Lowell at the hot corner?
The Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo speculates that if the Sox decide to dump Lowell (and pick up most of his salary), he could end up on the Twins. As long as he is cheap, I'm not against this myself.
almost 2 years ago
Span Man
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I can't say I would endorse this move
Lowell has lost any mobility he had.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 1, 2010 12:18 PM EST reply actions
Lowell for Punto straight up
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
With one proviso
Boston pays Lowell’s salary and the Twins pay Punto’s salary.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Shockingly, and I think this is the first time I ever said something like this
But I would rather have Punto. I have a feeling that Lowell is D-U-N Dun.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 1, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
You may be right
It’s the only deal that makes sense, though. If the Red Sox want to dump payroll and the Twins can’t take on any payroll, the only kind of swap that makes any sense is one that sends payroll their way.
Personally, I might prefer Harris to Lowell. And I’d like to see Valencia before September. So I don’t want a trade like this.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
If this is true
I ask the question, why did the Twins not re-sign Crede? Lowell probably has a better shot at playing the whole season, but I prefer Crede’s glove to Lowell’s glove, and Lowell’s bat is only a slight improvement over Crede’s. I suppose Lowell could back Morneau up at first base too…
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Crede's health problems are chronic
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
This
To pull the reason from 33MorneauMVP’s initial response,
Lowell probably has a better shot at playing the whole season
That may be the understatement of the year.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
We can't afford to have nagging injuries
with Thome taking up a bench spot. Its fine if someone goes on the DL and we can bring someone up, but having a guy who needs days off a lot will put a lot of strain on the team.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Mar 1, 2010 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
Possible
This is definitely a possibility that some have mentioned, and it has some good upside, but the Twins would have to be willing to cut bait pretty quickly on Lowell. Obviously Lowell would improve the lineup, even in his age decline, especially against lefties, whom he hits particularly well, but Lowell was an obelisk at third base last year with a UZR/150 around -15. Of course, the previous season he was a night-and-day +15. That seems like a dramatic decline, even at his age, so I wonder how much wasn’t just variation. if he could get back even close to average at third, essentially a little below splitting the difference of his last two years, he could have very good value. If he fields like last year again, he gives away most of his offensive value in the field.
Bottom line, i wouldn’t trade Perkins for Lowell even if the Red Sox paid most or all of his contract, unless maybe it was 3 days from the end of spring training, Perkins was probably going to be released, and nobody else was really interested in Perk.
The Twins could always take a flier, but it’s a pretty high risk proposition.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Interesting note on Pavano/Mauer in that link, too
I know Pavano has had his issues, but he is really saying and doing the right things with the Twins. I hope he can put together a full season like his time with the Twins last season.
No thanks.
I really like Lowell, but now that we have Hudson on board with Punto and Harris splitting 3rd, I think we are a little crammed at the moment. If Lowell was brought it, we would have to deal one of Punto or Harris. Also, I feel like we’d be turning ourselves into the White Sox with a bunch of slow mashers. With the exception of Span, I bet a fleet of octogenarians racing to catch Wheel of Fortune could outrun that lineup.
Span
Hudson
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddyer
Kubel
Lowell
Hardy
Young
Throw in Thome and remove Young and it gets even worse!
by TheBlackFreighter on Mar 1, 2010 2:34 PM EST reply actions
I agree
as much as it pains me to say this i think that the Twins should stick with Punto at third. Right now this is the least athletic (read fast) team teh Twins have put out in a long time. Through Lowell in and you may have one of the slowest teams in the AL. Remember a balanced attack is every bit as important as anything. At least with Punto there would be speed at the top and bottom of the order.
I hope you mean
bottom of the order, now way punto should be batting ahead of mauer.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Mar 2, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
He means
He means Punto gives speed at the bottom, where Span and Hudson can move at the top. Of course, this doesn’t actually give us speed in two places, all our speed is still stuck right in a row that way…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
I don't get why speed/power balance is important.
I understand why you want L/R balance, so you can’t be shut down by same-handed pitchers. But what disadvantage is there to having lots of power and little speed (or vice-versa) as opposed to a balance?
Nothing
I would say there is no disadvantage, so long as you properly account for the advantages of both. In today’s game (though less and less so) speed is the undervalued and underapreciated asset and could be cheaper to add than power. But if it’s all things equal, it doesn’t matter either way.
