Nathan Has Torn Ulnar Collateral Ligament, Likely Out for Year
by RandBall's Stu on Mar 9, 2010 9:10 AM EST
in News
85 comments
Update #2, 8:55 am [Jesse]
Below is an image of the UCL, where it is and what it looks like:
Nathan has said he'll try to come back and throw in a couple of weeks, but obviously if he's still in pain it means Tommy John surgery. We'll talk about that if it needs to happen.
A few telling quotes:
Ron Gardenhire on who closes: "You have to start a process. We’ve got candidates (in camp). If we have to go that route, we’ll find it.”
Joe Nathan: "If it’s like it was on Saturday (when he was pulled from the game with elbow pain), there’s just no chance.”
"If I’m able to go out there and throw, I’ll definitely give it a shot."
-------------------
(Update #1, via LaVelle: Nathan will attempt to pitch with it in a couple weeks. If he can't make it, he'll have surgery. I assume the surgery in question is Tommy John.)
So Tweeted Joe C. 15 minutes ago. More updates as they become available.
Do you need me to tell you that this sucks? Because THIS SUCKS.
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Will Carrol, baseball injury dude, is on KSTP
Says sometimes people throw with torn UCLs (analogous to towing with a frayed rope), but it’s not especially common. Lots of fantasizing about possible trade targets. Maybe Heath Bell?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OH MY GOD.
And I was having such a good morning… is it too early to start drinking?
http://www.realityfish.com
Also, can I just say that Mauer ought to announce today or tomorrow?
Because that would really cheer everyone up. C’mon, Joe. We’re kinda freaking out over here. At least I am.
http://www.realityfish.com
Dude totally lost his moment
I have to admit that (potentially) losing Nathan tempers my enthusiasm for the Mauer contract, just a bit. We went from undoubtedly the best twins team I can remember to probably the best twins team I can remember. Oh well. This is what the Twins do – fill holes. But uuuuuuuuuugh!
Well, I don't think the Twins will be comfortable unless they're overcoming sixty million problems.
They survive on the underdog mentality, so I admit, I have been worried about how they’ll handle all this expectation. Mind you, I’d rather have THAT problem than a rash of injuries.
http://www.realityfish.com
Heard the same thing
Well someone will have to step up this year.
Rauch has closing experience
MLBTR mentions kerry wood, heath bell, jason frasor
A guy that has been discussed before is MINN native Mike Wuertz. If anyone remembers the trade deadline rumors.
Oakland could probably trade him since they are loaded w/ relievers Bailey, Devine, Ziegler, Breslow ,etc
Settle down
We still don’t know for sure that he’s out for the season.
If he is out, it’s a huge loss….for my fantasy baseball team since I had NO BACKUP CLOSER!!!
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Mar 9, 2010 9:51 AM EST reply actions
Bad News
But I’ve always thought closers were extremely overrated. The final inning is more tense and more important sure, but its not worth $10 million dollars (Nathan’s contract) to a team like the Twins. The Twins have lost a good reliever which sucks, but in the scheme of things there are a few decent relief prospects in the system and the relief corps as a whole was a strength for the club to begin with.
It hurts but its nothing like losing a position player or a starting pitcher and it offers an opportunity to see if one of the young prospects (slama) can come up and fill the void. I wouldn’t trade for another reliever as you’d probably give up way too much for someone you don’t even need that bad. Hope Neshek can step up too.
It has more to do with the mentality of the pitcher, I think.
Yes, technically speaking, the ninth inning is no more difficult than any other inning. But pitchers can really build it up in their heads, and as we all know, pitchers are delicate little creatures. Look at LaTroy Hawkins — great reliever, but absolutely went to pieces every time he was asked to close. We’ve got solid arms in relief, but it’s hard to know who among them will become basket cases if sent out in the ninth.
Personally, I think it’s Rauch to start with. Neshek’s being groomed, but they can’t possibly put that on him right now. Crain was also being groomed, but he’s still got some question marks on him. Rauch doesn’t even need to pitch that well — a good glare from the mound, and his opponents will slink back to the dugout without even taking their bats of their shoulders.
http://www.realityfish.com
I agree.
I doubt the Twins look outside the organization at all, unless something falls in their lap. Plenty of depth at this position, and as much as it hurts I think this is actually a position where the Twins can absorb a major injury.
I might have missed something last year
What happened to Slama at Rochester? I thought he was becoming a total shutdown closer in the minors.
+1
If Nathan’s out for the year (likely), I think Rauch starts out as closer. It’s a downgrade from Nathan, but with Mijares, Guerrier, Crain and Condrey we’ve got some depth. This may end up opening a spot for Liriano/Duensing/Perkins, whoever misses out on the #5 spot. Also, while Neshek will probably start in Rochester, it probably means he gets called up sooner than otherwise. And Delaney / Slama have a more clear path if they tear up AAA.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 9, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Sucks to lose one of the best in the business, but it is probably one of the least important positions on the team especially with the power that this years team is going to have. Look at the Phillies last year, they managed to go to the series with a closer that had a 7+ ERA and double digit (?) blown saves.
We just have to nope this injury nonsense doesn’t catch on around the clubhouse
by Disorderly Conduct on Mar 9, 2010 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
That's crazy for you guys.
I remember him being taken out against my Sox and thinking it was probably just a pitch count after walking a couple of guys. Now this?
Wow.
USG
Ugh...
Regardless of the fact that we have options, its never easy to lose an all-star closer. Ugh.
Cold-hearted business question
If Nathan is out for the year, does that mean that his salary will be picked up by insurance, freeing up some payroll? That would probably factor heavily into whether the Twins look for a replacement from outside the organization (which I don’t really think they need to do). I’ve heard that most franchises get insurance on their big contracts, but I have no idea how it actually works.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
I was just about to post this question myelf
Most big contracts are insured, though it can be sometimes difficult to fully insure pitchers’ contracts.
by Eric in Madison on Mar 9, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
He was overpaid anyway
does anyone know, if he goes on the DL for the year do the Twins have insurance money?
by montanatwinsfan on Mar 9, 2010 10:36 AM EST reply actions
It's insured
But very few such contracts are insured at 100%.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
How much?
I’d want to know how much. 5 million? 7 million? That would be plenty enough to pay for a new acquisition. Take a flyer on Smoltz? Even try for Kerry Wood?
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
the first thing I heard this morning was this news on ESPN
I was hoping I was it was a bad dream
WAKE UP
I think I'm ok....now
Yes it sucks, but I am fairly comfortable with…..
7th Neshek & Miljares
8th Guerrier
9th Rauch
It doesnt seem that bad. Rauch seems to have a closer type attitude and with plenty of time to work on it we should be ok…..
ITS ONLY 1 INNING DAMNIT, CANT WE GET 3 OUTS FROM SOMEONE!!!
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
Thomas Jefferson
by RileysCannibalJct on Mar 9, 2010 10:40 AM EST reply actions
"Closer type attitude"
Is that code for “he’s scary as hell”? B/c, if so, I concur. :)
Yeah...
ITS ONLY 1 INNING DAMNIT, CANT WE GET 3 OUTS FROM SOMEONE!!!
I recall saying this a LOT last year. Rauch as closer might work, but man it hurts to have Nathan out (if it’s decided that he is indeed too injured to pitch). :(
RonGarde: Target Field is going to be exactly like Progressive Field, except you'll have a chance to die of frostbite in the middle of July
I cant recall
Any pitcher taking a couple weeks off and returning to pitch without pain. I would say its all but 101% that hes done. Sucks….
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
Thomas Jefferson
by RileysCannibalJct on Mar 9, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Memories of the Yankees series come to mind...
Only three outs…
by Adam Peterson on Mar 9, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Liriano
I always thought Liriano would make a good closer. He always goes through the lineup well once and then gets hammered. As a closer, hitters wouldn’t have that extra at bat to adjust to him.
He's, at least for the moment, tearing it up as a starter.
Given Perkins and Duensing so far, Liriano’s gonna be the fifth in the rotation. He’s much more valuable there if he can pull it off. Even if he was a great closer, the likelihood of his upgrade over Rauch will almost certainly not offset the downgrade of the fifth spot to Duensing in his current form. (Still think Duensing will kick ass with a little more seasoning.)
http://www.realityfish.com
Suck
Should have listened to my rants….should have traded him…
is this
appropriate enough news where I need to take a day off of work? So many distraught Twins fans during what is supposed to be a happy time. Stupid baseball Gods.
by Milt on Tilt on Mar 9, 2010 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
thanks for speaking up
when I read this story, the first thing to come to mind was that someone here was saying the Twins should move Nathan…
feel free to share your lotto numbers and your picks for the NCAA’s
I dont play Lotto
nor watch college basketball…but I think I know what’s gonna happen in LOST if that’s any help to ya.
by Milt on Tilt on Mar 9, 2010 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
I'm willing to wait and see how LOST ends
but can I have a raincheck on you explaining what the hell it means?
10 episodes left and still lots of splain’in to do…
Good
cause I lied. I’m actually not even into Season 6 yet. 12 episodes behind.
To those saying it's not a big deal...
You are NUTS. Regardless of what you think about the closing position, he is by far our best reliever. This is going to hurt.
Will we still have a strong bullpen? Probably. But significantly less so.
All this is under the assumption that he’ll need the surgery… But I’m going to assume the worst for now.
by PurplePeopleEaters on Mar 9, 2010 11:00 AM EST reply actions
it hurts but not to the level many will think it does
I can think of probably ten players I’d be more concerned with losing this year. All of our starting rotation, Mauer, Morneau, Span, Cuddy, and probably even JJ Hardy and OHud.
So yes he’s our best relief pitcher but he’s just that, a relief pitcher. If there’s one spot the Twins look very strong in it’s in the bullpen. Guerrier, Rauch, Neshek, Mijares, and Crain are all capable of being good to great setup men. One of, or a collaboration of them will be able to handle the role. This isn’t crippling.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
I never said it has as big an impact as losing a position player. But it’s a guy we have a lot money tied up in, and is one of the elite relievers in baseball. Not crippling, no, but still significant.
Plus, it’s the difference between knowing you’re going to win with a lead in the 9th, or not knowing. Which is important, IMO. Hopefully someone can fill the role, but we all know that great set-up men can cave under the pressure of closing.
The sky is not falling, but it’s not something I wanted to hear today. ;)
by PurplePeopleEaters on Mar 9, 2010 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
sky not falling . . . still sucks . . . everything will be ok . . . .
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Everything will be even better
if Mauer would announce his contract today. That might cure some of the doom and gloom in Twins Territory.
RonGarde: Target Field is going to be exactly like Progressive Field, except you'll have a chance to die of frostbite in the middle of July
Despair, nashing of teeth
First thought: #%# #)%#) #%& @**# Mother #*^ !!!!!!!!
Second thought: Insurance?! What’s out insurance?!
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
THIS DOES SUCK!
I knew something was obviously wrong after seeing the video of him pitching.
I’m just hoping for the best 2 weeks from now.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Mar 9, 2010 11:02 AM EST reply actions
Trades?
George Sherrill playing for the Dodgers as the 8th inning guy? What do you guys think? Not sure what we could give, I would rather see them fix the problem from within, but who knows.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
Thomas Jefferson
by RileysCannibalJct on Mar 9, 2010 11:14 AM EST reply actions
I'm 98% sure that's what the Twins will do.
Going outside the org doesn’t make a lot of sense with how deep the Twins are with bullpen arms.
Another Question.
If Nathan does get the surgery and gets moved to the 60 day DL, who will get his roster spot?
"If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error." - John Kenneth Galbraith.
by 92 MPH Knuckleball on Mar 9, 2010 11:21 AM EST reply actions
Are you talking 25 man or 40 man
If you’re talking 25 man then one of the young guys will likely get a shot. So a bullpen of Rauch, Neshek, Mijares, Condrey, Guerrier, Crain, and one of Delaney/Slama/Duensing/Perkins?
If it’s 40 man I assume they’d just leave 39 on unless they needed to change it. We’re past the point of having to protect players from getting taken. The only players to worry about is Casilla not making the 25 man roster then he’d have to be put on waivers.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Sorry if this has been discussed or if it's completely idiotic:
Could they consider Liriano as a closer? Given Liriano’s history, he could be suited for the role.
Considering how well he's pitched over the winter,
if he does well as a starter, that’s where the Twins will reap the most value for him. If he struggles as a starter, they can try him in the bullpen…and then if he succeeds, they might try to work him in as a closer. But that would be a work in progress, and wouldn’t be in place by opening day. They’ll concentrate on Liriano as a starting pitcher first.
Thanks to you both ↑↓
Makes sense.
I was thinking of Kerry Wood and John Smoltz when considering Liriano for closer. But I agree his mental fortitude may still be lagging behind the two aforementioned names.
I used to be a big fan of Liriano as a closer.
However, I’ve changed my tune. I think he definitely has the stuff but I wonder if he has the head for the job. I really think closing is much more mentality than any other position in the game.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
F%$#!!!
that about sums it up.
I was really concerned when they gave him a 4 year deal, that the back end was likely going to mean we were paying Nathan to rehab.
At least we have the club option in 2012.
Schiesse!
Well, this blows a right amount of goats.
However, while it hurts the team, it won’t be terrible by any means. Even the elite closers like Rivera and Nathan only provide 2 WAR to the team, maximum. If everybody can pitch fairly similar to what they did last year, and Neshek can provide a middle innings boost, I think they’ll be able to compensate alright for his loss.
Who knows.
Maybe our offense will continually rout our opponents, making the issue moot. Just trying to be optimistic here.
"If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error." - John Kenneth Galbraith.
by 92 MPH Knuckleball on Mar 9, 2010 1:12 PM EST reply actions
Bummer......
Well, when a major player goes down, one can cry because THERE IS crying in baseball.
Should the Twins move Liriano to the bullpen. NOT! He is showing signs of returning as a started and since the Twins didn’t go get that 5th stud (Washburn), he ahs a spot in the rotation. It is his to lose.
Do the Twins need to search out a closer? Are other teams looking for a closer? The price has to be high as spring training winds down, unless the guy is a total junker…and the Twins readily have such a thing, themselves.
Who closes for the Twins?
Rauch, Guerrier and, to a lesser extent, Crain can all have an opportunity. I don’t want to see closer by committee, but all three should get a periodic shot as it (1) gives us a look at who can close in 2011 if the call happens and (2) increases the value of any of the three down the stretch if the Twins feel the need to trade pitching.
Can the Twins trade pitching? Yes, but not today. They have strength in numbers and it looks like there would now be room for both a Perkins and a Neshek in the bullpen. No need to send ANeshek down to Rochester unless the Twins see a need for a couple of long arms (Swarzak or Duensing, it is your job to lose).
If Neshek goes to Rochester, and I would kinda like to see this happen for at least a month, then, wow, look at what the Twins have in the wings to cycle into the bullpen…Brunett, Delaney, Slama, Neshek, Lugo just for starters!
Nathan would go on the 60-day Injured Reserve List. A roster spot would open. The Twins could have Jacque Jones move into the roster, if necessary, or any of the youngsters that have spring training invites if they shine, shine, shine.
In someways, it is a wonderful and competitive spring for a few players. Casilla, Tolbert have jobs they can lose. There is now two bullpen spots open to be filled by many (Neshek, Perkins, Duensing, Swarzak, Manship et al).
The onlky one that might have a gold star chance of staying, even if crappy, is out-of-options Alexi. But it should be fun to see hw things iron out.
And, remember, with the Twins current line-up, maybe the need for a closer to protect a 1-2 run lead may not be as important as it once was. If the starters pitch as they are capable of pitching, the hitters slug the crapola out of the ball…we just need a rotating bullpen to finish games to keep our 6-inning starters from flaming out!
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
maddening
This is what has always annoyed me so much about the Twins. How much did this test cost to have done? And why didn’t they do it in November? This is absolutely ridiculous they waited four months to have this done. That’s four months of recovery time (and how many millions are we paying this guy) lost all because they just like to sit on their hands instead of running relatively inexpensive tests.
The test...
Where the Twins FO hops in their DeLorean and finds out what happens in the future, duh!
by JTW on Mar 9, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
The injury happened on Saturday.
Any test done in November wouldn’t have shown anything wrong except for the bone spurs (which he had removed, to prevent having a problem with that later.)
I see no reason to be annoyed with the Twins in this situation.
What would be annoying
Is if they have him rehab it for 3 months only to have surgery anyhow and then lose him for 2011 as well.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
+1
I really hope they don’t do what you said
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Mar 9, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Another annoying thing is if the doctor screwed up and nicked the ligament during the clean out
But this is James Andrews, the guy who perfected the procedure. So, I doubt that’s what happened.
More likely, there was a small tear last year from the bone spur that went undected in MRI or surgery. It turned into a severe tear under the strain of throwing too hard too soon this spring.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Hey Jesse!
What are we even gonna do with Glen Perkins??? Why don’t we trade him? I mean, even if its for a middle reliever for some extra depth, Heath Bell for Glen and a prospect??? I know we have alot of depth within but we have no need for Glen! Duensing has the most potential but with Liriano coming around he will be sent back to the minors! I also think we should see about John Smoltz for a year! Your thoughts?
Lets go offer Jon Rauch
and Rob Delaney along with Glen Perkins
for Trevor Hoffman of the Milwaukee Brewers, we’ll take Odorizzi as well if its ok… ;)
Wow Blackburn makes nearly identical money as Baker does now....
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Mar 9, 2010 5:16 PM EST reply actions
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