Free Danny Valencia
This is just a quick rant. I just don't get why Danny Valencia is not starting. He's done everything the team could want in his limited playing time this year. He's reached base in all but two games he's started. He's made one error (when he threw a sinker to Michael Cuddyer at first and Cuddyer couldn't handle it). He's hit in the clutch. He's hit both right-handed and left handed pitchers. (By the numbers, he's actually hitting better against right-handed pitching.)
Meanwhile, Nick Punto continues his mediocre play. He sometimes makes spectacular defensive plays. But his defensive skills don't make up for his offensive deficiencies relative to Valencia. And he doesn't do the "little things" well. For example, the other night, he got doubled off first on a lazy fly ball to center. He later missed a sign on a hit-and-run play that should have resulted in J.J. Hardy getting thrown out. He also had a chance for an infield hit but insisted on diving into first. On the replay, diving slowed him down by about the difference in the play.That's three stupid plays in one game. Did he get benched for it? No. He was starting the next day.
Season OPS: Valencia .767 Punto: .617
Last 28 days OPS: Valencia .891 Punto: .421
The clincher, for me, is that Gardy brings Valencia in as a pinch hitter late in the game when the Twins are behind. This is the opposite of what you should do. If one player is obviously the better hitter and the other is the better fielder, you start the better hitter and bring in the defensive player late in the game with the lead. Gardy's insistence on using Punto over Valencia as the starter has to stop.
Not only is it hurting the Twins this year, it will hurt the Twins next year. Presumably, Valencia will be the starter next year when the Twins can't afford to pick up Punto's option. The more playing time Valencia gets now will only help his development. Sitting him five games a week is not doing anything good for his development.
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While it’s a small sample size Valencia has a better UZR/150 than Punto at 52.3 vs 21.1.
So really there’s no defense for starting Punto. Punto should be the utility guy and nothing more, as we’ve all said over and over and over again.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
way too small a sample size for UZR
Usually even an entire season is too small a sample size for UZR. There’s no way Valencia’s “true” defensive level is that high, but he’s looked just fine on defense so far. Regardless, Valencia’s been hitting so much better than Punto that it shouldn’t matter what Valencia’s “real” defensive value is at this point.
Souhan in Chinese! : "一會兒,德爾蒙楊想與他無關的隊友。不想讓他們打他。難道不希望他們偷了他的頭盔。不希望他們成為他的Facebook的朋友。"
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Jul 25, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I did mention it was a small sample size. The point being he’s done nothing to look bad defensively yet by the numbers or IMO the naked eye.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
definitely true
Souhan in Chinese! : "一會兒,德爾蒙楊想與他無關的隊友。不想讓他們打他。難道不希望他們偷了他的頭盔。不希望他們成為他的Facebook的朋友。"
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Jul 25, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
As much as we want to jump on Gardy, there is so much that happens behind the scenes as well. Maybe Valencia has an injury, he’s been a cancer, maybe vavra needs to work on some things with him, maybe they like the match-ups better with Punto in, maybe they want valencia to watch some games in the big leagues just help him adjust. etc.
Being a coach myself, there is so much that goes into sports besides the numbers. It’s frustrating when people want to jump all over Gardy, especially since he’s brought us 5 division titles in less then a decade. He knows what he’s doing. I trust him.
by hitormiss1414 on Jul 25, 2010 12:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A cancer?
Seriously? He’s not that good of a player to be up here if he’s a cancer. By the way, if he is a cancer he seems to be a good cancer as the Twins have been playing better lately as his playing time has increased.
Yeah, I laughed at that one
Every time they show him in the dugout, he’s soaking it in from an elder. The last time they showed him, we was sitting next to Thome and just intently listening to him with a big smile on his face.
Yeah, he's a cancer all right. Just like Bartlett was a cancer.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
the guy was just throwing out potential questions of the types of things that we as fans dont have access to
he was not saying that Valencia IS a cancer…
My life's goal: to force fischean itno using her moderator powers
by montanatwinsfan on Jul 26, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Becaue we can't know, we probably shouldn't speculate
I wasted a good part of my brain for the better art of a year trying to speculate on why Bartlett was in Gardy’s doghouse. I can say from experience it’s not productive to publicly speculate about it.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
read his post again.
That is exactly the sentiment he is trying to express.
Nonetheless, that sentiment,
Becaue we can’t know, we probably shouldn’t speculatefor fans like us, is dead wrong.
All we can do, often, is speculate. I am not saying that speculation is productive, but speculation is really the basis for most of our analysis here on this site and adds to the fun.
My life's goal: to force fischean itno using her moderator powers
by montanatwinsfan on Jul 26, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
As long as it's fun, fine
At some point, it stops being fun. One month of horrible play by Juan Castro was enough to make me froth at the mouth. If I had to do it over, I would have just made a big joke about it, like some did. E.g., Bartlett dropped Gardy’s daughter off on the doorstep in a grocery cart.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Kubes is Bluto
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
Minnesota Twins 2010: GAME 163 OR BUST!!!
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jul 26, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
can't speculate = can't second guess either
All we do here is speculate. If you don’t think we can speculate, then I don’t think you can question Gardy’s judgment.
Clearly we all, on this site, think you can speculate.
Also, Mauer might be on ‘roids. I told the guy on wikileaks – we’ll see how reliable he needs his sources to be. . . .
I strongly...
Disagree. The Matchup argument is so overrated, not to mention, that argument can be thrown out the window when Gardy decided to give Texiera a free pass, and then let Guerrier pitch to Arod with the bases loaded. He wasn’t playing the matchups that night, if he is willing to overlook them to pitch to one of the best (tainted) hitters in baseball, especially with a guy that has not pitched well against said player, I think you can overlook the fact that Valencia is young, and Punto has an air of scraptitude. I agree with Gardy on somethings, but his man-crush on Punto must stop, or at least be left in the clubhouse. He sees himself in Punto and it’s sad. A mediocre middle infielder with no bat and decent Defense. That was Ron Gardenhire in a nutshell.
by SouthSotaPop on Jul 30, 2010 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Come on CMath...
…you know why he isn’t starting. He made an error and that will cost him at least a couple weeks in Gardy’s doghouse. During that time he will get a couple starts against lefties. His only chance is if Casilla screws up and Gardy moves his MVP (Punto) to second opening a spot for Valencia. This may be the winter that Bill Smith takes the proverbial bull by the horn, buys out Punto’s $5mm contract forcing Gardy to play Valencia as his regular third baseman next year.
Hasn’t Valencia done a wonderful job? In Gardy’s defense, playing 3-4 games a week might be an excellent way to break a young kid in. Now if it would only get up to 3-4 games a week, eh?
Valencia's "One Error"
Let me start by saying I’m liking what I see with Valencia. However…
I was at that game (God knows what sin I committed that I had to suffer through that game, at least the free food and drink in the suite made up for it…somewhat…but I digress).
Valencia had one of the worst defensive innings in recent memory. The first hit of the inning was under his glove. He should have had it. Then he misplayed a bunt – it was again ruled a hit. Finally the error — the official scorer just couldn’t ignore it any more. Body language went downhill for him the rest of the night. (or maybe that was the beverages that were helping me through the rest of that game, I don’t know…)
For a rookie, yes, that earns you a couple of days — and let’s be honest, it was only two games — on the bench.
I watched that inning on TV
And I call bullsh1t. The ball that went under his glove was on a diving attempt to his left. The bunt single was a perfect bunt by a fast left-handed hitter. Very few players, if any, would have made those plays. I highly doubt Punto would have. Even if you make the play on the bunt, he still beats it out.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
+1
I saw that inning too. Bunt = Punto wouldn’t have even had him. And a diving play where a ball goes under a glove is hardly a bad play.
