgrade for 5 mil. 2 mil per win when wins are most valuable (85-90 wins) is pretty ridiculous.
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 4, 2010 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
+1 WAR was solely the second base production
Replacing Punto’s at bats with Hudson. Then there are additional improvements as Punto takes Harris’ time at 3B and Tolbert/Casilla at bats backing up 2B and SS. That’s how I got to a total of 2.4 WAR improvement.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
Wikipedia
believes the rumors :)
“Orlando Thill Hudson (born December 12, 1977, in Darlington, South Carolina) is a Major League Baseball second baseman, who is currently with the Minnesota Twins.”
Wikipedia no longer agrees.
Apparently, he also won a new award, the Gold Butt award. Which was also retracted :(
No, I didn't spell Maurer wrong, Joe did.
are we
talking about Harris here?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
The Gold Butt
Awarded to the grittiest, sexiest butt on the Twins team. Awarded annually by Ron Gardenhire. Nick Punto currently holds the record for most consecutive Gold Butt awards with 4.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Feb 4, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
From ESPN.com story:
Orlando Hudson is on the verge of a one-year, $5 million deal with the Minnesota Twins. There are still details to be worked out on the contract, but Hudson has chosen the Twins’ offer over that of the Indians and Nationals.
Not much else, but the story is here.
So apparently
he has chosen the Twins offer, but it’s not complete because other details are being finished.
by Twins Territory on Feb 4, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
My theory
Tolbert is optioned (as Adam said above, he possibly has 2 options). The Twins try Casilla out in the outfield in Spring Training as a possible backup to Span.
Teams want to see what Perkins pitch in spring training before making a move for him.
If the Casilla experiment fails, and teams like Perkins, then the Twins trade them both and bring Tolbert back on the roster. I am possibly wondering if the Twins solve all infield problems right here, right now, and trade Perkins and Casilla in spring training for Mike Lowell, with Boston picking up his remaining contract.
It will be an interesting few weeks ahead as spring training starts….but I am extremely pumped over the Hudson acquisition.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
But who is dropped from the 40 man roster to make space for Hudson?
I don’t think we’ll try Casilla in the outfield, but it would be interesting. More likely we trade Casilla and/or Perkins for 50 cents on the dollar.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
From Joe Christensen:
Twins will not confirm they are near agreement with Orlando Hudson. I was told they’ve made an offer and are waiting for an answer.
Not surprising
Seeing as the Twins never give any kind of specifics until the deal is actually done.
MLBTradeRumors.com
The Twins will not confirm that they are near an agreement with Hudson, according to Joe Christensen of the Star Tribune. Christensen has been told that the club has extended and offer and is waiting for an answer.
by eau claire twins fan on Feb 4, 2010 8:15 PM EST reply actions
Ken Rosenthal (FOXSports.com):
The Twins are in the final stages of negotiating a one-year, $5 million contract with free-agent second baseman Orlando Hudson, according to major-league sources.
Several hurdles remain before the deal will be completed, including Hudson passing a physical, the source said. But Hudson clearly has chosen the Twins, and the momentum for an agreement continues to build.
Rest of the story is here.
Nice, hope it happens
Casilla traded for a bag of balls to make room for Orlando is best imo. Keep Perkins imo.
Or DFA Drew Butera who has absolutely Zero future here in MN, behind Mauer Morales and Ramos. I would think there’s an OK chance he passes thru waivers anyway.
I hope Harris starts at 3B to begin the season with Punto getting work in CF during preseason and being Super Utility to start the season. Harris has stretches where he is moderately decent at the plate. Then he seems to “wear out” and go into suckitude.
Bench of Thome, Punto, Morales, Tolbert, Pridie…..OK, no Pridie, lolz Gardy can’t be “handcuffed” with an 11 man pitching staff.
I'm still a little worried about D
especially outfield D. If Pridie isn’t on the bench and Span gets dinged up for a couple of games who do we move to CF. No matter who you put in there it will be a defensive nightmare.
I guess we have to hope that Pridie keeps a packed bag with him 24/7 and the Pohlads have a private jet waiting…
by montanatwinsfan on Feb 4, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
Punto can do it
He can do anything!
Or, we can have the All-John Deere outfield of Young-Cuddy-Kubel
Watch Pridie get hurt in Spring Training
Everything looks great on paper. I think they’re going to DFA Casilla and see if they can find a taker.
