Is the unimaginable becoming imaginable?
by SouthSotaPop on Mar 14, 2010 4:31 AM EST
61 comments
As a huge Twins fan my whole life, I felt privileged to see Kirby resign with Minnesota, and really felt betrayed when Hunter chose to go elsewhere. I was becoming more ok with losing him, after witnessing the next big thing, and that was Joe Mauer. Sure I'd seen him while Hunter was here, but after the last two seasons, who doesn't want to continually see this guy play on your team. There is no way to defensively scheme for him. You cheat one way, he rips it the other. You play close, he drives it to the wall. You pitch it high, he drives it over, low he hits the gap. The man can hit just about any pitch, anywhere, and has been a staple to the Twins lineup. All that seems to be unraveling faster than a sweater with a loose thread in a house full of cats. After two weeks of Spring Training, we are still without a contract for Might Joe, and it appears talks have stalled. Some people are still quite optimistic, but can anyone really say that they are feeling good about it right now? One source has said that Mauer and co. has turned down a 22 mil. 8 year deal. Supposedly he wants 25 mil. That's all well and good, but if you want your money now, you are going to lose a few dollars.
I don't want to paint Joe as the bad guy, he's the best player in baseball. He's going to make that money next year if he walks, but if it isn't and never has been about money, what is that extra three? If it's never been about money, why is that the thing preventing the deal from being signed. Joe Mauer is a cornerstone for this team, but if we go into opening day without a signed and sealed contract, we are already too late. We need to be exploring trade options now, in case something doesn't happen. I believe Ramos is ready enough to be a starter at catcher, and Bueterra could be a backup I suppose until Morales gets back, and of course Joe is going to garner a lot of value from a team, so we would make good on an investment, but let's face it. Even if we get five Albert Pujols caliber bats to play second, third, short, right field, left field, wherever, are we really going to feel satisfied? No Joe Mauer for the next eight years. That would be upsetting to everyone. Hockey, Viking's chokes in big games, snow, and Joe Mauer, subtract the latter and we have nothing but Cause for Depression, and a little bit of fighting. Let's hope some sort of miracle happens, but I'm losing hope. Let's start to explore who has what available.
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I'm afraid Joe and his agent are letting things go to their heads a little bit.
Let’s say best-case scenario: Joe repeats 2009 in 2010, no injuries, and the Yanks and Sox fall over themselves to sign him for 10 years at 25 (despite the fact that he’s put another year at catcher on his body and no catcher’s ever signed for anything close to this). If the Twins offered 8 years at 22, he’s up 75 million or so.
So that’s nice for him, but ponder for a minute the downside. Even if he just reverts to his not-quite-MVP career average next year, all of a sudden he looks like a “mere” 6/20 player, and he’s cost himself 55 million. If he has a bit of a down year—think 2007—then maybe you’re looking at 5/16, and he’s out a hundred mill.
Then you think about injuries. Bad injuries. The sorts of things that can happen to people who make their livings crouching under 235 lbs of pressure and blocking 90-mph baseballs.
Anyway, just sign Joe.
Agreed
I really don’t understand why Mauer has all the leverage in this. He has a fairly significant injury history as a young player and it most likely will continue once this contract goes into his 30-years. That is a big red flag for a catcher, because it probably tells us he’ll have to switch positions down the road. If he shreds his knee or fractures his wrist this year, he could lose a ton of money.
If what Souhan says is true and he has turned down $20 and 21 million, then I’m a bit perplexed as a fan. There is no way Boston or New York pays him $30 million a year. Media speculation has driven these numbers from $20 to 25 to 30 million during the last year. Mauer says he doesn’t want to be the highest paid player, but I question if that is the case if he’s holding out for more than $21 million. A contract with an average value of $21 million would put Mauer as the 9th highest paid player in the history of baseball and the only non-New York or Boston player. $21 million would dwarf Jorge Posada’s current $13.1 million. My guess is that Mauer is taking heat from the player’s union to settle for as close to $25 million as possible and that Shapiro is using Teixeira’s $22.5 million contract as a comparison (despite the dissimilarities of players).
When all this started, I assumed $20 million for 7-10 years would have been a shoe-in for Mauer… in fact, I thought $18 would have gotten it done for a catcher with injury flags playing for his home team. I think there is an obvious reason why Mauer has never wanted his contract laundry aired out to the public and that’s because he doesn’t want to be seen as a greedy villain… that is just the opposite of his Minnesota boy/hero image. If more details come out that he is turning down $20 million contracts that have a fair amount of length (7+ years), you will start seeing the fanbase turn against him.
I love Mauer and want him to be a Twin, but if he’s holding out for $25 million a year, it’s obvious he sees Boston and New York as more logical destinations. And can you imagine if he did turn down the Twins at $21 million and signed with Boston for $25 million. The vitriol and hatred he’d see as a traitor every time he came “home” would be worse than Knoblauch. Unless his crew is moving with him, that issue has not been discussed and it should play a huge role into his thought process.
by TheBlackFreighter on Mar 14, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Major Reason
There is a major reason why contract talks are secret. It is simply a matter of noting that all talks are like this and the only reason why we hear of players talking with another team is because they visit their facilities. Almost every undecided free agent player does that in any sport including baseball. Heck, we likely did this when it came time to select a college if we went.
I don't know what to believe
But I take the Twins confidence to mean something. I think it’s just a question of timing. They’ll announce the new contract in Target Field on April 3.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I don't think the Twins...
would have signed both Blackburn and Span if they didn’t have the framework of a contract for Mauer in the books. Signing stalwarts like Nick and Denard, with Mauer sucking up another 20% of the salary budget gives the Twins cost certainty with future deals for Slowey, Liriano, Cuddyer, Kubel and/or free agents so that they remain competitive over the next dozen seasons.
by TheBlackFreighter on Mar 14, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
This was said around
-Xmas
-TwinsFest
-Pitchers and Catchers
So now it’s definitely happening on 4/3? I hope you’re right.
It was promised that Mauer would sign by Christmas
I refuse to take down my Christmas tree until he signs with the Twins!
J/K! although my 4 year old might not have complained. I’m picking Armed Forces Day as the new holiday that Mauer will sign on as a gift to us all…
If the Twins are offering $21M/year and Mauer wants $25M/year, I cannot see anyway they don’t bridge that gap. It’s a rounding error. It’s Nick Punto’s salary. Just avoiding the bad press is probably worth that much.
hyperbole
Agreed, it’s not nothing. But it’s only 4% of payroll now and in 8-10 years it’ll be much much less than that. Also, if the difference in negotiating posture is $4M, then they should be able to agree on something in the $22-23M/year range. I just cannot see how that’s worth taking a huge PR hit in the year they open a new stadium.
by Jon Kammerer on Mar 14, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
or 8 Livan Hernandezs, or 8 Rondel Bautistas, or 8 Mike Lambs
Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather they got a big discount, but I’d hate it even more if this thing blows up over less than $4M/year.
by Jon Kammerer on Mar 14, 2010 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
If we had another 5 million this year, we could've signed Jarrod Washburn!
…wait, that sort of makes your point.
I wouldn't do $25m per year
First, I want to acknowledge that I (and probably others in the blogosphere) don’t really have a lot concrete ways to figure out what a contract should be, so a lot of my framing of reasonableness comes from the arbtrary numbers thrown around in the newspaperes, here, mlbtraderumors, etc. But, my impressive doublethink abilities lead me to throw around my thoughts anyway, so here it goes.
If I was the Twins, I wouldn’t even consider giving Mauer $200 million (8 years $25 m per). It just looks like way to much risk, even if you think he could go down as one of the best players to ever play the game. He’s liabile to get injured tomorrow, and then the Twins are forced to play on 75% of the payroll they would otherwise have for a decade.
If you’re Mauer, and you don’t care about the money (remember we mean the difference between $150m and $200 million, not the difference between rich and not rich), then who cares what the players association says. You don’t owe other greedy players anything. This only impacts the Pujols and Hanley Ramirez’s of the world anyway, not the Puntos, etc.
If I’m the Twins, I would put a lot of pressure on him to keep the contract reasonable, and to have a lot of options. For instance, offer him a 5 year, $100 million contract. There will be 5 option years, at $15 million per year. Here’s the deal – if he hits 1500 PAs in his first 3 years, then years 5 and 6 get guaranteed. If he plays in the field for X number of innings (say 3500), then he gets an extra $5 m per year in those options. If he plays those innings at catcher, then he gets ANOTHER $5 million per year. Repeat this deal such that performance in years 4 and 5 guarantee 7-8, and 6-7 guarantee 9-10.