Valencia has been very solid thus far in the short time he has played. If this was one if the worst defensive innings in recent memory then you only watched one game recently or don’t have a good memory.
Yeah
On the bunt, his only play was to bare hand it and throw in one motion while going full speed toward home. On the replay, it showed the runner two steps from first base when he got to the ball. I’ve seen Valencia make that play, but not with a really fast runner.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Disagreement.
Fine – you’ve got your point of view and based one everything I see on this post, nothing anyone says is going to change your mind. You have that right.
Well
I don’t write fanposts unless the evidence is overwhelming. I thought about writing this for a while. But you could at least make a good argument about Punto’s defense for a while. Then Punto went into a slump and Valencia got hot, which stacked the deck towards Valencia over the last month. It came to a head recently when Punto had a horrible game and still started the next day. That’s when I knew I needed to write this.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
"Needed"
Think not of what the Twins can do for you, but rather, of what you can do for the Twins.
jk, but I laughed at “that’s when I knew I needed to write this”.
It is funny
But it’s like the inventor who has a thought in the shower and just can’t get it out of his head until he starts tinkering in the lab, and ultimately produces a prototype.
I needed to write this in that same sense. If I didn’t, it would dominate the top of my mind and crowd out all the other things I need to think about, like my job, or my book or my other blog.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
yeah
I completely understand. It’s the same reason I feel the need to share my thoughts with the world via google buzz, twinkietown, comment threads on newspapers, etc. I like putting my opinion out there, even if no one will care.
On that note, here is one of the funniest posters I’ve ever seen: http://www.despair.com/blogging.html
if you’ve never seen them, I suggest looking at all of their demotivators.
other blog
So are you “writingfordigital”? I read a few entries and thought they were really well done. Cool study on the value of editors, for example. I’m going to read more.
Check on Len ...
Believe it’s …
Repko, casilla, young, thome, cuddy’ kubel, valencia, punto, butera
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
I live out in dc /Baltimore area
It’s ridiculously hot, but resting span, hardy and mauer when morneeau and Hudson are out is silly.
Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher
it got silly
and by silly i mean pretty darn good
by twinscrazy_german on Jul 26, 2010 6:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Span shouldn't have to be sick to get a day off
(and Valencia should be hitting 1 or 2 in this lineup)
it fights, but tolbert the true rubbish, is the son--japanese proverb
Chase Utley is a Nick Punto-type player, but with power--Bert Blyleven
by ajmargarine on Jul 25, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, stupid comment
“We don’t care if it’s 97℉ and you’re sick! Get out there and play!”
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
Minnesota Twins 2010: GAME 163 OR BUST!!!
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jul 25, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Only question
The only problem I have with the lineup is Punto for Hardy. JJ has been swinging well, and this takes a fourth regular out of the lineup. If Span is sick, he’s sick. After catching in 100+ weather, it is foolish to ask Mauer to go back and catch today and Thome is right now the superior DH candidate.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Jul 25, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
There may be valid reasons...
…LaValle wrote that Span was overloading on gatorade Saturday night. Then reported that he was sick this morning. Imagine playing in 99 degrees could get to you which may also be the reason Mauer needs a break…catching an afternoon game after a humid hot one the night before may not be a good idea. At least resting Hardy gets Valencia back into the game. Maybe another 3 hits will get him back on Monday.
i live in dc
and let me tell you it has been MISERABLE here the last few days. i get swamp ass just thinking about going outside. resting these guys in the heat isn’t a terrible idea.
Valencia.......
Like doing the option of playing Casilla at second with Hudson out (a no brianer), the Twins need to get Valencia as much playing time as possible at third. Play him until he dies as a batter, which may not happen. Punto is the guy who comes in for one at-bat a game, either at second, short or third.
But right now, as long as the duo of Casilla and Valencia are hitting, they should be playing at least 4 out of 5 games. They are bringing an equal, if not greater, amount of push to the table.