Span is not permitted to get dinged up this year.
Easy as that.
Good rule
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 4, 2010 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
+1
You’re right. It’s against the rules for 2010. Other than Mauer, Span is our worst case if there were an injury.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
Pridie or some other OF defensive specialist will come north
I’ve been looking at other options here for a while, but cmath smartly pointed out a couple days ago that there will be a bunch of times when Delmon starts in LF, Kubel at DH and Thome comes in late in the game to pinch hit for Delmon. Having Pridie to come in as the defensive replacement after the change means we don’t have to lose the DH.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
I just don't understand why you would want Tolbert instead of Pridie
Harris and Punto (whichever one isn’t starting) can backup any infield position. Tolbert is redundant. Pridie, although not being very good, can backup all three outfield positions adequately. I don’t think there’s any way they break camp without him or another outfielder.
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 4, 2010 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
there's a difference
between thinking about what’s best and what we think Gardy will do. :/
My feeling is that Gardy is going to go with Punto at Super Utility to start the season, including CF. (He’s played 9g in CF in his career) With Tolbert and Harris getting most of the time at 3b.
If Punto’s going to play alot of 3B at the beginning of the year, then yeah, they need Pridie.
That said, we all know Punto’s going to be starting 5 times a week by June anyway, so…
This isn't Gardy's decision
and I can’t imagine FO would start the season with Punto as the primary backup at CF when there is absolutely no need for it.
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 4, 2010 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
I don't follow why it's so important
to carry a back-up CF. If something happens a call-up is one day way. As stated Punto can fill in for a game or two.
by b1 on Feb 5, 2010 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
No
Punto is horrible in center. We have nightmares about it. You need a back up for three reasons: In case you want to pinch hit Thome for Delmon with Kubel at DH, as a pinch runner for Thome, and as a defensive replacement for Delmon late in games. That was Gomez’s role in the second half last year, and he played in five games a week.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I don't want to be negative
Matter of fact, I feel better about this team than I have about a lot of previous teams. But let’s face it, the Twins are NOT a shoo-in to win the AL central. They still have question marks on the starting staff. Pavano and Blackburn are .500 pitchers, Slowey is coming off an injury, and who knows what you’re going to get out of Liriano/Duensing.
The fact is that the Twins’ offseason moves have primarily addressed offense (Hardy, Thome, Hudson), but this team was already near the top of the league in offense last year. In addition, Hardy is coming off a year in which he was so bad he was sent to the minors and Thome is coming off the worst year of his career and may just be the next in a long line of aging free agent busts.
I hope my concerns are unfounded, but I can’t help but think that this team is no better equipped to beat teams like the Yankees in the playoffs than they were the last several years. Nevertheless, I am really looking forward to what should still be a fun season. Plus, we’ve got a new stadium!
Hardy is coming off a year in which he was so bad he was sent to the minors
not true. Hardy was sent to the minors in order for the Brewers to save service time on him and also so that they could try their SS of the future out.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Wasn't he an All-Star just a few years ago?
He wasn’t producing so he was sent to the minors. I think the numbers would bear out my argument. Hardy was their shortstop of the present and future, but his lack of production forced the Brewers to go in a different direction. Hopefully, the change of scenery helps him here in MN.
you're both right
he was having his poorest MLB season last year. He also got sent down to save a year of his service time, which is good for us.
It's more like his numbers were bad enough to serve as cover
for the move 33MorneauMVP described. But it was an odd situation and his numbers didn’t really merit moving a guy coming off an all-star year to the minors.
Not true
He wasn’t penciled in as the SS of the future. He would have been if Escobar hadn’t developed the way he did. The team is limited by budget in the number of high dollar long term contracts it can sign. Escobar will play for 400K this season and 2 more.
if you are worried about Hardy, read this
http://www.baseball-intellect.com/can-jj-hardy-bounce-back-in-2010/
Honestly, this is correctable if Hardy and Vavra have this report…
by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 4, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
You're both right
Hardy earned a trip to the minors with his performance, but the Brewers really did it to save a year of service time. Probably the difference between them getting Gomez or Perkins in return.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
Not many leftys throw in the mid-90s
When Perkins is healthy, he throws hard. He just hasn’t been all that healthy. And he doesn’t have great breaking stuff. But he can be very effective as a lefty reliever. And the world is not filled with effective lefty relievers.
