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Around SBN: MLB Trade Deadline: Where each team stands right now

Post-Joe Nathan Freakout Reality Check: Everything Is Going To Be Okay

Joe Nathan is probably out for the year, yes, but all is not lost.

Nathan's just come off of a very successful campaign in his age-34 season, recording a career-high 47 saves while striking out 1.3 batters per inning.  If he was slowing down, he had an odd way of showing it.  No doubt he had a rough patch at the end of the season, but there was little reason to believe it was anything more than a rough stretch.

Going into his age-35 season in 2010, Nathan was expected to join the Mariano Rivera's, Dennis Eckersley's and Trevor Hoffman's of the closer world--guys who managed to continue to be elite closers in spite of being at an age where the game's best burn out or fade away.  Now things are a little different.

As Will Carroll mentioned here earlier today, the number of pitchers who continue to pitch with a torn UCL and be successful is very small.  By waiting and giving Nathan time to rest, the organization is doing two things:  hoping for a miracle, and giving their All-Star pitcher some time to wrap his head around baseball's most infamous surgery.  Read:  barring a miracle, Nathan will undergo Tommy John surgery.  If not by the end of the month, at some point during the season if he intends to continue playing beyond this year.

That's what we've all come to terms with today:  Joe Nathan is probably out for the year, because he will elect to go under the knife.

Questions and answers after the break.

Star-divide

How long would it take Nathan to come back?

Rehabbing from Tommy John surgery takes roughly 12 months.  "Recovery" isn't an exact science when we talk about TJ, however, and you can realistically add months onto that year before a pitcher is considered "all the way back".  Which of course assumes the pitcher falls into the 93% success rate of the operation.  It's a gruelling rehab process, both physically and mentally.

Considering his age, could this be the beginning of the end of Nathan's career?

I see two options.  In one world, Nathan decides this will be his swan song.  He guts through the pain, probably isn't the same guy he's been his six seasons in Minnesota, then hangs it up after this year; he avoids the surgery.  In another world, he undergoes the surgery and hopefully is back early next season.  Maybe he's the same guy, but he probably wouldn't be...it's a gamble.  And it's a lot of work for a 36-year old to make a comeback.  That's nothing against Nathan, that's just how it is.

Without blowing it out of proportion at this point, yes, it's possible this could be the beginning of the end for Joe.  I hope not.

The Twins have insurance for instances like this, right?  How much would they save?

This I'm not entirely sure about, because there's nothing I can find that says the Twins have insurance on Joe's contract.  But if they do, which is likely as he's one of the highest-paid players on the team, then the following applies...

Obviously if he were to miss 2011 in addition to 2010, the Twins would get more of their investment back, but if it's just this season then this is what I know:

  • Nathan would spend the number of days required on the disabled list to qualify for coverage (45-90 days)
  • If the research I found is accurate, contracts are generally insured for 50-60% of their value on career-ending injuries or temporary total disability
  • Only top-end contracts for teams are insured
  • It will be a bit of a waiting game, because the earlier the Twins claim, the higher their premium would be
  • In January, Tom Tango of The Book had an article on insurance in baseball.  He links to another article of his from two years ago, but it seems that article is specifically about the NHL, and it slightly contradicts other information I've found.  But it seems plausible that this could be how baseball works as well.

Great.  So the Twins can use some of that money to bring in another veteran closer, whether that's through trade or free agency, right?

No.  First, the Twins wouldn't get that money for a while.  Second, even if they did, there's not a lot of incentive for the Twins do do it.  Replacing Joe Nathan is impossible.  You can't just go out and whip up a magical batch of elite closer to bring out of the oven on April 1.

But what about a guy like John Smoltz?

Let's not throw money away.  Smoltz hasn't closed since 2004, hasn't been healthy for a full season since 2007 and turns 43 in May.  Oh, and throwing him to the wolves American League?

The Twins would have to get Jim Pohlad to sign off on anything they do, because they're already over-budget anyway.  Free agency just isn't a realistic option.

Okay, how about Francisco Liriano?

After his dazzling winter, he's the favorite to nab the final starter spot.  A starter's role will always be more valuable than that of a closer, which means that the Twins can reap the most benefits by having an effective Liriano in the rotation as opposed to the bullpen.

If Liriano struggles as a starter, the Twins could try him in the bullpen.  Should he succeed there, there's always the possibility that they could try him in the closer's role but this wouldn't be by April 1.  That would be down the line.  It's pretty much a great-in-theory-but-crackpot-in-reality theory.

So what the hell are the Twins going to do?!?

The Twins will fill the role internally.  Bank on it.  Whether this means that Ron Gardenhire goes with closer-by-committee, or with a preferred one-man approach, is the only question.  Jon Rauch is probably the best option to close, while Matt Guerrier, Jesse Crain and Jose Mijares will all have their opportunities to show what they can do.  Down the line, when Pat Neshek proves he's ready to get major league hitters out, he might get a shot, too.

Closing is just as much about mental dexterity as it is pitching talent, and this is the biggest question mark the Twins have in regards to whoever they chose to be their new man for the role.

As FanGraphs points out, the Twins are probably skimming one or two wins off the top by losing Nathan.  Additionally, now that everyone will be promoted in the bullpen heirarchy the cascade effect might play havoc with some guys who aren't used to their new roles.  Fortunately, and this goes for whoever gets the seventh spot in the bullpen, the depth of quality that the Twins have in their relief corps should mitigate any additional damage.  Rob Delaney, Anthony Slama, Alex Burnett, Glen Perkins, Brian Duensing...those are some great options as far as your "bottom of the barrel" bullpen arm goes.

Conclusions

Losing Joe Nathan hurts.  Of course it does, he's one of the game's premier closers.  But the bullpen was a position of strength for a reason, and it continues to be.  The Twins have a number of options to pick up the reigns of the closer, and all of them are good enough to take the job.  Save rates are high league-wide for a reason.  And without minimizing what Joe Nathan means to the Twins (as opposed to the role of the closer), it would have hurt much more to lose our best starting pitcher or one of our best position players for the season.

The Twins have a lot of good pitchers.  Everything is going to be fine, and the Twins are still the best team in the AL Central.

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If there's a team in the Central that can handle this,

it’s definitely the team with Joe Mauer.

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by Justin Bopp on Mar 9, 2010 9:52 PM EST reply actions  

True.

He could probably close.

by Jesse on Mar 9, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

And catch at the same tine.

Good article Jesse, great title.

"I couldn't do that. Could you do that? Why can they do it? Who are those guys?"

by maxisagod on Mar 9, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Who is he, the Flash?

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Mar 9, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

The real question is

Could Joe Mauer throw a pitch so nasty that not even he could hit it?

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Mar 9, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

No

but he’d field the ball at the warning track, hit Joe Mauer the cutoff man, then tag himself out at the plate on the throw home.

by ckb on Mar 10, 2010 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

The return

Pat Neshek very quickly being what he was two years ago, again, is now of pretty high importance, I’d say.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Mar 9, 2010 10:27 PM EST reply actions  

They could

The Twins should just sign this guy
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=4145564

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Mar 9, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

The Yankees losing Rivera would be much worse

than what the Twins are facing. Central Division, strong offensive line-up, deep bull pen. The big issue this year is their starting pitching. None of that changes.

Truth is, Nathan had lost something by the end of last year. Everyone will deny that his elbow had anything to do with it, but, there will be questions. Maybe even legal ones from an insurance company. He was not right at the end of last year. And so, to think that he would have been the same ol Joe this year was always just a hope.

I don’t see him closing again. Ever. At his age, Tommy John? That’s at least two years of rehab. He’ll do it because it’s worth ten million dollars to follow that road, but, c’mon, it’s already a young man’s game. Try throwing an 85 mph slider. Look at Liriano, after three years, finally getting close.

What seems bizarre is blowing out your elbow in your first ST game. Why would you even try that hard? Between the end of last year and losing it in your first appearance of ST, something is not right about this. Why a guy wouldn’t just throw fastballs his first time out after surgery…? Really seems like hubris…. poor judgement… or an injury waiting to happen.

He will be missed. As Mauer said, as much off the field as on it.

by Old Twins Cap on Mar 9, 2010 10:36 PM EST reply actions  

Timeline

While I don’t neccesarily disagree that he might think of hanging it up, he could definitely be back, or at least healthy, by next season. Most pitchers can rehab in 9-12 months. Our recent experiences with Neshek and Liriano were unusual due to their age and the timing.

But honestly, he’s still under contract for 2011, so if he wants to get paid, he’ll get the surgery and do the rehab.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Mar 9, 2010 10:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, there was something wrong at the end of last year

He had bone chips in his elbow, and had surgery for it.

As for blowing out your elbow…at some point, it just happens. The ligament weakens, and eventually it goes. Not sure how hard he was throwing had much to do with it.

by Eric in Madison on Mar 9, 2010 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

We were at the game

He didn’t seem to be throwing all that hard. He looked fine (until he hurt his arm – very obvious after the fact), not like he was pushing himself though.

by GACTwinFan on Mar 9, 2010 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

Yeah, I’m pretty sure this was not his first time on the mound throwing a heater since surgery…

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Mar 9, 2010 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I've been looking...

…for optimism all day. I want to hear from different people that everything is going to be okay, that this injury won’t ruin our hopes of being competitive and winning a second straight division title.

by Twins Territory on Mar 9, 2010 10:36 PM EST reply actions  

Outside Candidates

Apparently the Twins are weighing this option. The Star Tribune reports that the team had a teleconference on Monday night with their scouts and other personnel, and they began compiling a list of external candidates.

The Twins began compiling a list of external candidates to replace Joe Nathan late Monday night, when their scouts joined a teleconference and learned disturbing news about the closer’s right elbow.

Also, the Blue Jays have Jason Frasor and need starting pitching. Perkins comes to mind, and they had two scouts at the game today (although it’s probably a coincidence).

Meanwhile, the Twins will explore all trade avenues. One intriguing name is Blue Jays righthander Jason Frasor. He had 11 saves and a 2.50 ERA last year, he’ll be a free agent at season’s end, and the Blue Jays have other closer options in Kevin Gregg and Scott Downs.

The Blue Jays had two scouts at Hammond Stadium on Tuesday, as the Twins played the Cardinals. That could be a coincidence, of course, but the Blue Jays have rotation question marks, and those scouts saw a seventh-inning appearance by potential Twins trade chip, Glen Perkins.

by Twins Territory on Mar 9, 2010 10:39 PM EST reply actions  

Frasor

Frasor is and option, so is Kerry Wood, along with a couple other options out there (Scott downs). This is why the insurance is interesting to me. None of these guys would be an elite level option, but would give us another good bullpen option on a team that just lost one.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Mar 9, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Indeed

No internal or external option can replace Joe Nathan. With that said, if there is a guy like Frasor who could come for someone like Glen Perkins and post a solid ERA, etc., it makes sense to look.

by Twins Territory on Mar 9, 2010 10:45 PM EST up reply actions  

My Brain

After thinking about this a bit, my brain is disappointed, but not as much as my nerves. My brain knows we just lost a 2 WAR player who’s value is probably greater than that due to the very high leverage innings he pitches, but his value is less than that to the Twins because they have many good candidates to replaces him and won’t be replacing him with a 0 WAR player.

My nerves are literally quaking in fear, because every time whoever or poor closer ends up being blows a save, there will be very much cursing of the skies and nashing of teeth and wondering what might have been had we had damn Joe Nathan around.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Mar 9, 2010 10:49 PM EST reply actions  

And I hate "What might have beens"

It seems like every time we get to a point where the expectations are soaring, something like this happens. What might have been if Liriano didn’t get hurt? What might have been if we had Morneau last off-season? The list goes on…

That too is my biggest fear, and I’m hoping we won’t be saying this next fall.

by Twins Territory on Mar 9, 2010 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Gallows Humor

The thign that will save me if Heath Bell blows game 7 of the ALCS at Target Field and the Red Sox go to the World Series instead:

“Hey, it’s no different than nathan last year anyway…”

RIMSHOT

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Mar 9, 2010 10:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Still waiting for the "Everything is going to be okay" part

Is Brett Favre available for the summer?

