Why Cant Mauer Play Third?
by Ryan Conway on Mar 2, 2010 10:57 AM EST
37 comments
I know what your thinking Joe is the best catcher in baseball and the Twinks would be crazy to move him. He is the best catcher in baseball and handles the pitching staff marvelously. That being said catchers take a beating over the haul of 162 games and it is very hard on the knees. Moving Mauer to third would be a defensive loss yes, however I think it worth the trade off reducing injury risk. I am not writing this because I don't enjoy watching Mauer catch, I just would like to see him stay healthy for many years to come.
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Eventually, yes...so I voted yes...
But not right now. Joe’s relative value behind the plate is way too high to do it immediately. However, in a few years as he approaches his 30’s, and the physical toll becomes greater…absolutely.
This is why I wouldn’t hesitate to give him a LOOONG-term contract. I think he would take to 3rd perfectly due to his quick catching reflexes and strong, accurate arm.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
Joe is the best catcher in baseball and the Twinks would be crazy to move him.
Plus Joe doesn’t want to be 3B, he wants to be the catcher.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Mar 2, 2010 11:08 AM EST reply actions
are your ejaculations premature too?
by montanatwinsfan on Mar 2, 2010 11:08 AM EST reply actions 8 recs
Hahaha!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Mar 2, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
I see a 50/50 DH/Catcher split happening before a move to 3rd.
"I couldn't do that. Could you do that? Why can they do it? Who are those guys?"
Yes, Wilson Ramos and Joe Mauer will split the two positions.
It’s a perfect Scenario really.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Mar 2, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
No, it really isn't
It limits both of their values. If they resign Mauer, they have to look at trading Ramos. Not this second, but if he has another good season, they really shouldn’t hold onto him too long.
Players get stale and their prospect sheen wears off if you hang on to them too long.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 2, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Not now.
Most likely he will change positions 3-4 years from now. When Wilson Ramos is ready to take over catching duties full time.
"If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error." - John Kenneth Galbraith.
by 92 MPH Knuckleball on Mar 2, 2010 12:29 PM EST reply actions
Won't that day be odd
I’m sure there will be some interesting posts on TT when the Twins announce a move to 3B for Mauer and Ramos taking over at C.
Wilson
Ramos will be ready to take over the catching position by seasons end, not in 3-4 years.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Not si sure.....
Ramos is in his second option year. Assuming Morales stays healthy, see Ramos putting time at at AAA for most of the season. Also, see him starting next year at AAA with a aprtial call-up. Then he could work in as a fulltime abckup in 2012 and 2013 and still not be arbitration eligible until after the 2014 season.
The Twins would, conceivably, have until 2013 to decide on the career path or Ramos with the Twins and if he is stellar, move Mauer and sign Ramos to a contact for 2-3-4 years in 2014.
Yes, moving Mauer to third in 2-3 years would be a bonus for the Twins, if he can keep the power. Plus, you have a third abseman who can also catch. And I look to Mauer moving over to first when the Morneau contract expires…someday. I hope Joe has a good 15 years left to play for the Twins in some capacity!
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
Joe wont
sign unless Morneau is assured to be a Twin for the remainder of his career.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
that would be one of the most foolish and irrational
contract demands that I could imagine seeing.
by montanatwinsfan on Mar 2, 2010 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
ya well
you arent part of the M&M boys.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
+1
I love Twins Baseball and Minnesota Vikings Football.
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Mar 2, 2010 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
No way
Mauer’s immense value comes because he is a catcher. As a third baseman or DH his offense becomes much less valuable relative to his peers.
Growing my own "Darko-stache" since last Monday.
positional adjustment
C +12.5 runs
3B + 2.5 runs
Mauer would lose 1 win switching from C to 3B assuming he’s a plus defender at 3B. I don’t think that’s a stretch as he’s very athletic (FSU football scholarship). He may even make up some of the difference by playing in more games.
He would hit better at 3B
Catching is so tough on the hands, it’s amazing he’s hit as well as he has. As he ages, it will affect him more. I still don’t think it’s a good idea. But at some point, he’ll produce more value from his offense at another position than he would from his defense at catcher.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I remember seeing an article about catching
They interviewed Brandon Inge and compared his stats at 3rd base vs catcher. He talked about how often you get dinged up behind the plate. He said at catcher you’re basically always hurt, even if you aren’t injured. His hitting numbers backed it up to. They were something like 30% better when he played at 3rd. Mauer wouldn’t get 30% better at hitting if he played somewhere else, but he could be better.
it would
be scary if Mauer was 30% better at hitting…
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
It wouldn't surprise me
How many grounders to second has he hit in his career? Some of his critics nicknamed him 4-3 because of this tendency, even when he was winning batting titles. That’s the dead hands talking. With fresh hands, many of those are liners to center.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
He had fresh hands when he came off the DL at the beginning of the year last year
And he was absolutely ridiculous. I wouldn’t expect that, but I’d expect and increase in power for sure.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Mar 4, 2010 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
If they asked Joe to move to third, he wouldn't sign a contract extension
He likes playing catcher. He wants to play catcher for as long as his body holds out. If they tried to move him, they would lose him to free agency after 2010. That’s pretty much a doomsday scenario for this franchise.
Why can’t people understand that he’s in the drivers’ seat with his career and let this one go?!
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
He'd be an awfully good 3rd baseman.
But right now he’s playing like the best catcher ever. There is a huge difference between being a top 5 player at your position in any given year and being the #1 player ever at it.
How it could make sense
From a cold logic perspective, it would make sense for the Twins if their backup catcher was more valuable than their incumbent third baseman.
That said, like cmath said, you don’t alienate your franchise player, so the Twins wouldn’t force Mauer to move, and there is also some off-field value in having “the greatest catcher in the world” rather than “a really good third baseman”.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Not now.
Down the line, sure, probably. But I think this line of thought is probably a couple of years premature.
How about Sano playing 3rd
Mauer catching
and some stud pitcher the Twins trade Ramos for on the mound?
by ckb on Mar 2, 2010 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
I like that scenario
Mauer – C
Sano – 3B
Hardy – SS
Revere – LF
Hicks – CF
Ramos – Nolasco?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
2012 line-up
Span CF
Revere LF
Mauer C/DH
Morneau 1B
Ramos DH/C
Kubel RF
Hardy SS
Valencia 3B
Singelton/Plouffe 2B
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Why fix what ain't broke?
As it is, I see no real reason to move Mauer. If these injuries happen on a regular basis and can be directly attributable to the rigors of catching, then I can see the argument for moving him somewhere else. Without digging into the splits at Fangraphs, I believe that Mauer has, throughout his career, batted better when he’s playing in the field than at DH, by a pretty statistically significant margin. That alone is enough reason to keep Mauer at C as long as his body can allow it.
has anybody mentioned...
has anybody mentioned how well Joe handles the pitching staff? What kind of pitching stats decrease because the Twins don’t have him behind the plate? How many +/- games does that equate to?
Even if he gets banged up and is only hitting a meager .300, we want him directing our pitching staff.
It's a really tough thing to measure
backup catchers don’t get enough playing time to accurately decide if the pitchers are better or worse with them behind the plate. His reputation says he is good at handling a pitching staff, but we have no way of knowing how many runs or wins that equates to.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Mar 4, 2010 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
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