POLL: Who is the MVP of the 2010 Minnesota Twins?

I voted Thome

Tuesday, August 17, 2010.

by Moojenowski on Sep 17, 2010 2:59 PM EDT reply actions

If you put Cuddyer and Kubel on the ballot...

I think you at least need to put Liriano on there.

Although I would argue that Valencia, Hudson, and Duensing need to be on the ballot as well.

by 2wins87 on Sep 17, 2010 3:22 PM EDT reply actions

Morneau?

by Hillstop on Sep 17, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Agree that Duensing, Morneau, and Liriano need to be on the ballot at least.

Hudson and Valencia have been good, but I don’t think they need to be on the ballot. I don’t really think Cuddyer and Kubel belong there either, but to each their own.

Mauer, Morneau, Delmon, Duensing, and Liriano are basically all neck-and-neck in WPA. Mauer, Morneau, Liriano, and Pavano are all up there in the WAR-type stats. It’s a bit boring, but I’d go with Mauer. I’m going to give him bonus points for catching the top pitching staff in the American League.

by Luke in MN on Sep 17, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah Morneau too

I’m embarrassed I didn’t even think of him. He was carrying the team for much of the first half when a lot of these other guys were under-performing.

by 2wins87 on Sep 17, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Exactly

The 2nd best player on the team (Liriano) doesn’t make the ballot?

by DJL44 on Sep 17, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions

I probably wouldn't have voted for them,

but I think Frankie and Duensing deserve their names up there rather than being part of “other.” Which is where Kubel and Cuddy should be, unless someone’s going to vote based on the homer in Yankee Stadium (which I could see) or magic tricks.

by MCA1 on Sep 17, 2010 3:24 PM EDT reply actions

I figured Cuddy's presence was a dig at the strib.

Kubel, not sure what his name does up there. Maybe someone just looking at HR/RBI?

… but its just an internet poll and Mauer should win anyways. :-)

by DavidRF on Sep 17, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, I give Cuddy brownie points for playing out of position all year,

but I don’t really think he’s a team-MVP candidate.

by Luke in MN on Sep 17, 2010 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions

While I thoroughly respect this opinion

It is based strictly on statistics. The Twins brass have stated that Cuddyer is their MVP and have been quoted as saying so. We don’t know what happens in the locker room or in the dugout.

Stating definitively that Cuddyer does not deserve to be on the ballot is nonsense.

My life's goal: to force fischean itno using her moderator powers or, at the very least, using her witch magic to impoove my spelling.

by montanatwinsfan on Sep 17, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions

His MORK+ is incredible this year.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Dear AJ, That facial hair is not making you less douchey. Love, Batgirl" -TwinsBatgirl

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Sep 17, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd rather have a gander at his stripped down, park adjusted Mindy.

My life's goal: to force fischean itno using her moderator powers or, at the very least, using her witch magic to impoove my spelling.

by montanatwinsfan on Sep 17, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess I'd probably put him on the ballot if I was doing up an internet poll

due to the Gardy statement, but I don’t think even Gardy really believes he’s the MVP. Cuddy’s an important clubhouse guy and a leader and a gamer and all that stuff—which I actually do think is important—but I think he’s more like the most-liked guy in the organization, which makes them feel like he’s underappreciated. (And maybe he is.) But if you forced them to replay the season either without Mauer or without Cuddyer, and let Gardy and the Twins brass choose, I think it’s pretty clear who they’d pick.

by Luke in MN on Sep 17, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions

agreed on many points,

but AGAIN, best player does not necessarily equal MVP, nor does “most statistically significant offensive performer”

Maybe its hard to understand for some of you who didn’t play competitive sports (please don’t assume that is a critique, because it isn’t), but for those of you who did, you will certainly understand that the MVP does not always go to the stat guy.

My first year of college hockey we had a freshman who was recruited hard and highly touted, he had all the talent in the world, and was our leading goal scorer. We would have been a MUCH worse team without him. But the third next best “statistical” player on our team was our MVP that year. He played every game, he played through every pain, he lead through hard work and by example, he never missed a practice, and he was pretty darned good too.

To borrow a political cliche; he was a leader we could believe in, and he was our MVP. Stats couldn’t capture that.

Again, my vote is tight between Mauer, Liriano, and Pavano … so I don’t mean to defend Cuddyer, but please don’t confuse “the one guy I would pick if I were starting a new team” with “MVP for this year”. Sometimes they are the same, sometimes they aren’t.

My life's goal: to force fischean itno using her moderator powers or, at the very least, using her witch magic to impoove my spelling.

by montanatwinsfan on Sep 17, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions

I played competitive sports for most of my life

Usually the guy who was voted MVP was the guy who scored the most runs or drove in the most runs or had that certain quality of clutch. Cuddyer has done none of those things in 2010. He’s done some of those things in previous years. But not this year. He has the same number of RBI as Mauer, but he has had .400+ OBP hitters on base almost every time he comes up, whereas Mauer has had two guys with OBPs under .350 all year hitting ahead of him.

Cuddyer has been a failure at the plate for most of the year. Couple that with horrible defense and his value is below replacement level. If you consider him MVP, you might be the kind of guy who prefers Juan Castro to Jason Bartlett or Nick Punto to Danny Valencia.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 17, 2010 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Going by BP WAR

Mauer
Liriano
Morneau
Pavano
Duensing
Thome
Valencia
Hudson
Baker
Slowey

Cuddyer, Young and Kubel all grade out < 1 WAR.

by DJL44 on Sep 17, 2010 3:41 PM EDT reply actions

+span

by twinscrazy_german on Sep 17, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Tolbert hit TWO triples in a game.

No respect.

(I’m kidding)

I always loved that one.

by FoulJack on Sep 17, 2010 4:12 PM EDT reply actions

Span hit THREE triples in a game

Anyone care to top that?

by DavidRF on Sep 17, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Cuddyer is 15th on my list

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 17, 2010 4:18 PM EDT reply actions

seriously.

When you decide someone is on your shit list you lose all sense of objectivity.

My life's goal: to force fischean itno using her moderator powers or, at the very least, using her witch magic to impoove my spelling.

by montanatwinsfan on Sep 17, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not objective

I admit it. Thing is, he’s a negative WAR player and there are 14 positive WAR players on the team.

Too bad WAR doesn’t take into account dimples or card tricks or tail busting or high fiving. ’Cause if it did, he might be up near the top.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 17, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think Cuddyer deserves it either.

But Ron Gardengnome does. That ALONE suggests that he at least deserves to be part of the discussion.

My life's goal: to force fischean itno using her moderator powers or, at the very least, using her witch magic to impoove my spelling.

by montanatwinsfan on Sep 17, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Not really

It just means that Gardy conflates Most Valuable PLAYER with Most Valuable PERSON. The MVP is proven on the field, not in the shower of the clubhouse. Besides, if all those intangibles matter as much as Gardy wants to think, I’d give it to Jimmers. He has a positive WAR and a huge MORK.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 17, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions

I should have saved myself some time and just +1'd this.

by Luke in MN on Sep 17, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions

What does MORK mean?

Seem to be an internet meme of some sort. I can usually find those but the google is failing me today.

Thanks.

by DavidRF on Sep 17, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions

internet meme, recently created on this site (see today's pavano article)

by Luke in MN on Sep 17, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Ah... duh...

I’ll have to apologize to the google. I was yelling at it earlier.

That’s what I get for skipping that article, I guess.

by DavidRF on Sep 17, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Google = :(

My life's goal: to force fischean itno using her moderator powers or, at the very least, using her witch magic to impoove my spelling.

by montanatwinsfan on Sep 17, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions

It's a joke

from the Gardy/Pavstache conversation

"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series

by WindyCityTwinsFan on Sep 17, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions

It's derived from from ORK and NANU

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Dear AJ, That facial hair is not making you less douchey. Love, Batgirl" -TwinsBatgirl

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Sep 17, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions

now you are being silly and basing the vote on your personal preferences

Every single year the league MVPs are debated, as are the criteria. There are no set criteria. It’s not called MVWAR, and its not called MVOPS, and its not called MVOP (most valuable offensive performer [read, Jim Thome]) for a reason. The Twins MVP is the most valuable player on their team. Offense, defense, clubhouse, magic tricks, on and off-field leadership, best butt punches, whatever.

