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Should the Twins Trade a Starter?

A lot people are set on the fact that Kevin Slowey is likely to be non-tendered or traded for whatever meager return he can fetch at this point. At the very least, that move would come as no surprise. However, there have been a couple of other starters floating about on the rumor mill of late, but do the Twins have the pitching depth to move names like Carl Pavano and Francisco Liriano? My take and a poll after the jump.

Star-divide

Three years ago, if someone had told you that Pavano would be regarded as a steady innings eater who’s all but a lock for 200 innings, would you have done anything more than laugh in their face? Pavano was coming off a dreadful stretch with the Yankees where he pitched just 145.1 innings over a four-year contract in the Bronx. He signed an incentive-based deal with the Indians that guaranteed him $1.5M that offseason. How the times have changed.

In what can be politely described as a train wreck for the Twins’ 2011 rotation, Pavano was the Rock of Gibraltar, making 33 starts, completing three of them, and compiling 222 innings. He led the league in hits allowed (262), and regressed from his 3.75 ERA in 2010 to 4.30. Still, his durability, razor sharp command, and ground ball rate over 50% would make him appealing to teams despite his lack of strikeouts (4.14 K/9 in 2011).

One team that seems particularly interested is the Rockies, who have made no secret about their desire to find a starting pitcher this offseason. The obvious connection to make would be Huston Street, as the Rockies would like to move Rafael Betancourt into the closer’s role in Denver. Troy Renck of the Denver Post wrote last week that he expects the Rockies to try to deal Street for a starter like Pavano or Baltimore’s Jeremy Guthrie. I agree with Tim Dierkes’ assessment at MLBTR that the Rockies could acquire better long-term assets than Pavano or Guthrie for Street, but they may want some more immediate help if Renck’s speculation is accurate.

I can see the argument for the Street-for-Pavano package (assuming any other parts are merely complementary pieces and the Twins don’t give up anything more of significant value). Street’s contract has him at $7.5M this year with a $9M club option for 2013. That saves the Twins $1M in 2012 ($1.5M if Pavano hits his $500K innings pitched incentives again in 2012), and all but guarantees that Matt Capps signs elsewhere, netting a supplemental pick. Pavano's rotation spot could be filled by a free agent like Aaron Harang, although his durability hasn’t been as strong as Pavano’s.

Meanwhile, the Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo named Liriano as a starter that should interest the Red Sox, despite his Hindenberg-esque 2011. Parker Hageman told his followers on Twitter yesterday to play GM, asking whether or not they’d move Liriano. I replied by saying that Liriano shouldn’t be off limits, but I wouldn’t merely dump him because he’s still affordable (projected $5.7M salary) and his upside for that price is huge.

As I said in my next two tweets, if you were to trade Liriano, where do you spend the $5.7M? There’s no clear-cut better upgrade available on free agency. That money might buy you an arm like Harang or Paul Maholm, but neither has Liriano’s upside, and I doubt the return would justify that drop in the Twins’ rotation ceiling. Liriano didn’t have a good enough 2011 campaign for that. The Red Sox would likely be attempting to buy low on a high-upside arm. There’s no real way for Terry Ryan to justify asking for equal value to that upside, and no real way for Ben Cherington to justify actually meeting those theoretical demands. I hope and expect that the Twins will hang onto Liriano for next season and gamble on receiving something closer to 2010 than 2011.

From a purely speculative basis, I could see a good amount of interest in Scott Baker if the Twins decided to make him available with the line of thinking that he pitched terrifically in 2011 but can never stay healthy. Still, at just $6.5M this year with a $9.25M option in 2013, he’s a pretty big bargain even if he only delivers 130 innings. But, for the purposes of this post, I imagine he’d draw interest. His injuries, however, would prevent a high impact return.

The question with all of this though, is whether or not the Twins have the depth available to trade a starting pitcher. The "fast track" college arms they drafted in 2009 and 2010 (Kyle Gibson and Alex Wimmers) have experienced major setbacks. Anthony Swarzak is, at his very best, a fifth starter (and likely worse than that). Liam Hendriks has barely pitched at the Triple-A level. Slowey is probably gone, one way or another.

My preference is still the high-upside pairing that I mentioned a few weeks back. I wouldn’t be furious with the Pavano-for-Street swap, assuming the club filled Pavano’s role with a potentially effective pitcher. However, I’d rather just see them preserve the already limited rotation depth and fill the closer's role externally with a reasonable free agent or a more shrewd acquisition by Terry Ryan.

Steve Adams also writes for MLBTradeRumors.com and contributes to MLB.com Fantasy Baseball and 612sports.net. You can follow him on Twitter: @Adams_Steve

Poll
Would you be willing to move a starter if you were the Twins?
I'd swap Pavano and Street.
172 votes
I'd move Pavano for prospects.
89 votes
After 2011, I'd move Liriano for whatever we can get.
56 votes
If they're not shopping Baker, they should be.
31 votes
The concept of an even thinner rotation is as frightening to me as the thought of facing vintage Roger Clemens is to Drew Butera.
226 votes

574 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 68 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

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I don't think any of the starters

Are untouchable, but it depends on what you get in return. I’m not sure about Pavano for Street, but I’d be open to it. As for the rest, depends what you get back.

by amiller92 on Nov 29, 2011 1:13 PM EST reply actions  

I wouldn't get rid of Pavano

Where would the Twins have been last season without him eating all those innings? Twins NEED at least one starter like him, and I’m just not sure the return and a replacement would be that much of an improvement.

I would trade Liriano or Baker—depending on what was offered.

I DID hear a rumor from a Japanese report that the Twins are planning to move Duensing back to the bullpen. So maybe Slowey would stay and these two would just flip roles (since each seemed to do better in the others’ role?) Just not sure if the organization just really wants to get rid of Slowey for personal reasons.

"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez

by myjah on Nov 29, 2011 1:23 PM EST reply actions  

Duensing back to the bullpen you say?

:)

Yes i like it.

Yoenis Cespedes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9ge8l3jY8
^ the bottom video ^
MLB Move Type "B" compensation to the post second round, pre third round area.

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Nov 29, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

bout damn time...

he should have stayed there the entire time.

by DJSkillz on Nov 29, 2011 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Historic futility

’62 Mets futility

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 29, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

It depends on how good your bullpen is

I for one am glad he saved us from further innings from Burnett and Dumatrait.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 30, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes

And what your other starters are like. Inning eaters can be a good thing, but I’m not advocating 5 inning eaters.

"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez

by myjah on Nov 30, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Wins is all that matters

don’t give me this bull about saving the bullpen. That’s why you keep a middle relief pitcher or two. Who cares if you pitched 7 innings and lost 9-2. The only guy that needs to be saved innings is the set-up guy and the closer.

by b1 on Nov 30, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Middle relievers can only pitch six innings a week

If every one of your starters has a short start in a week, you start using your set-up guys for long work. They get burned out. When that happens, you start losing games you should win. It happened quite a bit last year.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 30, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I'd like to hold on to Baker and Liriano, despite injury/performance issues.

I like Pavano’s stability, but acquiring Street would definitely be good enough return for me to be ok with trading him. I honestly get more frustrated when the Twins give up a lead than when they give up 4-5 runs in the first few innings, so some stability in the bullpen would be much welcomed.

I’d love to give Slowey another chance, though I’m not as high on him as some.

by Caleb A on Nov 29, 2011 1:34 PM EST reply actions  

agreed, on hanging on to both Baker and Liriano for at least another half-season.

Yoenis Cespedes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9ge8l3jY8
^ the bottom video ^
MLB Move Type "B" compensation to the post second round, pre third round area.

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Nov 29, 2011 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd want a little bit more

But Street would be a good start.

Pavano is a good fit for the Rockies – ground ball pitcher in front of Tulowitzki.

by DJL44 on Nov 29, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd trade Blackburn for Street

I’d even throw in a middling prospect to make that happen.

by DJL44 on Nov 29, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure...

We would make that trade. The Twins should be willing to make that trade, but the Rockies won’t do it. They know they could do better than Blackburn.

"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller.

by Andrew Bryz-Gornia on Nov 30, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought it was a joke

Maybe Blackburn and Slowey for Street. But I still doubt the Rockies would do that.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 30, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I think they would....

though I wouldn’t deal Slowey for Street straight up, given salary. I’d rather bet on a Slowey bounceback.

by DJSkillz on Nov 30, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd definitely deal Slowey for Street

Street’s a much safer bet to give you a good season.

by DJL44 on Nov 30, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe...

for for 70 innings instead of 160, and at triple the cost.

by DJSkillz on Nov 30, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

70 innings at a leverage of 2

Street’s not throwing mop-up innings.

Slowey’s a terrible fit for Colorado anyway. He’s a flyball fastball/changeup control pitcher. They need to convince the Rockies that Nick Blackburn is a groundball machine and all his problems last season were because the Twins had horrible shortstops behind him.

by DJL44 on Nov 30, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

can't disagree there on Blackburn...

I still wouldn’t deal Slowey for Street considering cost/value though.

by DJSkillz on Dec 1, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd say Pavano was more than gravel pit of the rotation last year.

But hey, when you’re comparing it to quicksand, I guess that counts.

Bottom line, I’d almost be wiling to do the trade straight up. Pavano’s peripherals suggest he was lucky to have an ERA as low as it was. That’s not as scary to the Rockies, who are used to 5.0 ERAs, but in a pitcher’s park like Target Field? No thanks.

No one should be untouchable. But Baker should be the least likely to trade. Liriano I’m not in a hurry to trade, but if the right deal is there, then I take it. But I don’t know what the Dead Sox would offer that could fall in the ‘good enough’ category.

by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 29, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Give Slowey one more shot

I really think this is a rebuilding year for the Twins. I don’t see why you don’t just offer arb to Slowey and see what he does. He’s shown he can pitch in the big leagues (albeit only 5 innings at a time). IF he can stay healthy I still believe he could be a middle of the rotation starter.

Overall it makes little to no sense to trade anyone on this team because you’d be selling low on just about all of them. Pavano is the one starter I would consider moving because you’d actually get a solid return for him.

I’d be fine with the the Twins signing 2 of Bedard, Haren, Sheets, Webb then rolling with in house options Baker Liriano, Slowey, Blackburn. This is assuming a trade of Pavano though. If the bulllpen was Street, Perkins, Duensing etc. I’d be pretty confident in our late inning leads.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Nov 29, 2011 2:10 PM EST reply actions  

+1

I agree with every single thing you just said!

I guess the only slight addition I’d make is I’d trade Blackburn and Pavano for just about anything. I think there’s a very good chance both will be worth less than their contracts next year, giving them negative net value.

by by jiminy on Nov 29, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

+1 as well...

Slowey is worth more than $3.5M on the open market on a 1-year deal. Therefore, makes zero sense to non-tender him. He’ll “get it” yet, IMO.

by DJSkillz on Nov 29, 2011 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

This

If I had to rank how I expect the pitchers to perform next season it would go:

Liriano
Baker
Slowey
Pavano
Blackburn

I’d much rather see if Slowey can give me a good year in the rotation for his price than dump him for what can’t be a good return just because I’m committed to running Nick Blackburn out there every 5 days, or because I’m cranky about a season that sucked and he pisses me off because he’s the smartest guy in the clubhouse.

The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.

by Eric in Madison on Nov 29, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Slowey? Really?

59 innings with an ERA+ of 60 at the peak of his age/performance bell curve doesn’t look good. He’s had one year out of five with an ERA+ above 100 (which is average). He’s never thrown more than 160 innings in one season at the major league level. Those are not numbers that make him a fifth starter, let alone a third starter.

You can blame injuries, I suppose. But that doesn’t increase my confidence that you can rely on him. You can cite his minor league record, I suppose. Most of that happened a long time ago. Last year he was no dominant pitcher at AAA.

People who claim he’s a solid number 3 are hanging onto the nostalgia of his projections from his minor league career. Thing is, you can get away with a good fastball and great control in the minors. If you want to carry that into the majors, you need good secondary stuff. His secondary stuff is the weakest of any starter the Twins tried last year. I have more confidence in Hendriks than Slowey at this point.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 30, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think last year was necessarily the most representative of what he can do

What really bugged me was how the Twins stretched him out twice, only to decide someone else should start and stick him in the bullpen. Plus the injuries…

Slowey is no ace, but I wouldn’t use last year to say he’s necessarily worthless.

"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez

by myjah on Nov 30, 2011 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't think he's worthless

But I wouldn’t count on him as anything but a fifth starter, and only if we have a guy like Hendriks available to fill in when he gets hurt. Some think that is worth $3.5 million. I don’t know the market, but it seems a little much for the fifth starter spot. And even if the market dictates that kind of dough, the money can be better spent on this team elsewhere, imo.

I do hate giving up on guys, though. So hopefully one of those teams that people claim would give him more than he’s worth in arbitration will send a a prospect for him in exchange for a bit of savings.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 30, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

my pro slowey argument

I guess with this teams larger payroll I see 3.5 million for a potential starter as a decent deal. I’d like to see Hendriks get a little more time in AAA and I like Slowey better than Swarzak as our 5th starter.

You keep quoting last years statistics but lets say Slowey puts up a season similar to his best season in 2008. Both are equally likely outcomes in my opinion. Think of what Slowey’s trade value will look like at mid season or at the end of the year compared to what it is now. Likely he does something in between right around 1.0 WAR if he’s given the chance to start, even that would likely improve his trade value if the Twins were to turn to Hendriks mid season.

I’ll admit I probably overstated his value when I said he could be a mid rotation starter. He’s probably more like you said a 5th starter, I think maybe a fringe mid rotation is a reasonable expectation though.

When it comes down to it 3.5 million is probably about the right price for him which is why the argument is so split on keep him or waive him. If this were the Twins of 40 million payroll I’d probably be more apt to get rid of him. However, I think they can afford to keep him and hope his value increases.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Nov 30, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

If he returned to 2008 form, that makes sense

I would say the likelihood of him returning to 2008 form is less than 20%. That was four years ago. It’s always easier to pitch well against guys you’ve never faced before, especially for Slowey, who hides the ball well. But the league has pretty well figured him out at this stage.

His best chance is to come up with a new pitch that keeps hitters off balance and helps him pitch deeper into games. It seems a big risk to hope for this considering he has not improved his secondary stuff since 2008.

I get that we should be less risk averse with a higher payroll. But payroll is tight (if we follow Ryan’s statement that he will reduce payroll to 100 M from 115 M while trying to sign at least one of his own free agents). It’s not my money, so I would probably take the risk, as long as it doesn’t affect my ability to fill holes in the bullpen and the outfield.

I would not take the risk if it meant having to fill outfield holes with guys like Revere full time or giving larger roles to someone like Burnett. I don’t know where we stand on those things. I guess we’ll find out at the tender deadline.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 30, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think it has to be an either/or...

Dave St. Peter seemed to make it fairly clear that our payroll will be about the same as it was last year. I’d rather deal Pavano or Blackburn and save money than non-tender Slowey. And still sign a couple of other high-reward pitchers and decent OF’s (or, my top choice; resign Kubel).

by DJSkillz on Nov 30, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions  

If payroll is status quo, I'd take the risk

And to be clear, I’m not talking about nontendering him. If he’s as valuable on the open market as you say, they should have no problem finding a trade partner for him. They just need to make the decision before the tender deadline.

I doubt we would find trade partners for Blackburn. We probably could find a trade partner for Pavano, but I wouldn’t trade him unless we’re blown away. Unlike you, I like guys who can pitch more than 200 innings a year.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 30, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

haha..

that’s fine. i just think pavano is very replaceable. even if it’s not just one guy, 2 guys could easily more than cover his innings and effectiveness this year IMO.

by DJSkillz on Nov 30, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Are we watching the same pitcher?

The only reason Slowey’s FIP is lower than his ERA is because he doesn’t walk anybody. But he doesn’t walk anybody because they don’t let him walk them. They see so many good pitches to hit before he gets into a 3-ball count, they just pound him. He gave up 78 hits in 59 innings last year. If you factor that out over a full season, that’s 250 hits. When was the last time a pitcher gave up 250 hits in a season with fewer than 200 innings?

If he wasn’t set to make $3.5 million, I’d say, what’s the harm? We can always plug in Hendriks or Swarzak if he fails. But that kind of money can get a guy who will give you some value in return. I’d rather use that money to sign a decent reliever.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 29, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

You might be right

However that’s a pretty small sample in a year he was injured off and on and initially trying to convert to the bullpen.

You may be right about getting a good reliever with the money. I’m just saying he represents another possible option as a starting pitcher and could have value. Look at Perkins. A year ago he was scum of the earth but he turned it around and realized his full potential in the bullpen. I’m just saying for 3 million I think it’s a worthwhile risk to give Slowey another shot.

In his 2 “healthy” years 2008 and 2010 he was a solid mid rotation starter who made 27 and 28 starts at around a 4.25 ERA combined.

The other thing is I think all the Slowey won’t goto the bullpen crap was just that . . . crap. If the Twins feel they have plenty of starters I’d like to see Slowey prepare for the bullpen role all preseason just like Perkins did and see what he can do.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Nov 29, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you're still over praising him

His 08 season was pretty good and promised a solid future. His 2010 season was a back of the rotation type season. 155ip, 91 ERA+, 1.291whip, .8 WAR, solid k/bb rate. He managed a quality start in less than a third of his starts, which is really remarkable.

I’ve never really understood Slowey’s hype. Really, his ceiling was maybe a solid #3 type starter and he’s really failed to make that. Now he’s a guy who isn’t capable of going 6 innings in a game and won’t move to the pen. I wish we had traded him for Hanrahan when we had the chance.

by Gunnarthor on Nov 29, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

Outside of aces, guys need to develop new stuff to stay successful at this level. If they don’t, they regress. ‘08 was his peak. Since then, injuries have hurt some, but his lack of adjustments have hurt worse. I think he’ll be a little better than he was last year just ‘cause he should be healthier. But he’s not worth the money.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 29, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Who is worth the Money.

Blackburn, Baker, Capps, Nathen, Pavano? None of these guys where worth what we payed them. I don’t think you’ll fine much better then Slowey for 3mil on the open market. Trade him next year.

by b1 on Nov 29, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed on Slowey...

though I’d argue that Baker is MORE than worth what he’s making.

by DJSkillz on Nov 29, 2011 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I think people forget how high people were on Slowey a few years ago

I would LOVE to see a six-man rotation of high-upside starters (Whatever hodgepodge of Bedard et. al. we could acquire) built to absorb the inevitable injury

by bl4ckduck on Nov 29, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Pitcher trade

I would like to see starters traded… for other starters. I’d like to see an attempt to reshuffle the long-term pitching plan in a major way (ie, not just changes made this year, but moves that change our expected rotation next year, in 2014, and as far out as 2016). Involving a current starter, and perhaps a young position player/prospect in a trade for young starters would be good news to me.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Nov 29, 2011 5:18 PM EST reply actions  

Tradeng a starter for Street

Makes no sense. You would be admitting you are rebuilding but then have Street in the Bullpen.

by clutterheart on Nov 29, 2011 5:46 PM EST reply actions  

Pavano and Blackburn...

both traded for cheaper relievers. Save their money and money in the pen.
Spend the excess money saved on offense.
Sign Bedard and Harden as “upside” starters coupled with bounceback seasons from Liriano/Baker/Slowey (all 3 should absolutely be kept). With Duensing/Hendriks/Manship serving as “emergency” starters. I might sign one more 1-year vet too to add to the mix.

Bullpen should be about 1-year stopgaps to bridge the gap to Gutierrez/Guerra/Bromberg, all of which should be solid bullpen pieces for this team by 2013 at the latest. And Wimmers/Gibson SHOULD be ready to contribute in 2013 as starters. Continue to monitor the trade market for a #1b to go with #1a in Liriano. A guy like Cueto/Cain/Greinke/Felix.

by DJSkillz on Nov 29, 2011 5:57 PM EST reply actions  

oh, and sign 1-2 "bounceback" relief candidates, like Michael Wuertz...

for around $1M each. I would have gambled on Broxton at $4M/1 yr too, btw. But oh well.

Continue to sign tons of minor-league deal upside relief pitchers too. I’d literally try to sign about 15 of those guys every offseason just to have great competition in camp.

by DJSkillz on Nov 29, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Pavano

Pavano was a rock, but thing is, he wasn’t that good. And given the age, I don’t think he’s gonig to improve. Next season is going to be won or lost on the health of Mauer, Morneau, Span, Baker, and Liriano, so I’d probably look to sign high upside and tradable pieces that can be dumped if the season tanks. As such, trading Pavano for Street makes sesnse if you pick up Bedard and Harden. That leaves Liriano, Baker, Bedard, Harden, and Slowey for the rotation with Blackburn as the longman and eventual starter when there’s an injury. That rotation has upside, and if the offense is back, it’s one that can take you deep into the playoffs. If not, you can sell whichever of Harden or Bedard that’s healthy for other prospects.

by diehardtwinsfan on Nov 29, 2011 6:16 PM EST reply actions  

Off topic, but interesting...Mariano Rivera and Vin Scully have birthdays today (Nov 29)

And Vin (at 84) is exactly double the age of Mariano (at 42 ). Also, Mariano’s age matches his number 42, the last to wear that number.

The other teams could make trouble for us if they win. — Yogi Berra

by Twnzfan on Nov 29, 2011 6:33 PM EST reply actions  

John F. Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln,

And Abraham Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy.

Both were assassinated.

But not by their secretaries.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 29, 2011 6:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Woah (In a Keanu Reeves voice)

Mind was just officially blown

JIM JAMS BUSINESS IS MASHING TATERS, AND BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!

by MashinTaters on Nov 29, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Even Better


Michael Dick had been travelling around the UK with his family to track down his daughter, Lisa – who he had lost contact with ten years earlier.

After a long fruitless search, he approached the Suffolk Free Press, who agreed to help him by putting an appeal in their newspaper.

Fortunately, his long lost daughter saw the appeal and the pair were reunited. The odd thing was, his daughter had been right behind him when the free paper took the photograph – shown in the photograph above.

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Nov 29, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I think they absolutely Should

I think somebody will be in the bullpen, and to me its likely Brian Duensing….

SO that leaves a bullpen, with Perkins, Duensing, Mijares, Swarzak and 3 more openings.
-I believe 1 of the openings will be filled by Oliveros or Carlos Gutierrez, 1 of the openings will be filled by Michael Wuertz or similar FA, and the last spot ….hey why not someone like Huston Street?

even if Both Slowey and Pavano are moved….

You’re still left with Baker, Liriano, open, Blackburn , and some combo of Hendriks, Maloney, Diamond, Manship untill better names are ready like a Gibson, Wimmers, Bromberg, or Salcedo.

so for the 1 open spot, presumably a #2 or #3 type of starter well theres a LOT of FA SP’s still out there Buerhle, Bedard, Wada, Iwakuma, Jackson (shudder) , and trade candiates like Wandy Rodriguez, James Shields, and more…

So i’d have a hard time imagining it being REALLY difficult to fill 1 void. That would likely be an upgrade to Pavano or Slowey at this point.

Yoenis Cespedes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9ge8l3jY8
^ the bottom video ^
MLB Move Type "B" compensation to the post second round, pre third round area.

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Nov 29, 2011 6:44 PM EST reply actions  

Jackson I'm actually warming up to....

IF (and who knows) his market remains somewhat quiet.

Dave Cameron just had a great piece on him last week comparing him quite favorably to CJ Wilson.

by DJSkillz on Nov 29, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

How much do these guys want is the Question.

or how much will we spend on one pitcher? 5-7 Mil? I think the Twins will look to spend 2-3mil on a starter.

by b1 on Nov 29, 2011 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

That my point

I don’t see the Twins signing a starting pitcher for 8mil. They are going to stick with what we got.

by b1 on Nov 30, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Whatevs. We have a new undead catcher

With him we could probably make any pitcher work like he’s possessed….

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Nov 29, 2011 8:05 PM EST reply actions  

No way

Pavano for Street straight up makes little sense to me. I’d like to get a starter for a starter.

With so many IFs in our rotation we need someone we know can take the mound every fifth day and go 6+ almost every time.

"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." ~George F. Will

by SooFoo Fan on Nov 29, 2011 11:17 PM EST reply actions  

Pavano and Slowey

Lets be real, Slowey at one point… was a pretty legit pitching prospect who proved he could play in the pros. I see no reason why we should sell so ungodly low on him right now. Remember a Twins pitcher that was in the same position a couple years ago named Glen Perkins? He turned it around pretty damn well.

If anyone goes it should be Pavano. I like the guy a lot, both as a player and personality on the team. However, he is getting paid pretty big money for what I feel is a #3 starter on a contending team. He had a lot of value, even if he was only posting good not great numbers, 2 years ago when the whole staff was going through puberty. But now that everyone has innings under their belt, there really is no reason to be paying 9 million to a man who is simply going to be eating innings and posting a 4.20 ERA. That money and player can be spent much more wisely on another player and a bunch of prospects. However, if you offer Street for Pavano… I’ll take Pavano. We need a closer, but I’m not about to trade for an iffy closer that will cost us $16mill to keep over 2 years. We could have had Nathan back for that kind of money.

I also wouldn’t be against trading Liriano if we can get value for him. While he has almost all the talent in the world, his work ethic and mental stability on the mound is a joke. Get rid of him if you can get some value for him because even if he does put up huge numbers in the regular season, I don’t ever see him being the ace that wins you the big game and that’s the kind of money we’re going to have to pay him if he has a good regular season

REPORTER: What do you think is happening to the team?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: The ship be sinking.
REPORTER: How far can it sink?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: Sky's the limit.

by uofmike on Nov 30, 2011 2:16 AM EST reply actions  

why not

use Liriano/Pavano and see if you can’t involve them and maybe Revere or something as part of a three-way deal to get a Shields/Gio type pitcher?

REPORTER: What do you think is happening to the team?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: The ship be sinking.
REPORTER: How far can it sink?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: Sky's the limit.

by uofmike on Nov 30, 2011 2:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Liriano

I’m going to hold judgment on his work ethic until this season. I believe that he may have just have had too many innings in 2010 and was frustrated all year because his arm was dead. Liriano can be great, so I hope we don’t trade him away when his value is low.

Totally agree about being skeptical about paying so much ($ wise) for Street.

Also, Pavano and Revere has no chance of netting Gio, and why would the Rays want to trade for a pitcher who couldn’t make their rotation—while being the highest paid pitcher on the staff?

by SD Twins Fan on Nov 30, 2011 8:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Both

I was saying send Pavano, Liriano, and someone like Revere off in part of a 3 way trade

REPORTER: What do you think is happening to the team?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: The ship be sinking.
REPORTER: How far can it sink?
MICHAEL RAY RICHARDSON: Sky's the limit.

by uofmike on Dec 1, 2011 4:15 AM EST up reply actions  

100 Million payroll!!!

Well,
I think it should be raised to $110 Million payroll, it will give more flexablity, for obtaining either Cuddyer or kubel or one of them and add some other players.
Attendence is great at Target Stadium, US fans watch and enjoy watching them, but another Ten Million would ease some tension, in filling a bat need or a pitcher we need.
We can still wheel and deal at the Winter Meetings………i fell the 100 million payroll is a signal to a rebuilding year.
We need a Ace and it is going to have to come up from the farm system! Maybe this years draft???
I’m okay with trading either pavano or Liriano and slowey…….well that is a another story..
Baker needs to step up as well as Blackburn!!

by twinssdfan on Nov 30, 2011 6:57 PM EST reply actions  

Pavano's the man...

No way.

I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...

by urluckyday on Nov 30, 2011 8:19 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

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