Saturday Morning Breakfast & Baseball: Twins Outfield, 40-Man Roster, Blueprint
Be sure to drop below this post to check out Roger's weekly Minor League Report. He recaps some of the shuffling that's went down throughout the Twins' farm system over the last seven days, and then gives you his review of the Beloit Snappers in 2011. And now for some late morning updates to go along with that confusion of exactly where you were and what you did last night.
- Suitors for Micheal Cuddyer, outside of the Twins, don't seem to be exploding like we thought they would at one point earlier in the fall. We know that the Red Sox, Phillies, and Rockies all have varying levels of interest, but seem to view Cuddyer either as a backup plan or as an option whose asking price is too high. He could be on the wish list for the Orioles, too, but we haven't heard anything from the Braves or Giants recently.
- Jason Kubel has has a few interested parties too, including the Phillies and Indians. Kubel was tied to the Phillies along with Grady Sizemore recently, and we posted about Cleveland's interest earlier this week (they've been interested in Kubel for a while). The Pirates were looking at Kubel last summer, as a "professional hitter", but they haven't come up in any rumors this off-season.
- Neither Denard Span nor Ben Revere will be traded this winter. That's direct from the horse's (see: General Manager's) mouth. This is good news on both fronts. With Cuddyer and Kubel seemingly more likely to depart than stay, trying to find one MLB starting outfielder will be easier than two. Revere's upside is still in question to about half of Twins Territory (the other half are faily optimistic even when taking into account Revere's drawbacks), but he's a known quantity: great range, a good base stealer, a good contact hitter. He's easy to pencil in as the number nine hitter while playing left field. Besides, the Twins have enough holes to fill this winter without spending the necessary dollars to bring in two quality corner outfield free agents.
- The Twins had a number of minor leaguers they needed to add to the 40-man roster in order to protect them from the Rule V draft next month, but in the end they only added three: outfielder Oswaldo Arcia (.291/.335/.531 in 2011), right hander Carlos Gutierrez (4.62 ERA, 43 G, 8.2 K/9, 4.5 BB/9), and lefty Tyler Robertson (3.61 ERA, 55 G, 8.8 K/9, 2.9 BB/9).
- Arica and Gutierrez aren't big surprises, but Robertson will shock a few. He's a southpaw, and hopefully the Twins test him at triple-A this season. This was his first year as a reliever, however, so it remains to be seen how the organization chooses to develop him.
- Righty David Bromberg was outrighted to triple-A. He broke his forearm this season, a total fluke, and I know this move surprised Seth. But the 40-man roster is just that: 40 men. There are a lot of players who are good enough to be on the list, but the question isn't: are you good enough? The question is: which players are most likely to be taken? Bromberg, who reached triple-A in 2010, didn't pitch there in 2011 and will be seen by many teams as a player coming off of an arm injury who took a step backwards in '11. And who is now 24. I believe that Bromberg can be a good relief pitcher for the Twins at some point, but when you're looking at players who are the least likely to be taken, Bromberg will be on that list. Think of it from another team's point of view: would Bromberg be a good bet to stick with your 25-man roster all season? Probably not. That's the reason why Angel Morales wasn't added to the 40-man: he'd be unlikely to hold down that roster spot.
- Finally, a big welcome to Ryan Doumit! A lot of people had Jamey Carroll and Ryan Doumit in their off-season blueprints this year, so I won't pretend like I was some kind of evil genius for endorsing them both. If we look at my blueprint, this means the Twins have now signed two of the nine targets I picked out for them. At what point do I receive a cash prize for accuracy?
That's all for now everybody. Now get outside before it gets dark.
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Bromberg
Although I was a little surprised and disappointed by the decision to take Bromberg off of the 40 man roster, the fact that he went unclaimed means that it was the right decision by the organization. Since it is his first outright, he can’t become a free agent and will stay in the organization. It’d not likely he would be drafted in the Rule 5, otherwise some team would have claimed him.
Exactly.
Particularly because claiming him wouldn’t have come with the same stipulation as the Rule V selection.
