Twinkie Town CBSSports.com Fantasy Baseball League: Draft and Rules
Now that we have settled on the owners for the Official 2010 Twinkie Town Fantasy Baseball League, it's time to work out the league rules, rosters, draft and other miscellaneous details. For those of you who have never managed a CBSSports.com Fantasy Baseball Commissioner League, there are a ton of available settings and configurations available for each league. From the player universe to draft type (online draft / auction or offline draft conducted over multiple days) to stat categories (by my count, 54 for hitters, 57 for pitchers) to position eligibility, the product is quite flexible. And given this flexibility, as well as 14 Twinkie Town owners, we have some work to do in order to agree on the type of league we want to run. So I'm using this post and its comment threads to help us agree on settings for the league. Input is welcome from all, regardless of whether you are an owner in our league, but when it comes time for "voting" I'm only going to consider votes from league owners. And if you would rather set up your own league with your own settings, CBSSports.com is offering 50% off its Commissioner product, a $90 deal!
I'm opening this up for discussion until next Monday morning, 22 March, after which I will finalize the league settings.
There are a number of league settings where I'm just going to have to invoke Commissioner privilege and make a unilateral decision. If anyone has a big problem with any of these selections, leave a comment and I'll consider. But otherwise these are not up for debate. Sticking to the more important settings:
- Draft Date: 01 April 2010, at 9:00 PM EDT. Rather than attempt to find a single time that works for all 14 owners, I'm just setting a time and hoping you can make it work. I've found that I can end up spending hours and hours trying to coordinate a time that works for everyone. But this is OBE if we do an offline draft over multiple days.
- Player Pool: Mixed (AL and NL players) - Considering we have 14 teams, doing an AL-only or NL-only league would be too shallow.
- Transactions: Will be effective on a weekly, as opposed to a daily basis. This will help to level the playing field among those who check rosters 50 times a day, and those who have less time on their hands.
Here are the settings where I want your input. I'll post a separate comment for each of these, please provide your own input as a reply to my original.
- Draft Type: Standard (online or offline), or Live Auction?
- Scoring System: Rotisserie, Points, or Head to Head
- Categories: 4 x 4, 5 x 5, or something more exotic. With 50+ categories for both batters and pitchers, we can get creative. Or not.
- Positions: SP and RP, or just Pitchers? OF or LF/CF/RF? DH or Utility? Number of games it takes to be eligible at a given position.
- Roster: How many at each position? How many reserve / bench and DL spots? Minor league players?
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Comments
Draft Type
Standard (online in one day or offline over multiple days), or Live Auction?
My preference is an auction, IMO it makes the draft a lot more interesting and fun. Not to mention we can all bid up the Twins players.
I love auction, It my favorite way to draft.
After that I’d say live action draft, having a clock on me helps.
"I couldn't do that. Could you do that? Why can they do it? Who are those guys?"
I think live auction is the only type of auction available
Offline is only available for a “standard” snake style draft, and those could take days.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 17, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I've never done auction
But I’m flexible. I vote NO for offline, though. We can surely make a time work for all, or people can autodraft.
Yeah I should clear this up....
1st choice Live Auction Draft.
2nd Live snake draft.
"I couldn't do that. Could you do that? Why can they do it? Who are those guys?"
I am fine with the current draft time, unless there is some huge push for an auction style. I've never one this, but I'm open too it, I guess.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Auction style would be held at the same date/time
It’s done online as well.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 17, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Well the time works well for me, anyway. If we're switching it to auction lets do it in a couple days though, because it will take extra draft planning
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
I think there's a misinterpretation here
with auction style drafts. They take a little longer than standard “snake” drafts due to the bidding on each player, but it’s all done in a couple 2-3 hours.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 17, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
No no
No, I’m not worried about the time the draft will take, but I’ll need to do more research to be prepared for that type of draft as A> there are more strategic decisions to be made and B> I’ve never done it before (as have not, I’m sure, many of the other leagies) so I’ll have to do some strategy reading/prepping.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
01 April is two weeks away
is that enough time to prep? If we delay the draft any further we’re into the start of the regular season.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 17, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Did we
decide on auction? I’ve never done auction online before, only offline. Is it pretty straight forward?
No and
Not for sure. Though Adam P, I would think that would be enough prep, yeah, if we ake the decision in a little while. One consideration would be an auction being less cool online than in person, but mayhaps people have done it before and disagree…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 18, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Auction action
Auction sounds fine to me, especially since it keeps you interested while it’s not your ‘pick’. (At least for the first few rounds.)
Auction draft if not logged in
How does auction draft for those who may not be able to attend part or whole draft? Does the CPU bid for you?
Yes.
You can set up your dollar values before hand and the computer will bid up to your max for each player.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 17, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
The system will start with the CBSSports defaults
and you adjust accordingly. In my experience it takes more time to come up with your projections than to enter them in. But there are a number of sites available that will allow you to tailor your projections based on categories, number of teams, etc.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 17, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Flexible
Auctions are fun, but depending on the setup can take forever. Especially if we have large rosters. But I personally like the online Snake drafts but can go eitherway.
by Sleepyweasel on Mar 21, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Scoring System
We can do Rotisserie, Points or Head to Head (matching up categories) scoring.
I like both Rotisserie and Head to Head. Better trash talking in a H2H league…
Roto is my favorite, by quite a bit
More strategy and less luck, IMO
True statement regarding luck in H2H leagues
especially in a given week. But overall for the season it tends to even itself out.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 17, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Playoffs
Not in the playoffs though, imo
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Very true
always ends up a crapshoot in the playoffs. Since this is for Twinkie Town bragging rights, we should go with the format that ends up with the “best” team winning. So my vote is rotisserie.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 17, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Crao Shoot
I suppose it is very much like real MLB to have that crap shoot…
Ultimately, I’m with ya’ though.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Depends on categories
Roto is fine, but both H2H and roto depend largely on the categories you pick in the league. If you have H/Hr/R & RBi’s all in the mix, then you make .260 hitting power hitters just as good as .330 hitting speedster because each time they hit a homerun it counts in 4 categories and that’s if it’s a solo shot.
by Sleepyweasel on Mar 21, 2010 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Scoring
I think points systems are very stupid for baseball (as opposed to football where it’s the best way) and head to head would, i think, be an awful choice if we’re doing lineups on a weekly basis (which I really don’t like, for what it’s worth). Doing head to head would defeat much of the purpose of going to weekly lineups since a great deal of the league becomes scouring for pitches with two starts in the same week rather than building the best staff possible.
Bottom line, I think roto is the way to go by far and head to head isn’t worth considering unless we shift to daily lineups and transactions.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Sounds like everyone is for Roto...
but I will say I prefer head to head. I just think it’s more fun.
Roto weakness
The only weakness I’m aware of for rotisserie-style scoring is that, by a few weeks after the trading deadline, the standings tend to be set in stone unless some stat categories remain extremely close. Similarly, if you fall behind early in a category (a couple of inopportune injuries, for instance), it’s really hard to make up the ground.
To my mind, HTH keeps the league interesting for more players for longer, since if you make a good trade or promotion, you can work your way back into the mix more easily. For some, though, that’s a downside, and I can understand why they feel that way.
ROto
I’ve had leagues where I’ve been engaged in very tights fights down the stretch. I’ve gone from 12 back in fourth place at the strt of September to a win. I’ve been in dead last at the All Star Break and come back to win (actually, the only day I lead all season that year was after the last game).
So I think it’s pretty possible to turn things around. In my experience roto leagues are often decided by literally 3 stirkeouts or 1 win or 2 homers.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 18, 2010 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Categories
We can do a ton here. I’m thinking a standard 5×5 league (R, HR, RBI, SB, AVG) and (W, SV, SO, ERA, WHIP), but these may be a bit traditional for some on Twinkie Town. Unfortunately, wOBA and UZR don’t seem to be available.
