Off-Season Blueprint Philosophy, Part I: Twins Need More Strikeout Pitchers
We went into this in some depth last winter. Mister_S talked about buy-low bullpen options We had endless discussions in comment threads; pitching as a whole was brought up in numerous front page posts. And in my off-season blueprint, I said this:
Strikeout/Power Pitching: The Twins need some. I'm not necessarily talking about bringing in a staff Ace to pair with Francisco Liriano, but the goal should be to bring in as many strikeout arms as payroll allows you to. Southpaws are prefferable, but the bottom line is that pitching to contact equates to playing with fire against teams with stacked lineups like New York's. If a hitter swings and misses, he can't do damage.
There were a great deal of free agent bullpen arms available, many of them ultimatley had on affordable contracts. The Minnesota front office understood they needed to address the bullpen, but instead of doing themselves a favor they brought in Jim Hoey, Chuck James, Phil Dumatrait, Scott Diamond, Eric Hacker, and Dusty Hughes. Those decisions had predictable results.
The Minnesota front office found a staff full of contact pitchers, jettisoned two very good (if not solid) defenders in the middle infield, and allowed a trio of plodding corner outfielders to stay on the roster. It didn't make any sense then, and in hindsight makes even less sense. But we don't need to revisit that severe lack of vision here. This is a solution-based blog. It's on our resume.
Back to the philosophy of needing more strikeout pitchers - you could argue that the Minnesota outfield will be more dynamic next season and that, depending on who's playing right field, we could boast one of the best defensive outfields in baseball. You could also argue that the Twins will look for improvements in the infield, especially since that's a topic that's surfaced from Bill Smith so early. Having made those improvements, you could also argue that finding strikeout pitchers becomes more of a luxury than a necessity.
To which I say you'd simply be enabling a broken philosophy.
All you need to do is look at the construction of the Major League roster. The last real strikeout pitchers this organization brought in are Joe Nathan and Francisco Liriano. That was 2004.
The problem isn't that the Twins have a philosophy of pitching to contact (which isn't just "throw the ball over the plate", by the way), it's that they seem averse to even trying to sign or trade for a player who can make batters swing and miss. A team can be successful without those players, but being able to strike hitters out is a part of the game, too. Being able to mix in a few more swing-and-miss pitchers will not just help keep runners off the bases, it could help some of the other pitchers by providing a change of pace.
Years ago, bringing in LaTroy Hawkins after Tony Fjore wasn't fair on opposing batters. That's change of pace. Lining up Juan Rincon in front of Joe Nathan (or Pat Neshek in front of Joe Nathan) helped this team to shorten the game. There's a reason that Johan Santana was one of the best pitchers in baseball for half a decade. Those four players could strike out more than a batter per inning.
And again, I'm not expecting an ace, or All-Star caliber relievers. But there are quality players to be had.
This winter, Bill Smith and the Minnesota front office have a unique opportunity to save this team from itself. Last year was an unmitigated disaster, and part of that is their fault, but unless they do a really good job this winter we might be looking at a window of three or four years before the next division title. And part of doing that good job will be recognizing what kind of things need to change. Going after and bringing in players who can get swings and misses is a part that.
We'll be talking more about the 2011-2012 off-season blueprint and philosophy this week and weekend.
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Aren't Hoey and Olivieros supposed to be strikeout/power guys?
Granted, Hoey can’t through strikes.
Also, this analysis is more reason to think the problem is Smith.
With this...
depending on who’s playing right field, we could boast one of the best defensive outfields in baseball.
You mean DeJesus?
I’d love to see more strikeout pitchers next year. Baker and Perkins were incredibly fun to watch, before Baker got shut down and Perkins wore out. I have some hope that Oliveros can find himself and be one of those guys. I have some hope Liriano can still figure it out. I have little hope for anyone else on the pitching staff, though. That doesn’t mean guys like Swarzak and Deunsing don’t have a place as middle relievers—I like them, a lot—but they aren’t going to be K guys.
Absolutely.
Thought of him, too. Not sure he’s ready to make the jump yet, but he’ll be exciting. Strong arm too, which fits well for right field.
I think he needs some time in AAA
But I kind of expect to see him with the Twins sometime in 2012.
by spanspanspan on Oct 20, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Probably another reason we'll be building for 2013-14
This season will not only be a rebuilding process, but it’ll give a chance for players like Benson to season a bit more. I’m excited to see what he’ll bring when he’s fully ready.
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Oct 21, 2011 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions
It is confirmed
Pitching to contact doesn’t work at all. That is unless the following players made up our infield:
1B: Justin Morneau or Joe Mauer
2B: Jimmy Rollins
SS: Jose Reyes
3B: Danny Valencia
Note: I am not saying that we must get Reyes. I am just saying that we need a good baseball defense for Pitch to Contact™.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
You need good defense no matter who is on the mound
Even Verlander lets the ball get into play sometimes.
by spanspanspan on Oct 20, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You also need to be able to outscore the opponent no matter how good pitching is
See: Philadelphia Phillies 2011
"We're all in this together. Except me - I'm retiring because you guys f*%King suck, and there's no God-D@mned way I'm wasting any more of my summers traveling cross country with this group of fail. Bill Smith can suck my c@%k!"
-Actual quote from John Gordon via montanatwinsfan
That is true
But I think Verlander could survive with the defense that we had at second and short. I am talking about having Casilla at short and Nishi at second, after he came back from his fractured leg. For the record we also need to score more runs than the other team.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I thought the duo played rather well since Nishi's return.
The problem is that Nishi didn’t have a good bat. Couple Nishi with Drew Butera, Ben Revere (in the early part of the season), and a couple of others, one can guess why we had only 63 wins this season. Their defense was fine once they settled down.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Yes
Sorry, I meant those two made outscoring the opponent harder because they cannot hit. Or did not hit last year.
If you look at Casilla's splits...
He just had a bad april/march. May/June/July, he was adequate for a 2B/SS (10 doubles in July!). Then the hamstring…
by spanspanspan on Oct 20, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
How many years in a row has that been his story
That’s the problem with him. He’s look good for a few months and then absolutely, irredeemably atrocious for a month.
TWHS
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Oct 21, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
This, it's seems to me, is the key to winning games
For the record we also need to score more runs than the other team.
I hope I’m not going too far out on a limb here.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Oct 21, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Bravo
I agree whole heartedly with this article, and the examples were excellent.
JIM JAMS BUSINESS IS MASHING TATERS, AND BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!
I agree
I’m curious. Where does a team’s pitching philosophy come from? With a team like the Rangers, it’s pretty obvious (Nolan). But with the Twins… is it the FO, is it Gardy, is it Andy?
by spanspanspan on Oct 20, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Hard to say,
But I am saying Rick Anderson as a possibilty.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
The organization's pitching philosophy doesn't come from the pitching coach.
It’s the front office as a whole. They target the players they want, via trade or free agency. And you have to believe they have some input over who gets drafted, of course. It all starts at the top.
Rick’s job is pretty box: help the pitchers on the MLB roster to pitch the way the Twins want them to pitch, within the confines of who they are. Help them with mechanins, make suggestions, help them learn. But he doesn’t make the call on which type of guys the org goes after – and that’s where the philosophy comes from. From the mindset of those in charge.
It sounds like maybe budget is an issue
I haven’t looked, but I would guess power/strikeout pitchers fetch more $$.
For many years, the Twins have been a relatively poor team. Perhaps the organization decided a starting rotation of #2-4 pitchers, plus very good defense, was the best way to spend the money. That’s the “Twins Way” as I understand it.
Reality has changed though. I’m excited to see how they handle it.
by spanspanspan on Oct 20, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Those kinds of pitchers do fetch more cash.
But this is a really good point. In years past, when budgets were already stretched, it would have been tough to justify spending millions of dollars on the bullpen.
Now it’s different. The Twins spent nearly $20 million on two relievers just last season.
But we used to develop our own
See Jesse Crain, Hawkins and Santana (sort of).
Jesse
You basically reversed yourself here.
Those in charge include Rick Anderson who you say doesn’t preach the pitching philosophy. If that was true, what was he doing as coach?
My point is that Rick Anderson develops the plan for getting batters out, and it is up to the battery to carry out those plans. Granted Pitch to Contact™ might be the Twins Way™, but it clearly doesn’t work with a subpar defense.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I didn't reverse myself, you just don't understand.
Rick Anderson isn’t a guy in charge, not in terms of the organization. He’s in charge like Gardy’s in charge – of the product on the field. He doesn’t make calls on personnel, he doesn’t advise on trade targets. He doesn’t even tell Gardy how to use the bullpen. He makes suggestions.
Anderson helps pitchers gameplan, but there’s a difference between “in-game” pitching , and organizational pitching philosophy.
I can't imagine you are possibly correct.
If the organization isn’t consulting Rick Anderson for advice on trade targets or drafts or organizational philosophy for pitching, then you are basically asserting they are one of the most incompetent organizations to ever exist.
Don’t buy it for a second.
I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.
by montanatwinsfan on Oct 20, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Ignorance
The Twins organization is proudly ignorant of basic realities like the importance of missing bats for pitchers. Yet, they fret over hitters who strike out too much. So they understand it is bad for hitters to whiff, but refuse to believe it is good for pitchers to make them do so.
The same thing applies with walks. The Twins are almost maniacal in teaching pitchers to avoid walks, but yet do not emphasize the importance of hitters taking walks. So their philosophies are not only wrong, but internally inconsistent as well.
The Twins seem to take a sort of perverse pride in their refusal to accept things that the other 29 organizations now do. It’s extremely arrogant and foolish. It fits with their behavior in other areas though, e.g., Smith making excuses rather than taking responsibility for his mistakes.
hey don't let a little thing like common sense stand in your way, let the unmitigated hyperbole flow.
I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.
by montanatwinsfan on Oct 20, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Montana's getting at your wording, but you're essentially right
The Twins do indeed take a dogmatic approach to their philosophies. I think part of this comes from the fact that it has yielded plenty of good results, but it was more acceptable when finances were limited and they were getting by with teams that had to field Tony Fiore and Henry Blanco. Now that they’ve got a higher payroll, but more frustrating recent results (12 straight playoff losses!), there are no excuses.
I think you just embellish your post a bit to characterize the Twins organization as sinister in acting every way it does. It’s a little over-the-top. But there’s no denying the Twins are stubborn in the way they approach the game, and have refused to acknowledge it when it’s failed. Smith’s comments last season were a perfect example (didn’t he blame Casilla and Tolbert’s lack of production at some point?).
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Oct 21, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you.
You have explained my thoughts in a much more diplomatic way. I am not a fan of people using exaggerated comments that are all or nothing. Very little in this world is all or nothing and that is especially true in the world of human constructs.
Another way to look at it is drivelikejehu’s comments embellish one weakness into an argument that makes the Twins organization look uber-foolish and incompetent. We don’t know how competent they are, or aren’t. We do know they have been pretty darned successful the past decade under the current regime. And yet we have people who will so quickly suggest that the managers, coaches or front office have no capacity to do “X” or don’t understand “Y” – essentially claiming they are incompetent.
I find those types of arguments distasteful. Sorry for my acerbicness, drivlikejehu.
I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.
by montanatwinsfan on Oct 21, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Walks
I think you are wrong about not encouraging guys to take walks.
But lately we’ve had a lot of guys who are bad at it. Some of them look like me playing Road To The Show.
Also, while I agree with Jesse’s overall point, you’d rather pitch to contact than give up a bunch of walks trying to strike guys out, especially if your defense is good.
Great article, and hopefully one that will come true
I think the budgetary constraints factored into this issue in the past, but I fear the classic Twins Way complacency even now. They’re talking about getting at least one starter openly, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up being a tepid signing. And I’m not saying it has to be an ace or bust, just a good strikeout pitcher, something of an Edwin Jackson/James Shields variety. I’d be fine with that. But I won’t believe it until I see it.
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Oct 21, 2011 1:01 AM EDT reply actions

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