Though there is something to be said for the strategic option of both, but a little bench speed is just as good there. Having a guy to come in and pinch run when you need to manufacture a run in the right kind of tight ballgame has value. But I think the Twins will have that option.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Didn't the White Sox try their hand at
A slow but lots of power team? It didn’t work out too well for them. Plus a slow team just doesn’t have the Twins-iness we have learned to enjoy…
Well, they did win game 163 two years ago
and the WS a couple more years back. So it’s not like they disprove the feasibility of a slugger-only team. Not that I’d ever point to the White Sox as role models for anything, except maybe for turning your manager into the #1 vehicle for fan entertainment.
Sonuva Jehovas Witness!!!
The White Sox won 163 games two years ago!?!?!!??
Did Nick Punto happen to hit for 5 consecutive homeruns each game too? :)
I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Mar 1, 2010 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
Ohhhh game 163
Misread that and thought it said 163 games. Sorry man
I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Mar 2, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I thought they won the WS when they started playing Twins baseball?
or is my memory going? It could be for sure. Nice thing about that gm 163 loss is that the Twins now have the guy that sent us home packing.
But
But slugger teams have the Yankee-ness THEY’VE learned to enjoy.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
because the season is 162 games long.
and power is not always dependable way to score runs consistently, nor is speed always a dependable way to score runs consistently. IMO a balance of both tends to even out the ebbs and flows of the season.
Don't think
I don’t think there’s really any guarantee that your speed guys will get going when your power guys are struggling, and vice versa (though there could be something to say for speed guys going out and running a little bit to get the team and power bats fired up and out of a funk, but that’s what Span is for). Ie, I don’t know if this kind of diversification actually raises consistency.
Except for the value of having speed guys for those situations, which I’ve already said I think we’ll have.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Lowell would be
another 2 monther and cut. Plus you’d need to drop another off the 40 man roster. If he could DH you would have to lose another back-up that could play the field,(Casilla). If we could make a trade to reduce the 40man roster, I could go for that.
Why another infielder?
Given that there’s no chance Lowell plays a full season, and a high chance that he plays far less, it’s unlikely that he’d (overall package) provide that much more value than Punto’s defense (and weak, but hopefully good even year bat) at third.
They need to go find a fleet, decent hitting reserve OF, and not worry about using a roster spot on an infielder with no position.
they have the outfielders
Jacque and Jimerson…
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Both of whom are on minor league deals for a reason
What’s Jacque Jones going to be like after a year off following a .147/.239/.207 line? Plus, his defense was trending downward before the year off. Jimerson has 9 MLB ABs and a so-so AAA track record.
Plus, if Boston is picking up most of the $12M on Lowell’s contract, they’re going to expect a decent prospect back. It’s not worth the minor upgrade from Harris/Punto to Lowell when there’s a pressing need for a reliable 4th OF who can provide both good defense and defensive flexibility.
Boston
just wants Lowell off that team. I could see the Twins shipping Punto/Harris/Tolbert/Casilla over to Boston for Lowell. The Red Sox have said that they will pay the contract because otherwise they know they wont be able to get rid of him.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Texas Deal
Max Ramirez was worth more than any of those four Twins, and would’ve been a decent piece for Boston to get back. Given that they already have Bill Hall, none of the first three make sense. Casilla, if they believe in potential and fading youth, might do it, but they don’t need a second baseman or another Jed Lowrie-type.
There’s no doubt Lowell will get moved, but Boston will get something for him. The way the Twins’ roster is currently constructed, a player like Lowell isn’t a big improvement. And since money doesn’t necessarily last forever, even if Lowell is free it doesn’t make sense for the Twins to give up a minor leaguer who could potentially cheap bench player/reliever down the road.
Lowell is by far the better hitter, but if they were interested in a veteran third baseman, they’d be better off trying to bring Crede back on a minor league deal.
I'd consider it
but the Red Sox better be footing the bill
I'm not opposed to Lowell as a player.
It’s everything else that would go into a deal for him that would matter to me. But my feel is that the Twins would have to pay too much to get him, and he’s not an elite player anymore. Plus, the third base situation with Valencia and the 4000 infielders this team has already, it just seems like a bit too much.
But why?
The Twins already have one of the best clubhouses in the league.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
You can never have too much gritty getafteritude
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Solution
Clone Punto!
Just kidding; we know that they already did that and named the clone “Matt Tolbert”.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Yes
I think it involved Punto sliding head first into, um, something. And nine months later…. out popped Tolbert.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
sliding head first
“
into, um, something.”
ha, ha, classic.
by montanatwinsfan on Mar 2, 2010 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Why not Casilla for Lowell?
With the Sox covering most of Lowell’s salary. If you look at the last 3 or 4 years instead of just 2009, there’s a ton to like about Lowell. Obviously at his age you don’t know what exactly what you’re going to get, but even in a miserable down year last year Lowell outplayed Harris+Punto. Those two would be nice bench players, but give me Lowell as my starter.
That would work if Boston doesn't care about payroll
But a payroll dump means the Twins need to pick up some payroll. Based on Jesse’s interview with RA, the Twins are already $5 million over budget, for which they had to get Big Jim’s approval.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I'd take on 3-4 million or so.
Not that it’s my money…
I thought he was due to make like $11 million this year.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
"If the Sox are willing to pay most of the $12 million salary, the Twins could be a major suitor."
From the article. No one wants him for his full salary.
OK
Now I get it.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Maybe 3 years ago
But right now I feel like with the lineup we have, its ok to have Punto or Harris at the bottom. I would rather keep Punto at 9th where he can draw walks for for the big guys up front, than sacrifice a decent prospect and cut someone from the 40 man just to get a little more power into an already pretty powerful lineup. We need speed, and at least Punto can do that if he reads signs correctly ;)
Makes sense
Defense plus gettingafteritness plus grittihood plus gettingyouruniformditiness gives the clear advantage to Punto.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
We need Punto's speed in the #9 hole
WIth Lowell in the lineup
we have speed with Span and Hudson at 1 and 2 and thats it…
hitters 3 through 9 have average speed to NO speed….
Lets go get Adrian Gonzalez..... how do you say holy shit! - ~en espanol ?
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Mar 1, 2010 5:21 PM EST reply actions
Punto and his baserunning
ALDS…
This team is not going to be good at the speed/defense portion of the game. The Twins are definitely the anti-Seattle.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
"speed/defense"
maybe not the speed, but their defense should be really good! Adding Hardy and Hudson vastly improves their defense…the only area where defense will be a question mark will be in the outfield. However, Delmon now might become a better outfielder due to losing weight and not having to deal with the Metrodome roof/lights.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Defense
Hudson will probably not be above average defensively at his age. The left side sets up solid with hardy and Punto. Mauer is obviously good. Morneau is fine. The outfield is going to be somewhere between catastrophically bad and horrible, which is pretty bad hen you consider we have a fly ball heavy staff.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
The Twins could have one of the best infield defenses in the league.
Punto and Hardy are both elite defenders, and Hudson is also great. Morneau and Mauer are also both above-average.
You’re right, though. On most days the outfield defense will be very, very bad.
Formerly known as "Andersklasen."
Check out the best Twins' blog on the web: TwinsTarget.com.
The Twins' outfield defense will be middle of the league
I think Span will be much better when he plays in center everyday instead of moving around so much. I have some hope that Delmon will improve when he doesn’t have to deal with the Dome’s lights. He played much better on the road last year. And Cuddy isn’t as bad as his numbers. UZR penalized him for balls off the baggie that couldn’t be caught.
My eyes have always doubted the UZR numbers for Cuddyer, and now we know why. Even some of the best right fielders in Twins history have struggled from a UZR perspective in right field in the Dome. Jacque Jones went from a 14.9 UZR/150 in 2002 as the primary left fielder to a 16.6 UZR/150 in 2003 as the primary right fielder. He was the same guy-he went from 6 SBs in 2002 to 13 in 2003—he just got seriously penalized by the baggie.
I wouldn’t say the Twins are an elite defensive team in the outfield or anything. But they will be better than three of the teams in their own division. I rank them 8th in the league behind Seattle, New York, Boston, Tampa, Cleveland, Oakland, and Baltimore, in that order.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Span
Span showing the improvement you hope for, which is certainly a realistic possibility, would go a very long way towards improving our defense. it would remove it as a concern to me, honestly.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Delmon/Kubel
You wouldn’t be concerned about balls hit to short or deep left? I didn’t watch all 163 games, but I saw enough to know that it’s going to take more than Delmon losing 20 pounds to figure out how to navigate his way to liners and fly balls. It wasn’t just balls lost in dome lights that was Delmon’s problem.