Stats
I am really against leagues with too many stats, and particularly hate most negative stats (batter K’s and errors, pitcher walks, etc), but there are a few stats we could choose to go with on top on the standard 5×5. In one of my yearly leagues we’ve added Holds for pitchers, which makes setup men more valuable/required and gotten rid of Batting average in favor of OBP and Slg%, making for 6 categories on either side. Honestly, I wouldn’t add too many more different stats than that as you either start to double and triple up on certain at bat outcomes or really muddle the pot.reward players for simply playing less.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
In my favorite league setup, it's a 6x6
Standard 5×5 with OPS and Holds added. I’m not a fan of holds as a statistic, but at least it gives middle relievers some value. I like the idea of replacing batting average with OBP and SLG though.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 17, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I did a 6x6 last year
And we used OPS and holds. I kind of hate OPS, though since it really made your power guys a big deal. Everyone just punted on steals b/c there were so many more categories that valued power. I am not opposed to it though. I think OBP should definitely replace average.
Steals
Hmmm, while I think OBP and SLG format is balanced in terms of hitters for power and hitters for average, you are right that steals becomes the one category that gets kind of left out. On the other hand, stolen bases aren’t probably as important to real offense as just flat out hitting for a high average or a lot of power are.
One thing I LIKE about slugging, though, is it gives some bonus to guys who hit lots of doubles but aren’t maybe big HR hitters, as I think those guys are underrated by the traditional 5×5 setup.
I would like to come up with a way to less devalue steals in my OBP and SLG format (maybe we could multiply the value of the category by 1.5 or something, haha), but at the end of the day I’d rather have SBs the stat holding the short stick rather than doubles or walks or power. Also, most guys with a lot of SBs are also great run scorers, and often high OBP guys as well, so you still have plenty of value in that sort of player…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Agree
I agree, this is my favorite general setup too, though I’d personally think OBP and SLG is somewhat more balanced than OPS and BA. Both systems double count BA kinda, but BA + OPS TRIPLE counts it…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
6x6
I like the idea of adding holds to a traditional pitching 5×5.
For a hitting 6×6, I’d recommend using OBP instead of BA, and replacing HR with Total Bases. Yeah, you lose the cool-factor of looking up the dinger leaders, but you also avoid the problems that can happen by adding a second rate stat that basically already contains the first rate stat. You also maintain a benefit for guys who hit for ‘power’ without hitting homers. Since speed guys also tend to chime in a few triples a year, they end up contributing in TB as well as in SB.
Just a thought.
Total bases
Total bases is very interesting… though it means singles are being super counted again…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 18, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Would be perfect...
…if you could use TB-singles, but I don’t know of any system that does that.
Maybe
CBS has lots of stats available, maybe they have IsoP?
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 21, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
My problem with SLG
Is that it double counts HR. In one of my leagues, we have AVG and OBP, which kind of double counts AVG, but doesn’t solely benefit the power hitters the way that SLG does.
Positions
We can break out starting pitchers and relief pitchers, or we could just use pitchers. Same for outfield, do we break out left, center and right field separately? Do we use DH or Utility (or neither)? And how many games should it take for a player to become eligible at a new position? 20 games is the CBSSports.com default.
I'd vote for breaking up the OF by position same for pitchers.
Otherwise IF’s become to valuable. Getting a good CF becomes a priority after MI.
"I couldn't do that. Could you do that? Why can they do it? Who are those guys?"
Disagree about breaking up OF by position
Also not sure why MI position would be needed. There are already few decent hitters at those positions.
My last league just did "pitchers"
With an innings limit, it became really interesting to see people’s strategy. A couple fools loaded up on starters to accumulate counting stats and screwed themselves at the end.
I think 20 games is cool, but I’ve seen 10, too. I like doing outfielders as a group also, just because eligibility can be an issue there, but I can see maxisagod’s point below.
