What Are You Going to Do?
by RandBall's Stu on Jul 16, 2010 10:30 AM EDT
in Speculation
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PrintTrying to pinpoint the worst moment of last night's game is difficult. To wit:
- Kevin Slowey getting bludgeoned yet AGAIN. 5 quality starts in 18 total. It's almost like he wants to beat Nick Blackburn to Rochester.
- Alex Burnett catching his spike during his delivery, tripping and balking in the tying run.
- Master irritant A.J. Pierzynski providing the winning RBI after barking at Jim Thome earlier in the game.
- Brian Duensing coming down with the flu, preventing the Twins' best long reliever from coming into the game.
- The Twins scoring six runs on John Danks, seven runs in all, with the MVP hitting in the clutch like fans have been demanding all season, and it still wasn't enough.
- Nick Punto's mustache.
Adding to all that misery, the Twins were forced to place Justin Morneau on the 15-day DL due to his concussion. Jeff Manship, not Anthony Slama or Kyle Waldrop, gets the call-up. Manship has posted an 8.10 ERA in his last five starts at Rochester. Sigh. In Gardy's defense, he probably had to do this because he needs a mop-up guy if Liriano struggles tonight and Duensing is still sick.
Speaking of the manager, this quote from last night sums it up pretty well, courtesy ESPN's Tom Pelissero:
"As I've said before, you can't replace everybody in the rotation -- these guys have to get it done. It's the same group that took us a long way last year. We won a division with 'em. We're not going to just pitch 'em. Our job is to try to get 'em right as much as we can.
"If it doesn't work out, then we've got to make a decision and make a move. We're trying to get 'em right. I think (pitching coach Rick Anderson)'s as good as they get at that, so we're trying to do the best we possibly can with them. It's not working out right now. If we make a move, we make a move."
So, what move(s) would you make? Where do you even start? Feel free to play Friday morning GM in the comments, being mindful of the 40-man roster and the fact that we won't get Roy Oswalt for Brendan Harris and Loek Van Mil.
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Nothing I've read this morning
Has made me feel any less like bashing my head in a door.
This is the move that I would make
Nothing. I would not make ONE move until this team showed me something. So we started out hot, big deal! Right now this team reminds me of the 28-year-old man with a porno ‘stache trying to hit on high school girls…we’ve gone past our prime this season. Will we get it back, I don’t know but I’m sure as hell not “investing” anything into this team until they show me we’re as good in games as we are on paper.
I was all for mortaging the future to get to the World Series and try to win it. Right now, we’d be mortaging the future just to try to stay competitive in the AL Central race. Not something I’m interested in.
by TC Mooch on Jul 16, 2010 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
I have no problem with rearranging the deck furniture on this sinking ship, but I agree with TC that I wouldn’t go out on a limb. This team feels like there are too many missing pieces to try to come up with a quick fix.
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.
by SteadyDietOfCheese on Jul 16, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
+1
…To make a run for the playoffs we need four of our starters to get much better then they have been. Any move that Bill Smith makes must be a move for this year and in the future. It appears that having four younger starters (who have had success) isn’t what is needed to win it all. Sometime between now and next spring at least one must be replaced with a true Ace. Who that is (both ends of the deal), remains to be seen.
Who's the fourth starter?
Are you talking about Liriano or Pavano? I mean, Liriano cannot be better than the best performing pitcher in baseball, even if his production is mediocre. Pavano has been really good as well, going 7 and 8 innings for a nice string of starts. So, who is the fourth?
by PinkiePinkerton on Jul 16, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
But....
Could we get Dan Haren for Harris, Perkins and $100 in $2 dollar bills?
I would approve of that trade….
by SD Twins Fan on Jul 16, 2010 11:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Can someone tell me
What the Twins do well? It doesn’t seem like they’re doing a whole lot of anything at a high level right now. I mean, Delmon is hitting the ball really well (yet he still bats 6th 7th or 8th). The defense is decent when Morneau is healthy. But what else is there besides those two bright spots? I mean, Jesse Crain is making it harder to hate him. That’s a plus, I guess. But I’d rather hate him and be happy with the other bullpen options than the other way around. I’m rambling. Apparently, that’s what frustration brings out of me.
Ted Lilly
I like the idea on a quality LHP who competes well. This will also allow Duensing to stay in the pen where he has been a huge asset.
As for who to give up? The Cubs will want some good quality, perhaps a Tyler Robertson and another. It will need to be some quality cause he is a valuable guy.
As for the forty man, maybe transfer Condrey to the 60 day DL.
The Manship move as good
we need guys that can pitch more then 1-2 innings because the starters can’t get it done. Had Manship been up last night, who knows maybe he goes 4 innings. Two- send Burnett down, his magic has worn off, let him get some work at AAA. then bring up Slama or Waldrop which ever you need Long or Short relief. Three-let the combos Blackburn/Duensing and Slowey/Manship be the 4th and 5th starting spot. Let Perkins and Swarzac know they have a chance to come up. Get Morales up and send Buteria down. Gardy said these guys won the division last year, he’s right but, Manship,Duensing,Swarzak,Perkins and Morales were all involved too. I think its time to get them involved again with Ramos and Velencia. Last- you’ve got to play who’s hot and move the order to show that.
That picture enrages me too
Bobby Jenks’ bleached wheat stalks beard and AJ’s general douchiness are a bad combination!
Don’t worry though, I think we only lost this game because I was there. I’ve only made it to 2 games this season, but both have been heartbreaking losses (other one was an 8-9 loss to KC on June 10).
"Twins do not need to Lazy Joe maple syrup or Justin will win. They just need to Stache, beard, and embrace."
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Jul 16, 2010 12:07 PM EDT reply actions
Good news: I'm going tonight.
Hopefully will counteract the suckiness that’s been going on lately.
The Pavstache will own you.
what's your record at now?
"Twins do not need to Lazy Joe maple syrup or Justin will win. They just need to Stache, beard, and embrace."
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Jul 16, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Me tooo!!!
Except I was also there last night. I’m wearing the Radke jersey this time.
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
Don't blame yourself..... Cuz' it was ME! :)
I was there on June 10 (almost got Betemit’s 2nd homer). I was also therefore the July 1 bullpen loss to the Rays. And I was there last night, too (and almost snagged Beckham’s homer). Maybe the opposition sees me in the stands and is gunning for me. I guess I should sit in foul territory next time :)
Oh and Morneau to the DL
don’t forget that
"Baseball is the only major sport that appears backward in a mirror" ~George Carlin
by thewild_viking_twins on Jul 16, 2010 12:38 PM EDT reply actions
Baker/Blackburn Guaranteed $24.75 Million the next 3 Years
Guaranteed Contracts the next 3 years with Club Options
Baker 2010…3 Million 2011….5 M 2012….6.5 M 2013…Club Option…9.5M
Blackburn 2010…750K 2011….3Million 2012….4.75M 2013…..5.5M 2014….CO 8M
This complicates things…..
encouraged by last night
start duensing next week in place of slowey, bring up slama and send down burnett to groom him for spot starting later in the year in place of blackburn. besides a few gigantic holes in the rotation, last night’s game showed how incredibly mediocre the division is. consider:
- morneau-less twins lineup facing the sox’s lefthanded ace
- slowey was confused and terrible
- duensing was sick
- the sox executed 3 hit and runs, 3 sac flies
- closer brought in for last 4 outs
—and still white sox barely manage to squeak a 1-run victory. sox SUCK.
How about accountability?
As in, if you keep sucking, there are going to be consequences? I can understand what Gardenhire is saying about the rotation, to an extent, there’s no one knocking on the door, but sometimes, you need to make a move to shake things up and send a message that extended poor performance and meaningless platitudes (“I’m working real hard, it just didn’t work out, made a few bad pitches”) aren’t going to cut it.
In short, if Blackburn/Slowey/Baker keep pitching like they don’t care, enjoy Rochester, there are plenty of guys down there that would love to switch places with you.
me too
I would love to take Blackburn’s spot in the rotation, doesn’t mean I will get the job done.
Part of this is that BS gave these guys nice contracts to pitch, so the dont want to give up on em.
by guinness junky on Jul 16, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Tall order
Do you know if we called up Loek Van Mil we would have the 2 tallest players in the history of the game on the same team at the same time? We might not make playoffs but we’ll make Guiness.
