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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

State of Play: Monday, November 14

Unless Bill Smith gets fired again today, and I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with that option, this Monday isn't likely to be as exciting as last Monday. Nevertheless, let's take a look at the current Twins stories floating around, along with some extremely grumpy comments:

* Terry Ryan says that Trevor Plouffe will play in the outfield from now on. I like this move, as it'll allow Plouffe to only be a worthless hitter, rather than a worthless hitter AND a terrible fielder. I suppose it's worth noting that it wasn't too long ago that the Twins gave up on Michael Cuddyer as an infielder and moved him to the outfield, and that worked out okay on average, but it's also worth remembering that Cuddyer had hit successfully in the minor leagues and with some success in the major leagues before making the switch. Apart from about two weeks at Triple-A last year, Plouffe can't say either of those things.

* The team's giving Tsuyoshi Nishioka a free pass on being terrible last year. I think they're hoping to rewind this situation, like an old videotape. And then they're hoping that they can keep rewinding, and the old tape will show Nishioka erasing his signature on the contract, going back to Japan, and letting all that money jump right back into the Twins' pockets.

* Jamey Carroll is on his way. Jamey Carroll played a game for the Montreal Expos after he turned 30. Jamey Carroll is an old, old man. Here is also where I point out that Carroll might have less power than Nick Punto, is the same height and twenty pounds lighter, and is also three and a half years older and much worse on defense. I'm just saying that if the Twins had signed Punto for two years and $7 million, someone would have tried to bomb Target Field, and so maybe we shouldn't get so excited about putting Methuselah at shortstop quite yet.

* The Twins may be interested in a couple of Japanese starting pitchers. Via Aaron Gleeman, Nippon Sports says that the Twins have expressed interest in Tsuyoshi Wada and Hisashi Iwakuma. As a Twins fan, I would ask that the Twins instead give me one-tenth of whatever they're planning on spending either pitcher. That way I get rich and the Twins don't get stuck with another Japanese player that seems surprised somehow that American baseball isn't quite as easy as it is in Japan.

* Terry Ryan is re-evaluating the Twins' medical staff. Somewhere, Rick McWane is trying to figure out where he can dump a year's supply of leeches, an iron lung, and four medical dictionaries that are hollowed out so that bottles of scotch fit between the covers. McWane's plans for this week include hanging around the training room and waiting for people to walk by so that he can try to work questions like, "Say, do you know how that machine over there works?" into casual conversation.

Tracking This Week

  1. Will Michael Cuddyer and the Phillies finally get together? They've been making googly eyes at each other for like a week now, and the Twins seem to be planning ahead to replace Cuddyer with Plouffe.
  2. Will the Twins sign a backup catcher,  backup corner infielder, left fielder, right fielder, starting pitcher, or anybody to pitch out of the bullpen? (You know, when we write it out like that, it's kind of depressing.)
  3. Will Ron Gardenhire make Jamey Caroll wear Nick Punto's old number and answer to "Nicky"?

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Carroll

Is Carroll really MUCH worse than Punto defensively? Obviously Punto has the edge, but not by a ton. Offensively, the edge goes to Carroll…I don’t really care how many more home runs Punto has hit than Carroll…neither one of them is/should be expected to hit home runs.

Gardenhire can legitimately hit Carroll second in the order, and nobody can get too upset about it—Punto, not so much.

by bbeeck on Nov 14, 2011 9:40 AM EST reply actions  

I agree with this

If Carroll can keep up with his career numbers, he’d be a great guy to hit in front of Mauer and Morneau (fingers crossed).

by spanspanspan on Nov 14, 2011 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Carroll is much better offensively than Punto...

…Carroll consistantly hits around .290 with a .350 or so OBP. Punto has hit that well, but also has half his years at .225

by roger13 on Nov 14, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, he is

According to UZR, at least. Here are their UZR/150 at various positions:

SS (where the Twins said they’re putting Carroll)
Punto: 18.1
Carroll: -2

3B
Punto: 19
Carroll: 0

2B
Punto: 6.9
Carroll: 5.3

I"d note that Carroll’s sample sizes are not terribly large anywhere than third base, so take those numbers with as large grains of salt as necessary.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Nov 14, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

that much salt

will ruin my blood pressure and put me in the hospital. I think Carroll will be a good addition, and I like his potential as a 2 hole hitter. As for the sabermetrics…. I’ll stick with the ultimate test, “can he do the job?” I have liked Carroll for the last few years, and on a 2 year deal in the current economy, it’s not a back breaker. I like his offensive consistency, and I have cautious optimism for this move.

"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)

by carlpavanosmoustache on Nov 14, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Why are we comparing him to Punto?

Punto is no longer on the team so it’s a meaningless comparison. Let’s see how his defense stacks up against Nishi and Plouffe, the men he is replacing.

The beard abides.

by Jason Kubel's Beard on Nov 14, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Because we all know Nick Punto

If I was trying to explain to you what something tasted like, it would be much easier for me to do so if I compared it to a food you’d already eaten. Also, Carroll’s a short guy who hits for no power and walks a lot – comparing his game to Nick Punto’s (and they’re not as much the same player as they would initially seem) is something that makes sense.

Also, since when can’t we compare players on different teams? Isn’t comparing players on your team to players on other teams the most basic part of building a roster? Yeah, the more meaningful comparison is between him and Nishi/Casilla/Plouffe, but it’s still good to know how Carroll’s defense stacks up against other options.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Nov 14, 2011 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

They both taste like chicken.

Culinary issues aside, Carroll has a significantly better and more consistent OBP. If he’s going to be slotted behind Span and ahead of Mauer, that’s important.

The Twins could still get Punto back as a utility infielder and continue to run the Casilla experiment (I have a higher opinion of him than many around here, it seems).

And there’s always Rollins or Reyes… (joke).

by spanspanspan on Nov 14, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

MMMMMM, Chicken

The only stat that counts is W

by wayback on Nov 14, 2011 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

In a sense he's "replacing" LNP

Not that anyone could actually “replace” LNP.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 14, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Shut the f**k up Donnie

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 14, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

MLB Trade Rumors says Phills not as hot on Cuddy as everyone says

asking price is too high…I’d post the link but I’m too lazy.

On Carroll – doesn’t strike out a lot, hits for descent average, good OBP, middle infielder. Looks like an ideal #2 man in Gardy’s order!

The beard abides.

by Jason Kubel's Beard on Nov 14, 2011 9:54 AM EST reply actions  

I wonder if that's tied in to the fact that they just overpaid for Papelbon?

If no one wants to pay for Cuddy, I’m happy to have the Twins keep him.

by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 14, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

And teams foolish enough to pay for a personality!

I bet the Phillies really wanted him because they need someone to stock the beer fridge.

(Papelbon has been on a downswing the past two seasons… the Phillies are going to regret taking him.)

by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 14, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Remember that time that a team paid big money for a free agent closer and didn't regret it?

I certainly don’t.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Nov 14, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

The soonest only thing I can think of

Is the Twins signing Joe Nathan to a big deal. I don’t think the Twins regretted that deal. Of course there is the Yankees paying big for Rivera.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

by Jessy S on Nov 14, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Kind of a different thing

I was thinking of teams acquiring a free agent, not re-signing or extending their own guy.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Nov 14, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

There is still a risk in keeping your own closer.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

by Jessy S on Nov 14, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Can we fire Bill Smith every Monday?

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Nov 14, 2011 10:08 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

No

Today might be Gardy’s turn.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

by Jessy S on Nov 14, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Jessy S. Withers in pain

after being knocked out by Terry Ryan.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

by Jessy S on Nov 14, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd wither just from that threat from Terry Ryan

Look at that man, no wonder the Twins were good under his reign. Nobody dares be bad.

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Nov 14, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Your last name is Withers?

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 14, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Isn't it great having a decision maker in the GM slot?

…expect the Plouffe discussion went like this. 1st) Ryan talked to Gardy about his thoughts on Plouffe, especially, defensively; 2nd) next he call Plouffe, talked about their concerns with his defense, then told him he would be a right fielder only in spring training. No uncertainty, done deal!

by roger13 on Nov 14, 2011 10:25 AM EST reply actions  

You forgot a step...

Where Ryan told Gardy we can’t afford to resign Cuddyer and can’t afford a FA to take his place because we have so many holes elsewhere, so how about Plouffe?

by spanspanspan on Nov 14, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Step #4: ????

Step #5: Profit!

FREE AIRWOLF!

ROHLFING!!!!!

by d-mac on Nov 14, 2011 7:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Oh yeah, he's bold.

"It sounds as if I think our thoughts are he’s probably going to be best suited to the outfield and DH."

by timprov on Nov 14, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Plouffe will likely be 4th outfielder/DH

For those of you that think Cuddy and Jason Kubel are done on this team, that isn’t the case. Even Terry Ryan said that he wants Cuddy back.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

by Jessy S on Nov 14, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

For once, I hope you're right.

Except about the 4 man outfield, leaves us too vulnerable to infield hits.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 14, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

Also, I love the candor. Smith never said ANYTHING. He acted like the decisions were coming from another quarter and he barely knew what to say about them.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 14, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Also, Smith seemed more apt to defer to field staff

I never recall him saying he was moving a player to the outfield, for example. Frankly, I think that’s part of the problem we’ve had in the Smith era. There was no one to check Gardy when he did stupid things with the talent the GM sent him. Gardy never respected Smith and he made that blatantly clear with all the comments about batting practice balls.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 14, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

I've seen this "Batting Practice Balls" thing brought up a few times

I’ve never seen/heard about it. Anyone want to find the quote or give a summary of what this was about?

"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."

by John_Locke on Nov 14, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

When Smith was first hired....

….Gardy said his only contact with Bill Smith prior to the hiring was when Smith got on his case for using batting practice balls that were too nice. I.e., Gardy was wasting precious resources on BP.

He went on to basically say he didn’t think Smith was a baseball man, “but we’ll see….”

It was not a vote of confidence from his manager.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 14, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm... weird anecdotal story

I was at an Oakland vs. Twins game and hanging out before batting practice. These little kids standing near me asked one of the Coliseum staff on the field to get them a baseball. He said, “If it was Oakland batting, I could do it, but this team doesn’t want me collecting their baseballs.”

At the time, I figured he’d say that about any visiting team, but now you have me curious.

by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 14, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I had a seat in front of the press box at the Done once

My four-year-old son, who was the apple of everybody’s eye at the time, was given a baseball by the Twins’ front office staff. It looked like it had been chewed up by a giant gorilla dog thing that had eaten one kid already. I assume it was a ball that was no longer good enough for BP.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 14, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

BP balls too nice????

Come on, It is Major League Baseball that supplies the balls for BP and the game. Plus, the balls are scuffed in dirt prior to use.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

by Jessy S on Nov 14, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Honestly, the best news here

Might be the medical staff. Way too many preventable injuries last year, and way too long to recover from them.

by amiller92 on Nov 14, 2011 10:54 AM EST reply actions  

I'm honestly curious about all that

I had to go through physical therapy for an injury several years ago, and I currently go to the gym about 4 times per week. I’m fully aware of how something like an oblique or hamstring strain can come down to how you warm up, stretch, or balance your workout routines.

by spanspanspan on Nov 14, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Regarding Cuddy

It looks like no one is ready to pay him what his agent is asking for. He may be in for less, far less. The Twins are making noises that they’ll essentially move Plouffe into Cuddyer’s role, perhaps trying to get his price down and readying to make a two year $20 million offer. If the Phillies re-sign Rollins, I think they’ll pass on Cuddy, settling for their own in-house guys to man 1st while Howard is out and the third OF slot (left field?).

There are still a lot of teams interested—Colorado, SF, Baltimore, Boston—but I think Cuddyer will be fortunate to get an offer in the 3yr-$30M range.

by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 14, 2011 12:58 PM EST reply actions  

Is Free Agency over already?

It seems a little early to reach the conclusion you made in your first sentence.

by That'sWhatSheSaid on Nov 14, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Free Agency is over

At least from the standpoint of Cuddyer signing with Philadelphia. The truth is that the Phillies can’t afford Cuddyer even if they want him. They might lose Jimmy Rollins too. The reason for that is because they have too much money invested in Ryan Howard, Roy Halliday, and Cliff Lee. That means that they will have to deal Cole Hamels. When that happens, they can take Trevor Plouffe and maybe two other prospects not named Sano and or Hendriks. What I would send to Phillie in that case, is Plouffe, Francisco Liriano, and Kevin Slowey.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

by Jessy S on Nov 14, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, Hamels has an expensive arb coming up as well.

We can trade for him and sign him to a three year contract worth $14.5 million per year and that is with an option for a fourth year. Translation, this will be our big splurge and might put us over the $120 million mark, but it will be worth it.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

by Jessy S on Nov 14, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Here we go again with making up things

If Glenn Beck ever wants to get into baseball, you should try to be his advisor.

by twinscrazy_german on Nov 14, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Disregard this entire comment

I thought I was replying to a different comment in a different thread on a different website on a dirfferent planet.

My apologies.

by That'sWhatSheSaid on Nov 14, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

In a way, you were.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 14, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

So I guess we won't get into the playoffs in 2011.

The season’s really over now. Target Field being covered. It’s a tarp!

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 14, 2011 1:28 PM EST reply actions  

No

It is just a white tarp that protects the field from the harsh Minnesota Winters.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

by Jessy S on Nov 14, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Philadelphia Payroll...

Think about this if you are a Phillies fan…

Oswalt ($16M), Ibanez ($11.5M), Lidge ($11.5M), Madson ($4.5M), Rollins ($8.5M) = $52 Million coming off the books this year… (that’s good)

They have $3.5M in buyouts, bring in Papelbon for $12.5M, will have 2 high $$$ arb cases in Hamels (est. $14M) and Pence ($11.5M) = $41.5 Million adding on to a current payroll of $111.7M to bring it up to $150.2M. This is $8.5M less than their payroll was in 2011. (that’s bad)

Now, you add on to this that Philadelphia has 10 smaller Pre-Arb and Arb eligible players on it’s payroll that will basically eat up that $8.5 surplus. (that’s worse)

Now what do you do if you don’t want to increase payroll beyond the Luxury Tax number of $180 (ish) Million? $20M to spend… with 5 unpaid roster spots. Can they really afford to bring back Jimmy Rollins and bring in Cuddyer… AND fill out the other 3 roster spots with MLB ready players?

by PtP_Guru on Nov 14, 2011 1:50 PM EST reply actions  

Math was a bit off on some of this...

but the 5 roster spots and $20M was about right…

by PtP_Guru on Nov 14, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

THey can sign Cuddyer and we can sign Rollins.

JK

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 14, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I can picture Rollins signing with Boston.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

by Jessy S on Nov 14, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I liked him with Black Flag

It would be cool hearing him sing “More Than a Feeling” I don’t think it will happen though.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 14, 2011 5:45 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Jamey Carroll

Jamey Carroll also has the highest OBP of any Los Angelos Dodger with over 800 plate appearances in the history of the franchise

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Nov 14, 2011 6:44 PM EST reply actions  

What are you insinuating?

… That players from Brooklyn have high OBP’s?

FREE AIRWOLF!

ROHLFING!!!!!

by d-mac on Nov 14, 2011 7:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

not sure if that's good for Carroll or bad for the Dodgers

as good as his OBP was, I’m surprised no one has ever surpassed it for the Dodgers.

"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"The more toppings a man has on his pizza, I believe the more manly he is." - Herman Cain

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 14, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Jamey Carroll

does not have the highest OBP of any Los Angeles Dodger with over 800 PAs in the history of the franchise.

30 seconds on BR was all it took to find Gary Sheffield at .424 in over 2200 PAs.

by USAFChief on Nov 14, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Carroll is a much better/more consistent hitter than Punto

Plus, his numbers appear to be holding up reasonably despite his age.

Will certainly be an upgrade over Plouffe/Nishioka.

"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." ~George F. Will

by SooFoo Fan on Nov 14, 2011 8:26 PM EST reply actions  

Fire Smitty!!!

Oh it sounds so good everytime

JIM JAMS BUSINESS IS MASHING TATERS, AND BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!

by MashinTaters on Nov 15, 2011 11:29 PM EST reply actions  

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