If we
If we just make it generic “pitchers” there needs to be an inning cap and floor, imo. The strategy of just loading up on closers to punt saves and wins but do well in whip, ERA, and saves, is strategically smart sometimes, but it’s really unrealistic and annoying, and I don’t like leagues that allow it. I prefer leagues that require teams to have all sorts of pitchers, which is why holds are cool, because you need setup men, closers, and a basically full starting staff.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Example of IP cap and floor
With 5×5 stats + holds, probably want minumum to be 4 starter, max 6 with 10 pitchers starting weekly.
Floor: 4 SP x 170 IP + 6 RP x 55 IP = 1010 IP
Cap: 6 SP x 210 IP + 4 RP x 65 IP = 1520 IP
Maybe round to 100 and 1500.
The cap would simply stop you from accumulating any stats once it has been passed. The floor could either automatically give you no points/lat place in pitching rate stats (ie, ERA and WHIP) or maybe we say we simply add innings to your total until you are at the floor with something like a 6.00 ERA and a 1.8 WHIP for all added innings, ie, you don’t lose all your WHIp and ERA stats, but you are penalized in those stats to be brought to the minimum.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Floor
Might not be a huge deal if we have counting stats (Ws and Ks) because you would pretty much have to forfeit those categories if you used all relief guys.
Holds
If we add holds it’s less of a big deal, and it’s less of a big deal in roto in general, but in some 5×5 leagues you can totally punt w’s and k’s and dominate saves, WHIP, and ERA and do very well. Though that mostly in h2h formats I guess.
IP cap is obviously important though.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Agreed, floor is not that important
I can’t imagine someone would punt 2 categories all together
I would vote for
NOT breaking up OFs, but differentiating between SP and RP.
it's baseball
By that I mean, each team should have a player slotted in each position in my opinion. Have 3 RF’s in your lineup isn’t much of a baseball lineup in my mind. I like when everyone has to fill out all positions. It also makes players that can have multiple eligibilities worthwhile.
by Sleepyweasel on Mar 21, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Too restrictive
I like that reasoning, especially if we do it keeper style (seems to make sense that if we’re keeping players for longer… ie more realistically, we should have to hae middle defenders) but I still think pretty strongly that, at least for the OF, we should not mandate a difference between LF and RF, as in real life baseball almost all RFers could play left and some vice versa, but these players would be kinda pointlessly restricted just by inconsequential lineup choices. Plus any Cf could play the other spots, so I’d support having 1 or 2 specific CF spots and then just general OF spots. WHy should Grady Sizemore, for example, be disallowed to play in the other OF spots when he could clearly excell at any of the 3 in real life.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 21, 2010 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Roster
How many catchers? Bench spots, DL, minor leagues, etc. As a starting point, I’ve set up a pretty “standard” Rotisserie style roster, two catchers, Corner Infield, Middle Infield, 5 OF, 1 UT, 9 pitchers. And up to six bench players with no separate injured list.
Personally, I prefer a bit smaller bench, it forces owners to live with the roster decisions they make. But again, I’m flexible.
Rosters
Catchers- Catchers are boring as hell to deal with anyway. If we had to catcher spots, we’d basically have every ML catcher on rosters, which means you are constantly fiddling with deciding who’s getting an off day when, which is just a pain, and most catchers aren’t that different anyway. I’d go with 1 catcher.
IF – I like not having extra extraneous infielders required to play (ie, spots for 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, as well as required Ci and MI starters). I’d generally prefer to have just the set positions.
OF – I think 5 OF is excessive, as is requiring a specific LF, RF, and CF 9especially since in real life there is no reason a lot of RF’s, for example, couldn’t switch to left, but the system won’t let them because the just happen to play right). I would think it might be cool to have 3 generic OF spots and one specific CF spot though, as it would require everyone to look into this less offensively powerful pool. If you want more specificity, maybe 1 or 2 COF spots, 1 CF spot, and then generic OF spots until there are 4 positions. If we add the 5th OF spot, we should add another IF spot so isn’t unbalanced. If we add the generic CF spot, I’d actually support adding a generic MI spot as the last IF spot so guys had to select from marginal players instead of everybody just drafting another 1B to play their IF spot.
Util/DH – One of these is plenty, IMO. If guys really want to force utility players, we can put it in in the form of the required MI spot.