Here’s the kicker – if the options don’t automatically kick in, then the Twins can still choose to take the option. If they decline, the buyout is $5 million per year – however, that $5 million per year gets them a team service contract (like he’ll coach, and do promotional marketing, work in the front office, or whatever). If he declines that contract, then he is free to do whatever he wants. This means he still has protection in those later years, of at least $5 million per year, and will stay with the Twins, unless he thinks he can get more money to go play for someone else, and the Twins just don’t think he’s worth it.
As a Twins fan, I hope he’s with the team for 10 years, and goes down as a top player of all time. However, I don’t think it is worth it for the Twins to commit $200 million to a single player, no matter who they are. For the twins to stay competitive every year, they need to have above average talent at below average cost. They are locking up lots of above average young players for a few extra years for this purpose. They have good prospects, who will come up and be cheap as well, but they won’t be able to keep the Spans, Hicks, Sloweys of the world around, if they have $40m/year committed to a couple of stars (Mauer/Morneau, for example).
by snolls on Mar 14, 2010 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
He'll re-sign with the Twins
Though I am getting annoyed with how long this is taking…..
Ski-U-Mah!
by CrazyCollegian on Mar 14, 2010 10:17 PM EDT reply actions
5 Albert Pujols!!!!
Honestly, I love Joe Mauer as much as the next guy (In a straight I want you to be my favorite team’s catcher kinda way) but if we could get 5 Albert Pujols in return I’d forget about him as quickly as Boof Bonser.
That said, they’ll never get that for him. In complete honestly, if Joe Mauer wasn’t the hometown boy I think the Twins would be very smart to consider trading him. However, because of Joe Mauer being one of the top players in the game and being from Minnesota he has this extraordinary ability to generate revenue for his team. The only comparable revenue players might be someone like Derek Jeter in NY or . . . . or . . . I don’t know that might be the only player as popular in any market right now. That’s really the point, Mauer is much more than just the on-field superstar, he’s a local icon.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
That was more of an...
if we landed five prospects, and over their time with MN, considering most wouldn’t probably be resigned, and they all panned out to be Pujolsesque players. I agree that he’s an icon, but I would rather get something for him, than get a couple of draft picks that may or may not pan into anything more than a wasted pick. Sure there’s history of bad trades, but I think Mauer garners a big enough trade that we get at least one proven player.
by SouthSotaPop on Mar 15, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I laugh when...
Every time somebody claims a person that is holding out for $5 million more dollars when they could all ready be making $20 million is greedy. You all do realize the difference between $20 million and $25 million is 25%, right? Would you not work for a different company for a 25% increase in salary. Let’s say you make $80,000, that would mean you were offered a job for $100,000, would you turn that down?
Everybody here claiming an extra $5 million is greedy is like the guy making $15,000 a year telling you, you’re greedy for leaving the company for an extra $20,000. Are you greedy? No. Your lifestyles are different than the guy making $15,000…just like the lifestyles of the millionaires are different that yours. What is big money for the guy living at the poverty level isn’t as big for you who is making $80,000.
And let’s not forget. No matter how diehard of a Twins fan you are, the chances (strictly from an odds perspective) are better to win the World Series with the Red Sox or Yankees than it is with the Twins. Maybe that’s a driving factor as well.
I don't think that's it
I don’t blame Mauer for getting whatever money he can get, but if he’s holding out for 25/year for 7+ years, I think he’s being greedy in the sense that he’s trying to get more than he is likely to get.
If he just wants to win the most baseball games by signing on with the best team, then I DO think he’s greedy. Talk about insecure.
But...
How can you hate a guy that wants to win baseball games and the World Series? Isn’t that the ultimate goal of athletes playing the game? I’d hate a guy less for signing with a team that gives them the best chance to win a World Series, rather than the guy that signs with a cellar team for $5 million more…
Easy
How can you hate a guy that wants to win baseball games and the World Series?
Signing with the league’s most dominant (and unlikely to be unseated, given baseball’s financial structure) team so you can win the World Series is like switching the difficulty in “Madden” from All-Pro to Rookie so you can win a Super Bowl. Why should we celebrate that?
I can kind of see the argument if he were on a team like the Pirates or Royals that is dismal for the foreseeable future, but the Twins have been a consistent contender for nearly a decade now, with a nucleus in place to continue that for years to come. I’d much rather he use the “I just wanted the best deal” justification than “I just want to win” – in the former, he’s being greedy but honest, while in the latter, he’s taking a subtle swipe at the Twins while also that he wants to take a shortcut to his “legacy” achievements.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Well...
I guess that’s were our differences are. I guess “signing a new contract” relative to me “signing a new contract” for my job. If I get paid more to go to a more prestigious and well-known marketing firm that is going to accomplish my goals, I’m doing it. Period. And I’m pretty sure anybody on this site would do it as well. I just think it’s funny, especially in baseball, that sites like this revolve around numbers, stats and subjective analysis yet as fans, we are still ruled by so-called home team discounts and home town loyalties and bias over “shortcuts to legacy achievements”.
I’m not trying to be argumentative (and I’m certainly not achieving that goal but disagreeing with everybody!) I’m just trying to understand why “certain rules” apply to athletes and not to people like you and me, while working, finding a new job or signing a new employment contract.
And maybe it’s something I’ll never understand. I just like the conversation that happens here on Twinkie Town. You all have a very good handle on baseball and I enjoy all of your opinions and analysis. Thanks.
Reader beware
There are readability and grammar issues in the post above this. Sorry. I sucked it up big time.
The difference between real life jobs...
and what athletes do. Obviously you switching between an entry level marketing firm, and a larger one is going to make a difference in not only what you achieve, but also how much money you make. However in baseball, Joe has achieved just as well, if not better in just about every aspect of the game, playing for a small market team. He has garnered the love of the hometown fans, to the extent that frankly, he could pull a tiger woods, or a love boat incident, and people would be like…“Oh Joe.” It’s not like he’s unable to accomplish anything with the twins, and I think management, and the Pohlads now have a grasp on what this team needs to do to turn the corner. To be quite honest, I don’t want to go through another Kirby Puckett incident, because I don’t think we’d be so lucky twice. He’s still going to go down as one of the best catchers to play the game, and just like the 89 Twins, anything can happen. I think the talent this year is as good as the 89 team, and I think we have a nucleous of players in the farm system that are capable of becoming very good ballplayers. Juan Portes for instance, has really impressed me this spring.
by SouthSotaPop on Mar 15, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
And that 1989 Team
Traded away Frank Viola for five players including one of the best closers of the 1990’s in Rick Auglaria though it should be noted that the trade established help for the Twins in 1991 while it led to the Mets having a horrible downturn that led to losing seasons in the early 1990’s.
With that said, I don’t think it would be unthinkable for the Twins to make an unsigned Joe Mauer trade bait. Besides, the likes of Boston, the Yankees, Mets, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Houston, the Cubs, the Angels, Dodgers, and San Francisco would pay a king’s ransom for three months worth of his services. Every team I listed could use his bat except for the Yankees, but Joe Mauer could go to the Yanks in a three way that sends Jorge Posada out of town.
As for the Dodgers, I realize that they didn’t do anything this offseason of note, but they will still be in contention at the all-star break and could be willing to deal for Mauer for another bat and to keep San Francisco from getting him first.
If I get paid more to go to a more prestigious and well-known marketing firm that is going to accomplish my goals, I’m doing it. Period. And I’m pretty sure anybody on this site would do it as well.
In my opinion I would leave off the guessing for the rest of us. I personally have left a job that paid me more but was driving me crazy for a better work enviroment. I also have a few friends who left the private sector for the promise of a government pension at a lower salary.
We all have to decide what’s best for us, I understand that but I would find it disappointing if Mauer left the Twins b/c another team offered more money. He has said money is not the issue so I’d like to believe him.
I don’t blame him for wanting to win a WS but I feel he can do that in MN. Now w/ TF the Twins have never had a better opportunity to match Organizational smarts with greater revenue to produce a champ.
I hope the Twins and Mauer can come to an agreement soon b/c once the season starts, I won’t have a lot of hope left.
I'm sorry
I didn’t mean to imply all of us would leave our current jobs for more money, which re-reading my statement, I did. Obviously money has a portion in our decision making but ultimately it’s what we each consider our primary goals to be the majority portion of decision making. Goals vary and like you said, many different people leave jobs for less money because of other factors. :-)
No sorry needed and I do understand your point.
I hope for Joe it won’t come down to money so we can all enjoy him being a life long Twin.
But TC Mooch’s point is still valid because a lot of people leave a job for more money only to find out that life was better on the other side. Also, people have left lower paying jobs for higher paying ones and it turned out to be a job they love. It could even a different position with the same organization. For example, a janitor is working at the local Super Wal-Mart and hates his current position. However, an auto mechanic quits his job and the janitor is offered a position as an auto mechanic for $2 more per hour and loves that job so much that the auto mechanic that quit is listed as fired because he didn’t report to work on time and a new janitor is hired.
My point is that it is a possible position change for Joe Mauer that could be holding up things.
Understood
I’m just trying to understand why "certain rules" apply to athletes and not to people like you and me, while working, finding a new job or signing a new employment contract.
I get what you’re saying, and I probably agree with you more than many folks here – I don’t fault athletes for taking advantage of their ability to get all the money that they can make. The fact of the matter, though, is that people have emotional investments in sports teams and, by extension, their players. No one would care if a couple guys leave Initech for a better job because no one cares about Initech (other than their stockholders, but publicly-traded companies generally have so many employees that it’s unlikely anyone would notice). I’m not saying that it’s at all rational, but right or wrong, that double standard will always be there.
If I get paid more to go to a more prestigious and well-known marketing firm that is going to accomplish my goals, I’m doing it. Period. And I’m pretty sure anybody on this site would do it as well.
You’re right – my employer has generally treated me well, but I have very little allegiance to them, and if I got a job offer with better pay, more interesting work, and better working conditions, I’d take it in a heartbeat.
That said, I stand by my belief that a player moving to an established winner because he “wants to win” cheapens the value of those accomplishments. Had the ‘03-’04 Lakers won the title, my opinion of Karl Malone wouldn’t have magically changed to that of a winner – he’d have gone from “a great player who chokes in big moments” to “a great player who chokes in big moments and rode Shaq and Kobe’s coattails to a cheap championship ring”. Yeah, it’s subjective, but so is the whole exercise of measuring a player’s legacy. The player’s right to do what he thinks is best for him does not somehow eliminate our right to think what we want to about those actions. If an athlete cares about how he will be perceived (which does have financial value – Milton Bradley isn’t exactly swimming in endorsement deals), he has to take into account how his actions will affect that perception.
I’d also argue that, if Mauer is at all savvy about this kind of thing, he should know that the differences in salary, living expenses, and immediate endorsements are not the only costs and benefits to consider. For example, if Kent Hrbek left for the Yankees in, say, 1986 instead of staying with the Twins (imagine that Donnie Baseball didn’t exist), does he have his own television show, multiple endorsement deals, and a restaurant named after him in a new stadium? I doubt it.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Stupid because the Yankees were cellar dwellers at the time
If Kent Hrbek left the Twins following the 1986 season, I don’t think he would have gone to the Yankees. It is likely possible that he would have signed with the Mets, Dodgers, or Red Sox.
Not the point
I picked the Yankees because they are the team that’s always bandied about in Mauer discussions, and it’s not like they were spendthrifts 20 years ago, either. I also don’t know whether Hrbek was a free agent in 1986 – it was a hypothetical, and I wasn’t exactly vying for historical accuracy. Go ahead and replace the Yankees with the Mets (and, I suppose, Mattingly with Keith Hernandez – Hrbek would’ve made those Seinfeld episodes far more awesome), if the analogy’s specifics are troubling you.
My point remains the same: By staying and excelling with his hometown team, Hrbek created financial opportunities for himself that he wouldn’t have had if he’d gone to a larger market, and that’s something that Mauer should be considering. In Minnesota, he was a lionized superstar; in New York (or LA, or wherever), he’d have been an above-average first baseman, lucky to be one of the half-dozen best guys on his team.
Say Hrbek did get a bigger deal to leave the Twins in the prime of his career – he goes from “hometown hero” to “another jerk who sold out his hometown for a big paycheck” in the eyes of fans. Fifteen years after his career was over, he’s not any sort of commodity in Minnesota (you’re not going to give a Minnesota fishing show to a guy from the Mets), and he never reached the level of star power in New York that he could have had in Minnesota, so he’s not exactly swimming in post-baseball endorsements there, either.
I realize that Mauer’s a bigger national star than Hrbek ever was. I also know that Mauer is a bigger star in Minnesota than he is nationally. He’s virtually guaranteed to always be the biggest star in Minnesota, even well after his career is over, and he’s very unlikely to reach that level of stardom or staying power in a place like New York.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
You never know...
The Yankees have their Ruth’s, Gehrig’s, Dimaggio’s and Mantles and its tough to compete against those guys.
But they also have their Paul O’Neill’s and Bernie Williams’. I wouldn’t underestimate the popularity of those types of guys. They might not name a stadium of a “cove” after them, but restaurants and local celebrity, sure.
Yankees finished 2nd in 1986
The wheels didn’t come off the franchise until 1989.
The Mets were happy with Keith Hernandez. Dodgers could have used him though…
… and I do believe the Red Sox would have been thrilled to get a new first baseman that offseason, too. ;-)
If the three Division format
Would have been in place in the 1980’s, The Yankees would have done better than you think. Yes they would have finished second, but they would have also won the Wild Card from 1984-1987 in a situation where the Twins would have failed to make the playoffs in 1987 with Detroit winning the AL Central, but we would have made the playoffs the next season. You have to remember that George Steinbrenner was a wild man in the 1980’s and players were avoiding the Yankees because he was hiring and firing managers at will and treating players like trash, a list that only begins to include Donnie Baseball and Dave Winfield. These actions helped to lead to Steinbrenner’s suspension as an owner. Finally, the Yankees of the late 1980’s and early 1990’s were bad because Steinbrenner kept trading away their best prospects. It was a bad situation.
So what was your point again?
Cellar dwellars in one post and Perennial contenders in the next.
Why am I replying again?
… I think we’re all anxious for actual games to start in a couple weeks. :-)
by DavidRF on Mar 19, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's the same rules for athletes and everyone
You are going to be most satisfied by doing excellent work and making an important difference. If you only think that can be done with the Yankees and Red Sox of the world, well, I think you’re missing something.
There are limits to the discount they can give
If he came in at $20 mil, I think the MLBPA would scream.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Unless they got 15 years, yeah
They can’t go below Teixeira, it just makes no sense whatsoever. They know the Yankees will pay more for Mauer than they did for Teixeira.
Agreed
but Teixeira was a gross overpay, and in a free agent market. Joe is claiming his money right now, and ensuring that he is paid even if he gets hurt. If he got hurt this year, his value would drop to 20 or below I feel, especially if he were to miss significant time. That would be three years that he had missed significant time due to injury. If he wants his money now he’s going to have to take a bit of a discount.
by SouthSotaPop on Mar 15, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
so what?
Mauer doesn’t owe anything to the MLBPA. It’s to him to decide what type of contract he wants, based on the factors that are important to him.
What, is everyone going to feel sorry for Pujols or Hanley or whomever if Mauer’s sets a precedent that makes their requests look unreasonable?
When has Joe...
Ever taken a discount though? He had the highest signing bonus when they signed him after the draft, he never took a discount on his first contract that extended him through this year, why does anyone think he will give a hometown discount now.
by SouthSotaPop on Mar 17, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
I remember the angst in the summer of 2001 when he held out for a record bonus. His dad insisted that he would go to Florida State before he took a hometown discount. He ended up signing, but the angst was similar to this.
When he signed his first long-term deal, he was paid market-leading rates for several of his arbitration years. That was not a discount contract. And neither will this one.
We’re looking at a longer version of the Tex contract: Eight years, $180 million with two option years at $25 million per.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
the difference is...
several orders of magnitude. If he is hung up over a “few” million dollars, its the difference between having more money than you can ever spend and having a few million more than you can ever spend.
I have no problem with him trying to get whatever he can get, but I also have no problem for people criticizing him for doing so. If he does leave over a few million dollars, he deserves the criticism.
by guinness junky on Mar 15, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
What does he want to buy?