I still think he’ll get a crack at the Twins this season at some juncture.
agree...
I think we tend to forget, but for all the talk about lack of talent at the upper levels of the Twins, we do have a lot of potentially very good relievers close to ready. Which should save a lot of money in the next few years. You have still cheap guys on the major league roster that are good solid relievers (Perkins/Duensing/Swarzak/Mijares) and then you have a host of other guys that should be ready quite soon:
Waldrop (I mention him because I still think he should get a shot)
Slama (ditto)
Gutierrez-still think he’s an impact guy longterm in relief, possibly as our next CL
Burnett—rough so far, but still young
Guerra-sure showed something this year in relief
Bromberg—failed starter route
Robertson-lefty
Oliveros-upside lefty
Hard to believe we can’t find 4 good longterm arms out of that crew over the next couple of years. So that could be a very cheap, effective bullpen very soon.
I don't think Bromberg is a failed starter
Waldrop & Robertson are but I think Bromberg is going to start the season at AAA in the rotation and turn some heads this year.
Last year he pitched well but got hurt early.
With Gibson out next year after Hendricks, he seems like the next in line to be a starter for the MLB team.
by clutterheart on Nov 19, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
could be...
and I hope you’re right. I could see Wimmers passing Bromberg this year too, but we’ll see.
Longterm I think he’s a very good reliever, but I hope you’re right that he can return to starting form and succeed at the highest levels.
No way Wimmers gets all the way to AAA
and if he does, it will be late in the Season. Don’t forget Diamond as a starter with Hendricks. We’ll see which one pitches better or which one the Twins favor to be the first up from AAA. I’ve said that Bromberg should be moved to closer. He’s a Big guy that gets lots of K’s. He’s one of the guys I though should have got a chance last year to make the Twins Pen and was hurt by not starting the year at AAA.
depends...
if his issues are behind him. If they are, Wimmers will move very, very fast, like most high-pick college pitchers have for the Twins (Baker/Garza/Gibson, to name a few).
Wimmers is coming off a season with 42IP
Next season is about building up innings
Jacobson, Watts, Pugh
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Pugh
Has been a major bummer for me. He had a no hitter and I read everything I could about him. He seemed to throw hard and had some developing secondary pitchers. He has been able to get single A pitchers out but when he faces better competition he has been hit hard.
by clutterheart on Nov 19, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Pugh and Watts
will get their chance this year. Both should start at AA and I’d like to see both get some time at AAA. If they don’t produce next year, both could be gone. But I’ve been saying that about Shooter too.
Great Point Seth, & Jesse
However, if he would have been claimed after he was removed from the 40-Man . It would have been viewed as a mistake right? I know it would at least to me, and Seth but I’m wondering about the majority’s opinion?
Jesse? – C-Math, others? I wonder how many other SB nation blogs would jimp at the chance to pick up Bromberg for free?
theres gotta be people out there like the Pirates even Royals going wtf did we not pick up this guy for?
Yoenis Cespedes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9ge8l3jY8
^ the bottom video ^
MLB Move Type "B" compensation to the post second round, pre third round area.
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Nov 20, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
The broken arm is an opportunity to slip him through waivers
I agree with Seth. If anyone wanted him, they would have claimed him for free. The $25K risk is a weak’s worth of meal money. But the roster implications represent the greatest risk for the Rule 5. That’s why its use has dwindled so much recently.
I’m not surprised by Robertson. True, he doesn’t have the greatest numbers, but he hasn’t been used as a LOOGY in the minors. He has a major league fastball, a plus breaking ball and a funky delivery: Three qualities that make LOOGYs effective. He’ll struggle to get righties out until he can develop an offspeed pitch. But he should be effective agiainst lefties at any level.
A few years ago, I predicted the Twins would go down and get Mijares from AA because, like Robertson, he had qualities that could make him an effective LOOGY. Unfortunately, he hasn’t been used as a LOOGY. And he’s also struggled to throw strikes (until he gets 3-0 on hitters—argh!). But he has the tools (and the tummy) to be another Eat At Dennys Reyes.