Pitchers – If we add holds, 9 is probably too few (need 2 closers, 2 or 3 setup men, 5 starters) and I might even advocate a 10 man staff. Without holds, 9 is fine.
DL – 1 seems foolishly restrictive to me, in general, especially since you cannot cut people right off the DL list on CBSSports (ie you have to drop somebody else, put the DL player back on regular roster, and THEN cut them). Depending on the size of our rosters ultimately, I think 2 DL slots is probably enough, with maybe 3 if we go with bigger rosters.
Bench – Cna you make the bench specifically devided between pitchers and hitters? If so, we could do a 9 man staff, for example, with 2 pitching bench spots, then give two hitting bench spots. If we cannot do that, I’d prefer maybe 3 bench spots, but it again depends on the size of our rosters. Too many bench spots, especially with this big of a league, really depletes the intrigue along the waiver wire, which is a lot of the fun. But too small of benches leaves an annoying small amount of flexibility. It’s good to have a couple bench spots though…
I guess my preferred roster setup would be C, 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, MI, OF, OF, OF, CF, DH
In general I’m against having too many of the generic MI/CIF, UTIl, etc slots since having lots of those flex spots devalues guys who can play many positions and still hit, whom I think should keep some level of special value by being flexible (CHone Figgans back in the day, along with Brandon Inge, were the kings of this kind).
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
I don't like splitting the bench by hitters and pitchers
That should be left up to preferences of the manager. If your starters are stellar, no need to keep more of a bench than needed for hitters / pitchers.
Keeper league?
Do we expect teams will be allowed to keep players from year to year? That definitely affects where they can be drafted.
Good question
I love keeper leagues, but we’d be talking about a multi-year commitment. Then again, perhaps if we decide to do a keeper league, if any owner bails we’ll get someone else from Twinkie Town to take it over.
I’m game if others are.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 17, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I would join if someone bails. Just throwing that out there
I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Mar 17, 2010 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Keepers in Auction leagues
How do keepers work in auction leagues? One manager could theoretically have the same player forever.
We have keepers in my league with a standard selection draft, but we tie the cost to keep a player to the draft pick used to select them. The cost to keep a player escalates every year so that eventually a player is not worth keeping (have to give up a higher pick than the player is worth, or can’t keep after player costs 1st round pick). That way there is turnover among the best players and someone doesn’t get to keep someone like Matt Wieters for 15 years.
Any thoughts?
I guess $ cost could just escalate
To follow onto my own example, I suppose the $ cost for the player could increase by some amount ($5) from year to year.
That way, someone is rewarded for finding the next Pujols for $2 in the draft, but does not get to keep that player for only $2 forever. Eventually the cost to keep that player would exceed their actual value.
I think
I think other leagues have a way of dealing with this, ie, they have some outside source for a list price of all players. For example, you may use a draft guide from some source which would say, for example, Joe Mauer is a $40 player, so if you keep him, that’s what it costs.
Or it could just be something to consider in the initial draft for someone. Makes young players a lot more expensive, which would really, really complicate the strategy. I guess I’d be opposed to doing both keeper and auction, just because it’s quite a lot.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 17, 2010 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Auction keepers
The way I’ve seen it handled, at the time you sign a player in an auction league, you also declare the number of years for which you are signing him (usually a max of 3 years). You pay the same $ each year he’s ‘under contract’, and that $ comes out of your available pool $ prior to the next year’s draft. When the contract runs out, the player goes back into the auction pool (he’s basically now a ‘free agent’).
This can be good and bad — it definitely rewards those folks who can find a ‘breakout’ player just at the cusp of his breakout, and it also tends to shorten the subsequent years’ drafting (since fewer players are eligible). And, just like a real GM, if you make a mistake on a big contract, you’re eating it. On the bad side, the most interesting players ‘turn over’ less often (though it can also make trading more valuable, because you can’t necessarily sit and wait until the player goes back into the hopper in next year’s draft).
