Can we please fire Bill Smith?!

by SpanFan on Oct 31, 2011 1:06 PM EDT

This guy has done zero to make the team better since he has taken over; well a reach on a couple washed up players that performed better than expected I guess. Other than that the Twins have been on the bad side of every move he has made. Start with his 1st big move, the Johan trade, the argument at the time was based on the lack of market for him, which was BS! He was one of the top starters in BB and a lefty to boot when we traded him, so other teams like Cleveland that traded top starters are stocked with talent from it, but we have Jim Hoey as a barely usable player for a true ACE. Then he trades Bartlet and Garza for a talented player that no one had any patience for, who was then traded for nothing, this amazingly happens when he was about our only RH hitter and he immediately proves the faultiness of the trade by nearly carrying Detroit to the world series. He also traded our top two minor league catchers, one being a top prospect for once again nothing in return worth having, all in order to keep Drew I can't hit Butera and Joe "I can’t stay healthy at Catcher" Mauer. The signing of Ishi was garbage but we'll waste a bunch of playing time next year but freak out when a player with major hitting upside (plouffe) makes mistakes in the field. Our starting rotation is embarrassing, our bullpen is embarrassing and our lineup full of lefties is borderline embarrassing, all this with the Twins being a top 5 team in revenue and a payroll over 100 mil, it is time to fire Smith before we get any worse!!!

Poll

Should the Twins fire Bill Smith?

Yes, immediately.

111 votes

No, give him another year.

24 votes

No, I'm a dummy and think he's doing a good job.

16 votes

151 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 28 comments | 0 recs |

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Comments

I vote myself a dummy

because, well, how often do you have that opportunity?! This has all been hashed out many, many times before.

by archie2227 on Oct 31, 2011 2:24 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

I also voted myself a dummy...

But that’s because well, I sort of am ;) (not that I think he’s doing a great job…)

"I don't really give a f*** and my excuse is that I'm young, and I'm only getting older somebody shoulda told ya" ~Drake (I'm On One)

by twinsgirl197 on Oct 31, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Another offseason of "FIRE SMIT" and "FIRE GARY"

Can’t wait.

WordUpThome: BOOM, HAND HUGGED
Tweet me! @jessicann713

by fischean on Nov 1, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions

BILL SMITH ATE MY DOG!

I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.

by montanatwinsfan on Nov 1, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions

AND MY DOG ATE MY HOMEWORK!

THEREFORE BILL SMITH ATE MY HOMEWORK!!!

"I don't really give a f*** and my excuse is that I'm young, and I'm only getting older somebody shoulda told ya" ~Drake (I'm On One)

by twinsgirl197 on Nov 1, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs

Hahahah...rec'd

by Jesse on Nov 2, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions

I tried to use this in science.

It amused my teacher so he gave me an extension. Oh yeah!!!

"I don't really give a f*** and my excuse is that I'm young, and I'm only getting older somebody shoulda told ya" ~Drake (I'm On One)

by twinsgirl197 on Nov 2, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions

FIRE BILLY is the new FIRE GARY

WFTDA Championship Tournament: Minnesota RollerGirls vs Charm City Roller Girls - Friday 11/11 at 3:00 pm central. Broadcast online at derbyaccess.com

by Flip27 on Oct 31, 2011 2:47 PM EDT reply actions

Fire Bily!

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Oct 31, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions

I prefer FIRE SMITTY

JIM JAMS BUSINESS IS MASHING TATERS, AND BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!

by MashinTaters on Oct 31, 2011 7:47 PM EDT reply actions

i voted give him another year

not sure if i mean another calender year, but another season long yr.

I like the Maloney pick-up don’t care for Jeff Gray, but at this point with the #2 waiver claim they should use it on someone…

Plus this off-season is just starting and we’ll see how it goes, theres a deep FA pool of names guys like Paul Maholm, Mark Buerhle, Hiroki Kuroda, Yu Darvish, Eric Bedard, Iwamura, Wada, and David ORTIZ to name a few…

I have confidence the front office can get a SP, a reliever or 2 and a quality bat…..to help replace whoever is not re-tained between Cuddyer and Kubel (likey: 1 shall be back, 1 shall be gone)

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Nov 1, 2011 11:57 AM EDT reply actions

I voted yes

He’s run the team into the ground, made too many awful trades (in addition to the good ones), and shoulders plenty of responsibility for the awful way things are run (i.e. his stubborn refusal to address glaring issues, like saying there won’t be a new training staff after a season full of injuries). The fact that he’s a long-time member of the Twins line of thinking alone earns him a ticket out of town, in my opinion. As has been said before, this team really needs new approaches and people from the outside if they want to change course.

I’m not going to say anyone who wants him to stay is stupid, but seeing as commenters above are likening this to the Gardy scapegoating, I think he’s far more to blame for certain failures than Gardy. When we lost again in the playoffs and many commenters went full-blown Strib with “FIRE GARY” and such, it was silly because they were putting a plethora of organizational issues on one person. Admittedly, not everything can be blamed on Smith either, but he has for more influence on how the team is run and put together, and his moves last offseason set the stage for a disastrous season. That anyone can dismiss this seems a little ridiculous to me.

With all that said, he’s backed himself into such a corner that he’ll have to come through this offseason, and strangely enough I think he can do it. He’s already made the right choice by declining Nathan’s option, which will free up plenty of money for rebuilding. Get a starting pitcher or two, a couple good relievers, and a solid catcher and shortstop, and it’ll be a successful offseason. It’s a true-blue rebuilding period anyway, so it may be a season or two before we’re in a position to contend for a WS again.

When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.

by MarshalltheIrish on Nov 1, 2011 11:38 PM EDT reply actions

I understand the venom toward him

but I also think it’s a bit unfair to say he ran a team “into the ground” considering he took over a sub .500 team (losing Santana, Hunter and Silva) and watched that team play 163 games two years in a row and then have one of the best Twins teams in 20 years. The injuries, while a boring excuse, really are the main reason the Twins had a horrible season.

Yes, some of the trades didn’t work out but he did get two top 50 BA prospects + the Mets two best SP prospects for Santana. He has made a number of successful small moves – Thome, Pavano, Rauch etc. And made a number of good contract extensions, too. Unlike Ryan, who was constantly criticized for this, Smith has been willing to make ‘win now’ moves. The Capps/Ramos trade was supported by guys like Jim Callis and John Sickels at the time it was made. He moved us away from that crappy piranha crap (although it looks like Gardy wants us to go back to that) and gave us some genuinely good offenses. He’s made the Twins more aggressive in international signings and promoted Deron Johnson to draft guru, who has attempted to add more power arms to the Twins system (although we’ll see if it works). He gets too much blame for areas outside of his expertise – he isn’t a scout and it was our scouting department that focused on Delmon Young over Carlos Quentin, for instance.

I don’t want to be a Smith apologist – I think he made a huge mistake in not trading Cuddy and others at the deadline, I don’t like that he doesn’t seem to be too concerned about the quality of our training staff and I don’t think he and Gardy are a good match together. But I do think he deserves another year to work on this team.

by Gunnarthor on Nov 2, 2011 10:48 AM EDT reply actions

Another year...

Well in another year he will have tied the rest of the money up on washed up vets, but then think it’s a great idea to trade a very feasible leadoff hitter and solid fielder in Span for more crap. Span is a good club house guy and person, so how is it ok to trade him in his prime but under no circumstances can we trade or let guys like cuddy go?! I do agree Gardy gets to me as well by insisting on more and more of the exact same thing, I like that we have an identity that is supposed to be based on the fundamentals but how easy is it to game plan for us when every player is the exact same. So I think part of the problem is Gardy’s stubbornness and total inability to adapt and develop as a coach but Smith has drained our farm system after reaping the rewards of Tom Ryan’s genius work, Tom Ryan kept the Twins competitive with about half the payroll of Smith and left him with the cupboards full, well the cupboards are nearly bare and apparently it will be status quo until there is nothing left but Mauer’s albatross of a contract. (I will say that is the one signing I’ll give a mulligan on, he had to do it). But saying it isn’t his fault cuz the Twins have not scouted well is asinine, it is his job to hire those guys and take their input and he signs off on the moves obviously! Something has to change before we become the Cubs, a big budget team with no prospects and a few over-inflated salary, injury prone, vets…

by SpanFan on Nov 2, 2011 11:42 AM EDT reply actions

It's Terry Ryan, not Tom

Unless you know him really well. :-)

Since 08, we’ve drafted position players like Hicks, Rosario, Levi, Harrison, brought in pitchers like Gutierez, Gibson, Wimmers, Boer, Boyd and signed international guys like Sano, Arcia, Salcedo and Keppler. It’s a bit unfair to say that Smith has let the cupboard go bare. Maybe none of these guys become good pros but it’s too early to determine how they’ll do. The 06 class – Benson and Parmelee – just showed up.

What longterm contracts are you upset about, since you agree that Mauer had to be done? He locked Morneau up between his age 27-32 seasons or should Ryan traded him in 07? Cuddy kept for his 29-32 seasons? Kubel’s 3 yrs covering his age 27-29 years? Baker from 27-31 (with free option year)? Span at age 26-30? None of these contracts seems to be a huge risk, all were done at market value or below. Sure, it’d be great if Morneau didn’t have the concussion crap but he wasn’t going to stay here without a contract. The team’s longterm contract situation isn’t that bad, here’s a link:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tIn6UNnQQrmryUesyK0wSwg&output=html

Smith also didn’t trade Span. Although considering Morneau’s concussion problems, we might wish he had (I hope not).

by Gunnarthor on Nov 2, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions

haha

Yeah my bad, I was in a small waiting room in a hospital for a few hours where he was once tho. But I didn’t say anything he was there cuz his wife was in for something pretty serious so I thought it would be in bad taste to approach him. It was pretty funny tho cuz he was talking to a lady in there but she had no idea who he was, he’s like yeah I just got back from a business trip to Rochester New York, needless to say I eavesdropped and was in awe the whole time.

All the guys you reffered to were holdovers from Ryan’s days, yes Smith signed them to some fair deals, he did also sign Punto to 8mil over 2yrs and has totally screwed the middle infield ever since he’s taken over. And a lot of those guys you mentioned from his drafts all fit the same old twins blueprint which is why we are overstocked at every level with mostly no power hitters and lefties, the pitchers are all contact pitchers w no power.

by SpanFan on Nov 3, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions

How is Ryan a genius and Smith a failure

for drafting the same types of players? I’m not impressed with what Smith has done as GM, but Ryan did not leave the organization in great shape.

by Stefa on Nov 3, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Yes he did!

Are you trying to say a core of Mauer, Morneau, Cuddy, Kubel, Span, Liriano, Johan, Nathan, plus a solid group of young pitchers was not great shape?! that’s why i’m so mad we have the core but nothing has truly been done around them to take them over the hump, plus we traded some of our best and closest to MLB prospects and got nothing in return, and there may be some potential in the minors that will take some time to develop like Ryan’s guys but this team is getting by on nothing but his players. Plus ryan did it with a budget that was a joke, Smith has money to scout and sign foreigners, Ryan making the Twins good would be like Pittsburgh getting good without any changes to their budget. I cannot believe you don’t think when Ryan stepped down he did’t hand it off in GREAT shape, yah some things needed to be down but the core here was as good as any team in the league when he left, with the added budget I and hope that Smith would add the players to take it over the top, but no our guys that were core players have gotten worse and nobody new has showed up that is worth having.

by SpanFan on Nov 3, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions

Span is the only impact player who has come up since Ryan left.

There wasn’t a lot of talent on the farm when he left. It’s hard to build a championship team on a budget without a lot of good, young players. The Twins just don’t have those. Without cheap, young talent the team is going to go through periods when the payroll is higher than the quality of the results.

And to clarify, I’m not saying Ryan did a poor job. My point is that you can’t credit Ryan with building a core of M&M, Cuddy, Kubel, Nathan and then turn around and criticize Smith for having to pay them.

by Stefa on Nov 3, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Ryan

Would have made a choice and traded some of these guys for the next wave of talent.
Bill Smith dithers and seems to be unable to make a choice.

by clutterheart on Nov 3, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Only Mauer would have had significant trade value.

Since the others were being paid close to what they were worth.

Look, I don’t think Smith is doing a good job. I do believe there are other baseball people who would have performed better. I also think that many of the current problems with the Twins franchise are outside of the GM’s control.

Smith inherited a situation where his team had a lot of stars heading into their higher-earning years and not a lot of cheap talent on the farm. While I’m not impressed with his overall performance (he traded away a starting shortstop twice in three years) I think it’s unfair to assume that most GMs could have maintained a winning franchise under these circumstances.

by Stefa on Nov 3, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not criticizing him for signing the core guys

I’m saying he hasn’t put anything around them, even with the opportunity to trade away an ace and land atleast one good young player in return. All the young players that are doing anything for the Twins came from Ryan, which is to be expected as he was in charge for quite a while and Smith has only had a few years to stock the minors but to this date he hasn’t provided on impact or servicable player that wasn’t a washed up vet and I think he’s had plenty of opportunities to do so, he’s traded starters and prospects and never made due on any of those moves.

by SpanFan on Nov 3, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with most of this.

Smith has brought in some impact players, Pavano being the best example.

Most of the young players that haven’t impressed also came from Ryan. I don’t think the drafts under Smith have been any worse than the last few under Ryan.

FWIW, I wish they would fire Smith (or someone else). I want them to do something to shake up the FO and bring in someone from outside the organization. I’m not defending Smith as much as making allowances for the fact that he is in a difficult situation: He leads a team that has been very successful but may be moving into a phase where they will have some disappointing years.

by Stefa on Nov 3, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Actually

I think the Twins have slightly changed their draft philosophy since Johnson took over. We still want control guys and that has been a successful model but Johnson seems willing to take more chances on hard throwers – Hunt, Boyd and Bullock pop immediately to mind. The Twins do tend to draft high school position players and college pitchers but that isn’t absolute nor is it a bad drafting philosophy.

In any event, Smith hasn’t hamstrung our payroll by signing over the hill vets and it’s way too early to say he and Johnson’s drafts have been failures.

by Gunnarthor on Nov 3, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions