Is this the slowest Twins team in recent memory?
This is my first fanpost, so hopefully I've followed the rules and not embarrassed myself to much. Here goes.
Is anyone else concerned with how slow this team has become? I had not even thought about it until this morning when I read this article over at Bleacher Report, where Brandon Erickson suggests getting Crede to improve our still glaring hole at 3rd base.
After doing a little bit of research I discovered we are on pace to have the slowest* Twins team in my recent memory (I was only 4yrs old in 1984 so it doesn't count). Last year as many of you probably can remember we had a grand total of 85 stolen bases, which is our lowest total since 2002 when we had 79. After looking at the total amount of stolen bases (last year) per player on our starting roster this year, we are looking at 60 stolen bases! Which is actually what CHONE projects for us also this year (from the starting lineup). The last time we stole so few of bases was 1985 when we stole 68. Also, the 60 stolen bases is factoring in that Punto will get 392 AB (which is up from last yr where he had 359 AB). I know Punto has his faults, but subtract him from the lineup and we are hands down the slowest team on the base paths in the majors.
The stolen base leaders on our team last year were:
Span - 23
Punto - 16
Gomez - 14
Casilla - 11
So with Gomez now gone, replaced by Hardy (who has a total of 5 career SB) and with Casilla possibly gone or at the least a full time bench warmer replaced by Hudson (8 SB, 50 career SB) there is no doubt the team is slower than last year. This of course is not even including Thome, which the addition of only makes us more station to station.
So I guess my questions are, does acquiring Crede make us better? The defense improves, but we would obviously become even slower, since other then Span, Punto is our biggest base stealing threat. For that matter, would adding Valencia then hurt us both defensively and on the base paths? Does speed translate into wins? And lastly, were we really slower last year or was it just us being more conservative on the base paths?
I wish I could bust out with some stats proving this and that but alas, my inferior mind can not wrap it's head around it. I am hopeful someone with a more stat based mind can help shed some light on this for me. I know I for one certainly worry about it our speed, but hopefully it's just me worrying.
*I know stolen bases are probably not the best gage of team speed, but I'm sure it paints an accurate enough picture.
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Stolen bases are a bad gage
stealing bases require instinct and timing.
One of the slowest guys on the team led our team in SB’s, because he was really good at getting jumps
From the only TRUE North division
by thewild_viking_twins on Feb 8, 2010 4:30 PM EST reply actions
Span 23-33
Punto 16-19
Gomez 14-21
Casilla 11-11
Tolbert 6-8
Cuddyer 6-7
Mauer 4-5
Young 2-7
Cabrera 2-2
Kubel 1-2
Harris 0-2
(sigh)
Young 2-7
Man, that guy had a rotten year.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Oh haha
I was talking about my town league team :P
From the only TRUE North division
by thewild_viking_twins on Feb 10, 2010 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Still,
you can’t look at a total of 60 steals and honestly think this team is fast. Bad gauge or not.
by Michael in N.Cali on Feb 8, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
This is a slow team.
And it makes me hope the Twins keep Casilla around, simply for that fact. It would mean a bench without an OF (Harris, Casilla, Thome and a catcher), but Span and Punto would be the only two with plus speed. Nobody’s a Matt LeCroy out there, but Cuddyer, Morneau, Hardy, Hudson, Mauer, Harris…none of those guys are really quick.
Maybe we should sign Usain Bolt as a pinch runner
we could teach him to bunt too.
by ckb on Feb 8, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Percy Harvin
He could PR except for Sundays in Sept/Oct. Plus he can catch, 3B maybe?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 8, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Ummm no
My boy Percy is commited full time to the Vikings :)
I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Feb 8, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
How useful are pinch runners?
Really, I’m curious. I know they can occasionally be a help in a close, low-scoring game, but those times aren’t incredibly common.
I’d be especially dubious about the idea that a pinch runner is worth more than a defensive replacement for the outfield (assuming the Twins would use the backup outfield similarly to Gomez last year). Pridie is likely to get a chance or two replacing Delmon for the last inning or two of most games. There’s no guarantee that an optimal pinch-running situation will occur once a week.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Well said
I agree completely
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Feb 8, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Stolen bases seem to have a lesser value when you have as much power as this line up does. I think all on the middle of the order guys are capable of going first to third and can score from second on a single. Thome is the exception to this, but Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel, Hardy are all capable runners even if they aren’t base stealers.
I would like to see the Twins make a trade for a solid backup outfielder with speed by dealing some combo of Perkins, Casilla , Harris, Pridie. I don’t know who is available, but that is ideal to me. With Span, O-Dog and Punto getting on base we should have enough speed in the starting line up to steal when we have to, which hopefully won’t be necessary all that often.
+1
Baseball America ranked the Minnesota Twins as the 7th best minor league Org. in Baseball !!!! - that is good news...
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 8, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. It's a slow team
But seeing the baseball fly everywhere when they smack the crap out of it will more than make up for the lack of speed with me.
by matty_b on Feb 8, 2010 5:06 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Before we got Orlando Hudson !!! yeah I was saying the same thing!
Now ? though ?
no way many teams would love to have the speed of Denard and Orlando at the top 2 in our order….
Baseball America ranked the Minnesota Twins as the 7th best minor league Org. in Baseball !!!! - that is good news...
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 8, 2010 5:21 PM EST reply actions
Speed.....
Well, Orlando, I believe, hits more doubles than not.
Speed is not necessarily stealing a base, but going from first to third, or second to home.
I think we may have a better chance of advacing a runner without Casilla or Punto in the line-up.
Is it better to have mroe stolen bases, or more homers. I think the Twins will hit quite a few more homers. Throw in a Crede, and you may have even more!
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
'87-89 teams were S-L-O-W
Span>> Gladden +2
Knoblauch>Gladden -1
Puckett>Mauer -1
Morneau>>>Hrbek +3
Mack>Cuddyer -1
Kubel>Bush +1
Hardy>>Gaetti +2
Young>>>>Laudner +4
Gagne>Punto -1
Totals 2010 team +7
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
The Early 80's were even worse.
1985 = 68
1984 = 39
1983 = 44
1982 = 38
Now that is really slow!
by Michael in N.Cali on Feb 8, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
Oops
I meant Hudson for Gladden batting second
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
When you have a fast catcher and a fast first and third baseman (relatively speaking) it helps
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
If Delmon has really lost 30lbs like they are saying he could end up stealing around 15-16 bases I would think. He actually was pretty quick before he started packing on the lbs the last couple years.
CHONE has him stealing 10 bases this yr,
compared to just 2 last yr.
by Michael in N.Cali on Feb 8, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Mauer
How can you consider the catcher slow? lol No catchers are really that fast, but Mauer is one of the faster catchers in baseball. Mauer could probably steal more bases, but you usually don’t send your catcher because it’s such a demanding defense position and it leaves more possibility for injury.
Mauer is the fastest catcher in the league
And one of the best base runners (first to third, second to home), as well
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Yeah, but he plays in the other league
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
This is a conspiracy...
…to get inside Ozzie’s head. No more piranas, they are gone! It should take him over half the season to come up with something new to complain about regarding the Twins!
Hahaha...
The piranhas bit didn’t really work last year, but he stuck with it. I guess maybe he focused a little more on the curse of the Dome? Can’t wait to hear his excuse this year…
Ahhhh, baseball! I’m so ready for the season to start!!
"They’re going to go from piranhas to sardines. A prediction is a prediction."-Ozzie Guillen
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 8, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
Not as fast as GoGo's
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Speed v. Power
I think that World Series winners generally tend to have more power than speed. The last 3 winners at least (Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies) were teams that could hit the long ball with regularity. The White Sox were a lineup filled with mostly slow-footed power hitters a few years ago too. I don’t think any of those teams would be considered “fast” so maybe speed can be sacrificed at the expense of power.
Great
Yet another year where I break all the records in 2K except the stolen base one. God it was difficult enough even with Gomez on our team. Shucks
I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Feb 8, 2010 8:53 PM EST reply actions
First line should read
Another year of 2K where I break all the records excepth the stolen base one.
I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Feb 8, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions

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