Still Hardy is too good to expect to get him for Perkins. I was surprised Gomez was enough. Fortunately, Melvin likes defense.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I think we're just going to have a grind-it-out starting staff this year
Baker Pavano Slowey and Blackburn consistently decent, rarely awful, a few great starts sprinkled in.
I like Liriano and hope we can get the old Frankie back obviously…But, the guy I’m really rooting for this year and want to see as our 5th starter is Brian Duensing. He had some brilliant starts for us last year.
I agree, not really a strength, but not really a weekness
We’ve got about 7 or 8 mediocre major-league pitchers, with a little upside on top of that.
Yes
if things go really badly for anyone the Twins can replace them at least in the short term with another probably-not-terrible pitcher. If things go right, they have several guys who could be significantly above average starters, even if not quite ace-like.
by ckb on Feb 4, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Totally agree
I think I might have been one of the first people on this discussion board clamoring for Duenseng to get his shot in the starting rotation (I figured he couldn’t pitch any worse than Swarzak was pitching last August).
yes
am i the only one that wonders why swarzak isn’t discussed a little more for trade bait?
by Cody_3_twins on Feb 5, 2010 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
because
Swarzak has the potential to be a #2 starter for this ballclub and his minor league stats will prove it.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Feb 5, 2010 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
hope so
he’d for sure be the last out of that group who I’d expect to be traded….like perkins, or manship…idk what manships upside really is or his value…but yes i just hope next time swarzak’s up he shows some strides
by Cody_3_twins on Feb 5, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
I am certain
he will. Look at Johan and Francisco, when they were first called up (as September callups). They did fine for the first two games and then were absolutely rocked.
Swarzak will be called up again certainly in September, but probably in July (if Pavano/Liriano gets hurt).
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
yes very good point
idk if anyone could have really guessed without a doubt that Johan would ever become what he has
Manship,Duensing and Swarzak
All have time and options. They don’t need to be traded because we don’t have any holes to fill. Of course that could change with a injury.
by b1 on Feb 5, 2010 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
Huh?
“the Twins’ offseason moves have primarily addressed offense”
Hardy and Hudson are big-time defensive upgrades over the Harris / Casilla keystone combination.
I think you've forgotten
Who the shortstop was for the 2nd half of last year. It was Punto, not Harris. And no, Hardy is not a defensive upgrade over Punto (in my mind, at least), but he has more offensive capability than Punto.
Besides, my point was that their primary need of pitching was not addressed, though I concede that really good starting pitchers are really expensive.
Cabrera was bad too
Hardy has been a terrific fielding shortstop, better than anything the Twins had last season.
Hudson isn't an upgrade over Punto defensively
but Hardy is. Hardy has always been a great fielding shortstop.
I think defensively as well
He’s not as flashy, but he’s steadier.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Also, the Twins used Tolbert and Casilla there extensively
He’s definitely an upgrade over those two defensively.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Starting pitching and outfield defense are our only real concerns now - not a bad place to be
And I don’t think our starting pitching is awful, just could be better. Outfield D is bad but should be made up for by offense (possible exception of Young)
Remember when we used to be a pitching and defense team? Oh the times, they are a changing…
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Feb 5, 2010 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, depending in part on how the stadium plays
We could see some really high-scoring games. (and i think with most of the scoring on our side)
The prevailing wind blows out toward right
Right into the gap between the high stadium down the right field line and the parking garage. After April, there will be talk of a channel, as there is in Arlington and New York. Morneau, Kubel and Thome should really benefit from that (as will Sizemore and a few others).
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
First timer
Love this blog and kudos to great insights and clever posts.
Am I missing something or do we have too many in the pen? How can we bring Rauch, Crain, Neshek, Condrey, Guerrier, Majares, Nathan, and assumedly one of the lefties (Duensing?) north? That puts us with 13 pitchers. With Thome as a bench player, that can’t work.
by z-squad on Feb 4, 2010 9:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Duensing will start in AAA
maybe Neshek too for at least a little while. Long enough to see if the rotation will work.
Plus, who knows what will happen during spring training.
by ckb on Feb 4, 2010 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Yep
Either Neshek starts the year in AAA to tune-up (he has options remaining), or one of the lefties does (or possibly gets traded). There is always the possibility of Condrey not making the team, although Ayala still made the team out of ST last year haha.
And . . .
Traditionally the Twins like to start a season with just 11 pitchers due to all the off days near the beginning of the season.