Just like now is the time you get Thome at bats. Repko is not the future. You don’t need him out there except in dire emergencies or to repalce Thome in a later inning. With Morneau out, you have the chance to play all three outfielders plus Kubel plus Thomas. Heaven forbid when Morneau comes abck and you do have to sit Punto to play Cuddy at third because you do want Thome & Kubel in the line-up rather than Punto. Maybe, at that point, you do make a decision to send Valencia down to the minors…but minor league play only has another 5-6 weeks left on the horizon.
I bet that the Twins would promote Toby gardenhire to repalce Hudson if they could figure out a way to put him on the 40-man (can they DL Hughes now for 60-days since he is likely out for the season? Or is there a limit on the number of bodies that can fill that DL-hole).
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
+1
i agree in total and would prefer to see Casilla should cover 2nd when Hudson is gone and it may happen. though I somewhat expect to see Gardy give in on Valencia and start him at third and have Punto cover 2nd while Hudson is out defiantly nicer to have the grit glove there then 3rd. They called up Morales with the roster spot!?!?! 3 catchers Mauer is a little more banged up then was suggested hopefully he hits and Butters goes down instead of him when Morneau or Hudson come off the dl.
by holymackerel on Jul 26, 2010 4:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Danny
Certainly the batting average is unsustainable, but he’s played a good third base, hit the ball hard alot and gotten a couple of clutch hits. His minor league history includes streaks and bad slumps and so far he has avoided the latter. Obviously, it would be nice if he got more extra base hits and drove in a few more runs, but he’s been fine in the bottom third of the order. He’s not young (26 in less than two months) and he’s not versatile, so in today’s MLB with 12 man pitching staffs, he has to be a regular to have a sure future on this team. I am certainly willing to live with that starting yesterday.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Jul 25, 2010 1:14 PM EDT reply actions
I agree.
I love Valencia and have been arguing with my brother about how his position on the team. I personally think Danny has played extremely well, and has earned that starting spot at 3rd.
So does Gladden
I think they’re coming around. I don’t see him losing a game or 2 a week to Punto as a tragedy though.
I really don't think Punto has been hitting "mediocre"
I think the 2 are evenly matched at this point…but I give the edge to Punto’s defense…
It’s too bad that we’re stacked in the infield when we need some other guys pitching.
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
A .421 OPS over his last 28 gasmes is below medicore. A .617 OPS for the season is below replacement level at third base
I was being generous when I said he was hitting mediocre.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
This is the very reason...
…I see them picking up the Punto option. We’ve been down this same road dozens of time, and Gardy (and apparently the management) loves having Punto in the line-up. The rationale is that he is better than replacement in fielding and at least break even in hitting; both of these assessments, however, defy reality <- L →
"I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. See, my mule don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it . . ."
by Skippy tastes better than Jiff on Jul 26, 2010 3:11 AM EDT reply actions
They decline the option
I could see them re-upping for 2 years $4M though.
Valencia
Is probably going to get his shot with Hudson heading to the dl. I expect to see him at 3rd and Mr. Grit at 2nd, Gardy is gonna take the opportunity to put Puntos glove at 2nd its almost a guarantee. Casilla has looked decent so far but I am far from ready to drink the cool aid he is a utility player until he proves it for awhile. It will be interesting to see who goes down when Morneau or Hudson comes off the dl, obviously Morales or Butera lets hope Morales hits and forces their hand since it seems like both are going to see playing time Mauer appears to be more banged up than suggested though he has been hitting the ball better mayber a few games at dh isnt so bad to get him healed.
Morneau's Return
There is a big decision on Valencia when Morneau comes back, but it’s not just his roster spot – his return pushes Cuddyer back to the outfield, and if Thome, Kubel, and Cuddyer are all hitting well, that raises the specter of Cuddyer returning to third base. I haven’t been as opposed to that situation as some here have (he’s obviously a better bat than Valencia, who might sit against righties anyway; I’m just not sure whether Cuddyer is good enough against righthanders that he should start there over Punto), but I would like to see a bit more of Valencia before they make that switch again.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Cuddy to 2nd?
