Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Ten Worst Swings Of The 2011 Season

Is this the slowest Twins team in recent memory?

 

This is my first fanpost, so hopefully I've followed the rules and not embarrassed myself to much.  Here goes.

Is anyone else concerned with how slow this team has become?  I had not even thought about it until this morning when I read this article over at Bleacher Report, where Brandon Erickson suggests getting Crede to improve our still glaring hole at 3rd base.

After doing a little bit of research I discovered we are on pace to have the slowest* Twins team in my recent memory (I was only 4yrs old in 1984 so it doesn't count).   Last year as many of you probably can remember we had a grand total of 85 stolen bases, which is our lowest total since 2002 when we had 79.  After looking at the total amount of stolen bases (last year) per player on our starting roster this year, we are looking at 60 stolen bases!  Which is actually what CHONE projects for us also this year (from the starting lineup).  The last time we stole so few of bases was 1985 when we stole 68.  Also, the 60 stolen bases is factoring in that Punto will get 392 AB (which is up from last yr where he had 359 AB).  I know Punto has his faults, but subtract him from the lineup and we are hands down the slowest team on the base paths in the majors.

The stolen base leaders on our team last year were:

Span - 23

Punto - 16

Gomez - 14

Casilla - 11

So with Gomez now gone, replaced by Hardy (who has a total of 5 career SB) and with Casilla possibly gone or at the least a full time bench warmer replaced by Hudson (8 SB, 50 career SB) there is no doubt the team is slower than last year.  This of course is not even including Thome, which the addition of only makes us more station to station.

So I guess my questions are, does acquiring Crede make us better?  The defense improves, but we would obviously become even slower, since other then Span, Punto is our biggest base stealing threat.  For that matter, would adding Valencia then hurt us both defensively and on the base paths?  Does speed translate into wins?  And lastly, were we really slower last year or was it just us being more conservative on the base paths? 

I wish I could bust out with some stats proving this and that but alas, my inferior mind can not wrap it's head around it.  I am hopeful someone with a more stat based mind can help shed some light on this for me.   I know I for one certainly worry about it our speed, but hopefully it's just me worrying.

 

*I know stolen bases are probably not the best gage of team speed, but I'm sure it paints an accurate enough picture.


Comment 44 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Stolen bases are a bad gage

stealing bases require instinct and timing.
One of the slowest guys on the team led our team in SB’s, because he was really good at getting jumps

From the only TRUE North division

by thewild_viking_twins on Feb 8, 2010 4:30 PM EST reply actions  

Span 23-33

Punto 16-19
Gomez 14-21
Casilla 11-11
Tolbert 6-8
Cuddyer 6-7
Mauer 4-5
Young 2-7
Cabrera 2-2
Kubel 1-2
Harris 0-2

by benhertz on Feb 8, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions  

(sigh)
Young 2-7

Man, that guy had a rotten year.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Feb 8, 2010 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh haha

I was talking about my town league team :P

From the only TRUE North division

by thewild_viking_twins on Feb 10, 2010 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Still,

you can’t look at a total of 60 steals and honestly think this team is fast. Bad gauge or not.

by Michael in N.Cali on Feb 8, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a slow team.

And it makes me hope the Twins keep Casilla around, simply for that fact. It would mean a bench without an OF (Harris, Casilla, Thome and a catcher), but Span and Punto would be the only two with plus speed. Nobody’s a Matt LeCroy out there, but Cuddyer, Morneau, Hardy, Hudson, Mauer, Harris…none of those guys are really quick.

by Jesse on Feb 8, 2010 4:37 PM EST reply actions  

Percy Harvin

He could PR except for Sundays in Sept/Oct. Plus he can catch, 3B maybe?

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 8, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Ummm no

My boy Percy is commited full time to the Vikings :)

I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.

by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Feb 8, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

How useful are pinch runners?

Really, I’m curious. I know they can occasionally be a help in a close, low-scoring game, but those times aren’t incredibly common.

I’d be especially dubious about the idea that a pinch runner is worth more than a defensive replacement for the outfield (assuming the Twins would use the backup outfield similarly to Gomez last year). Pridie is likely to get a chance or two replacing Delmon for the last inning or two of most games. There’s no guarantee that an optimal pinch-running situation will occur once a week.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Feb 8, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Well said

I agree completely

"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"

by Steven Ellingson on Feb 8, 2010 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Stolen bases seem to have a lesser value when you have as much power as this line up does. I think all on the middle of the order guys are capable of going first to third and can score from second on a single. Thome is the exception to this, but Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel, Hardy are all capable runners even if they aren’t base stealers.

I would like to see the Twins make a trade for a solid backup outfielder with speed by dealing some combo of Perkins, Casilla , Harris, Pridie. I don’t know who is available, but that is ideal to me. With Span, O-Dog and Punto getting on base we should have enough speed in the starting line up to steal when we have to, which hopefully won’t be necessary all that often.

by PHATJ1111 on Feb 8, 2010 5:05 PM EST reply actions  

+1

Baseball America ranked the Minnesota Twins as the 7th best minor league Org. in Baseball !!!! - that is good news...