Delmons' no great fielder
But he lost a LOT of balls in those lights. Most of the time, he recovered. Some of the time he didn’t. BTW, the toughest balls to judge in those lights are the low liners.
He’s not the only guy who has struggled over there. Only three everyday left fielders in my memory have thrived: Gladden, Mack and Jones. Believe it or not, Delmon’s actually better over there than some regular left fielders in Twins history. Marty Cordova filled a 10 minute low-light real on Kare 11 after he left the organization. It had at least 100 plays he should have made but did not in his 5-year career with the Twins.
It has played havoc on a lot of visiting players as well. Think about Raburn’s misadventures out there in Game 163.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Wow I can't believe
you guys are ripping the outfield like that. Brodcasters are always praising the Arms in our outfield. Span and Kuddy are right up there for there positions and Delmon’s arm is better then any LF’s. Yes he’s a little slow. Does anyone think Kuble is a better LF’er and if so why? Also just to see what others think who’s outfield is the best — please name players. Boston? Yanks, Angels?
by b1 on Mar 2, 2010 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
Angels have Spiderman
Yanks have Granderson
Bo-Soz have Ellsbury.
Span>Granderson
Torii>Span
Ellsbury>Span
Torii>Ellsbury
I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Mar 2, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
Mariners have Gutierrez
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
I don't rate Torii as highly as you
He’s still very good, but he’s not as quick as he was when he earned that nickname. I’d say he’s on par with Span in terms of range at this point, with a much stronger and more accurate arm. I rate Span about at Granderson’s level, maybe a little above. I rate Gutierrez, Sizemore, Upton, and Adam Jones ahead of them. I might rate Ellsbury higher, but I believe the Red Sox will move Ellsbury to left and put Cameron in center. That is one great outfield tandem, almost as good as Gutierrez and Ichiro.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Range > Arm
The arms in the outfield are indeed really good (Delmon was among the league leaders in outfield assists in Tampa, and Cuddyer led the league pretty recently; I don’t really know about Span). Arms, though, are way less important in the outfield than range – balls hit to the gap come more often than opportunities to gun someone down.
I’d note that my “less important” comment is based partially on personal experience and partially on the opinions of folks who attempt to objectively measure fielding – range is much more a factor than arm. I suppose that could be a factor of sample size (there simply aren’t many times when an outfielder has a chance to pick up an assist, making it difficult to measure), but even then, the fact that there are small sample sizes means that the skill likely isn’t as useful, since there’s not as much opportunity to use it.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Mar 3, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
plus, a strong arm is not going to help you much if that arm is erratic. Also, if the fielder makes a mental mistake like trying to gun the runner out at home with three feet left to go and allowing the runner on first to move up to second base. Or just plain old missing the cutoff man. Three things can ruin a players arm. Arm strength is one of the worst things to measure an outfielder by.
Range, Knowledge of Situations, Speed, hitting the cutoff man – all rank ahead of arm strength.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Opportunity
A guy might get three opportunities to show off his range in a game and one opportunity to show off his arm.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I like this as a pick up. Lowell was Thomas Hayden Church’s character name in the tv show ‘Wings’ and he rocks. Need I say more……
MPR, Lefsa, 3M, Sun Country Airlines, Grumpy Old Men movies, Joe Mauer. What a blessed state!
by By Allen's Mullet on Mar 1, 2010 6:42 PM EST reply actions
+1
If he comes here, he’ll just be Lowell. No Mike.
Kouzmanoff
How’s Kouz for Perkins and Harris looking now? He signed for $3M. Not sure how much more than Perk they were looking for but at this point Harris wouldve been an easy add. If Kouz works out, Valencia is good trade bait, if not then Danny’s a Twin very soon. Still sore about that whiff. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts…
Anyway, we need speed and an outfield option. Lowell is neither.
by z-squad on Mar 1, 2010 9:55 PM EST via mobile reply actions
... without a bat
… or none of the above, at his age.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
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