Eddie Rosario, not Ben Revere, makes move to 2B!

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 18, 2011 6:58 PM EDT

Definately some good news today, I think we can all be strongly behind this decision as fans. The organization has 2 major positions of strength / Depth and personell in 2 and only 2 positions. They are outfield and starting pitching (let me rephrase the 2nd position.... Strikethrowing, low velocity hurling command oriented #3,4,5 starters)

Which is definately not a bad thing, just wish short-stop or thirdbase along with Relief Pitching could be a future strength. In the way Oufield has been the last few seasons. Maybe Sano is a step in the right direction.

Anyways Rosario is the second rated Twins prospect on John Sickles site giving him a "B" grade with "boderline B+ in the commentary" .

Image Detail

The Co - Appy LG MVP's in 2011 Twins Eddie Rosario, and Braves Brandon Drury.

Rosario has a ferocious swing from the left-side and likes to hit the ball out of the park; seemingly every time up, he has one thing on his mind. He has tremendous speed and has shown the ability to put the ball in play regulary. One thing is clear though, as he moves up the system (he'll likely be in the Midwest Lg. next year at Beloit A-ball) He needs to improve his eye at the plate and Strike Out less, or make even more contact!!!

If he can do that, (stike out less) He'll be a potential stud at 2B for the Twins in a few years.
Drawing walks in the way Aaron Hicks and Chris Herrmann have definately wouldn't hurt either.

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For the Twins "Latino" = Middle Infielder

by DJL44 on Oct 18, 2011 9:24 PM EDT reply actions

Notwithstanding

Plouffe, Hughes, Cuddyer, Nishi, Tolbert, Punto, Dinkleman, Hudson, Hardy, Harris …

by Gunnarthor on Oct 19, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions

There is some hyperbole there

But the Twins do tend to get fixated on their particular “type” of player.

by DJL44 on Oct 19, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions

Again, not really

The Twins have been very active in Latin America over the last decade but those players have been all over the field, not just middle infielders. When most young players sign, they usually get labeled as a shortstop or a centerfielder (if they aren’t pitching) and move toward other positions as they grow. Since Latin Americans can sign as young as 16, they usually get grouped at short/center since they are even further back developmentally. It also happens fairly often with American high schoolers, where the best athletes are usually put at short or center in high school – Cuddy was a shortstop, for instance, when he was drafted.

by Gunnarthor on Oct 19, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

It won't hurt to try it

The only downside is if Rosario gets injured learning to turn the pivot.

by DJL44 on Oct 20, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Carlos Gomez

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Oct 19, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Tony Oliva

Did I do it right?

by spanspanspan on Oct 19, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Rodney Cline Carew

I’m pretty sure I didn’t do it right.

by ColossusOfRhode on Oct 19, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions

zoilo versailes

i have no idea how his name is really spelled

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 19, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Close... Zoilo Versalles

by ColossusOfRhode on Oct 20, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions

I like this

So long as it doesn’t give them ammo to keep Revere starting every day. They do have a glut in the OF and I like Revere much better as a 4th OF… But if they think Hicks, Arcia, Benson, and Morales should all be fixtures, then putting Rosario at 2nd makes for a potential huge upgrade in the middle if he can stick.

by diehardtwinsfan on Oct 19, 2011 8:16 AM EDT reply actions

I love Rosario but he's at least three years away

If Revere is still around, he’ll be a steely old veteran by the time Rosario shows up.

by DavidRF on Oct 19, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions

this

And, while he put up video game numbers at GCL, perhaps the Twins think he isn’t quite that good and his hitting tools might play better at second rather than a corner OF position (if he can’t stick at center). But it is fun to be excited about a young prospect like him again.

by Gunnarthor on Oct 19, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions

video game numbers in Appy Lg. this year, yes

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 19, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions

my bad

by Gunnarthor on Oct 19, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions

I love it

Move a guy from a position of strength to a position of weakness. Best case scenario he continues to develop and plays decently in the MI. Worst case he flops at 2B and moves back to the outfield.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Oct 20, 2011 9:55 AM EDT reply actions

Maybe they learned their lesson with Revere

When Revere was Rosario’s age, he was the only bona fide outfield prospect in the system. Benson was a football player trying to learn the game. Hicks wasn’t around yet. Ditto Morales or Arcia. So they kept him in the outfield. But, in hindsight, they probably would have tried him at 2B in Beloit. If they had, he’d be the second baseman of the future.

Now they have a chance to make the decison over again. And they’re making the right choice. The difference is, Rosario’s bat will play at almost any position. So he’d have a plus bat for a 2B if he can make the transition. Revere’s bat would be just adequate at 2B if he had a plus glove.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Oct 20, 2011 11:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Revere played infield in HS

The Twins didn’t “learn their lesson” on Revere. The Twins moved him off second base after drafting him because he couldn’t field ground balls, and in any case didn’t have enough arm to play 2nd base. They determined keeping him at 2nd base wasn’t an option. Had they thought he could handle 2nd base, he would never have been moved to the OF.