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 8, 2010 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. It's a slow team

But seeing the baseball fly everywhere when they smack the crap out of it will more than make up for the lack of speed with me.

by matty_b on Feb 8, 2010 5:06 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Before we got Orlando Hudson !!! yeah I was saying the same thing!

Now ? though ?

no way many teams would love to have the speed of Denard and Orlando at the top 2 in our order….

Baseball America ranked the Minnesota Twins as the 7th best minor league Org. in Baseball !!!! - that is good news...

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 8, 2010 5:21 PM EST reply actions  

Speed.....

Well, Orlando, I believe, hits more doubles than not.

Speed is not necessarily stealing a base, but going from first to third, or second to home.

I think we may have a better chance of advacing a runner without Casilla or Punto in the line-up.

Is it better to have mroe stolen bases, or more homers. I think the Twins will hit quite a few more homers. Throw in a Crede, and you may have even more!

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Feb 8, 2010 5:24 PM EST reply actions  

'87-89 teams were S-L-O-W

Span>> Gladden +2
Knoblauch>Gladden -1
Puckett>Mauer -1
Morneau>>>Hrbek +3
Mack>Cuddyer -1
Kubel>Bush +1
Hardy>>Gaetti +2
Young>>>>Laudner +4
Gagne>Punto -1

Totals 2010 team +7

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2010 5:24 PM EST reply actions  

MACK

O I used to be such a fan. And Harper you forgot Harper.

by Joshua P on Feb 8, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Oops

I meant Hudson for Gladden batting second

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2010 5:24 PM EST reply actions  

When you have a fast catcher and a fast first and third baseman (relatively speaking) it helps

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2010 5:25 PM EST reply actions  

If Delmon has really lost 30lbs like they are saying he could end up stealing around 15-16 bases I would think. He actually was pretty quick before he started packing on the lbs the last couple years.

by dyoung21 on Feb 8, 2010 5:36 PM EST reply actions  

Thats nice, I’m going off he stole 14 for us his first year in Minnesota, and stole 75 in 3 seasons in the Minors. If he really lost 30lbs this off season, and worked as hard as everyone is saying he will steal 10 by the all-star break.

by dyoung21 on Feb 8, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Mauer

How can you consider the catcher slow? lol No catchers are really that fast, but Mauer is one of the faster catchers in baseball. Mauer could probably steal more bases, but you usually don’t send your catcher because it’s such a demanding defense position and it leaves more possibility for injury.

by dyoung21 on Feb 8, 2010 5:39 PM EST reply actions  

Never said you did, I was saying it becuase in some replys above Mauer was being thrown in with the slow guys.

by dyoung21 on Feb 8, 2010 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Mauer is the fastest catcher in the league

And one of the best base runners (first to third, second to home), as well

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2010 9:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but he plays in the other league

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2010 11:45 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a conspiracy...

…to get inside Ozzie’s head. No more piranas, they are gone! It should take him over half the season to come up with something new to complain about regarding the Twins!

by roger13 on Feb 8, 2010 5:50 PM EST reply actions  

Hahaha...

The piranhas bit didn’t really work last year, but he stuck with it. I guess maybe he focused a little more on the curse of the Dome? Can’t wait to hear his excuse this year…

Ahhhh, baseball! I’m so ready for the season to start!!

by dctwin on Feb 8, 2010 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

"They’re going to go from piranhas to sardines. A prediction is a prediction."-Ozzie Guillen

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 8, 2010 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Piranhas to softball team ...

How fast does your home run trot have to be???? ;)

by BD57 on Feb 11, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Not as fast as GoGo's

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 11, 2010 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Speed v. Power

I think that World Series winners generally tend to have more power than speed. The last 3 winners at least (Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies) were teams that could hit the long ball with regularity. The White Sox were a lineup filled with mostly slow-footed power hitters a few years ago too. I don’t think any of those teams would be considered “fast” so maybe speed can be sacrificed at the expense of power.

by Sheldon on Feb 8, 2010 6:56 PM EST reply actions  

Great

Yet another year where I break all the records in 2K except the stolen base one. God it was difficult enough even with Gomez on our team. Shucks

I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.

by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Feb 8, 2010 8:53 PM EST reply actions  

First line should read

Another year of 2K where I break all the records excepth the stolen base one.

I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.

by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Feb 8, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

TT is an SB Nation blog of, by and for the fans. We strive to be the best Minnesota Twins blog by providing quality content and analysis, as well as daily news and notes on the team. We hope you'll make Twinkie Town your home for all things Twins!

Twinkie Town On Twitter


Editor-In-Chief

Twinkietown_small Jesse

Senior Writer

Small Bobomojo

Hrbek_small Jon Marthaler

The_jet_small cmathewson

Gladdentwins_small Adam Peterson

Hosken_powell_autograph_small RandBall's Stu

Twins_woo_small Steve Adams

W00t__2__small brandonwarne52

Special Contributor

Small roger13

Untitled_small Trevour

Chairmanmauer_small fischean