Send Burnett down. I like him but he’s been getting hammered lately. Maybe release Mahay to clear a roster spot. Call up any two starters from anywhere-they can’t do any worse, can they? Introduce Slowey and Blackburn to the pen. Maybe figuring out they can be replaced will light a fire under them. Hard to say what the right moves would be but time for running the same people out time after time and getting the same result is long past.
whats mahay-hating for?
the guy got some pretty terrible hacks from juan pierre and the lefties in the sox lineup. he also has the highest k/9 of anyone in the pen (which is sad).
Francisco Cordero
Saw where he’d been released or DFA’d by Seattle. Do you make a run at him on the cheap and hope he can recover his old stuff or not?
AJ Pierzynski really pisses me off.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
Minnesota Twins 2010: GAME 163 OR BUST!!!
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jul 16, 2010 2:31 PM EDT reply actions
how AJ never did anything to us
one more year Brett Favre!
As much as I hate to admit it...
I still love AJ. I just boo him because he likes being booed.
He’s really nice to fans too. My mom has all kinds of crap he signed—a ball, a picture of AJ’s head on a stick, a Polaroid of AJ and my sister, etc.
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
I'm convinced he likes it, too
He likes us to “hate” him and we like to “hate” him. Everyone wins. Hating AJ is good for baseball :)
When you put it like that
It makes me feel like an asshole for my previous post.
AJ sucks!!!
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
Not wise to go outside of the organization right now...
but changes do need to be made.
Getting Duensing into the rotation is about as close to a must as this team has. As was pointed out in another thread, he can probably just stretch out at the major league level since the odds are at least one of our starters will have to be bailed out in the 3rd every time thru the rotation. If he must be sent to Rochester, so be it. Just get him back here ASAP!
Having Manship replace a starter right now is a good move. It does not have to be a permanent decision, but it needs to be tried. Any one of our AAA pitchers replacing Blackburn would be a horizontal move at worst right now…even Mike Maroth. Blackburn can be a solid contributing pitcher (two full seasons of pitching here have proven that), but he’s a mess right now and should probably head to Rochester to get straightened out. I would rather have him in Spetember and October than Manship, but he needs to straighten things out now for that to hold true.
Morales for Butera. ’Nuff said there.
Everyone wants a shakeup in the bullpen, but the only reasonable move would be to swap out Burnett. Crain and Mahay have been nearly lights out for the past six weeks. Rauch has been solid all year long. Gurrier hit a snag, but minus 2nd half 2008, he has arguably been the best non-saves reliever in baseball the past 4+ seasons. Mijares is dominating lefties once again. The long spot can be filled by starter #6.
Rearrange the damn lineup:
-Delman bats 5th. He may have sucked for two seasons in a Twins uniform, but none of that should matter in 2010. He is currently the most productive hitter on the active roster. With Porno out, I would like to see him bat cleanup against southpaws.
-Drop Cuddy down in the lineup against righties. The same sentiment applied to Delmon applies here: Cuddy had a stellar 2009, but that should not matter right now.
-Finally, let Valencia lose the 3B job. He again came up with a nice ab last night. I don’t know what more he can do to show he deserves to be there every day. He takes great ab’s and while he has not hit the ball sharply with consistency, he is getting on base. At least start him against ALL lefties.
-These lineup changes may not apply in September, but as of July 15, 2010, our lineup needs to reflect the actual performance of the players at this time, not what Gardy believes the performance of those players should be.
by PinkiePinkerton on Jul 16, 2010 3:01 PM EDT reply actions
I think you have to go outside.
The pitching parts of the organization have been sub-par for years now. That’s fine, it happens, that the Twins haven’t fallen off a click has led to a)not the best draft position and b)credit to the pitching staff but I have to wonder: Rick Anderson’s approach leads to homeruns, it always has. Has anyone spoken to him about changing that approach to reduce that?
Also it’s pretty important to note that out best reliable pitcher, Pavano, is from outside the organization (Is Liriano reliable? I honestly don’t know, I think he is and then….).
So basically the only way to improve is to go outside.
Matt Garza?
Haha, yeah. When it became him or Gardy it was obvious to me who should go but the organization chose poorly.
Water under the bridge.
the line up is fine
Runs are coming.
Its the pitching that worries me
by clutterheart on Jul 16, 2010 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Punto's Mustache is Awesome
Haters just want to hate.
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
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