Hmm
Hmm, thats a pretty cool system too. I guess if we did keeper, we’d probably first want to decide if we did a keeper style where many of the players are kept from year to year (half of most teams, a third, etc) or if each person is only going to be allowed to keep a few players every year (many leagues only allow you to hold onto 3 or 4 players every year, and the rest is a draft). I would think the style you mentioned would result in a lot higher amount of keeping.
Also, one downside I can see is it would make the game a lot more salary conscious, but maybe that’s not bad.
Anyways, it would certainly push things much more towards franchise simulation instead of classic fantasy. If we used that system, I think we should have small minor league systems. Maybe a MiL draft following the ML one where we can draft any minor leaguers (maybe, like 5 players per system).
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 18, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Keepers should be limited
to only a handful or so. Otherwise there is less turnover in the standings from year-to-year and people could become less engaged.
I am not in favor of declaring contracts for keepers. While I think this could be a good idea, it is probably not the best strategy for a new league with fresh managers, not all of whom may be truly interested in playing for multiple seasons.
While I think minor leaguers are interesting to consider, it add another very time consuming layer. I would recommend waiting to do something like this until a season or two from now.
Contract Keepers and CBS
If the CBS Sports interface doesn’t allow for tracking of this kind of thing, it’d be a lot more difficult to make work.
I think it’d be cool, but not at the expense of creating systems outside of the main interface that people have to keep track of.
Keepers
Span Man makes a good point that with the turnover we might get you don’t want new managers dealing with bad decisions from years ago by old managers.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 21, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You have a point
keepers may be a “bridge too far” for this first year. Maybe in following years if this turns out well.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 22, 2010 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Keepers in auctions
It appears that CBSSports handles keepers, salaries and contracts directly within the tool. The way keepers typically work in an auction draft league is that all players can be kept at their original auction price for up to two years after they are originally drafted. So if I draft Nick Punto for $1 this year, I can keep him for $1 in 2011 and 2012. Where it gets interesting is after two years – before 2012 for the Punto example – an owner has to make a decision whether or not to extend the contract at $5 per year. So if I wanted to keep Punto through 2014 (2 additional years), his 2012, 2013 and 2014 salary would be $11. Or I could choose simply to keep Punto at $1 for 2012, but he’d have to be thrown back into the following year’s auction.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 22, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not
I’m not super keen to do keeper, but if we can come up with a good system and most of the rest of the league really want to, I could go for it. This certainly is a good place to start one since we do have the captive audience…
Actually, it could become kind of a big deal around here if we do it that way, keeping the same teams for a long time…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 17, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
LF, RF, CF, OF, OF, C,C, MI, CI, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS and UT or DH.
Just an idea.
What ever people want to do with pitchers as really fine with me.
"I couldn't do that. Could you do that? Why can they do it? Who are those guys?"
I like this as well
Forces owners to have each OF position, but also gives flexibility. I was also considering CF,CF,OF,OF,OF to force the CF issue, but that would probably be too many center fielders.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 22, 2010 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Lineups
I’ve gotten enough feedback that I’m opening this up: Daily or Weekly lineups? I’ll be flexible.
Daily
Even though I’m over-spread out in fantasy leagues and should want weekly, I have one huge problem with that format (other than midweek injuries being a huge deal): A HUGE component of the league becomes filling your staff with pitchers who have two starts that week, simply because of how the calendar falls. Evaluating players more based on the dates of their starting rotation, rather than their sleeper value or matchups or anything else is really… not fun to me. Also, it’s a ton of work, which at least partially offsets the time save you get by making lineup changes weekly.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
For me, it's a tradeoff
between scouring to set your lineup for the week based on matchups, and teams that stream players from day to day based on who’s starting. But streaming can be countered with IP and AB limits. Which I would do if we go rotisserie.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 17, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I already voted on this above...
But I’ll try again anyway. You can never be too persistant :) My experience has been that people who are going to be active will be active no matter what. You can set your lineups ahead of time, so if you want to leave it the same, you can. But people who are choosing to not actively participate aren’t really incentivized by having less of a time commitment. Those people just won’t change their weekly lineups then.
Yeah
Plus, this is generally supposed to be a high-skill league with tough competition, so I’m fine requiring people to be a little more committed to winning. On one hand, maybe that’s because I’m a college student who might have more time, but on the other hand, lots of working stiffs just check their stuff at the office all the time anyway, and my job this summer will keep me on the road around Wisconsin and watching college baseball players, not working in front of a CPU or watching MLB, so maybe I don’t have such a built in advantage after all…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Can I hope
that at some point you guys will be doing this sort of thing privately? Not terribly fond of having the updates for your fantasy league in my RSS.
They'll become less frequent once we get into the season.
But it’s a great comunity thing, so we encourage it.
Anybody planning on blogging their league experience?
I’m already considering a ‘bottomfeeder report’.
I
I’ve already got a book deal for the story. It’s gonna’ be called “How Juggernauts are Built” and cost $24.95 in hardcover.
Maybe a self-fantasy-help sequel called “Draft Day to Oct 1: How to dominate your league like AdamOnfirst” (which rhymes in a corny way).
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 18, 2010 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh,
is there some reason this needs to be on the front page?
by montanatwinsfan on Mar 17, 2010 6:17 PM EDT reply actions
We want to promote it as a community event.
Plus, they sponser the league…the top-tier league…for free. So it has to be on the front page.
Get into the league folks, it's a TT fight to the finish...
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 17, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Recap the current feedback
Adam, could you recap what you consider the likely settings are for the league? It would be nice to have a consolidated view of what you consider to be the likeliest settings before Monday when you hope to finalize them.
The posts on this thread have been in different directions, so having a recap would be helpful.
Yes, this please
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 21, 2010 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the input everyone, here's where I'm leaning
Based on a highly un-scientific review of the comments…
- Transactions: Daily – pretty clear preference here
- Scoring: Rotisserie
- Draft: Live online auction
- Stats: 6×6 [OBP, SLG, HR, “RBI-HR” (reduces double counting of HR), SB, R] and [W, SV, SO, HLD, ERA, WHIP] – I like the idea of OBP versus AVG. Unfortunately, ISO is not supported. And I prefer a rate state like SLG to a counting stat like total bases.
- Positions: C,C,1B,2B,3B,SS,CI,MI,LF,CF,RF,OF,OF,UT and SP,SP,SP,SP,RP,RP,RP,P,P with 5 bench spots and 2 DL spots
- Keepers: Yes, standard rotissierie style. Here’s a good description of how it works, see Chapter 14 “Roster Protection and Contracts”
We’ll finalize today, so if you think anything needs to change, this is your chance.
Keepers
So I’m waffling. Span Man has a great point, for a fresh league like this it may not be best to jump right into contracts and keepers. So I’m reversing my stance for the moment – no keepers.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 22, 2010 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm actually on the fence
I really enjoy the keeper component of fantasy baseball, BUT:
→ # of keepers should be limited in the leagues first year to a few at most
→ If we do keepers, we kind of need to figure out soon how the keeping aspect will work. I like what Adam outlined above: get to keep at 3 years at the draft cost, and then the price escalates by some amount each following year. The reason we need to figure it out now is that having keepers definitely affects how much someone is worth bidding for.
Then again, it may be advisable to wait until next season in case there is turnover among managers. Even if there is turnover though, the worst case is just that someone inherits keepers from another players team.
I’m very undecided…
Auction Concerns
You mentioned in the first post that the time of the draft obviously you did the best you could with getting a time everyone can partake. Though some may not beable to make it. In this case through the auction how does that team get players. I’ve never been in an auction where everyone wasn’t present!
That being said, since we are (I’m assuming) spread across all of the U.S. with the auction can people come in late or leave early. With the size of the rosters the draft has potential to take a few hours. Starting at 9EST if you live there, you will go late into the night. But can’t go much earlier or West coast is still working (once again assuming). I’m just concerned that people may either show up late or leave early depending on their living conditions. Especially with a auction with a large roster size.
Streaming
Are we going to have IP or AB limits to discourage streaming?

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