Robertson should be even more effective against lefties than Mijares because he’s taller and he throws 3/4. He’s just the kind of guy you could stash on a major league roster for a year as a LOOGY.
The guy I worry about is Guerra. His change-up is devastating. Like Gut, he has struggled because the staff wants him to work on stuff. When you work on stuff against live AA hitters, you get pounded. He could be an effective middle guy for an inning or two at a time if he just threw fastballs and change ups.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Robertson Redux
All that was said from my video scouting. But hi numbers last year were really good. How did he slip under our radar last year? 10-3, 3.61 ERA, 16 saves, about a K an inning, fewer than a hit an inning, very low HR numbers. Looking at his numbers, he has an outside chance to make this team out of Spring Training. He’d be a sure thing Rule 5 draftee if he hadn’t been protected. We’ve drafted guys with worse numbers out of single A before (Santana, Rowland-Smith).
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Oops
He’s not listed int he sidebar, so I assumed. Well, good then. He had a K an inning while working on stuff last year. He will be an option for the bullpen at some point this year. Keep in mind that both Mijares and Burnett skipped AAA.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
That's great news about Span!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 19, 2011 3:31 PM EST reply actions
Here is some news about Type A players for this offseason from Ken Rosenthal
Source: All remaining Type A relievers – Madson, K-Rod, Bell – will NOT be subject to draft-pick compensation this off-season.
Teams that sign those relievers, and certain other Type As, will not forfeit picks. Teams that lose those players will still get them.
Top Type As – Pujols, Fielder, Reyes, plus former MVPs Ortiz, Rollins and others – still will carry draft-pick compensation this year.
New rules take effect next winter. Elias rankings gone. Top FAs subject to comp if teams make them qualifying offers north of $12M.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
interesting...
does that mean they’ll get supplemental 1st rd picks for them? Like if Cuddy signs with the Phillies, would we get the pick after Philly’s pick? Curious how that looks.
The system certainly needs tweaking (mainly with relievers) but the $12M qualifying offer thing seems kind of lame.
The news about Span and Revere...
Isn’t something that means he won’t trade them for the right price. Terry Ryan is a very competent GM, and he knows value decreases when players are “on the block”… He would be stupid to say that they “will be” traded…
That’s something Bill Smith would do.
IF Terry Ryan gets a good deal for one of them, he will pull the trigger. He’s all about maximizing value, and if he can pull a fast one over on another team, he will; no doubt.
He’s been listening to the calls from the Nationals about these 2… If he WASN’T going to trade them, he’d hang up the phone. He’s just making it clear to all the other teams that Bill Smith isn’t in charge anymore, and if you want one of our good players, you’ll have to give up fair value to get them.
I really don’t think they both will be in our OF next year, but Terry Ryan would be stupid to say that even if he feels exactly the same way.
I think he see’s Doumit as a DH/OF option more than anything… We’re in on Kelly Shoppach still, which means we don’t see Doumit as a reliable catching option, like I’ve said before. Unless we get a guy like Shoppach, I believe Butera will be our back-up C next year. Doumit will probably play WAY more games in the OF than at C
agreed...
it’s refreshing to see a GM that doesn’t devalue his assets through the media like Smith did. Even if you want to trade someone, don’t ACT like you do! Glad TR is back.
I hope we don’t trade Span, and I bet we don’t. I think TR is a big Span guy and understands his value. I think he’s much less high on Revere, and rightly so. I’d certainly deal him if we can get a decent return with Benson pretty much ready and Hicks/Arcia/Morales all fairly close. I see Revere as only a good 4th OF’er longterm.
Doumit I think is more of a 1b/DH than C or OF. I just don’t see the Twins playing him much in the OF with the other options (including Plouffe). But I agree we probably need to sign a good defensive 2nd C if we’re finally going to rid this team of the sucktitude that is Drew Butera.
I agree in theory.
Practically, in this situation, Ryan can’t trade a talented outfielder without getting one in return. Chances are they’re going to need to find at least one OF on the free agent market already, and trading away another one doesn’t solve any issues without getting one back.
And if we’re specifically talking Nationals, who are they going to give us? Certainly not Werth or Harper, and Roger Bernadina isn’t on anyone’s wish list. The only other OF on their 40-man roster is Eury Perez.
So generally, I definitely agree. If Ryan gets a good offer, he takes it, and if someone is on the trade block he’s not going to let the entire world know like Smith did with Hardy and Span. But context is important too, and in this situation it’s very difficult to see Ryan dealing Span or Revere.
With Mr. Ryan in charge...
…I expect you are also going to hear a lot less bashing our players from Gardenhire also. Great to have Terry Ryan back at the helm!
The outfield is staying as is
Span, Revere, Plouffe, Tosoni, Benson and Doumit with a slight chance of Parmelee.
They will sign someone...
one of Cuddy/Kubel/Willingham/Sizemore/DeJesus/Beltran.
No way they stick with just that crew.
+1
I think they’ll actually sign two guys. If they lose Kubel and Cuddyer to go along with Young, that’s three guys they have to replace. Ideally, Revere would be the fourth outfielder. They could sign Willignham for DH and get either DeJesus or Sizemore to play right. Then Plouffe and Tosoni can platoon in left.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Tosoni should be in AAA
He isn’t ready. I’m fine with him coming up for a week to ride the bench but I want ready outfielders on the roster.
I agree
Looking at the FA list, there are 20-odd left-handed hitting bench players available. No need to push anybody.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
And I think he never will be
I really hope Tosoni’s not a regular, even in a platoon.
Nah
Need at least one more guy. My new bet for this week is that it’s Cuddyer. But it could be someone else, as I would have bet last week.
So the lineup is starting to take a decent shape...
1-CF-Span (.285/.361/.387) – Note: All averages are career averages…Figured that was best based on injury situation
2-SS-Carroll (.278/.356/.348)
3-C-Mauer (.323/.403/.471)
4-1B-Morneau (.281/.353/.499)
5-RF-Cuddyer (Please?) (.272/.343/.471)
6-DH-Doumit (.271/.334/.442) or Kubel? (.271/.335/.459) ==> Wow how close are those guys?
7-3B-Valencia (.269/.314/.406)
8-2B-Casilla (.252/.310/.337)
9-LF-Revere (.262/.305/.301)
Not sure if Revere has the arm needed….I’m not sure the best place for Revere. Depends on Cuddyer I guess….
If everybody has a career average year I say the Twins are looking pretty decent to be honest…
Cautious optimism returning…..Don’t…Fall…into…trap….
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
by Go Twins! on Nov 19, 2011 8:52 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
To go back to pessimism
look at their pitching
Hopefully Ryan starts addressing the Bullpen – soon!
by clutterheart on Nov 19, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Way to ruin my hope...
I am sure that is his next concern. He seems to be addressing the primary concerns in order of importance in my opinion.
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
What do you guys think about Jason Bulger and Jared Burton?
I think they could be good adds to the mix, I hope they at,least add a couple more relievers and at least one more starter
by RaysOfHope on Nov 20, 2011 11:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I like a lot of it
I think Doumit fills in at DH quite a bit, fills in occasionally behind the plate, and then some as a 1B and RF. I, too, would love to see Cuddyer return and perhaps his price has gone down enough that he will return.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 20, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
And I think teams are cooling on the Cuddyer love for the pricetag. I think he is just kicking the tires on a few teams to see whats out there but will eventually re-sign.
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
I don't think it's teams cooling on him...
I think, like every other “big” FA, teams have been waiting out the new CBA first because they want to see what compensation is.
I'm okay with Revere.
I think Gardy like his speed too. My problems are Morneau, Cuddyer and Casilla. We may need to replace all three.
Morneau replaced with Parmelee perhaps....
Casilla with ?
Cuddyer with ? Plouffe maybe?
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
It is FAR
too early to be replacing Morneau and Casilla. Morneau still suffered from concussion symptoms last year so you need to cut him a break. As for Casilla, he had a very good year last year so I dont know why you would replace him yet. Remember, there is always Nishioka.
...formerly known as 33MorneauMVP
Never too soon
To replace Casilla. He’s maddening with his inconsistency.
very solid at both SS and 2b last year...
and I think he will be again this year. For $2M or so, he’s quite valuable.
Sure, I'll cut Morneau a break
But you have to have a back-up plan if he can’t hack it. As for Casilla, he’s to up and down all the time. One thing you need from the MI is consistent play (both offensives and definitively) As for the Cuddyer replacement, I see Tosoni and Plouffe being the fill in. I think that combo will work out better then one might expect.
Casilla was very solid last year...
the problem is the medical staff, not him.
OF
I see Revere more as the 4th OF, or starter by default next year. He hasn’t shown the abiliaty to get on base at a good enough clip to start and maximize the value of his speed on offense, but if no one else is signed or if Benson or Plouffe do not claim the starters spot then Revere can handle it by default until someone can take it from him and pushes him back into back up duty. But with his speed and range Revere would be one of the best 4th OF’s in the league. I expect Span to come back healthy next year but he is good insurance there too.
Doofenschmirtz Evil, INC.
Phineas and Ferb
I don't agree, Jesse...
not after TR’s interview last week basically saying he didn’t want Span and Revere out there together for 162 games and that that OF would really be lacking in power. I think TR sees Span as a starter for sure, but Revere as more of a 4th OF’er or platoon OF’er. Which is reasonable at this point.
LH side of a platoon will play quite a bit
Ben Revere will be on the big league team but they still need 2 more OF. One will hit righthanded.
Does no one see the value of Rever's
36 stolen bases? Span had 6 stolen bases last year. With out Revere this team has no speed. Wortst yet the guys with no speed have little power.
4th
I think Revere has to show he can get on base enough. I think they are building the team to win next year. I see Cuddyer back, Nathan back, hopefully they’ll get some one like Wertz to push for a job in the pen on the cheap, and maybe one other OF like Dejesus on the cheap and maybe Punto for MI too. That way Carroll or Punto can push at 3rd if Valencia . I doubt they do anything to the rotation because their starting pitching is good enough. They would have been alot better last year with better defense and I think Terry Ryan is trying to address that instead.
Doofenschmirtz Evil, INC.
Phineas and Ferb
For what it's worth...
this sounds pretty in line with TR’s interview last week. For better or worse he seemed fairly optimistic on the rotation on the whole; basically stating health and improved defense would go a LONG way towards fixing it.
Though I think there are certainly some flaws in the rotation, and would like an upgrade, I find it tough to disagree. I’d bet the house that our rotation is not as bad this year as it was in 2011.
Starting pitching
They probably won’t do anything, but that’s because it’s too expensive, not because what we have is good enough.
With great offense, we probably have enough starting pitching to win the division. And then get swept in the playoffs because we don’t have to starting pitching to shut down another great offense.
Note
Doumitt was offensive based signing, but We are still keeping Butera as a 3rd Catcher…
Doofenschmirtz Evil, INC.
Phineas and Ferb
That can't work with 12 pitchers
If two of your bench players are primarily catchers, that leaves one reserve outfielder and one reserve infielder. It just doesn’t work.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Domitt isn't a bench player
He will DH and play the field when Mauer, Morneau, or right fielder need a day off. Butera will still be on the roster.
My lineup as of now
1. Span CF (Easy choice here, pitch-taker, on-base guy, good base-runner)
2. Carroll SS (On-base guy, good base-runner)
3. Mauer C
4. Morneau 1B (Crossing fingers)
5. Doumit DH
6. Valencia 3B (I expect a bounce-back season from him)
7. Plouffe/Parmelee RF
8. Casilla 2B
9. Ben Revere LF
Note: I made this with players we have as of now.
I think we’ll resign either Kubel or Cuddyer, but not both.
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." ~George F. Will

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