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"All morons hate it when you call them a moron." -Holden Caufield

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Mar 9, 2010 10:58 PM EST reply actions  

The time to pick up a closer

is in July, before the trade deadline. Expect the Twins to try what they have for now, and see how it works. If they need a closer to get to the World Series, they will have the chance to trade for one at the deadline.

But again, all this assumes we were going to get Joe Nathan, the ace closer. We didn’t have that at the end of last year in any case, so I don’t understand the gnashing of teeth. It’s a new year, a new team and a new way to win has to be found.

I’m liking our chances. The lineup is potent and balanced, the young pitchers look strong, the bullpen is deep. Let’s play ball!

by Old Twins Cap on Mar 9, 2010 11:33 PM EST up reply actions  

if they wait until the deadline

closers will cost a bunch more in trade

Beadlemaniacs - Award winning* college basketball blog (new and improved!)
Olympics!

by fetch9 on Mar 10, 2010 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Assistant GM Rob Antony (who did a great interview with Jesse here recently) provided some comments on the Joe Nathan injury and the immediate future.

by Twins Territory on Mar 9, 2010 11:09 PM EST reply actions  

What if?

I was thinking about this today and started thinking of the good young pitchers the Twins have, especially in Neshek and Mijares. I say those two because they’re young and under team control for awhile. Let’s say that during the first couple months one of those two gets put in the closer role and flourishes. Then what do the Twins do come next year. Does Nathan become the 11 million dollar setup guy? Can they really drop either of the other two down to setup if they prove they can handle the role? It’s a very real possibility. The Twins would possibly find themselves in the same spot the Red Sox are in with Mike Lowell next year. It would be interesting to see if Nathan would accept a setup/middle reliever role coming back from injury.

I have to agree with Old Twins Cap to an extent. I don’t necessarily think Nathan is done closing but I don’t know if he’ll ever be the Twins closer again. I actually expect one of the above scenarios to take place or for the Twins to make a trade for Heath Bell who would be under control for 2 years. Time will tell, I’ll miss Nathan but at his age I just don’t know what to expect honestly.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Mar 9, 2010 11:59 PM EST reply actions  

New ESPN post on why Twins should be ok

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/tmi-mlb/post?id=628

Rauch and Guerrier excel at a lot of the things that made Nathan and Rivera among the AL’s best over the last three seasons.

by Nicks2Cents on Mar 10, 2010 12:12 AM EST reply actions  

yeah

those fools who dare get on base vs mighty Rauch!

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett

by 33MorneauMVP on Mar 10, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Two things ...

One good (maybe), one bad (probably).
If this Joe is a no go for ’11, could this free up some dough for the local Joe?
How much egg does the front office have on their face after announcing the Caribou Coffee/Joe Nathan ad campaign not a day before all this?

by JRut on Mar 10, 2010 1:28 AM EST reply actions  

Now that I've had time to reflect

and climb down from the ledge, a few thoughts come to mind:

- I can live with Rauch-Guerrier-Mijares at the back end of the bullpen, but we’ve gone from an above average bullpen with Nathan to an average or below average pen.

- External options like Perkins for Frasor are interesting, but Frasor’s making $2.65M this year. The only way we take on any salary, IMO, is if we recover some money from Nathan’s contract via insurance.

- I hate to say it, but we may have seen the last of Joe Nathan in a Twins uniform. If he undergoes Tommy John surgery within the next month or two, I don’t think we’re talking about a 12 month recovery period. More likely around 18 months. Which puts us past all the remaining guaranteed years on his contract. And would we pick up a $12.5M option in 2012? Probably not.

- And the worst potential aspect here…does the Nathan injury make the front office less willing to sign Mauer to 8+ years? Perhaps not, but it certainly doesn’t make a long term contract more palatable…

by Adam Peterson on Mar 10, 2010 8:25 AM EST reply actions  

The Star Tribune seemed to indicate that the team does have an insurance policy on Joe Nathan and that they could recover “as much as half of this year’s deal.” An interesting note was that the team recovered money when Milton got hurt and used it to sign Kenny Rogers (who helped us to a division title).

by Twins Territory on Mar 10, 2010 8:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Honestly, it's the money.