If his long term goal is to buy the Twins or buy General Motors he’s going to need all the cash he can find.
I don't disagree
but Joe has always said money is not the factor. If money is in fact not the driving factor, than that extra approximate 20 million over ten years shouldn’t really be that much. It’s still not paid out up front, so yeah over the course of ten years he’s making an extra twenty mil, but each year he’s really only bringing home five mil. and I throw the term only very loosely here.
by SouthSotaPop on Mar 15, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Mauer/Shapiro are right to turn down 8/160
If I’m Shapiro (and my client wants 8 years) I have to get a Teixeira deal. 8 years $180 Million. It’s (almost certainly) less than what Mauer would get in free agency, and likely an upper boundary of the Twins limits.
As with most things in life...
…Jane Austen has the most cogent take on this situation.
“I am only resolved to act in that manner, which will, in my own opinion, constitute my happiness, without reference to YOU, or to any person so wholly unconnected with me.”
Joe Mauer can’t maintain the self-respect of the state of Minnesota, and shouldn’t have to weigh the relative merits of trying to win a title (or multiple titles) with the Twins versus another team that’s actually won at least one title during the time he’s been an active player.
If that means Mauer leaves Minnesota, then he leaves Minnesota. I believe the 2004 season showed that the loss of Mauer doesn’t necessarily mean the end of the Twins being competitive.
But Joe Mauer only played in 35 games that year before a knee injury ended his season. We had Corey Koskie, Lew Ford, and Troii Hunter on that team providing the offense while the big story was Johan Santana providing the pitching during his first Cy Young year.
...I think that was his point.
The Twins can-and have-won without Joe Mauer. The pitching may not be as good now as it was, but it’s still a pretty dangerous offensive lineup.
RonGarde: Target Field is going to be exactly like Progressive Field, except you'll have a chance to die of frostbite in the middle of July
True
But I listed high performing players that the Twins lost through any means possible including free agency and trades.
This brings me to my point and it is that the Twins never had to go through long stretches of over a few months without Joe Mauer when he was the centerpiece of the team’s offense. Knowing what we know now about Joe, if he was around during the end of the season in 2004, The Twins could have won the World Series, but there was no way of knowing that at the time.
Still, the major point is that Joe Mauer stepped up when we lost Torii Hunter, Corey Koskie, and Lew Ford. If we lose Mauer, somebody will step up and take his place.
Mauer wasn't really around yet...
I don’t think when Koskie left, and losing Ford was moreso a blessing.
by SouthSotaPop on Mar 19, 2010 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Baseball players and what they represent
Baseball is a game with high stakes like other professional sports, but because it is in fact the selling of entertainment, there is a significant amount of responsibility to the fans who have supported and will (or will not) support you in the future. So, to simply say, I can’t play for the Twins for that amount of money ($21,000,000 per year) driven by the simple logic that one can make $25,000,000 million wearing pinstripes, sounds and looks crass to fans who have been behind this Minnesota boy from Day 1. I won’t argue with Mauer about aiming for more money, but I just hope that he hasn’t become so enamored with himself that he misses the larger picture.
I think this is one of the reasons many agents are so despised. It is not so much that they are pursuing the best deal for their client, but they convince the athletes to view themselves differently. It stops being a sport of fans and teammates; instead the focus shifts to my goals, my needs at the expense of everyone else and then, you become a Yankee.
"I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. See, my mule don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it . . ."
by Skippy tastes better than Jiff on Mar 18, 2010 12:20 AM EDT reply actions
Not to mention
if Joe goes into a slump in NY he’s going to get booed. The people turn on their “Stars” faster than just about any city. Does he want to go where he gets booed for striking out? Or does he want to stay where they name streets after him for at least going down swinging?
I don't believe
he “wants” to play in NY or Boston, but I think he would go if the money was significantly more. It becomes an ego thing with players. There are a lot of lesser players making big bucks so it isn’t surprising that Mauer is holding out for top dollar.
Someone needs to photoshop a Yankees cap onto an image of Joe and post it
That’s all that’s left to maximize the sense of panic here. ;-)
This chain
Seems to be increasing in popularity as the days wear on…come on Joe!
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