Or more specifically, whatever they want. Hell, a few years ago Bartlett had a good year for the rays and they voted him their MVP. He wan’t their best player by statistical analysis, but he did have a very good year and he obviously brought something to the team that the team respected more than statheads did.

Stats don’t tell the whole story, go figure.

My life's goal: to force fischean itno using her moderator powers or, at the very least, using her witch magic to impoove my spelling.

by montanatwinsfan on Sep 17, 2010 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Mauer

Even when he was “slumping” he was consistent. Liriano would be #2 for me…consistency.

by bbeeck on Sep 17, 2010 4:20 PM EDT reply actions

This is an incredibly difficult question. There are 5 possibly correct answers IMO

1. Joe Mauer as always.
2. Justin Morneau for his absurd half season. Really really absurd.
3. Jim Thome for picking up where Morneau left off.
4. Liriano for being the dominant starter we all hoped he could be.
5. Pavano for being a stabilizing force in the rotation, pitching a boatload of pretty good innings, and generally being an unexpected top 10-ish pitcher in the AL.

I don’t know who I would give it to.

by ckb on Sep 17, 2010 4:21 PM EDT reply actions

Morneau

Didn’t we already have this FanPost?

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Dear AJ, That facial hair is not making you less douchey. Love, Batgirl" -TwinsBatgirl

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Sep 17, 2010 4:30 PM EDT reply actions

Liriano needs to be on the ballot.

period.

My life's goal: to force fischean itno using her moderator powers or, at the very least, using her witch magic to impoove my spelling.

by montanatwinsfan on Sep 17, 2010 4:30 PM EDT reply actions

B Dunce

I give it to Duensing he stabalized the staff that helped lead to this ridiculous 2nd half and was by far the most solid reliever in the first half

by holymackerel on Sep 17, 2010 4:42 PM EDT reply actions

I can't believe nobody has brought up...

…Jesse Crain. Seriously, when none of your big bats are having record years, why not throw a bone to the one stable option we’ve had in the bullpen?

I would also try to seriously put some persuasion behind Valencia – absolutely locking down the one position that was a question mark before the season. He has been a huge asset at the hot corner, and I, for one, cannot be happier that the last open position in the infield has been filled by an actual third basemen. But admittedly, I may place more value on Valencia’s success due to the fact that he has relegated a healthy Nick Punto to his true position – the bench.

"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series

by WindyCityTwinsFan on Sep 17, 2010 5:07 PM EDT reply actions

Crain for MVReliever... easy

Hard for those guys to compete with position players and starters due to the low innings count. Maybe we can give him the Rolaids Award.

by DavidRF on Sep 17, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions

I understand what you're saying

but he’s been so good (maybe just 2nd half here, but still…) that he’s the one guy you feel comfortable with when it’s his turn – he’s the guy you want to come in when the situation calls for it. And that’s what your MVP is. No different than your big bat getting the clutch hit every time he’s called to do it, but I don’t feel like one guy has done that offensively for this team – its more of a team effort from these guys, and that’s great, but I can’t actually pick one that’s been “the man” for as much of the season as Crain has been in his situation.

"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series

by WindyCityTwinsFan on Sep 17, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Joe Mauer has absolutely locked down the catcher position

Imagine a whole year of Morales and Butera. I think you’re trying to vote for most surprising player or most improved player, not most valuable player. Mauer has had another season where he deserves AL MVP votes. He’s the best catcher in baseball, again. I know it is easy to underrate what he means to the team but he’s the default MVP unless someone else proves otherwise.

Don’t get me started on catcher defensive WAR. Outfielders have 3 times the range in defensive WAR that you’ll see from catchers. That alone tells me something is wrong with catcher defensive WAR.

by DJL44 on Sep 17, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions

I voted 'other'

Mainly because I was aggravated at the number of names left off the ballot that should be there.