Good Point
Without the Thome signing, I would have guessed 3 catchers, knowing Gardy. Obviously between Thome and Morales’ injury, that won’t happen now. But you’re right, they usually go 14/11 out of ST.
we start the season
with 8 games in a row and 13 games in 14 days.
so not as many off days at first as usual
Didn't know that
But there are a lot of fresh arms early in the season, meaning it’s okay to work the bullpen a little more intensely than you would later in the season. In addition, the weather is usually very suspect in early April, so there could be rainouts/snowouts that essentially act as off days.
You should have photoshopped O-Dog and B. Smith on before posting
But i get your drift.
Oh My Freaking God!!!!!!!!
Now if we can get Mauer resigned and a pitcher, watch out MLB, we will have a very series shot at the Series now.! Frikken AWESOME!!!!!!!
"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk."
"You men are only risking your lives, while I am risking an almost-certain Academy Award nomination for Best Supporting Actor!"
"We have clearance Clarence. Roger Rodger, what's our vector Victor?"
our pitching staff is fine
Mauer
Mauer
MAUER
by clutterheart on Feb 4, 2010 11:48 PM EST up reply actions
This about seals the deal for signing Mauer as well!!!!!
All Joe asked was for the Twins management to show that they are comitted to making the team better by aquiring a few key people. I think this shows that they are ready to do that now. They have signed Pavano again, took care of any possible arbitration issues with several other players and now the signing of Hudson. Mauer can see it unfolding before him, he get’s to stay at home and sign a new deal with his hometown team and be a contender……….requirements met……..hand me the pen sir!!!!.
I think the causality goes the other way
Once we reached a preliminary agreement with Mauer and knew that his salary this season isn’t jumping $15M, we were comfortable spending another $5M. Of course, I’m speculating regarding Mauer’s eventual salary this year.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 8:32 AM EST up reply actions
Shock
I can’t believe this just happened. Here is my theory, how about we sign Mauer to a one-year deal so next year we will have this urgency all over again in the offseason. This is by far the best offseason I have witnessed in my life. Is it April yet?
Best Twins Offseason ever?
Gotta admit it guys.. Bill Smith has done extremely well.
Hardy for Gomez.
Signed Thome
Signed Hudson.
Signed Condrey.
Bringing back Pavano.
Mauer extension soon.
This team has everything it needs to make a deep playoff run. I am so freakin’ pumped up for Spring Training! Let’s go!
agreed
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Feb 5, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
you and fischean
always talking about balls.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Feb 5, 2010 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
Need to add a new item to the list
Keep Bill Smith happy ($$).
Don't forget keeping all our arb-eligible guys
And being willing to spend, like, a billion $$ on the bullpen
also no arbitration offers if type a status
also no arbitration offers if type a status
Doofenschmirtz Evil, INC.
Phineas and Ferb
similar
to Orlando Cabrera.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Feb 5, 2010 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
hell
yes!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
comparing players by using their salaries is only appropriate
if you are an owner, or you are a fan/GM looking still looking to make moves on limited roster space. Or, I suppose if you are looking at multiple year contracts.
The Twins no longer have to make any moves this year. Their salary is set. O-Hud’s deal is for one year. Who the F#*! cares if the Twins spent 5 million to get him or 50 billion. For this year it doesn’t matter.
by montanatwinsfan on Feb 5, 2010 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
First post
Can the Twins score 60 more runs to threaten the all-time franchise record (877 in 1996)?
I’m certainly thankful that Smith is taking the scrappy battler levers out of Gardie’s hands. Really looking forward to watching a Twins lineup with more than five or six major league hitters in it. Unless the Twins suffer an injury contagion a la the 2009 Mets, Gardenhire should have the tools to make a run. Increased investment brings increased expectations, and folks won’t be soothed by such blandishments as “we battled our tails off out there” from Mister Six and Eighteen in the Postseason.
I hope this allows to Tolbert reexperience the magic of summer in Rochester.
I’m starting to wonder if we’re not in a similar payroll situation as the Indians in the first years of Jacobs Field. Maybe we’re in for a multi-year run of payrolls in the top 12. Pinch me.
The Thome & Hudson signings have a Jack Morris/Chili Davis sheen to them. When’s the last time a non-native contributor signed here ?
Anyone else see the resemblence between Hudson and Omar?
D O double g. Welcome. Enjoy hitting in front of the Chairman.
Adam P – - Another pine tree laner joining the fray here (Schaefer).
Watch out league — I’m starting to feel like the smart but poor guys just got a nice raise and are starting to get dangerous. Now for the absolute touchstone signing…
Awesome Jeff!
Nice to see you here. But I won’t be pinching you…
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
It's official
Confirmed by Twinsbaseball.com
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 5, 2010 1:18 AM EST reply actions
40 man roster decisions
Twins will probably have Hudson complete a physical before the actual signing. This will give them a little time to figure out what to do with the 40 man roster, alla Jim Thome.
Luke Hughes
Trevor Plouffe
Estarlin De Los Santos
Matt Tolbert
Alexi Casilla
Rob Delaney
One of those players will most likely be cut. Unless the Twins work out a trade with Alexi and Perkins, I believe the Twins will cut Estarlin De Los Santos. Santos is not that well known, as a prospect, so therefore he has a decent shot at passing through waivers. Casilla, Tolbert, Delaney, Plouffe, and Hughes all would probably be picked up by some team.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Seth says de los Santos isn't an option
Apparently he has to stay on the 40-man for six months. Same with van Mil.
Hughes or Tolbert
With Punto,Harris,Valencia, and Tolbert you’ve got 4 -3Bman. You don’t need Hughes.
by b1 on Feb 5, 2010 8:19 AM EST up reply actions
Correct
You can’t drop any players added until spring training, I believe. I they were added right after the season ended, you do magic with them, but not when you must set the 40-man rosters.
Remember that any player grabbed must go on that team’s 40-man roster. It doesn’t mean they have to stay, though…can continue to pass thru waivers and if successful, then demoted to that team’s minor league (we all rememebr J.D. Durbin, right).
Sometimes you wait until the last day of spring training. The Twins could take that gamble with Alexi, possibly.
But, yeah…Hughes would be the next to go from the list. Does he bring more to the table than Plouffe? Is he on the chart behind Valencia? Is Tolbert mroe valuable? WIll Dinkelman and Singleton pass him on the minor charts in 2010?
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
I got tired of checking to find confirmed reports yesterday evening
I was really hoping I’d get to read articles about Orlando Hudson in the morning and I was right.
As a side note, did anyone notice that Kennedy signed with the Nats. I kinda feel sorry for them in a way, but not really.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
My 25 Man
This should be awesome. Hope they keep Perkins as I really like him off the bench. Your thoughts?
Lineup
L Span CF
S Hudson 2B
L Mauer C
L Mornue 1B
R Cuddy RF
L Kubel DH
R Hardy SS
R Young LF
R Harris → Valencia 3B
Bench
Punto IF
Pridie OF
Thome DH/PH
Morales C
Starters
Baker
Blackburn
Pavano
Slowey
Lariano
Bullpen
Nathan
Guerrier
Crain
Majares
Rauch
Perkins
Neshek
This looks right to me
I might keep Casilla around instead of Pridie, but yep. Leaves Condrey off the roster, though, which is fine with me.
by Eric in Madison on Feb 5, 2010 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know why we need two utility infielders and no defensive replacement for Delmon
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Utility infielders
I’m pretty sure any of the infielders could play a better LF than Delmon. The reason to keep a defensive outfielder is to give Span a day off now and then. Pridie and Tolbert might both be on the Rochester shuttle. Ships passing in the night.
Not if they've never played out there
Tolbert has, but Casilla has never played in the outfield in his career.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Delmon
might be a different fielder. I heard he cut 30 pounds of that frame. I am looking forward to seeing him play.
by Bert: Oh, we're live? on Feb 5, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
That would help
Hopefully not just in speed but quickness. Also, he really struggled in the Dome with that bank of lights in his eyes. I think that was the toughest left field in baseball. The new park has the space-age light ring, well above the outfielders’ sight lines.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Good point.
Has anyone else heard that he has lost weight?
by Bert: Oh, we're live? on Feb 5, 2010 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I'm surpised it wasn't a bigger story
I hardly recognized him at Twins fest. Not only will this help int eh field, but with bat speed.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I want to see a picture
I think he will be a different player. At least that is my hope!
by Bert: Oh, we're live? on Feb 5, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
different?
as in how?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Feb 5, 2010 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
As in, he will be able to run after balls quicker if he's dropped some weight.
We won’t see him lumbering around left field anymore.
RonGarde: Target Field is going to be exactly like Progressive Field, except you'll have a chance to die of frostbite in the middle of July
I know
I was just being sarcastic. Delmon is actually surprisingly fast for his build but he just had terrible breaks on the balls hit at him, which made him take an usual route to the ball, thus making him appear slower.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Feb 5, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Surprisingly fast for his frame
may be true, but it really was painful to watch him run. Something just looks wrong. Hopefully the 30 lbs will help.
Odd how painful and entertaining can go hand in hand sometimes though, isn't it?
RonGarde: Target Field is going to be exactly like Progressive Field, except you'll have a chance to die of frostbite in the middle of July
Best shape of his life?
He’ll run a little faster and not having the dome roof and lights in his eyes will surely help but he’s not going to be a good outfielder.
Playing LF just isn’t that hard. There’s a reason they put big lumbering sluggers out there.
Probably not 'good'.
But hopefully he’ll be better this year.
RonGarde: Target Field is going to be exactly like Progressive Field, except you'll have a chance to die of frostbite in the middle of July
+1
We don’t need good defense out of him, we just need it to be good enough so that we get some value out of his bat.
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Feb 5, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Twins Optimal Lineup IMO
CF Span
2B Hudson
C Mauer
1B Morneau
RF Cuddyer
LF Kubel
DH Thome THOME SEVENTH!!!!
SS Hardy
3B Punto
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Versus RHP, sure
Versus LHP when Mauer and Morneau get a breather
CF – Span
2B – Hudson
DH – Morneau / Mauer
1B – Cuddyer
RF – Kubel
C – Morales
LF – Young
SS – Hardy
3B – Harris
We should go Harris/Valencia
In all seriousness, there’s no upside to Punto, Harris is approaching a potential break out season in his career if he wants to stay in this league, and Valencia could learn a lot from a now veteran-ball club twins team. He’ll see a lot of good hitter’s pitches being protected by the top of the lineup in Span and Hudson, why not give the kid a shot at the bigs and at least give him some experience? I say platoon Harris and Valencia at the 9 hole/3B
Veteran ball club...
…that just sounds odd when referring to the Twins. Yeah, it’s happened before, but there always seems to be a few youngins we rely on. I agree with using Harris/Valencia, but I’m sure we’ll get a healthy dose of Punto as well.
Just hold on
Punto rarely has a season where he doesn’t spend time on the DL. Valencia will get his chance when he shows he’s ready.
Arbitration Clause
Someone explain to me exactly what the Twins did with his “no arbitration offer next year”.
This is only a 1 year deal, all money guaranteed.
If he becomes a Type A Free Agent (by performing well this year?), then they can’t offer arbitration to him. Would we lose a draft pick or not becaue its only a 1 year deal?
If he is a type A and signs with another team
next year, the Twins will not get any compensation. I think we will be seeing a lot more of these “no arbitration” clauses.
But.....
no draft pick. But also, no arbitration, which can hurt a player. If Cabrera had gone toa rbitration with the Twins, he would be making significantly more than he is by signing with the Reds. Same with Hudson, if he had gone the arbitration route with the Dodgers. Of course, a team doesn’t have to give you arbitration either.
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Cabrera
Twins wouldn’t have offered him arbitration because of that.
Anyway, this “no arbitration” clause is a demand coming from the players. Last year some players found it difficult to get signed at a decent salary, because teams didn’t want to give up the pick.
It is a smart move to get around the rule, since the rule hurts players.
I could see this rule changed in the next CBA.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 7, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Change the formulas
The compensation formulas are screwed up. Relief pitcher become more valuable than starting pitchers and second basemen more valuable than shortstops. Tweaking the formulas would solve most of the problem.
You only get draft picks if you offer a potential FA arbitration
and we cannot do that with Hudson’s contract. Which is good for Hudson, since any team that signs him in 2011 won’t have to give up a draft pick.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 5, 2010 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
1st Half
One thing to look at, his 1st half stats were far better than what he put up in the 2nd half…if we get his 1st half numbers, this looks even better.
Thoughts
I really don’t see Valencia playing alot in the bigs unless he forces Gardy to keep him due to an amazing spring…which isn’t going to happen.
I think the team looks something like:
CF – Span
2B – Hudson
C – Mauer
1B – Morneau
RF – Cuddyer
DH -Kubel / Thome
SS – Hardy
LF – Young
3B – Punto / Harris
Bench
Harris 1B/2B/SS/3B
Pridie OF
Thome 1B/DH
Morales/Butera C
Starters
Baker
Pavano
Slowey
Blackburn
Liriano / Perkins
Bullpen
Nathan
Guerrier
Crain
Mijares
Rauch
Perkins/Liriano/Condrey
Neshek
Signing Hudson means either Tolbert or Casilla is on the way out. I could also see Perkins and/or an arm from the pen get dealt. We have a logjam of relievers.
I think Punto plays alot at 3rd this year while subbing at 2B, SS, and even CF on occasion.
Nice "feel good" article here
If your a Twins fan that follows them year in and out…you are probably pretty stoked about the off-season put together. This article sums it up well.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/hudson-and-the-twins/
Love it
I can’t see a single weakness on this team. The biggest one might be lack of lefty pitchers. Who cares.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Maybe
Still alot of lefty’s in the lineup. I’d hate to be the pitcher who struggles with LH hitters when our lineup turns over.
I agree lack of lefty pitchers, but we’ve gotten by. Would have loved a big right handed bat…but Cuddy will just have to play to his potential.
Outfield defense could be a problem
Otherwise, no other real weaknesses. Things like lack of lefty pitchers aren’t great but aren’t really a problem either. Same with the rotation in general – it might not be the best, but shouldn’t be a big weakness either.
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Feb 5, 2010 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
How often will we see
Delmon in left, Kubel at Right, Cuddy to first and Thome at DH. So we can rest Morneau. . . When we signed Thome this was one of the first things that really stood out to me. The option to sit Morneau and still have a good bad to replace him. My hope is this would help Morneau finish the year strong. Unlike the past couple years.
by Bert: Oh, we're live? on Feb 5, 2010 1:07 PM EST reply actions
I'd hope that
in a scenerio where we rest Morneau, we don’t play Young and Kubel at the corner OF spots together. Maybe in that situation it would be Cuddy at 1st, Kubel or Delmon in RF/LF and Pridie at the other OF spot.
I hear ya
I just really need Morneau to finish the year out strong. The fact that we can rest him and still have some power in the line up feels so good!
by Bert: Oh, we're live? on Feb 5, 2010 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
I just really need Morneau to finish the year out strong
Why do you need Morneau to finish the year strong? Is he on your fantasy team? :)
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Ha
No, I don’t play fantasy baseball. But that would be a good reason. I just think he is one of the leagues best and I want him to be regarded as that. Plus that would help the Twins win!!!!!!!!!
by Bert: Oh, we're live? on Feb 5, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Kubel
Has anyone heard if they tried Kubel at first? Wouldn’t it be worth trying him out at first so we could keep Cuddy in the outfield on the days when Morny gets a rest? Still not the fastest outfield but we’d be better off deffensively than when Kubes and Young are out there…tho I am expecting a drastic improvement fin DY’s defense…
Everyones talking about
how if Span gets a day off we’ll send out Pridie right? Well thats all well and good, but whos going to hit leadoff?
I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Feb 5, 2010 4:23 PM EST reply actions
Span gets a day off...
Hudson
Hardy
Mauer
etc…..
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 5, 2010 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Dodger fan here
this a great signing for you guys. As many of you know, I’m sure, Joe Torre benched O-Dog in the playoffs, and even a little bit before that. This made little sense to just about everybody. Ronnie Belliard was hitting very well in September, but cooled off in the playoffs (even though he got a few big hits) and the fact that Torre didn’t give Hudson even a LITTLE bit of playing time in the field- even after his pinch hit homer in game 5 against the Phillies- was beyond belief. All this was nothing compared to the fact that not offering arbitration ensures that you guys will keep your draft picks intact.
Well, you’ve now got a great second baseman, and it looks like it’s gonna be a great season. Best of luck- this is nothing but a positive for all of you, other than the fact that you may have to spend a little bit of extra time outdoors in the cold! ;)
On Torre's decision
ESPN did a poll of players on managers. The questions were related to who has the most respec of his players, who is easiest to work for, who gets the most out of his players, who recognizes talent the best? Stuff like that. Torre finished dead last in every category. O-Hud’s benching happened after the poll, but it makes a lot of sense in light of the poll.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Good sign for the twins
I like them getting O-dawg. Any chance we will take Crede back?
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