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Around SBN: Jeremy Lin And How The Pac-12 Missed Him

Subtext: Now that Perkins is injured, the Twins need a LOOGY. Mahay would fit the bill nicely. If he pitches well in the remaining week, he could make the team out of spring training.

almost 2 years ago The_jet_tiny cmathewson 55 comments 0 recs  | 

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Hummmmm

Too abd they didn’t send him down earlier. Now they have to keep him on the major league payroll!

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Mar 24, 2010 10:57 AM EDT reply actions  

Perkins has a way of getting injured a couple of days after those deadlines

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 24, 2010 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Perk

so where is the injury this time? My guess is between the ears.

by WITwinsfan on Mar 24, 2010 11:16 AM EDT reply actions  

your right

that was mean. We all want to see him do well.

by WITwinsfan on Mar 24, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Injured lifting weights

His throwing is set back a couple of weeks. He’ll either start the year on the DL or get optioned to Rochester and wind up on the Rochester DL. Either way, he can stay in sunny Florida for another month.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 24, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm

So I guess he’s fighting Duensing for the spot?

by dctwin on Mar 24, 2010 11:41 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't think

the Twins have any intention of bringing Duensing north. Bullpen as it stands now…

Guerrier – CL
Mijares – setup
Rauch – setup
Crain – setup
Mahay – loogy
Condrey – long man
Duensing/Slama

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett

by BCTwins on Mar 24, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I expect the Twins to acquire a closer

This is the bullpen I see going north

Bell/Frasor – CL
Guerrier – setup
Mijares – Setup
Rauch – Setup
Crain – setup
Mahay – LOOGY
Condrey – long

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 24, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why does no one think Neshek will go north with the team?

I think he has shown he is pretty healthy, and has a legitimate shot of making this team, and helping them out a lot.

by Twins4Life on Mar 24, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Injury risk

I agree that he looks fantastic, but there isn’t much incentive to risk injury if the weather isn’t ideal. He can come up in a couple weeks when it warms up and then the Twins will have a better idea of who needs to go.

by dctwin on Mar 24, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1

His velocity just hit 88 mph yesterday. They want to see it consistently at 89-91 mph in AAA is my guess. If they don’t acquire anyone, he makes the most sense to be the closer by June.

by bbeeck on Mar 24, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was just about to post the same thing

It’s not as likely if cmathewson is right about a new closer – I think he’s got the bullpen spot-on in that situation. But if they don’t, I would guess that Neshek is the favorite for the last spot, since he’s been fairly effective so far this spring and has some MLB experience, albeit not recently.

I am guessing that the Twins see Duensing as the sixth starter, and it would be better to have him getting regular starting work in Rochester so that he’s stretched out if they need him. The main failure in that argument is that without him, there’s no one in the bullpen who has started a game since 2006 (Guerrier started one that year; Rauch started one in 2005; Condrey was a regular starter in the minors in 2005), so they’d probably have to go starter-by-committee in the case of a last-second scratch.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Mar 24, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Simply because you want to be cautious when bringing a guy back under these circumstances.

He hasn’t thrown a major league pitch since 2008—it’s been a long, long time. And when it’s not the warmest weather in April it makes it easier to tighten up when you’re on the mound, and Neshek’s not exactly the kind of guy to hold back. If he can stick around in Rochester for six or seven weeks, get some more work in for his arm while under less pressure and in warmer weather, I think that’s a good route to take.

I think it’s easy to fall into the trap of thinking “Well, he’s looked great in spring training”, because he has, but we need to remember how long it’s actually been. And he hasn’t been throwing full-tilt for very long.

by Jesse on Mar 24, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weather

The average temp in Rochester is actually a few degrees colder than MN. If it’s about weather, he should be in MN.

by GACTwinFan on Mar 24, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

He can't pitch very often yet

He looks pretty good once a week. He needs to be able to pitch three or four times a week to have a job in the bullpen.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 24, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

And we don’t need to stress his arm in April. Let’s have him around in August, September and October by working arm strength up now. Its very encouraging that he’s had a good spring, but look no further than Liriano’s spring numbers from last year to see that they can be deceiving for pitchers coming back from TJ’s surgery.

by bbeeck on Mar 24, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

This will be the pen

CL – Rauch/Guerrier
Setup – Rauch/Guerrier
Setup – Neshek
Setup – Crain
Setup – Mijares
Loogy – Mahay
Longman – Condrey or Slama

There’s no reason why neshek cannot go north at this point. He’s given up 1 run all spring and gotten plenty of Ks to go with it. I’m not exactly sure what people are looking for. He’s giving results, and good ones. Perkins is probably going to be in AAA with Duensing. He’s managed to kill his trade value too. This sucks.

The way Condrey has pitched, I’m quite fine with giving that role to Slama… that’s just me. something tells me the brass won’t agree.

by diehardtwinsfan on Mar 24, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

VERY Interesting

The more I think about it, the more interesting it is. I thought all along that Mahay would be nice to re-sign, but with so many lefties (Mijares, Liriano, Duensing, Perkins), it made zero sense.

This signing means one of two things.
1) Mijares will be the closer. This is highly unlikely and doesn’t make a ton of sense, but its worth mentioning.
2) Neither Duensing or Perkins will make the team. The Twins will not take 4 LHP north. It also implies that Liriano has the 5th spot sewn up. If they wanted him to close, they would not have Mijares and Mahay in the bullpen with a left-handed closer.

Therefore, I think its most likely that the Mahay signing means that Liriano will start, Duensing will go to AAA and start, and Perkins will certainly not be on the 25-man. It seems they were leaning this way even before the Perkins injury, but now its settled. He’ll go on the DL and then go to the minors while they try to move him. I would be very surprised if Mahay doesn’t make the 25-man out of ST.

by bbeeck on Mar 24, 2010 12:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Mijares could also be the 8th-inning guy

It’s possible that Guerrier or Rauch is the closer as well, with Mijares and Rauch/Guerrier splitting 8th-inning duties depending on the upcoming lineup or the amount of rest. That would leave Gardy free to bring in a LOOGy earlier in the game if there was a high-leverage situation that called for it.

Judging by Gardy’s comments when he’s been asked about the closer situation, I wouldn’t be shocked to see the Twins go with a closer-by-committee. I know, it’s unpopular outside sabermetric circles, and it seems like the Twins are too traditional to try that, but Gardy’s generally pretty good with a bullpen, and this seems like a bullpen that lends itself well to it (lots of similar-quality guys of various handedness).

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Mar 24, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what I expected initially

At first, I assumed Gardy would go with a closer-by-committee approach. If I remember correctly, however, he made some comments recently about naming someone to that role in the next couple of weeks. He said something about guys liking to know their roles, etc. I agree, they would be fine statistically without naming a closer, since outside of the 3-4 elite guys in the league closers are generally overrated. With that being said, I think you’re right about the Mahay move. I hadn’t thought of that really. I think he’ll name Guerrier (whether or not that’s a good idea, I’m not sure) and have Rauch/Mijares split the eighth. Then they’ll use Mahay like they did last September: in higher leverage situations in the sixth/seventh innings of games.

by bbeeck on Mar 24, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

except I think they’ll swap Guerrier and Rauch.

by ckb on Mar 24, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope so.

I just can’t see Guerrier closing.

by bbeeck on Mar 24, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nightmares

Those of us who suffered through August 2008 might disagree.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 24, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, sorry

I somehow missed the can’t.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 24, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its cool

That’s exactly what I think of when I consider Guerrier closing.

by bbeeck on Mar 24, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean

that as a reason to NOT use Guerrier as the closer, right? Ha ha..

by bbeeck on Mar 24, 2010 12:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Perk is mad at FO.

What’s Duesing thinking now? After he pitched so well last year.

by b1 on Mar 24, 2010 1:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Maybe Duensing can replace Condrey

Condrey has an option. He’s not getting it done (another rough outing today). Let him earn his way onto our bullpen.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 24, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Twitter speculation

Just followed some of the Twitter speculation, and there is a thought that this move also sets up a Liriano to the closer, Duensing to the 5th starter possibility. It certainly does.

by dctwin on Mar 24, 2010 1:44 PM EDT reply actions  

I hope not

I am super excited to see Liriano start again

by ckb on Mar 24, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still think that's silly.

Liriano as a good starter vs Liriano as a good closer…the value isn’t even close. He needs to start.

by Jesse on Mar 24, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

But, knowing nothing whatsoever about arm injuries, if someone told me that he just doesn’t have the arm strength to start post-TJ, I’d believe it based on his last couple of years. I really hope he gets a shot to start, though. We can make a closer easier than we can a starting pitcher.

by dctwin on Mar 24, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I knew what you meant.

I didn’t mean that as a gripe at you…more about silly speculation.

by Jesse on Mar 24, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

He pitched 200 quality innings in 2008

The only reason he ran out of gas last year is the year-after effect. I.e., when a guy has more than a 30% increase in innings from one year to the next, he has an extended dead arm period the following year. So he went from 0 innings to 200 innings from 2007 to 2008. 2009 wasn’t supposed to go well for him. (I could go back to the archives to show you how many peole predicted his 2009 slump on this site.)

Now that Liriano is past that, he has his arm strength back. He will be a very good starter this year. He’ll ultimately start playoff games, unless the Twins do something stupid and make him a closer.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 24, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is what I assumed

And also what I hope. But I’m just saying health is the only reason I’m buying for moving a guy like Liriano to the bullpen. Or maybe extreme duress, but I hardly think Rauch or Guerrier will be EXTREME duress. Duress, maybe. Not extreme.

by dctwin on Mar 24, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Slama

I’m fine with Duensing starting in AAA rather than warming the bench as the long man; I’m fine with sending down Perkins if he’s hurt or ineffective; what I don’t get is what their take is on Slama. Do they just think he’s not as good as his minor league numbers imply? Why is this not his time? Anyone know or care to speculate on what the Twins are thinking re Slama?

by by jiminy on Mar 24, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions  

A little off-topic

But I figured it was a good place since we’re talkin’ about signing pitchers…

Can anyone tell me, realistically, what the Twins chances are for trading for Heath Bell?

by urluckyday on Mar 24, 2010 5:32 PM EDT reply actions  

It would depend more on their budget situation than anything else.

For this season, the Twins’ insurance on Joe Nathan’s contract would help them absorb Bell’s salary, but NEXT season would be the issue, when Bell could be worth $10 million through arbitration.

The organization has the pieces to get it done if they want to, but the money next season might be a pretty big deal. When Nathan comes back, you don’t want to be paying two RP’s double-digit millions.

I still think it’s a long shot.

by Jesse on Mar 24, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd look at either...

1) John Smoltz. Hate to beat a dead horse here, but I think he’d be a great fit for 1 year and wouldn’t cost us talent in a trade. And he’s got an easy opt-out to play in his TBS contract.

2) I’d look to someone like Nathan was when we got him; Oakland seems to have some good relievers that could make good closers; Brad Ziegler or Michael Wuertz would both be great fits with great K ability.

by DJSkillz on Mar 24, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bonus points

Wuertz is from Austin, so he gets bonus points for the “hometown” factor.

I still think that the most likely move is standing pat.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Mar 25, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mahay

Mahay is pulling a Favre. He didn’t want to play all of Spring Training. Just show up a few weeks before the season and call it good!
:p

by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on Mar 24, 2010 11:48 PM EDT reply actions  

The stats of a non-closing relief pitcher usually look bad at first glance.
Mahay is 26-11 with a 3.86 ERA and four saves with eight teams in 13 Major League seasons.

473 games, 89 holds,
Inherited Score Percentage of 34%

by benhertz on Mar 25, 2010 9:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Why Mahay?

I think they signed Mahay because they want to start Neshek out in AAA. When Neshek is ready Mahay gets put on waivers.

I think they make Guerrier the closer. He might end up as a type A free agent if they get him 45 saves. I think he’s the one upcoming Twin free agent worth offering arbitration to also. Turning Matt Guerrier into a 1st round draft pick would be a coup.

by DJL44 on Mar 25, 2010 10:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Just threw up in my mouth

Not bad though. Turkey with stuffing, mashed potatoes and gravy. Almost better the second time around.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 25, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's so wrong with Guerrier?

Yeah, he had a horrible 2008. He was also great last year and in 2007, also in a ton of appearances. He pitched in pressure situations last year and wasn’t a “choker”. I don’t get the hate, other than bad memories from ’08.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Mar 25, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

yah

neither do I. Guerrier has been the one consistent man in that bullpen for several years, besides a rocky 2008. Nathan at times as not been nearly as secure as Guerrier. Furthermore, relief pitchers generally only last about 3 years with effectiveness, after that they generally fall off the table.

It is amazing that Guerrier has been able to hang in there for so long…Guerrier seems like he should be a 39 year old. He gives that impression on the mound at least. Guerrier is crafty, not over powering, and gets guys out with well placed pitches. He doesn’t blow them away…I am glad the Twins have such a great relief pitcher like Guerrier. He certainly makes the bullpen more secure.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett

by BCTwins on Mar 25, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

bad memories from ’08.

These were not your garden variety bad memories. These are like Apocalypse Now memories. I hear choppers!

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 25, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

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