Liriano
Morneau
Duensing
Valencia (for stabilizing a position that has been in flux for years on this team)
Hudson (for the same reason as Valencia)
Crain
Butera (okay, I’m just kidding on that one)

by Twins4Life on Sep 17, 2010 5:27 PM EDT reply actions

Some names left off

But it doesn’t bother me in the slightest, because I think Mauer has clearly been the MVP. We aren’t voting for “Player Having the Best Year of Their Career” here. Yes, he was better last year. Doesn’t mean he’s still not the most valuable player on the team this year. Give me a full year of Morneau or more consistency from Liriano and maybe we’ve got something, but Mauer, to me, is hands down the MVP this year. Consistency at a key position, good teammate, great with the pitchers (with the obvious exception of the stache) and a real offensive threat that makes the lineup MUCH better. All hail Joe!

by dctwin on Sep 17, 2010 6:08 PM EDT reply actions

More consistency from Liriano?

I would love some explanation on that. The dude has had maybe 5 or 6 bad starts this year. He has been ridiculously consistent and ridiculously good.

by Twins4Life on Sep 17, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh, he's been great. Don't get me wrong.

He’s for sure the “Cy” of the Twins, IMO. And, honestly, a huge part of my vote for Mauer is that, while I understand that pitchers can only do what they are asked to do, I think an excellent position player is more valuable than an excellent starter, just on account of the extra opportunities to help the team.

But, to your point, Liriano has a tendency to give up earned runs in bunches and, when he does, he gets his pitch count awfully high and doesn’t last as many innings, which can be a killer on our BP (esp during those ugly weeks in June and July when our other pitchers were abusing our BP, also).

He’s been mostly brilliant and had some just filthy starts, but then he’ll have the off start where he only lasts 5 innings and gives up 5 ERs (see, eg, 8/18, 8/6, 7/9, 6/28, etc. etc. – http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=6211). Not bad starts (except 7/9 – but these things happen), just not lights out. If we’re playing a team like Cleveland or KC, the off start still gives us a chance for a win, but against the Yankees or the Rays, it is more troublesome. He’s fantastic. I might consider him the second most valuable person on the team, but he’s not at the level of fantastic that even comes close to Joe for me, personally.

by dctwin on Sep 17, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Liriano OTHER!!!!

There’s no way Liriano is not at least ahead of Cuddy and Kubel come on!!

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Sep 17, 2010 11:50 PM EDT reply actions

Voted for Cuddy

Because Nick Punto wasn’t on the list.

"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez

by myjah on Sep 18, 2010 4:34 PM EDT reply actions

WOrst argument for Cuddyer came from Dick today

“The twins don’t have a back-up for Cuddyer. So he is, without question, the most indispensable Twin. On that basis alone, he should be the team MVP.”

Hugh? So he could hit .200 with 50 errors and still be the MVP because he doesn’t have a back-up?

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 19, 2010 7:53 PM EDT reply actions

Versus Mauer?

Who exactly is Mauer’s fantastic backup?

by DJL44 on Sep 21, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Exactly

This is just ridiculous. I don’t think even guys who have been around the game their whole life understand how easy it is to be a mediocre fielding first baseman.

Cuddyer has been only slightly above league average hitter this year, while being a below average fielder at the easiest position to field. And that’s not taking into account the fact that he’s making more money than almost anyone else on the team.

I applaud Gardy for saying that he’s the MVP, because he seems like a guy who hits better when he’s comfortable and confident. I am embarassed that our TV guy is just a mouthpiece for the organization that cannot form an opinion on his own.

"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"

by Steven Ellingson on Sep 21, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh, and you're completely right about Mauer's backup

Mauer + Brock Peterson >>>>>> Butera + Cuddyer

And it’s nowhere near close.

Mauer to Butera is a drop in about 400(!!!) points in OPS. So, for Cuddyer to be equal in value to Mauer, using this (admittedly very blunt) criteria, his backup would need to project to hit a .360 OPS. Based on this, I’m willing to make another statement:

Mauer + Livan Hernandez(playing 1st base) > Butera + Cuddyer

And I’m completely serious about that.

"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"

by Steven Ellingson on Sep 21, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions