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A Look Ahead At Ryan Doumit in 2012

So here's what we know about Ryan Doumit:

  1. He's a catcher, but only in the sense that he's always played catcher. Pretty much everyone seems to believe that he's terrible defensively. Whether this means "Mike Piazza pretending he doesn't belong as a DH in the American League" or "Matthew LeCroy making Frank Robinson cry" remains to be seen.
  2. Some players get the "injury-prone" tag without really deserving it. Doumit may actually deserve it. Injuries just seem to find the guy, and not things like a strained hammy, either - he broke his ankle last year, for example.
  3. He "can play first base and right field," say most of the stories. He didn't actually do either in 2011, when he started 53 games at catcher and caught part of seven others. As a matter of fact, over the past five years Doumit has started a grand total of five games at first base, and 51 more in right field.

Here, I think, is the problem. Since Doumit is bad defensively, I'm guessing Ron Gardenhire will agitate to keep Drew Butera on the roster as a third catcher. And if that's true, then I can't think of a scenario in which Doumit catches more than 30-40 games next year. Maybe he'll be set upon by flesh-eating bacteria, or some other such serious and highly unexpected health issue, and miss half the season. Maybe Joe Mauer will stay healthy and Doumit won't be required to catch very often. More likely, Butera will still catch once a week, and Doumit will spend most of his time either learning how to play first base or looking very much like a catcher that's been stuck in right field for the day.

I suppose the truth of it is this: Doumit's 2012 will depend on whether he stays of the disabled list, and whether he hits. If he replicates his numbers from 2007 or 2011, when he posted an OPS north of .800, it won't matter so much if he's the second coming of Delmon Young in the outfield. And if he can do it over 120 games, and can give Mauer and Justin Morneau a little bit of rest without the team having to descend into "Luke Hughes at first base"-type farce, then he'll absolutely be worth it.

But he'd better hit.

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Hate to say it

But three catchers might be a good idea, which would allow Doumit to DH more frequently.

by amiller92 on Nov 21, 2011 9:49 AM EST reply actions  

I agree with this.

But here’s the problem: if you view Doumit as basically a slight step up from an emergency catcher, and mostly as a 1B – RF – DH backup, then you’ve just signed a guy that doesn’t fill the one hole you signed him to fill. Every time Drew Butera comes to the plate, it’s an admission that signing Doumit was kind of a bad move.

Or am I completely wrong about this?

by Jon Marthaler on Nov 21, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't see it that way

Or I guess I don’t really see Butera coming to the plate much. Instead I see Doumit catching as the regular backup and playing DH with some frequency when he isn’t catching (assuming Morneau can play in the field).

Butera’s only there so Gardy doesn’t have to worry about something freakish happening to cause him to lose his DH for a game.

Of course, that’s wasting a roster spot on Butera.

by amiller92 on Nov 21, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe its just me, but I do not think Terry Ryan is going to kowtow to Gardy in terms of personnel.

I don’t think he is going to allow Butera to occupy a roster spot this year considering how excrable he is. At least I hope not.

Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...

by darren004 on Nov 21, 2011 9:50 AM EST reply actions  

They need a third catcher on the 40 man roster, at least

If that happens to be Butera (playing in AAA) or Chris Herrmann, I don’t really care.

by spanspanspan on Nov 21, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Morales is still a free agent, right?

I’d like to see him back on a minor-league deal.

by timprov on Nov 21, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I think he's arbitration eligible

Or did the Rockies release him? Haven’t kept up with that.

I’ve only seen Herrmann play in one game, and it was AFL, so I’m probably being unreasonable. But in that lone experience watching him, he: hit a double off the right field wall, legged out an infield single, stole a base, and picked off a base runner. I was impressed.

by spanspanspan on Nov 21, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions  

The Rox released him.

I’m not down on Herrmann, but it seems like he should be playing every day in Rochester. I see Morales as a depth guy, basically the role Steve Holm filled last year except with some semblance of a bat.

by timprov on Nov 21, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

made me laugh.

I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.

by montanatwinsfan on Nov 21, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

This should be green.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 21, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Nov 21, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

If, if, if

If Mauer finds the Fountain Of Health next year, I’m not worried about Doumit’s defense. If he doesn’t, I’m not worried about Doumit’s defense, ‘cuz the team will stink anyway and it’ll give us all something to laugh at if he’s as bad as advertised. If Butera makes the Opening Day roster you’ll know not to buy tickets for this year.

Steve Goodman lives.

by twinsbrewer on Nov 21, 2011 11:13 AM EST reply actions  

"Bad" at catcher

I don’t think he’s bad at catcher. He’s better than Morales or LeCroy. He at least has a strong arm. I’d put him in Mike Redmond’s class—plenty good as a backup. He might have more WPs than Reddog, but he’ll also hit the ball a lot harder. So that balances out.

It’s almost impossible to carry three catchers and twelve pitchers, unless you rotate the DH among several position players. As much as Gardy might want that, I expect Ryan to put his foot down. All he has to do is bring up Corky Miller and Gardy will roll a gutter ball, go back to his office, and cut Drew. Or, Ryan could just trade Drew to take the possibility away from the manager.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 21, 2011 11:25 AM EST reply actions  

Except to trade someone, you have to find another team willing to take him.

Future headline: “Ryan Trades Butera For $15, Two McDonald’s Hash Browns”

by Jon Marthaler on Nov 21, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Wasn't there something...

about the Astros being interested in Butera last year?

/googles

MLBTR seems to be down, but this will be the link once it works… http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/03/astros-wanted-drew-butera.html

by spanspanspan on Nov 21, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, Smith called him "untouchable" :-/

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 21, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

He can hit home runs

When he closes his eyes, swings, and prays really, really hard.

Steve Goodman lives.

by twinsbrewer on Nov 21, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Jon

You forgot the coffee and Eggmcmuffin.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Nov 21, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

you mean to give them to the other team along with Drew...

he literally may be the worst C in the history of this game.

by DJSkillz on Nov 21, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Speaking of Corky Miller

The real problem was not carrying three catchers just in case (four, if you count LeCroy), it was Gardy’s insistence on starting everyone on his bench at least once a week to keep them fresh. He actually started Miller three times and Redmond four times in the first two weeks of the season, with the best hitting catcher in the AL sitting on the bench half the time. At that point (and after three losses and a 0 OBP in the three games Miller caught), Ryan marched into Gardy’s office and informed him he was making a roster move. It was one of the most ridiculous things Gardy has ever done.

This is my main worry with Butera. Gardy’ll feel a need to start him at least once a week, taking ABs away from Mauer and Doumit.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 21, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That pic of Terry is awesome

That look he’s making cracks me up

JIM JAMS BUSINESS IS MASHING TATERS, AND BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!

by MashinTaters on Nov 21, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

But

One can be the 1st baseman and the other the DH when Butera starts. If anything, Doumit provides insurance if Justin Morneau isn’t ready to go, lets the Twins keep Chris Parmelee in Triple A, and gives us a drinking game for use when Bert mispronounces his name.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Nov 21, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

It's still a waste of outs to allow Butera anywhere near a batters box

There are plenty of FAs who can fill in in right field and first base from the bench who will have a better OPS+ than 24. Some say, “What about his defense?” I’d rather have Doumit behind the plate than in the field. Unlike Mauer, he is not a natural athlete at every position. Whoever we get to fill in at first and right will be a better first baseman or right fielder than Doumit.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 21, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I know

But if Drew Butera is going to be used next season, it will be as Carl Pavano’s personal catcher. Doumit will be the DH and Mauer will be at first. At the very least, the situation will be better than last season. If Doumit is iinjured, we can call up Parmelee and he can play first while Mauer DH’s.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Nov 21, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe Butera could be retrained to take a HBP for the team every PA

He could be the next Carlos Quentin.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 21, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, he'd better hit

He is a defensive liability wherever he plays, so he needs to hit. An OPS of .800 would be more than acceptable. I don’t believe any regular left on the squad OPSed .800. As far as position played, it all goes back to Mauer. If Joe is catching 130 games, subbing in Doumit for the remaining 32 shouldn’t be too detrimental. As far as using both catchers in the lineup, it is a lot better if neither of them is the DH. For example, Doumit behind the plate, Mauer at first and Morneau the DH. Either Mauer or Morneau may force this on the club if a) Mauer can’t be a regular catcher and effective hitter or b) Morneau can’t play in the field because of concussion fears.

by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 21, 2011 11:48 AM EST reply actions  

Yes

It’s all about whether the M & M boys had little hiccup in their careers last season or if they are ending their full time play at catcher and 1st. If the latter, then the Twins may be entering re-build and how Doumit hits will probably be a moot point.

The other teams could make trouble for us if they win. — Yogi Berra

by Twnzfan on Nov 21, 2011 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

He might have something in his eye

Or wants to get out of the game so he can play Oregon Trail.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Nov 21, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

He can experience that in real life now with the Twins

Casilla was carried off by an eagle:

☐ Search for him.
☐ Wait.
☐ Keep moving.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 21, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

You chose to search for Casilla

You find Casilla at a dogfight with Michael Vick and you two save the dogs.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Nov 21, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Twins training staff edition Oregon Trail

Ryan Doumit has a broken leg. Do you:

A. Tell him to man up and walk it off, bad talk him to the press.
B. Conduct an animal sacrifice, contact the baseball gods, and use divination to determine treatment.
C. Use more advanced sciences such as astrology, alchemy, and phrenology to cure him.
D. Acknowledge this was meant to be, congratulate Drew Butera for his “creative” methods of finding more playing time.

"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"The more toppings a man has on his pizza, I believe the more manly he is." - Herman Cain

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 21, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You heard it here first:

Ryan Doumit will suffer from Bilateral Leg Weakness next season.

Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"

by Yabbs on Nov 21, 2011 5:11 PM EST reply actions  

I suffer from that after every shift at work...

"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." ~George F. Will

by SooFoo Fan on Nov 21, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Fred Garvin?

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 21, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Bad at defense doesn't begin to describe Doumit.

I have watched DAMN close to the full 162 game slate of Bucs game over each of the last couple seasons. I watched a really healthy chunk of their “efforts” in 2009 as well.

Doumer is painful to watch in the field. One fine June weekend in 2010 they stuck him at first base against the Tigers. I wish I could figure out how to find the game threads from bucsdugout for those games: people were just crawling up inside themselves to die; it was THAT awful watching him hemorrhage runs.

On the occasions they stuck him in right his play was, predictably, not strong. Not strong at all. Cuddyer runs around better out there, and coming from me that’s a not-nice thing to say. He also pulled something playing there several seasons ago. Because he does that sort of thing.

But really, you don’t want a guy likely to post 105 wRC+ manning first base and right field overmuch, right? Especially not without even average defensive skills. They got him because Butters sucks and the ballclub REALLY needed a “proven closer” back when, so here we are, right?

But his catching is pretty much an atrocity. Folks over at bucsdugout mostly agreed he looked slightly better last year (when healthy) than he had in years past, which meant he was merely really freaking bad instead of flat-out incompetent. He has a strong arm, but he has a terrible hitch in his release that makes the arm strength moot much of the time. By the time the ball leaves his hand fast dude’s are already into their slide. (Well, it seems that way, anyway.) His receiving skills, if you focus on them closely enough and care enough about the team he’s playing on (as I have for the Bucs) will lead you to long periods of deep melancholy and hopelessness. Stab. Stab. Head dip. Gee, another called ball on a Pitch F/X strike. Repeat.

He came in last in the latest sabr-y study on pitch framing that’s been all the buzz this fall. He came in last in several earlier sabr-y studies on pitch framing that didn’t get such a buzz (then or now). He sucks, and all the evidence is suggesting this is a really, really important skill.

Don’t get me wrong: he’s one of my absolute favorite baseball players on a certain level. He walks up to Danzig’s Mother, ferchrissake. (I am curious to see whether this flies in Target Field.) He looks kinda bad ass, but not like a douchey bad ass.

Actually, he looks like a prototypical “tough guy”. Lantern jaw n’at (as they say in the ‘burgh). But he isn’t. He finds ways to break. ALL. THE. TIME.

Don’t get me wrong, as a $3 million DH v. RHP this is a fine move and lets them dump Kubel without crying too much. But if they expect him to be anything but a major defensive liability as a backup catcher they’re badly mistaken. (Please do not read this as an endorsement of Drew Butera’s job as a major league baseball player.) And his bat becomes comfortably below average when he hits right handed, so he really has no business playing, period, when a southpaw is starting.

by tobynotjason on Nov 21, 2011 11:55 PM EST reply actions  

Couple questions

If you’re in charge of the Twins, do you play Doumit or Butera as Mauer’s backup C? If Mauer’s out with an injury, do you use Doumit or Butera as the starting C?

Given what I’ve read about Doumit, I thought it best to ask a guy who’s seen both Doumit and Butera play.

"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"The more toppings a man has on his pizza, I believe the more manly he is." - Herman Cain

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 22, 2011 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Doumers in a heartbeat.

I’ve also seen Butera “hit”.

The thing: this is the lowest bar imaginable.

by tobynotjason on Nov 22, 2011 3:10 AM EST reply actions  

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