Why not shift Cuddy to 2nd instead of third, leaving him, Kubes, Thome, and Valencia all in the line up. I seem to remember something Dan Gladden said about the only position Cuddy’s never played in the majors is SS. 2nd isn’t terribly different from 3rd, is it?
Haha
Do you not remember Cuddy at 2B when the Twins were in Seattle??? There is a reason why we lost 2 of 3 games to the Mariners….
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
There was a reason the Twins lost two of three
But it wasn’t Cuddyer at second. They won the one game he started there.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Jul 27, 2010 5:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Punto should be our top infield backup for 2, ss, and 3…THAT is his position! Valencia needs to get that job…he’s earned it and we are better with him in the lineup!
excellent night
another excellent night should keep him in the lineup for some time..
Regards,
Brian
He should be free now, right? RIGHT!?
I don’t even care if he goes into some huge slump. Okay, I care a little, but for a guy that’s supposed to be the future, it’s about time that the future is now. See if he can hack it or not.
If he does then we’ve got a third baseman for years and if he can’t, get a good long term solution. Just stop all the messing around. I’d love it if he could stick and be good. So far, so good.
Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD
What a great night for Danny!
If the past three games haven’t been enough to make Danny the starting 3B, I don’t know what will. Let’s hope Gardy appreciates what he has done so far in his time up here and rewards him with the starting 3B job.
Is Danny Valencia a robot?
21 for 42 in July!
by Pedro Munoz is fast on Jul 27, 2010 9:43 PM EDT reply actions
19th round are you shitting me.
The kids making the most of his opportunity. Go Danny go . Sign me up for a #19 jersey.
3B problem, what problem?
Jeff Manship was the 14th round choice as well
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
David Bromberg was like a 26th round pick or something
pretty DARN good #3-#4 starter in AAA right now….
He’ll be a good #4 or #5 on the Twins from the get go next year with a cieling of a #3 probably….
If Carlos Gomez could net J.J. Hardy then Wilson Ramos should have netted at Least Matt Capps...
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 4, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure Danny V will be the starting condender for 3b next year
I think Nick Punto will be the new Al Newman, playing on Sunday and Pinch Running for whomever he needs to.
If he can manage 260-280, he’ll be plenty to shore up the bottom of the lineup
Delmon Young is my new Bicycle.
Everybody has a take on Punto
Here’s mine: He has no power and doesn’t hit much, although his OBP is on the verge of being respectable. As far as doing the “little things”, he has failed too many times bunting and baserunning. So, in summary, there is no question that Punto has negative value offensively. I think that offensively, Tolbert is even superior to good ol’ #8. Defensively, Punto is a good defender, especially at second and third, his less than potent arm hurts him at short. Besides his overall good defense, the best thing about Punto is his versatility. So, making Punto a regular at any position takes away one of his biggest strengths.
Gardy appreciates Punto’s ability on defense, no question about that. The problem has been that there haven’t been obviously superior players available to supplant Punto, if you consider defense as highly as Gardenhire does. Most of the time I haven’t had a problem with Punto playing because the people (like Brendan Harris and last year’s Casilla) not playing are no better. Valencia has asserted his superiority for now and should play unless he falls pretty far.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Jul 31, 2010 9:48 AM EDT reply actions
I agree, almost completely
There have been times when Punto has started in place of a guy who seems superior. It was arguably the case with Valencia prior to this post. Punto is a good utility player. Gardy likes him starting. No matter how many bone-headed plays Punto makes, Gardy’s attitude about him being a starter never waivers. Most All other guys on the team get benched for stuff Punto does repeatedly. That is the crux of the issue, I think. He’s supposed to lead by example, but he just doesn’t. He openly defies the coaches and Gardy seems not to care.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

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