Fielding ground balls is a skill not every baseball player has, or can develop. Pretty much any baseball player good enough to get drafted can play OF, as catching fly balls is orders of magnitude easier than fielding ground balls.

by USAFChief on Oct 25, 2011 5:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Who doesn't have enough arm for 2B?

The throw is 90 feet or less.

by DJL44 on Oct 25, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions

+1

His problem at 2nd isn’t his arm. The bat plays better there too. But if he cannot field a grounder, you have a big problem. Not sure if that’s true or not, but I dont’ see Revere having much value as a starter unless his bat improves significantly, or he suddenly moves to 2nd and can play elite defense there.

by diehardtwinsfan on Oct 25, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions

That's just crazy

To declare that an 18 year old can’t ever learn to field grounders is crazy. He was much more likely to learn to take grounders than that he’d develop an outfield arm or power.

Cory Koskie couldn’t field a ground ball to save his life when we drafted him. Gardy made him into one of the surest fielders in the game at third with hundreds of grounders a day. Learning how to field grounders is one of the few things anybody can do.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Oct 25, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions

"To declare that an 18 year old can’t ever learn to field grounders is crazy."

The Twins did it with Revere, and teams do it all the time.

If not, every team would start every player out as a shortstop. Most all players start at the most difficult defensive position they have a chance to develop at. If the Twins felt Revere had a chance to stay at 2nd base (again…he played IF in HS) they would have kept him there, at least for a year or two.

They didn’t.

by USAFChief on Oct 26, 2011 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions

He'd have to be pretty bad at ground balls for them to make that determination

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Oct 26, 2011 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions

I never said that he couldn't learn it.

re-read my post

by diehardtwinsfan on Oct 26, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions

No, but USAChief said the Twins moved him because they thought he couldn't learn

First of all, I don’t believe they would make that call considering that they have developed many an infielder who was raw when drafted. Second, if they did make that call, it would be crazy. It’s a heck of a lot harder to make a second baseman into a center fielder than vice versa. You can learn to field grounders. You can’t learn to throw harder than your arm will allow.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Oct 26, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Speed = outfielder

Generally they put guys with blazing speed (range) in the outfield if possible. It is possible to learn how to throw harder and add velocity through strength training.

by DJL44 on Oct 26, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Not buying it

Some of the greatest second basemen were the fastest guys on their teams. Jackie Robinson and Rod Carew to name two. The Twins rookie stolen base records belonged to second basemen until this year (Knoblauch, Rivas). It’s not a given that you move the fast guys to the outfield. You need speed up the middle at short, second and center.

Also, you can add maybe 5% of your current velocity with strength training. But if you top out at 60 MPH, you’ll never hit 75. The reason why every other club in the league rated him as a third rounder was his arm was never going to hit 75, which is the minimum strength for a big league center or right fielder. I didn’t put a gun on him, but I saw some throws last year that I’ve never seen in all my years of following the Twins—throws that didn’t make it to second base on the fly from medium-deep center. I saw Travis Hafner score on a sac fly to shallow center field. The throw bounced four times before making it home.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Oct 26, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Robinson played everywhere

I really don’t know why Revere’s arm is that bad. Shannon Stewart had a shoulder injury. There’s really no reason why an athlete should have that much trouble throwing especially when so much of it is your legs.

by DJL44 on Oct 26, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions

If I remember correctly

Revere had some sort of arm injury while playing football in high school.

"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."

by John_Locke on Oct 27, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions

Agree on the arm strength

I’ve never heard of a single case of someone with a “liability arm” improving it.

by DavidRF on Oct 27, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions

David Eckstein played big league SS

by DJL44 on Oct 27, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions

I wish Revere had Eckstein's arm strength

Eckstein’s arm was comparable to Punto’s or Castro’s. Besides, how does that relate to his arm improving? It was always below average, but never like Revere’s.

Revere’s arm is comparable to Donnie Hill’s. He had an OPS of .721 for TK as a utility infielder in 1992. He played one game at short and was sent packing. TK needed a guy who could get it over to first on the fly.

Gardy love’s Revere’s smile and attitude, so much so that Span has become the subject of trade rumors twice since Revere was called up. I wonder how TK would deal with that arm. Not well, I imagine.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Oct 27, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions

"It’s a heck of a lot harder to make a second baseman into a center fielder than vice versa."

That’s 100% backwards.

There are countless examples of players moving from IF to OF. The reverse is exceedingly rare, particularly moving from OF to middle IF.

Players thought to have the chops to handle an IF position are almost always given that chance before moving to OF, and stay in the IF until they reach a point where they prove they can’t handle it anymore, either because they encounter higher competition or because they age but their bat still plays. This is because it’s much more difficult to play IF than OF. Players don’t move “left” on the defensive spectrum often. They move “right” or “down” the defensive spectrum.

Again, if the Twins thought Revere had a chance to play 2nd base, they’d have left him there when they drafted him.

by USAFChief on Oct 28, 2011 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions

He has value in CF

He’s still a plus defender in CF. I have hopes he can learn to draw a walk.

by DJL44 on Oct 25, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions

“Pretty much any baseball player good enough to get drafted can play OF, as catching fly balls is orders of magnitude easier than fielding ground balls.”

Delmon Young would disagree with the above statement… Although I doubt he would be any good at fielding ground balls either.

by MNSportsGuy on Oct 25, 2011 7:11 PM EDT reply actions

"Delmon Young would disagree with the above statement"

Delmon was a below average major league outfielder, and still turned 99.9% of the balls he got to into outs.

Again…catching fly balls is child’s play compared to turning ground balls into outs.

by USAFChief on Oct 26, 2011 2:53 AM EDT reply actions

i pretty much agree with what you had to say.....

infield is generally the hardest position (s) to play

I’d rank ’em like this in terms of Value defensively

1. SS
2. 3B
3. C
4. CF
5. 2B
6. 1B
7. RF
8. LF

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 26, 2011 5:03 AM EDT up reply actions

Close

C (the number of chances to screw up is incredibly high)

SS
2B
3B
CF

1B
RF
LF
DH

by DJL44 on Oct 26, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions

1B v LF

Some guys just can’t field grounders. Other guys can’t catch popups. One or the other determines corner OF from 1B. One thing about 1B – there actually are a lot of chances for a superior fielder to show his value (Keith Hernandez) because you can play someone there with shortstop talent who throws lefthanded. LF and RF only get so many flyballs and most chances in the OF are easy. That means there are only a few plays a month where a superlative LF will make a difference versus an average LF.

by DJL44 on Oct 26, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions

DH?

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Millar nice shirt lol my god awesome lol only u can do that lol" -Ozzie Guillen

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Oct 26, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions

sorry i cant' buy 2B at 3 and 3B at 4

3B is more important defensively than 2b.

I’d rather have Evan Longoria on my team than one of the all time great second basemen who has won several gold gloves.

Catcher at #1 i can Agree with but not 2nd Base over 3rd Base.

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 27, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Why do you think so?

3B gets fewer chances. 3B doesn’t have to turn the pivot on the double play or make a play in the hole. Range is not as important at 3B due to foul territory. About the only thing harder about playing 3B is coming in on a bunt.

3B was more important in the deadball era when they fielded more bunts and didn’t turn as many double plays. That defensive spectrum still exists at some levels (high school, wood bat amateur) but not in the majors anymore.

by DJL44 on Oct 28, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions

Because the throw across the diamond is much easier than the throw from second base.

Also more balls are hit to third base then second here.

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 28, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions

reverse everything i said

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 28, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions

.ereh dnoces neht esab driht ot tih era sllab erom oslA

.esab dnoces morf worht eht naht reisae hcum si dnomaid eht ssorca worht eht esuaceB

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Millar nice shirt lol my god awesome lol only u can do that lol" -Ozzie Guillen

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Oct 29, 2011 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

almost correct, thanks

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 29, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions

The throw from 3B is farther but in some cases easier

The 3B is almost always moving toward 1B when he throws. The 2B has to move in the opposite direction and throw against the motion of his body. 3B never has to throw from in the hole because that is a foul ball.

by DJL44 on Oct 29, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions

99.9% of the balls he got to

There’s the rub. It’s not whether you field the balls you get to. It’s whether you get to them at all. Fred Manrique always caught the balls he got to. He just never got to any that weren’t hit right at him.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Oct 26, 2011 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions

maybe it's because I suck at OF but I beg to disagree with the last sentence.. lol

Fly balls + Twinsgirl197 = bad things for Twinsgirl197. Like, I almost broke my nose and am kind of scared of them now…

"I don't really give a f*** and my excuse is that I'm young, and I'm only getting older somebody shoulda told ya" ~Drake (I'm On One)

by twinsgirl197 on Oct 26, 2011 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Try catching it with your glove instead of your face next time.

NO!

YES!

I hope this advice is helpful.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Millar nice shirt lol my god awesome lol only u can do that lol" -Ozzie Guillen

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Oct 26, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions

I lost it in the sun...

not my fault a softball is the same color as the sun!!!

"I don't really give a f*** and my excuse is that I'm young, and I'm only getting older somebody shoulda told ya" ~Drake (I'm On One)

by twinsgirl197 on Oct 26, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions

and for the recor I'm better at line drives,

Im actually goo at laying out on the field to get those when we esperately need someone in the OF. but when they are huge flies way up in the sky, I lose them. something about that makes it hard for me to see. I can get infiel pop ups though

"I don't really give a f*** and my excuse is that I'm young, and I'm only getting older somebody shoulda told ya" ~Drake (I'm On One)

by twinsgirl197 on Oct 26, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions