Joe Nathan By The Numbers
The Minnesota Twins officially announced yesterday that they had declined Joe Nathan's $12.5 million option for 2012, choosing instead to pay his $2 million buyout and bid for his services on the free agent market.
This was bittersweet news for Twins fans. Intellectually, most Twins fans agree that picking up Nathan's option - which would have covered his age-37 season - would have been a mistake, especially given the number of holes on the team that need to be filled this offseason. But Nathan ranks as one of the most popular players in recent Twins history. On an emotional level, the prospect of seeing Nathan end his career in a different uniform is a painful possibility for many Twins fans.
If this is the end of Nathan's tenure with the Twins, I thought it'd be a good time to step back and put Joe's career in some perspective.We'll dive in after the jump:
We all remember back in August when Nathan set the franchise saves record when he recorded his 255th save as a Twin. Here's a list at the names Nathan bypassed in his seven seasons pitching for the Twins:
|
Player |
Saves |
|
Joe Nathan |
260 |
|
Rick Aguilera |
254 |
|
116 |
|
|
Ron Davis |
108 |
|
Jeff Reardon |
104 |
Nathan pitched 463.1 innings for the Twins while accumulating those 260 saves, posting an ERA of 2.16 and an absurd 4.19 strikeout-to-walk ratio. His 2.16 ERA is the lowest among any Twins pitcher in history (1961-2011) with at least 400 innings pitched:
|
Name |
ERA |
IP |
Years |
|
Joe Nathan |
2.16 |
463.1 |
2004-2011 |
|
Al Worthington |
2.62 |
473.1 |
1964-1969 |
|
Dean Chance |
2.67 |
664.0 |
1967-1969 |
|
Tom Hall |
3.00 |
455.1 |
1968-1971 |
|
Jim Merritt |
3.03 |
686.2 |
1965-1968 |
He also ranks as one of the franchise's all-time great strikeout artists. Among all Twins pitchers who have thrown more than 100 innings, Nathan's 10.9 K/9 ratio ranks at the top of the list:
|
Name |
K/9 |
IP |
|
Joe Nathan |
10.9 |
463.1 |
|
10.5 |
129.2 |
|
|
9.5 |
1308.2 |
|
|
8.9 |
683.1 |
|
|
Tom Hall |
8.5 |
455.1 |
I think it's pretty clear from the charts above that Nathan easily ranks among the Twins all-time great relievers, if not the best in team history. But how important was Nathan to the Twins recent run of division championships and playoff appearances?
Nathan became the team's closer in 2004, joining the club after they had just won back-to-back division titles in 2002 and 2003. With Nathan closing the door, the team would go on to win three more division titles in the next six seasons, narrowly missing a fourth title in 2008. Typically when we want to figure out a player's value from season-to-season we turn to Wins Above Replacement. However, WAR is awfully hard on relievers, a fact that has been the subject of many debates and discussions since the metric began receiving considerable acceptance (for more on the subject, start here). So while WAR won't credit Nathan with a major share of the team's success over the past 8 years, there is one well-regarded metric that thinks Nathan has been the team's MVP since he joined the club in 2004.
Judging by Win Probability Added (WPA) - which you can read about here if you're not already familiar with the concept - Joe Nathan has been the single most valuable Twin during his time with the club. And it's really not very close:
|
Name |
WPA (2004-2011) |
|
Joe Nathan |
23.66 |
|
17.76 |
|
|
Johan Santana |
13.22 |
|
12.98 |
|
|
5.5 |
Finally, let's look at how Joe has matched up with the best relievers in the game during his eight years with the organization. Even though Nathan missed all of 2010 and was out of the closers role for a substantial portion of 2011, his 260 saves with the Twins ranks as the fourth best mark in all of baseball since 2004.
|
Name |
SV |
G |
|
320 |
530 |
|
|
302 |
562 |
|
|
Francisco Rodriguez |
289 |
540 |
|
Joe Nathan |
260 |
460 |
|
249 |
394 |
Among all pitchers with at least 400 innings pitched since 2004, Nathan's 2.16 ERA with the Twins is the second-lowest mark in baseball:
|
Name |
ERA |
G |
|
Mariano Rivera |
1.89 |
530 |
|
Joe Nathan |
2.16 |
460 |
|
2.33 |
393 |
|
|
Francisco Rodriguez |
2.46 |
540 |
|
Francisco Cordero |
3.01 |
562 |
If you look just at 2004 through 2009 (the timeframe before Nathan underwent Tommy John surgery), Joe had the lowest ERA in baseball (1.87).
Last but not least, any discussion about Nathan's tenure with the Twins would be incomplete without at least mentioning the franchise-altering trade that brought Nathan to Minnesota. Everyone here knows the details, and there's not much I can add that hasn't already been written. Below is an updated accounting of the trade, using the WAR received by each team from the players they acquired in the deal.
|
Twins |
||||
|
Player |
WAR |
Player |
WAR |
|
|
1.3 |
Joe Nathan |
15.1 |
||
|
Francisco Liriano |
14.3 |
|||
|
4.1 |
||||
The Giants non-tendered Pierzynski after his one season with the club in 2004. Nathan and Liriano were still pitching for the Twins - with varying degrees of success - in 2011.
It's been an absolute pleasure to watch Joe Nathan pitch for the Minnesota Twins over the past eight years, and I wish him well in free agency and in sustaining his career in 2012 and beyond (whether it's with the Twins or some other team not named the Yankees, White Sox, or Tigers).
21 comments
|
3 recs |
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Comments
Class Act
Nathan has been very good for quite a long time. He is my all-time favorite Twins’ pitcher and I’ve been watching them since ’61. He has been a class act for the Twins and I hope they keep him at about half of the $12.5 they declined to pay him. I view Nathan and Cuddyer as the glue of the team and I hope both come back to lead a new generation of Twins. It is unfortunate that the big contracts to Mauer and Morneau could squeeze players like Joe and Cuddy off the squad as the team reloads.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Oct 26, 2011 11:51 AM EDT reply actions
Not really
There are cheaper options to be had at closer, and we are talking about a team that spend just under $20 million for Matt Capps and Nathan. I think the Twins would like to spend $8 million on the position including Nathan’s buyout. Other than that, the Twins will be spending about $35 million on the offseason and that includes Michael Cuddyer and Nathan in the budget. The Mauer and Morneau contracts do hurt, but Justin Morneau could announce his retirement any day, and that will save the team some money.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
at about half of the $12.5 they declined to pay him
- ACAS
I think the Twins would like to spend $8 million on the position including Nathan’s buyout.– JS
Hmmm…
12.5/2 = 6.25
6.25 + 2 = 8.25
What exactly did ACAS say that you are disagreeing with?
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Oct 26, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
WPA = bad metric for pitchers
I don’t trust WPA for pitchers because it is so volatile in the late innings, when relievers do pitch and starters don’t. It’s a stat that is designed to quantify “cluchness,” but it is only useful for hitters. A 1-2-3 first inning isn’t seen as clutch even though it is valuable. Also, for pitchers WPA depends greatly on how the offense is performing. When your lineup scores 10 runs, the WPA is stolen from the pitchers. You can throw a 3-hit shutout in a 2-0 win and a 10-0 win and get a much different WPA for your performance. The 2 3-run homers your team hit in the 10-0 win have a big effect on the outcome and will take WPA away from the pitcher. Also, if you are pitching the 9th inning up by 7 runs, you’ll get the same WPA for a scoreless inning as a 9th where you gave up 5 runs but still held on for a 2-run win. It’s just a very flawed stat for pitchers.
I am a big fan of Nathan, but I don’t trust a stat that calls him more valuable than Mauer and Morneau have been or than Santana was. Is he the best reliever that the Twins have ever had? Maybe. Has he done more for the Twins than a former league MVP or multiple Cy Young winner? No.
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Couldn't agree more
That probably wasn’t clear in the way I wrote the article. I, personally, don’t believe Joe Nathan was more valuable than players like Mauer or Santana, just noticed he led the team in WPA during his tenure and wanted to include it in the post.
Over a bunch of seasons, the volatility should wash out
It really isn’t a measure of “clutchiness” – it’s simply a measure of how the probability of winning a game changed because of your plate appearances.
The only real issue with using it for a closer, is that it is comparing those plate appearances against an average pitcher, when almost certainly an above average pitcher would replace you.
Closers maybe misused a lot, but make no mistake, those 70 innings or so are the most important 70 innings that a pitcher will pitch on the team. The real key is trying to figure out how high the second best reliever on the team’s WPA would be, and use the difference to determine value.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Oct 26, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I should note
that by “above average pitcher” I don’t mean above average in terms of value, but simply in ability to get hitters out for the innings you pitch.
Glen Perkins, for the inning he pitches, is basically as good as an ace starter. This is because its a lot easier to pitch well for just one inning.
WPA is comparing Nathan not to the “ace starter” level pitcher (Glen Perkins the reliever) who would probably replace him, but to a mediocre starter level pitcher (Glen Perkins the starter).
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Oct 26, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to keep Nathan (assuming the price is right) for several reasons
1. His leadership and stability in a bullpen that was decimated by our esteemed GM last season
2. Sometimes a pitcher takes a couple years to fully recover from Tommy John
3. Only other closer candidate is Perkins and if we used him there he wouldn’t be available for set up situations
4. Cool “Stand up and Shout” intro at Target Field when he comes out in the 9th inning
5. I don’t know if Gardy’s heart can take another year of 9th inning suspense.
I actually have mixed feelings about the true value of the closer position. Joe Posnanski has an interesting post about this, but then I also was witness to the devastation that a bad closer can wreak on a team (Yes, Mr Capps, I’m speaking of you). I think the whole team has a mental edge when they have confidence that if they go into the 9th with a 1-3 run lead, that their closer will keep that lead for them.
The other teams could make trouble for us if they win. — Yogi Berra
by Twnzfan on Oct 26, 2011 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Also, nice work on this post. Rec'd
The other teams could make trouble for us if they win. — Yogi Berra
Some people talk as if Nathan was the same guy he was 2 years ago.
He’s not and likely never will be – even at the end of last year he really was a shadow of his former self. True it can take some pitchers longer to come back from TJ surgery, but at age 37 it would be a much bigger stretch than a young pitcher trying a comeback. Otherwise if the upside of Nathan is how he pitched at the end of 2011 then we should be able to get that kind of production for MLB minsal. I’d be happy getting him back for a major discount (maybe 10 over 2 yrs) due to his leadership, fan support, etc., but without that kind of discount I think the money would be better spent elsewhere.
We tried minimum salary relievers.
It didn’t work. Nathan may not be as good as he used to be, but he’s still pretty good. I like the offer of 2-3 years, 5-6 mil/year, but I’d be hesitant to go much higher. I think the Twins may need to look outside the organization for at least one more quality reliever to go with Nathan and Perkins. Moving Duensing back to the pen and (hopefully) a rebound year from Mijares would help a lot, too. That leaves only two spots to be filled in house (maybe Oliveros and a long guy).
Uh, Perkins is pretty close to minimum salary
Free agent relievers tend to be the worst deals you can get. To much variance year to year with these guys.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Oct 27, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Perkins was the exception, rather than the rule
If we depend on 1-2 min sal guys in the bullpen, we’re ok, especially if any turn out to be like Perkins. The problem is when we have 4-5 min sal guys in the bullpen, and only 1 pitches well.
I didn’t say necessarily FA, but it never hurts to look. I just don’t think we have enough major league ready pitching, so signing a solid reliever or two to a 2-3 mil contract/yr couldn’t hurt. I guess I should have clarified that I would NOT want to overpay for a reliever. I just don’t like the in-house options.
Perkins was not the exception
List of Twins’ elite relievers the last decade or so:
Matt Guerrier
Jesse Crain
Glen Perkins
Joe Nathan
LaTroy Hawkins
Eddie Guardado
You know how many of those guys were free agent acquisitions? Zero. They weren’t all completely homegrown, but they all got their jobs with the Twins as minimum-salary or arbitration guys, and the ones who signed decent-size contract extensions with the Twins were signed after they’d established themselves on the cheap.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
I meant the last few years.
I wasn’t saying it can’t happen or that it doesn’t. Actually, I noticed that all but Crain are converted starters. Is that a general trend?
I also was unclear about the fact that a pitcher with a good track record in the minors CAN pitch well for min sal. I just don’t think we have the right guys to make it happen yet.
The question isn't whether Nathan will be as good as he used to be
but will he be better than anyone else the Twins could afford at this stage. If some other club wants to overpay him, then so be it, but the Twins are not at a stage where it would make any sense to buy an elite closer (They are pretty rare anyway, look at K-Rod, Papelbon, Lidge, etc. Nathan’s been more reliable than any of them. Mariano is one of a kind. We may never see his equal.). In fact, Nathan may not want to stay, especially if he is offered a deal with a real contender.
All I know for sure is, I didn’t realize until last season how painful it is to watch game after game blown by the bullpen.
The other teams could make trouble for us if they win. — Yogi Berra
I was upset when the giants traded him, and I will never get over it.
I watched him pitch and saw talent waiting to explode. I think some of the giants brass
also thought so. Obviously the Twins new what they were getting. He was just starting
to really get it back together after surgery. It took him some time but he did it. We have
traded the twins some of their stars over the years. ie; Dan Gladden.
I don't think the Twins fully knew what they were getting.
There was really no way of knowing the trade would end up being this lop-sided. The Twins likely felt that Nathan was a very good reliever who could handle the closer role. I doubt they truly expected him to be an elite MLB closer for 5+ years. I also doubt the Twins expected to get so much from Liriano and even Bonser. I don’t think Terry Ryan was thinking he was going to rob the Giants blind. For the Twins, the trade was more about moving A.J. Pierzynski to make room for Mauer and getting something of value in return. They just ended up hitting the jackpot in the end.
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A friend of mine who is a Giants fan
Said the same thing after the trade. Y’all got yer title, though!
Steve Goodman lives.
by twinsbrewer on Oct 27, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
So I guess what that means for Twins fans is that bad trades can be overcome.
Hardy, Ramos, etc.
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