I think it really sucks to lose Joe. But even when we had him fully functional, there was talk about how having such an expensive closer might not have been the most economically sound decision for a less-than-large market team like the Twins.

And now that Joe is potentially shelved, this argument is even stronger. We simply can’t have 10% of our budget invested in a guy who’s not playing, and who may never play for us again.

To be frank, I think this situation is a great lesson for us to learn for the future. If Pat Neshek turns out to be a Joe Nathan caliber closer, trade him when his value is high and replace him with a lower cost guy that might only be worth 1.0 WAR instead of Joe’s (and future Pat’s) 2.0 WAR.

by werddrew on Mar 10, 2010 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Would you trade?

Perkins + Cassilla for Wood + 5 Mil?

Solves our closer and 25 man problems…

What do you think?

by Diezel on Mar 10, 2010 10:59 AM EST reply actions  

With Nathan likely out for the season,

I don’t think the Twins have much of a 25-man roster problem anymore. Casilla will probably make the team as the second infielder off the bench, and Perkins probably just became the favorite for the 7th RP spot.

Besides, Wood comes with risks of his own. Not only do the Twins not have the money to pick up his salary, but because he’s in the same division as Minnesota I doubt the Indians would be happy with Perk and Casilla.

Whatever happens it’s going to be interesting to watch.

by Jesse on Mar 10, 2010 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Casilla

He still has to deal with Tolbert though. I agree that unless Casilla just stinks he’ll likely be our utility guy with Harris or Punto. Perkins still has an option right? At least that’s what the media has said I thought.

I think the only guy I’d like to go get as an upgrade over what we have is Heath Bell. The only way that happens is if we get money back from Joe Nathan.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Mar 10, 2010 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Hypothetically...

Assuming (a) the Indians offered this to us (I don’t think they would) and (b) we recovered around half of Nathan’s salary through insurance, then I’d pull the trigger to get Kerry Wood. I don’t think it’s a move we need to make, but it would help.

by Adam Peterson on Mar 10, 2010 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Francisco Cordero available

But it would require the Reds to eat salary and probably require Rauch in trade.

by DJL44 on Mar 10, 2010 11:35 AM EST reply actions  

One "No" Vote on Wood

I haven’t looked at the numbers, but it seems to me Wood is not that great a closer. Feel free to prove that assertion wrong, of course – like I said, I’m going on anecdotals here. But anyway, at this later point in his career, with his history of DL stints and the fact the Cubs (the Cubs! He was the face of the team and once threw a 20-K game for them!) couldn’t justify keeping him around any longer for the $$ he commanded as their closer, opting to go with Kevin Gregg last year (who was atrocious), I’d rather take my chances with Shaggy or Mijares straight up. Throw in the fact you’d have to give up actual players to get Wood, too, and it’s not a good option at all in my mind.

The question is simply whether or not any of Rauch, Guerrier or Mijares has the mental makeup it takes to be a successful closer. Assuming one of them does, despite their stuff not being the equal of Nathan’s, the marginal difference between whichever one of them can be a good closer and any proven, more expensive closer we could get through trade or otherwise, just isn’t big enough to justify giving up prospects/spending more cash. At least in my mind.

by MCA1 on Mar 10, 2010 11:39 AM EST reply actions  

Wood

He was an all star closer for the Cubs in ’08.

If Nathan was insured and we could get Cle. to eat some of Wood’s salary, the salary would be managable to the Twins.

by Diezel on Mar 10, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Forget Wood. He’s trash. Ron Davis in a Superman cape.

by Old Twins Cap on Mar 10, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Relief

Let’s just hope a second pitcher doesn’t crumble from the Guerrier/Rauch/Mihjares/Neshek/Crain grouping.

Hey, Ron Mahay is still available, too.

Hopefully the Twins will score lots of run so a rotation of relievers can end games on a consistent level. The evils of having a powerful lineup is when to use the closer as the days mount that you don’t use one. Of course, the Twins scoring runs relies completely on the ability of the starters to keep their eras around 4.00 for their six (hopefully) innings of labor.

The Twns now have two pitching roster spots to fill. It would be ncie to have a long lefty for one (Duensing, Perkins). I would hope that Neshek could further stretch his arm out at Rochester for a month or two. Thus, an opening for possibly a long righty — Manship or Swarzak, for a cuple of months? The Twins are sitting good on minor league guys who can advance when a roster spot demands.

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Mar 10, 2010 12:13 PM EST reply actions  

Available free agent pitchers

Maybe not for closer, but to compete for a position in the bullpen.

Joe Beimel
Chad Bradford
Braden Looper
Pedro Martinez
Eric Milton (with him and Jacque it’s like a reunion!)
John Smoltz
Jarrod Washburn (10 cents says they’ve called his agent)

by DJL44 on Mar 10, 2010 1:46 PM EST reply actions  

Two Words

Trade Bait. We have too many starters right now anyways. Odds are we move Perkins or someone else that may be headed for the bullpen.

No way in HELL are we throwing out Guerrier or Rauch to close. Neither have the mental fortitude to close on a regular basis.

by Cobra312004 on Mar 10, 2010 2:59 PM EST reply actions  

Based on what?
No way in HELL are we throwing out Guerrier or Rauch to close. Neither have the mental fortitude to close on a regular basis.

What exactly makes you think that Guerrier and Rauch can’t handle closing? Rauch wasn’t exactly Mariano Rivera when he did it two years ago, but he has done it before with some level of success. If anything Rauch’s results show the opposite effect – he switched to setup when he was traded to a contender that already had a closer, and he was awful after the trade.

I hear the “it takes a special guy to become a closer” stuff all the time, but the last two times the Twins have put a guy there (Guardado, Nathan), he stuck despite not having closed before, and the only time I remember a guy failing solely because of the “mental fortitude” thing was LaTroy Hawkins. I have a feeling that guys who can handle the job, like Nathan, aren’t the exceptions – the exceptions are the guys like Hawkins who can’t.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Mar 10, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Myth perpetuated by sportswriters

For sportswriters everything is a mental issue. In reality it’s the stuff that separates the good closers from the bad. This myth of mental fortitude is throughout sports (clutch performance, choking, etc). It is a rare big league athlete that gets spooked when the game is on the line, those guys are weeded out before they make it to the majors.

Closing is quite often easier than setup relief. Closers generally start an inning with no baserunners, they usually have a lead to work with, they don’t necessarily face the meat of the order, they have a half-inning to warmup and prepare. Setup guys come in when the wheels are falling off and don’t always have time to prepare but generally have the platoon advantage. Setup guys also have the safety net of a closer and another inning. Pretty much all relief is high leverage in innings 8-9. The Twins will need 3 good pitchers to close out games, they just lost one.

by DJL44 on Mar 10, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

There are times when a closer needs to have nerves of steel

And there are times when he can breeze through the bottom of the order with a three-run lead and an ump who’s got an early dinner reservation. There are also times when a set-up guy needs nerves of steel. And there are times when he can breeze through a hold.

The one main difference is the closer typically operates without a safety net. Set-up guys get pulled at the first sign of trouble. A closer is expected to get the last three outs of the game without anybody warming up in the bullpen. That. more than anything, freaks some guys out. Most guys are fine with it. Some guys really thrive on it. You never know how a guy will do until he gets into the situation. If you get a guy who thrives on the pressure, he’s your man, assuming he’s a good pitcher, of course.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 11, 2010 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Enter the Beard

Guys…fear not!

Gardy will figure this out. It’s his job. He managed to put together a Central Division title last year with a team that was in MUCH WORSE shape than this one. To use his words, he found ways to “finagle” his way through.

BUT!

This will still hurt. That is why I am lowering my offical projection from 92 wins to an offical, Beard-authorized 90 wins.

The beard abides.

by Jason Kubel's Beard on Mar 10, 2010 4:14 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

I will believe The Beard

The Beard is wise and should not be angered

by caluofmn on Mar 10, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

find somebody

The Twins better find somebody in the organization who can step up and take on this role, or what seems small could snowball and get out of hand.

Losing Nathan puts immense pressure on the rest of the bullpen. We need to find somebody who can step up and take Nathan’s role, and somebody else to take on the role of the guy who stepped up, and so on.

by medicineball on Mar 10, 2010 11:06 PM EST reply actions  

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