No Changes to Twins Training Staff
For those who have yet to see, Twins GM Bill Smith sat down with Phil Mackey and Patrick Reusse on Monday for an afternoon interview on 1500 ESPN Radio. There's some expected responses in there; the Twins will be looking for a shortstop upgrade this offseason, Joe Mauer's goal is to stay healthy (gasp!), and the Twins have come the shocking realization that Drew Butera is apparently a lackluster option with the bat and will look to upgrade offensively behind the plate (Realistically, there are probably some commenters here who could fit that bill).
What stuck out for me though was not only the fact that Smith said the training staff will remain intact for 2012, but the fact that he actually blamed the onslaught of injuries on bad luck and collisions. While that's true to some degree, there's a whole lot that can't be explained by collisions. More after the jump.
The Twins clearly had their share of unlucky injuries. Tsuyoshi Nishioka's near-immediate fracturing of a leg couldn't have helped his transition to the Major Leagues. Denard Span's concussion isn't something a trainer can do a whole lot to prevent, and Michael Cuddyer was going to get hit in the wrist with that pitch regardless of what Rick McWane and his staff did. Delmon Young hurting himself by running into a wall, of course, should be expected... but it's not the training staff's fault that he's a danger to himself every time he dons a glove.
But what about the other barrage of injuries this season? What about Alexi Casilla's recurring hamstring problems and the oblique strains sustained by Young, Jim Thome, and Glen Perkins? Smith also refers to Jason Kubel "crashing into" a wall, but Kubel told reporters he felt discomfort as soon as he jumped. By season's end, the only Opening Day batters seeing playing time were Cuddyer and Danny Valencia, and 80% of the Opening Day rotation was on the DL as well. These guys didn't all suffer fluke injuries.
There's also the constant misdiagnoses the fans had to endure in 2011. How many times did we hear that a player was "day-to-day" or could make a quick return, only to see them absent for another several weeks or even months? Mauer, Nishioka, Young, Kubel, the list goes on -- time and time again this season there were false reports of near returns. Young was supposed to be a one- or two-game scratch early on but missed 24 days. Span was originally diagnosed with "neck stiffness" and was back on the field just days after his concussion before he told trainers he didn't feel right following a Twins win. He eventually hit the DL where he stayed for 56 days. You can even interpret this quote (courtesy of Phil Mackey) from former Twin J.J. Hardy as a strike against this staff:
Hardy said the treatment he received from Orioles trainers was different than what had been tried in Minnesota, but he added, "I don't want to get into that too much and make people look bad, but yeah. It definitely was a little bit different."
Smith was quick to point out that this is the same training staff that's been in place since 2006, but it's not as if the Twins have been without injuries over the past several years. What about another injury-shortened season for Scott Baker? He missed 58 days with elbow injuries, has spent a total of 108 days on the DL (three stints) since May 2008, and had elbow surgery last winter. Kevin Slowey went through two different bouts of elbow injuries last season, and Nick Blackburn has had three surgeries performed in four years. Speaking of surgery, let's not forget that the Twins delayed Tommy John Surgery for both Joe Nathan and Pat Neshek, instead first hoping the pair could work through their partial UCL tears and avoid the procedure. Neshek sat on the DL with a UCL tear for the whole 2008 season before finally undergoing Tommy John that November. Upon his return to baseball in 2010, a misdiagnosis of a hand injury led to him publicly griping about the situation on Facebook.
Cuddyer has a fairly long injury history. Nick Punto could never stay on the field (although admittedly, some of his injuries were self-inflicted, and three DL trips in St. Louis this year suggest you can let the Twins off the hook for that one). Jesse Crain's right shoulder was an ongoing problem. Mauer tacked onto his injury log this year with whatever "bilateral leg weakness" is, in addition to an upper respiratory infection that eventually turned into a season-ending case of pneumonia.
No team is without injuries. There's no perfect training staff, and the Twins had an unquestionably high amount of rotten luck in 2011. But we also heard far too often that a player like Mauer or Span was on the verge of a return, only to find out something else was really wrong with them. None of this even mentions Justin Morneau, who racked up so many injuries this season that I lost count. A big part is his concussion, yes, but he also dealt with both wrist and neck injuries, and his tumultuous season lends itself to questioning the methods with which he was handled.
If the Twins aren't going to make changes to this training staff, then I hope we see them publicly discuss some changes to the training methodology. The injuries this year were too great to maintain the status quo and cross your fingers.
Steve Adams writes for MLBTradeRumors.com and contributes for MLB.com Fantasy Baseball and 612Sports.net. You can follow him on Twitter: @Adams_Steve
Thanks to Baseball Prospectus for the injury data that contributed to this post.
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So "rub some dirt on it" doesn't work?
It’s the pitching staff that makes me suspicious. None of these pitchers has been overworked yet they keep dealing with injuries. Gardy is pretty strict with the pitch counts and the pitchers often get extra rest.
followup
Aren’t the Twins a “long toss” team for pitchers? There is quite a bit of controversy about long toss versus other training methods.
That's interesting.
They don’t mention the Twins at all, so I’m still not sure what type of toss they use. I should read more about it.
Is long toss the traditional way? Is that what Nolan and Bert and other great pitchers were using?
by spanspanspan on Oct 19, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Just reading some more about it...
It seems like players favor long toss, but many teams have started using the post-TJ surgery practice regimen (which was developed for rehab) for healthy pitchers. Which doesn’t make much sense to me.
If Nolan Ryan is in favor of long toss, I say go with long toss.
by spanspanspan on Oct 19, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
FWIW
I’ve seen Twins pitchers doing long toss before games within the last couple of years. At the time, I was unaware that it was a specific warmup technique. When I saw an explanation of it this summer, the light bulb went off, “that’s what they were doing”.
I believe it was I Heart Farts doin’ the descriptin’.
some thoughts
I have no idea how the Twins’ training staff compares with other clubs, so I’m hesitant to make accusations of incompetence and demand changes. Other teams may have similar results, and fans from other teams may have the same complaints.
However, it is crazy to me how often players get either mis-diagnosed or end up being out much longer than the initial prediction. As Steve pointed out, there were a long list of players that were initially declared day-to-day with various ailments that turned into multi-week DL stints.
Not only injuries, but illness seemed to hit the Twins more frequently than normal. There seemed like at least once a month someone on the team (or multiple players) were fighting the flu or some such illness.
I think the training staff has two major responsibilities: help players recover from injuries and help prevent players from getting injured in the first place. And I feel like they have repeatedly failed in both areas this past season.
Yeah, the diagnosis part was strange
And, as Mr. Adams observed, is not a new issue. It could well be other things besides (or in addition to) the training staff; communication problems, management phiolosophy, agent involvement, etc. I remember part of Neshek’s argument was he felt he got conned into missing service time — or was that another pitcher? In any case, sometimes this organization’s parts seem to flow together with all the smoothness of 7-year-olds driving bumper cars. Unretire Terry Ryan!
Steve Goodman lives.
by twinsbrewer on Oct 18, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Or Microsoft throwing together a new edition of Windows.
Both Microsoft and the Twins Training staff have created a situation where there will be bugs/injuries.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Agreed
And what so frustrating to me is the high frequency of preventable injuries. Some number of strained obliques and pulled hammies is unavoidable. But this many? Sure seems like they aren’t stretching and training right.
I guess that might be strength and conditioning as well as training staff, but still.
Anyway, I’m glad to see you guys writing about it. I’ve been saying since spring training that the Twins were not up to par on training staff, but it doesn’t seem to get much attention.
Mackey
Too bad Mackey didnt.follow up and press Smith on that collision comment. Its not the first time Smith has said that. I guess he now has to play the role of bo-bo.
by clutterheart on Oct 18, 2011 8:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nice analysis
Every team suffers injuries, but it does seem like the Twins’ were hit with more than their fair share. We can’t help but wonder if their conditioning regimen is suspect. And then when we have comments such as JJ’s…
Weight training is emphasized so much that one wonders if it is too much. Remember when Joe Mauer wasn’t able to lift wieghts in spring 2009, so he had to work on his core? Well, he came into that season with 11 HR’s in May, and then as the season wore on ( and he presumably got back to weight training) his HR numbers tailed off drastically. Bert has often mentioned how he used to spend a lot of time just running, and doing actual baseball activities for training sessions. Now the guys sit on a bike and do “spinning.” Running on a treadmill, while convenient, doesn’t exercise the same muscles that running on solid ground does. Who knows if the great new training facilities at Target Field have led to a dependence on machines? Maybe the guys need to get outside and play more :-)
You also wonder when Delmon hurt his oblique during the ALDS. Leyland wasn’t going to have him on the active roster, but when Ordonez went down, Delmon was reinstated. And he played! Even hit 2 bombs in one game. Does Gardy need to get tougher? I don’t want to say any of the guys are faking injuries, but maybe it’s like when we were kids and didn’t feel like going to school. If I wasn’t bleeding, delirious, or comatose my mother MADE me go to school!
Which brings up bilateral leg weakness. Maybe Joe was really suffering. Maybe it was lack of conditioning. Maybe he was worn out from tango lessons. The thing is, we don’t know because nobody on the team would elaborate. The team definitely needs to improve its communication skills.
The other teams could make trouble for us if they win. — Yogi Berra
by Twnzfan on Oct 18, 2011 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I'm surprised we know as much as we do about injuries
Health information is protected and your employer isn’t usually allowed to just release it.
True
However what we do know is the actual condition of the player and his injury. We don’t really need to know the details of an x-ray that Ben Revere had on his right arm after sliding into second and breaking said arm on opening day with JJ Hardy becoming public enemy number one in Minnesota because he broke Revere’s arm. I am not saying that this will happen, but it is just an example.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Because training was better in Bert's day?
Um, no. I do not want the training regimens of the days when being strong was thought to be bad. That’s is superstition, not training.
As for Joe’s leg weakness, what do you mean maybe? You could see that he wasn’t right in his performance.
Getting my catcher's gear out right now.
See you guys at tryouts!
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
Pft, I've got you beat out for catcher, sorry, not urluckyday :p
See what I did there?! lol :P
"I don't really give a f*** and my excuse is that I'm young, and I'm only getting older somebody shoulda told ya" ~Drake (I'm On One)
by twinsgirl197 on Oct 19, 2011 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
OT but interesting
link Today’s La Velle column notes that the Twins are gonna see if Rosario can convert to 2b. Would be pretty awesome if it works out.
The baseball gods know that the OF is full of prospects...
Interesting that they’re looking into this now. So much better than waiting for 2014 and going “Aw hell we have 17,000 outfielders, what are we gonna do NOW?”
It’s just a proactive approach, and I like that. Not that it’ll necessarily work, but it’s interesting that they’re trying.
Agreed
But imagine if it works? Real power potential from a MI. He has a chance to be special even in the outfield, but 2b would be amazing.
Trainers and Medical staff
As a person who has been sent to physical therapy a few times through my life, I have seen a major evolution. Rehab used to be tape it up, stretch it out, and restrengthen the joint. Now physical therapists are now getting doctorates. Their diagnosis have become so much better that the exercises and stretches are more tailored to the actual injury and person making recovery quicker and longer lasting.
So, with all that has gone on this year and B.S. stating that the training staff has not changed since 2006, I really doubt that the training staff is as good as it should be.
by I_was_here on Oct 18, 2011 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If the Red Sox can sit in their clubhouse, not exercise, eat fried chicken and not get injured, and the twins actually stay in shape and get injured, you know there is a problem.
The one I also noticed was Thome. Even as a 40 year old, he was pulling obliques and various muscles every other week. He seemed to have way too many issues.
Thome has had issues for several years
It’s part of why he didn’t play the field anymore.
And part of why the WSox let him get away
And part of why he was so cheap.
by spanspanspan on Oct 18, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, come now
Lester said they only ordered from Popeye’s maybe once a month. And it was only ever 9th inning rally beer. And there were definitely no video games. And they did go to the weight room sometimes. And… and…
As a recovering Boston fan, the Red Sox collapse is kind of hysterical.
by ColossusOfRhode on Oct 18, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe you would like to co-star in the latest tragedy.
I call it, death of a thousand Red Sox fans.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Uh, no
I generally don’t wish death on my friends.
by ColossusOfRhode on Oct 18, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It is a play, they are not really dead.
They just kill some pitchers who were drinking beer in the dugout. The fans get “killed” when RICO laws are put into effect.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Are you saying what happens in plays isn't real?
So…the Wicked Witch of the West and Darth Vader didn’t really die? They’re like still at large? How am I supposed to get a good night’s sleep with that on my mind?
Next thing you know, LNP doesn’t really have a magic unicorn and then…well, what’s the point in getting out of bed in the morning?
The other teams could make trouble for us if they win. — Yogi Berra
Must be an "off-off-off-Broadway" production
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Oct 19, 2011 12:39 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
They say the neon lights barely flicker
On off-off-off-Broadwaaayyy…..
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Oct 19, 2011 5:56 AM EDT up reply actions
As a Twins fan,
I was surprised how little hatred I carried toward the Yankees this post-season. Then I realized that I was just so thrilled that “The ’27 Yankees” choked their way out of playoff participation at all.
Even my friend with Red Sox season tickets thought it was hilarious.
But I still liked watching the Yankees go down.
by ColossusOfRhode on Oct 19, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Can an individual Twin take matters into his own hands?
I get that on the road you are kind of stuck (or maybe you can go to home teams doctors?) but at home if I were a player, I would get my own trainer and avoid the team doctors whenever possible.
But is that even allowed? God, I wish ex-Twins like Hardy would say something publicly, because it drives me CRAZY to know something is wrong, but not be able to learn ANYTHING about what it is.
I was thinking the exact same thing
Regardless of the player’s ability, you’d think it would be in their best interest. I hurt my hip/low back running a little over a year ago. One of the first things both my doctor and chiropractor said was that we’re all individuals and sometimes methods and success varies. Don’t be afraid to ask for something else and definitely don’t be afraid to seek out someone else if what I’m doing doesn’t work.
I’d hope they’d let them seek out someone if they don’t agree with the advice of the training staff. I don’t make even $4 from running races, let alone $400k+ league minimum. Given it’s their actual livelihood and the amount of $$ were talking, I would hope it’s and optino for them.
Rec'd and thanks Steve
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Oct 19, 2011 5:58 AM EDT reply actions
Lynch mob mentality, scapegoating, and exaggerations
This year I think the twins had a total of 17 IL designations, last season 14, 13 in 2009 and 9 in 2008. You can probably do your own (and better) counting here.
Assuming I got the numbers right, I think they discredit this hyperbolic assertion that the training staff is a wreck and a problem. Looks to me like other teams from 2011 and 2010 seemed to average about 10-13 IL designations each season. So 9-14 is right in the ballpark and 17 is an outlier. None of those numbers prove the training staff is competent, but none of those numbers prove the training staff is incompetent.
The extra four can easily be attributable to bad luck rather than a faulty training staff.
and the Twins had an unquestionably high amount of rotten luck in 2011bingo. end of article. But the author nonetheless drums up a false argument based on speculation and fear mongering without any facts.
We’re subjected to analysis like this: Bill Smith
blamed the onslaught of injuries on bad luck and collisions. While that’s true to some degree, there’s a whole lot that can’t be explained by collisions.
That’s just disingenuous arguing. Bill Smith blamed bad luck and collisions, not just collisions. The author here himself recounts 4 “collisions”: Span, Young, Cuddyer, and Nishioka and yet rudely and disingenuously calls out Bill Smith for including collisions in his explanation for the injuries. I don’t get it.
The assertions of misdiagnosis are laughable. No medical information presented, no quotes from players, no access to the trainers, coaching staff, training rooms, or players themselves. Just a house of cards built out of critical assertions, sourgrapes and speculation.
I’m not going to defend the training staff. I have no idea whether they are doing a good job or a poor job. The problem with this article is that neither does the author.
I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.
by montanatwinsfan on Oct 20, 2011 8:00 PM EDT reply actions

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