Who should become the next member of the Twins Hall of Fame?
by Bobomojo on Nov 30, 2011 10:00 AM EST
in By the Numbers
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PrintAs part of the club's 40th Season Celebration in 2000, the Minnesota Twins created the Twins Hall of Fame, which they've since used to honor 23 players, coaches and executives "who have contributed to the organization's growth and success since the Twin Cities broke into the Major Leagues in 1961."
Earlier this week, the team released the newest ballot for the Twins Hall of Fame and announced the 2012 inductees will be revealed at TwinsFest, which is set for January 27-29 at the Metrodome. According to the team's website, "voting is conducted by a 54-member committee, which includes local and national baseball writers, Twins broadcasters, Twins Hall of Fame members, local TV and Radio members, select Twins front office personnel and the fans." Fans can make their selections at http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/min/fan_forum/hof_ballot.jsp before midnight on January 4. At most, two players will be inducted into the Twins Hall of Fame in 2012.
For those interested in taking part in the voting, I put together a chart that includes the total Wins Above Replacement (WAR ) generated by the players currently in the Twins Hall of Fame and those currently being considered for inclusion. The WAR totals listed below only reflect the wins created by these players while wearing a Twins uniform, excluding value they may have generated for other teams or for the Senators before they moved to Minnesota in 1961.
The chart, and more, after the jump:
|
NAME |
WAR |
|
NAME |
WAR |
|
Rod Carew |
62.7 |
Larry Hisle |
17.5 |
|
|
Harmon Killebrew |
54.9 |
Kevin Tapani |
17.5 |
|
|
Bert Blyleven |
45.7 |
Rick Aguilera |
16.1 |
|
|
Kirby Puckett |
44.8 |
Camilo Pascual |
16.1 |
|
|
Tony Oliva |
42.4 |
Earl Battey |
15.5 |
|
|
Brad Radke |
41.4 |
Greg Gagne |
15.1 |
|
|
Chuck Knoblauch |
35.4 |
Zoilo Versalles |
14.8 |
|
|
Kent Hrbek |
35.3 |
Tom Brunansky |
14.6 |
|
|
Bob Allison |
31.1 |
John Castino |
13.1 |
|
|
Jim Kaat |
28.1 |
Brian Harper |
12.3 |
|
|
Cesar Tovar |
25.8 |
Dean Chance |
11.2 |
|
|
Frank Viola |
24.5 |
Dave Boswell |
8.7 |
|
|
Gary Gaetti |
23.8 |
Eddie Guardado |
8.4 |
|
|
Dave Goltz |
23.7 |
Al Worthington |
7.0 |
|
|
Jim Perry |
22.2 |
Mudcat Grant |
4.6 |
|
|
Roy Smalley |
21.4 |
Jeff Reardon |
4.3 |
|
|
Corey Koskie |
21.1 |
Dan Gladden |
4.1 |
The players in bold are currently in the Twins Hall of Fame, the other players listed are on this year's ballot. I should also note that I'm using the WAR totals from baseball-reference.com.
In addition, just because I was interested, I put together a list of the best Twins players that aren't already in the Hall or on the current ballot. The players in italics are ineligible because they're either currently playing or haven't completed the required two-year waiting period following retirement.
|
NAME |
WAR |
NAME |
WAR |
|
|
40.7 |
11.7 |
|||
|
32.1 |
11.1 |
|||
|
19.8 |
Lyman Bostock |
10.9 |
||
|
19.5 |
Leo Cardenas |
10.9 |
||
|
Shane Mack |
18.5 |
Jerry Koosman |
10.6 |
|
|
16.9 |
9.3 |
|||
|
Jimmie Hall |
15.5 |
9.2 |
||
|
Steve Braun |
14.7 |
Gary Ward |
9.2 |
|
|
14.5 |
Jim Merritt |
9.1 |
||
|
Butch Wynegar |
14.0 |
Eric Soderholm |
8.9 |
|
|
13.2 |
Geoff Zahn |
8.7 |
||
|
Rich Rollins |
12.0 |
8.3 |
||
|
11.9 |
Side Note: Had I used Fangraphs' WAR totals, Torii would have fared much better on this chart. His defense is valued far more in their calculations than it is under the Baseball Reference system. FYI.
Just a couple random thoughts:
It's pretty clear that Chuck Knoblauch is the best eligible player not currently in the Twins Hall of Fame. But do you want to see him inducted? I mean, this isn't Cooperstown. This is a decade-old awards program created to honor the players that have meant the most to the franchise and its fans. As someone who had the pleasure of sitting in the Metrodome's left field foul territory during this debacle, it's hard to think of Chuck's name listed alongside my boyhood heroes.
If it's possible to get "hosed " in the Twins Hall of Fame selection process, Shane Mack should be outraged. Mack ranks as the best player not currently in the Twins Hall of Fame or under consideration this season. Looking solely at WAR, Mack would rank ahead of 4 players currently in the Hall, and appears to be a better candidate than 13 of the 18 players on this year's ballot. In five seasons with the club, Shane batted .309/.375/.479 with a 130 OPS+ and, of course, helped the club win a World Series in 1991.
Joe Mauer and Johan Santana. Wow. Joe Mauer is not even 30, and he has already accumulated the 7th highest WAR in Minnesota Twins history (5th highest among position players). Johan Santana was traded away before his 29th birthday, and he still ranks as the 3rd most valuable pitcher in Twins history.
So, who do you think deserves to have their name enshrined next to the likes of Killebrew, Puckett, Blyleven and Carew? If you take the time to vote, put your ballot and rationale in the comments section.
171 comments
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Comments
I don't see this as a stats question
I’m going with Gladden and Smalley, mostly for their on-going presence with the team, and of course, the championship thing. Runner up would be Tapani.
If Dan Gladden gets in they should burn it down and start over
I’d rather see “none of the above” get in than Dan Gladden.
Hitting a grand slam
In the first game of the 1987 world series is pretty much enough “fame” for me.
Again, this isn’t the Twins Hall of Great Players.
Sure
And I assume Scott Leius and Steve Lombardozzi are next, for their postseason homers.
I think Gladden needs another 5-10 years in the booth (and be a better radio announcer) for his radio gig to put him over the top.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
And Gene Larkin for driving in the winning run in '91
And don’t forget Don Baylor’s homer in 87.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Oh yuck
More of Dan Gladden’s announcing shouldn’t help his case.
True
What actually counts is how he mispronounces names and basically “hugs” Oakland’s foul territory. Example, we need a drinking name for when he mispronounces Ryan Doumit on opening day/night.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Does his radio time count?
I mean, isn’t that a big part of the “Twins success” and he’s been a part of it for a longtime (I think, I didn’t live in MN for many, many years so I don’t know when he took over. But I thought it was a while ago). The HOF isn’t just about what happened on the field so I could see some combo thing. Still, I didn’t vote for him. But I wouldn’t be outraged that he’s in.
Someone who doesn't know what the purpose of a "Hall of Fame" is
A Hall of Fame isn’t a collection of people who are already famous. The purpose of the honor is to bestow fame upon worthy players.
They need to slow down the inductions so we don’t end up honoring every guy anyone remembers.
This is a single teams "Hall of Fame"
The only purpose is nostalgia.
by amiller92 on Nov 30, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Do me more specific
How does being inducted into the Twins fall of fame “bestow fame” on anyone? Only Twins fans care at all.
to me it's...
“recognizing the best Twins in their history”
MLB has a HOF, correct? Are there arguments every year on how “nostalgic” players were to decide whether they get in or not? I think not.
That's the thing
I think they are different things, even though they have the same name.
Nostalgia can play a part
But fans don’t vote for the MLB HOF, which is also much more selective. Writers and such vote for that.
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
Fans have 1 vote for the Twins HoF
The rest of the votes are from “writers and such”.
Ahh, I see
Still, seems it’s been a lot more just about nostalgia than the MLB HOF
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
I agree
I really wish there was a vote threshold to gain entry. “Nobody” is a perfectly valid answer to this kind of election. That doesn’t help sell tickets.
I agree
If someone is elected every year, everyone is going to be in the Twins HOF!
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
give them term limits
ha ha you will be a HOFer for the next 5 years after that you go back to just being sort of ok…
Come see all your favorite EPIC fails @ www.minnesotatwins.com!
True
But there is that nostalgia factor with the MLB Hall of Fame as well. I suspect Bob Costas is in fanboy heaven there as well as all of us. Personally, the closest I ever got to the hall of fame was viewing the Roger Maris Museum in Fargo, but hopefully Roger will get there before me. If Kirby Puckett is in, Roger Maris should be a shoo-in.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
That's easy
They put their freaking picture up in Target Field for everyone to look at all the time. If that doesn’t “bestow fame” what does?
Fans get to vote
Team hall of fame is for fan favorites.
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
That's kind of how I see it
I see the “retired jersey number players” as the best of the best.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
Chuck Knoblauch...
without any hesitation. He was HUGE for this team, and is one of the top 10 greatest Twins of all-time.
It’s a crime he isn’t in already just because of a team grudge.
Knoblauch is the most qualified by the numbers
Knoblauch also has the ROY award, World Series ring, All-Star appearances, and other accolades that you would like to see from a Twins Hall of Famer. That said, it’s even money he wouldn’t attend an induction ceremony.
Camilo Pascual is a good choice if you’re willing to give him some credit for his time as a Senator before the franchise moved. He was one of the top pitchers in the AL for several years. If you’re avoiding Knoblauch then Pascual is my choice.
Exactly
Why induct someone who isn’t even going to show up?
Knoblauch’s far and away the best player on this list. But is that the question?
it should be, imo...
and I think Knoblauch would attend. There was a great piece on him recently.
No way
I know which article you’re referring to. But there was nothing in there that would give the impression that he would come back for any reason. I seriously doubt he will even step foot in this state again in his lifetime.
I don't know...
it’s worth the chance. Try to mend fences.
What if we don't want to mend fences
/shakes angry fist
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
by myjah on Nov 30, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Then you would be banned
from civilization for starting a fight. The judge might go easy on you though :)
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Chuck started it
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
by myjah on Nov 30, 2011 9:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Knoblauch has never returned for any of the "all-time team" honors he's received (i.e. all-time Metrodome team in 2009)
Why would he return for this?
I wouldn’t have a problem putting Knoblauch in… I just wouldn’t expect him to show up.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 30, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
knoblauch and crime in the same post
that’s funny
Come see all your favorite EPIC fails @ www.minnesotatwins.com!
Well, he did join the hated Yankees.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
And I love Shane Mack...
but I wonder if there’s also some stupid underlying team grudge stuff with him? It’s always been widely assumed that he was a steroids guy (look at his career/Japan, etc.) and I wonder if there’s some underlying organizational backlash with that?
Japan baseball
Is a hitter’s league. The ballparks are smaller than the parks in the United States so that means that players are going to have better averages and higher home runs. Translation, we need to move the walls so that straight away center field is only 340 feet out. This is information from Dan Gladden BTW.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
He must have graduated from The Bob Costas School of Logic too.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 30, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not talking about HR's...
I’m talking about the fact that he even went to Japan in the first place. Mack’s career screams steroids. And again, that’s not even a big deal to me; the vast majority of these guys were/are on them. If it were up to me, they’d all be legal and monitored. 5 red bulls before a game is an “enhancer” as are cortisone shots, etc. Let’s have our best athletes play their best and most often.
I'm for inducting Knoblauch
If we get to throw hot dogs at him during the induction ceremony.
/shakes fist angrily
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
Which would have the added benefit
Of inspiring current player Jose Mijares to excel, hoping the same will some day happen to him (he’d eat them all.)
Hopefully fans don’t get too mad at Nathan for bolting to a team with better playoff prospects. As long as he doesn’t say anything dumb when the teams play, or hit Joe Mauer in the head, I think people will remember him warmly.
Steve Goodman lives.
by twinsbrewer on Nov 30, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Mijares wouldn't get any
Hrbek would be in attendance and NOBODY is going to take a hot dog away from Hrbek.
This is true
Unless maybe they trade him a beer for it.
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
I vote for Mack
I doubt Knobby gets it, just because of what a jerk he was.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Knoblauch has serious issues with social skills
Is he a “jerk” or “highly functioning”. Depends on your point of view.
He wasn't a jerk when he came up as a rookie
He developed into a jerk as his fame and notoriety increased. He was already a jerk when he went to New York and allegedly started taking steroids (why he hit 20 homers in a season and crashed to earth like a test jet when he went off the stuff). Now, he’s a high-functioning socially awkward guy who nobody wants to talk to.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
for the record...
I think almost all players were/are on steroids, HGH, and various other enhancements. There are millions at stake; it almost doesn’t make sense NOT to take them, as players can always be a step ahead of the testing. If the best HS athletes you know are taking steroids (and they damn sure are) then you can bet that the pros are still taking them too.
Oh, I know
But the permanent side effects can be rough. It’s common to become more aggressive and less sensitive to others’ perspectives (i.e. socially awkward) after taking them.
For the record, I don’t think it was as wide-spread as you think. I think there were teams where it was prevalent (Texas, New York, San Francisco, Oakland, Toronto, Cleveland) and there were teams where it was uncommon (Minnesota).
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I don't know Cmath...
that just seems naive to me.
I really think something like 80-90% of players were and ARE taking something.
And I don’t think sterioids is ever really to blame for dropping the N-Bomb in your 40’s…
Knobby is grade-a, b-hole.
I disagree
I think he’s a grade-b a-hole.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 30, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
NO
Knobby is a grade AAA a-hole.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I'd rank him AAAA
He keeps trying to make the big time, but coming up short.
However, he will not make the a-holes hall of fame.
That is reserved for the idiots like John Rocker.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
So
By your knowledge, let’s say there is a girl that happens to be in high school in Iowa and is batting .700 in softball in a state high school tournament. Because she is batting .700, you are automatically saying that she is using either or/and steroids, HGH, and other enhancements. For the record, we don’t know if they did testing of steroids and other enhancements at the high school level in any state unless congress mandated it. Heck that girl batting .700 might be doing so because she simply practices a lot or is simply a gifted athlete. It isn’t fair to start a witch hunt on anybody just because somebody else was shooting up. Everybody is inoccent until proven guilty and it includes high school students.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
BTW,
That .700 batting average is a composite over three games in a eight team knockout tournament with consolation.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Then she's definitely on roids
I think DJSkillz was speaking in hyperbole, but his point is still valid especially with the vague declaration of “various other enhancements.” Creatine is pretty prevalent, even amongst non-athletes I know who just like the look of being bulked up. He’s not saying every high school athlete is doing it, but a lot of them are.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 30, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
But
How would you know? Tell me oh great Colossus of Rhode how you know this girl or any other person is on roids without taking a blood or pee sample.
Better yet, can you safely say that Kirby Puckett was on roids during his 1987 hitting binge in Milwaukee?
This composite was over three games which is a very small sample size. Everybody can get hot at one time or another. Nobody will be questioning Joe Mauer for taking steroids if he has a horrifically good World Series including a walk-off homer in game three while working a four game sweep of the Mets, and winning the World Series MVP in the process while A-Rod is roasted over an open fire because he hit 49 home runs in 2012.
Like I said above, the only way we will know is if Congress mandates drug testing at the high school level. All I am saying is that girl got hot one weekend, and batted .700 for the tournament. Given only that info, you can’t accuse anybody of using steroids at the high school level because the quarterback of a San Jose area high school and members of the San Francisco 49ers and Oakland Raiders were caught in a police sting operation that ends up allowing the World Doping Agency to catch up to the athletes.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I don't know why I bother responding but...
1) The subject line was sarcasm.
2) No one is saying that you can accuse any specific person of being on steroids just because they are successful, particularly for a short streak. What’s being said is that there are many athletes who are taking supplements of some kind, be it steroids or vitamin B12. Concocting a weirdly specific theoretic case where a someone who doesn’t fit the pattern DJSkillz laid out isn’t taking steroids is a giant strawman.
You need to relax and stop being so accusatory.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 30, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
Joe Mauer abuses dairy substances.
And Morneau uses caffeinated sodas.
CHEATERS!!!!
by spanspanspan on Nov 30, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Strawberry milk is the source of Joe's power.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I thought Morneau used maple syrup...
… and poutine and back bacon and other Canadian “substances.”
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 30, 2011 8:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I stand corrected
Now I understand why you know everybody does steroids.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
That's absurd
Who drinks maple syrup when you can get a soft drink from McDonald’s for 99 cents?
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I am not accusing anybody
I am just defending the high school population in general. However taking steroids is a very serious situation, and I fail to see the sarcasm in your post subject.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
My point was....
from experience. As a HS athlete myself, many of our greatest players and opposing teams’ greatest players were taking steroids or similar enhancements. Ditto for almost all of my friends’ experiences that were high school athletes in other parts of the country.
So again, my point is that if the best HS athletes in the country are doing steroids in large numbers, then it stands to reason that as dollars and demands go up, that would only rise. And as someone who has worked in AAA baseball, I’ve got plenty of good sources have seen plenty of it at that level as well. NO ONE in the majors, in any sport, would surprise me as a steroid user. Not Morneau, Mauer, Nick Punto,.. well, maybe Punto, because he sucks so terribly bad that he should sue his supplier if that’s the case…. but no one would surprise me. I firmly believe, and have for a long time, that almost all these guys are doing something, and have been for a long time.
And again, it’s not even that big of a deal to me; I didn’t care one bit about the McGwire/Bonds stuff. Because most of their competition was juicing too IMO.
Maybe it is where you live that makes all the difference,
But it doesn’t mean that every high school athlete in the country is roiding up. This goes double for the pros as well. For example, Joe Mauer seems to be a natural at any position he plays when he is healthy. Also, just because somebody drinks Red Bull, it doesn’t mean that they have some enhancements to their performance. If what you say is true, that could mean that Adrian Peterson, Kevin Love, or Joe Mauer might be breaking doping rules just by drinking coffee before a game.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I'm old
But tis wasn’t at all true in the 90s.
Jessy...
maybe you missed the part about “other parts of the country”. Steroids are rampant, even at the high school level. And they still are at the pro level as well.
My point on 5-6 red bulls before a game is more to do with the amphetamine crackdown by MLB, which is semi-ridiculous.
I suspect
That those who are around it do it it themselves think everyone else is doing it.
Honestly, I do not think many baseball players are taking banned substances anymore, because the consequences of a positive test are too high.
I suspect quite a few are taking HGH, because they aren’t testing for it yet (right?). I suspect that will drop off significantly when the testing starts.
But yeah, everyone’s taking “something.” The question is whether that “something” is banned or not. I don’t have any problem with using supplement or whatever that are legal.
If I ruled the universe, I guess I’d say let them take whatever as long as they get it legally and they disclose it. Fans can make their own judgments.
But I’m not your supreme overlord. At least not yet ;)
I've never done them myself...
at all. But I know a whole ton of people that do/have. Ditto for most of my friends’ experiences, who grew up in very different parts of the country than me.
Disagree on the # of players taking them now. I still think it’s quite high. Testing will never catch up to those that want to cheat the system.
Mack would be my vote as well
He was my fourth favorite Twin growing up, behind only in this order 1) The Rat 2) Puckett 3) Gladden and then Mack. I would say mt vote would be Gladden, but obviously my memory of his playing days is not accurate as his WAR is well below worthy. Tovar would be my vote going off of the list that is actually in play.
My guess is that Gladden will get in as he is one of the more memoriable Twins and now is broadcasting. When I think of the Twins during the my childhood Gladden is one of the faces that appears, I am assuming that this is the case for many.
Gladden is a childhood memory
Not really a good one. I’m still scared of his mullet.
True
I guess it depends on ones position on Mullets…
Lyman Bostock
Inducting Lyman Bostock would just be a cool, classy act on the part of the Twins. Not to mention that if he hadn’t of been taken from us too soon, he might have been an actual Hall of Famer.
That's a good one
I’d be in favor of that sometime.
Gladden and Bruno
Dan Gladden was the ultimate Twin – hard working, steal a base, help you win kind of a player. He was huge in both World Series titles. Bruno was a great Twin as well and was a big part of the Twins first Series – it wasn’t his fault they traded him for a nobody Herr the following season.
Knoblauch better never make it – he whined his way out of Minnesota – complaining that he was on a losing team. I think he got spoiled with that World Series ring his rookie year. NOT deserving – not a true Twin.
hardly the first great athlete...
to “force his way out”.
I think there is a vast double standard in this regard. Knobby is one of the best 10 Twins of all time and absolutely should be in. IMO.
It's not a double standard
It disagreement about what this is recognition is for.
You seem to think its “the best ballplayers who have played for the Twins.”
I guess I think we have stats for that, and as this is a thing that’s only relevant to the Twins’ fan base, we should go with the players that mean the most to the fans.
Knobby’s in under your approach and probably out under mine.
by amiller92 on Nov 30, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was talking about a double standard...
when it comes to what players we talk about as “forcing their way out” of situations, or wielding power, etc.
For instance, Magic Johnson is one of my favorite athletes of all-time, 1a or 1b with Kirby and Mauer. Magic got his first coach fired. A lot of “good guys” want out of bad situations to win a title, or get their coaches fired, etc. MOST of these athletes we follow are total pricks; they are. I’ve worked alongside them, and I wouldn’t want a wife/girlfriend/sister/mother being with 99% of them. So I don’t really care if players on my team are “dicks” or not. Because the reality is that most of them are anyway.
by DJSkillz on Nov 30, 2011 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
True, and here are two more examples.
1. Michael Jordan actually forced the Bulls to fire Doug Collins because the coach was crying.
2. Chan Gailey was forced out of Dallas because the Cowboys, including Troy Aikman, didn’t like how he ran the offense.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
not even close to top ten
Knoblauch is no where near top 10 Twins
Knobby was a great player and he wasn’t the first and won’t be the last to force himself off of a team. However their are certain players that I would not want in my teams hall of fame for the way that they acted towards the team while they were playing and Knobby is the first amongst that list. He wanted out and since he did I do not feel like he belongs with the others that stayed with the team their entire careers or left on better terms. To me this is a team award and should be a reflection of both playing ability and a positive impact on the team and its fans.
by MNSportsGuy on Nov 30, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Bert Blyleven gave the finger to the fans
He’s IN the Twins Hall of Fame.
I know he apologized later. Honestly the fans owe Knoblauch the apology. Throwing hot dogs was ridiculous. It’s one of the worst things I’ve seen MN fans do.
agreed completely...
made us all look like idiots.
And to supersugg, how exactly is Knoblauch NOT a top 10 Twins player all-time? Name me 10 better. Especially 10 retired options better.
What was embarrassing was how long after he left that this happened
He left the Twins in the 1997-1998 offseason and the throwing things incident occurred after he had moved to LF which was 2001 or 2002. People were throwing things at him like things had just happened last week.
by DavidRF on Dec 1, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yep...
and I hate to say it, but we always have had a semi-stupid fan base, comparatively (obviously places like this board and most of our blogging community excepted). I wish we had a fan base like St. Louis, for example.
It could be worse
It could be Boston.
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 1, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
I've always thought (and been told by other fans)
That the Twins had a rather knowledgeable fan base.
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
Scandanavians and Germans have long memories
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I don't know...
I want to say we do, but I’m not so sure. Look how many of the “casual” fans LOVE Nick Punto, for instance. Or think of Gardy as some awesome manager, etc. I think we’re at best mediocre as a fan base in that regard.
Like I said, I wish we had the fan base of the Cardinals. They’re easily #1 in my book.
I don't consider myself a casual fan
I liked Nick Punto
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
They had Tony LaRussa
Even more “old school” than Gardy. And they like Nick Punto too.
Twins fans are #1 in my book.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 1, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
That was my take...
Jim Caple kept including snarky Knoblauch one-liners in his ESPN columns a few years after Knoblauch had retired.
Like this guy?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 1, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
It was 2001
Tom Kelly was the manager that went to plead with the fans in left field according to the linked article which means 2001 was the year. For the record, outfielders are easy targets, and if the Yankees are so brazen to let Knobby play in the outfield in a state where he has burned bridges. Heck the same can happen to anybody. For example, John Rocker had it coming when he basically insulted the city of New York.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
You really tried to test me
but even in Knobby’s case, I’m not cool with blaming the victim.
I agree If, ...
1. By hard working, you mean hard partying—he was never able to anything in day games because he was too hung over
2. By steal a base, you mean get caught stealing—he was caught 93 times in 315 attempts
Is this a popularity contest based on hustle or is it a reward for his contributions to winning on the field? If the former, Denny Hocking deserves a shot. But I think it’s the latter, in which Gladden’s actual contributions to winning were much lower than the casual fan’s perception. He had a career OPS+ of 95, which is right around what he had every year, slightly below average. His defense was slightly above average. Overall, he was average.
This isn’t the Hall of Average, it’s the Hall of Fame.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 30, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
exactly...
which is why Knobby should be in, IMO.
Again, I think it’s ridiculous how much he is hated because “he’s an asshole” or he “forced hi s way out” of a horrible team. Neither of those really hold water to me.
1) MOST pro athletes are assholes. That’s just a fact. So big deal to me if Knobby is too. These guys are not idols, nor should they be.
2) I’m not sure most great players wouldn’t have wanted out from that Twins’ situation.
Like a LOT
— though I like Tovar and Boswell, too.
It’s gotta be Knoblauch. I’d love to see him come back and make amends.
Also: holy crap, Joe Mauer.
by Brady Eyestone on Nov 30, 2011 3:41 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Surprised more of you aren't suggesting Cesar Tovar
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
I'd throw my vote to Tovar
The guy played every position — literally. He was the Michael Cuddyer of his era, with a better batting average.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 30, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
Justin Morneau should get in...
He hasn’t played in two years right???
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
by Go Twins! on Nov 30, 2011 4:15 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Flagged
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 30, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
I think I seen him in a game or two last year.
Or was that his sister Justine Morneau.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
You mean Justin and Justine's Big Brother
The biggest news in North Dakota is that he is planning to ban South Park for making fun of Canada.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
myjah was referring to the Homerun Derby by which "Jason" Morneau was announced the winner
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
It was actually...
Jason Monroe wasn’t it? If memory serves she butchered both 1st and last name 2 different times.
True
But you could make the argument that Justin has brothers and sisters.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
That North Dakota must be one happenin' town
If that’s the biggest news story now. I guess they must have finally rounded up that runaway cow in Buffalo Gap.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 1, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
True
Plus we are selling our oil to China for Two bucks a barrel.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I don't think that is correct....at all.....
Looks to be 78.36/barrel curretly
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
Galdden was part of 2 of the biggest moments in Twins history.
- Grand slam in Game 1 of the 1987 World Series.
- Scored the 1991 World Series winning, walk-off run in Game 7 (after his hustle double set it up)
I know people can be down on Gladden for his play overall, but when you watch Twins World Series highlights, you see a lot of Gladden.
Why not call it the Twins Hall of World Series Highlights then?
We can induct a different player from 1965, 1987 and 1991 each year.
Exactly...
I remember Brian Harper moments from 91 more vividly than Gladden. And I wouldn’t put him in there either.
Harper was my favorite
That shot of him blocking the plate is my #1 memory of the series
Harper almost lost us the 91 series
Several times in Atlanta, he caught the ball so far ahead of the plate that he missed the tag trying to reach back behind him. Those close plays at home killed us in the middle three games. Of all the mechanical things that bugged me about Harper, this one was his most egregious. He tended to creep towards the mound waiting for the throw and was out of position when he took it. He got it right on that play in the picture, though.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
The award is about the fans as much as the players.
That should be evident after noticing that Knoblach is not in. The fans remember Gladden for his big moments in the biggest games. -And honestly, playing well in the World Series is more important.
I’m not saying that I think Gladden should get in. I’m just saying that I would understand the reasoning behind putting him in, and I don’t really disagree with it.
The "plays" associated with those players would certainly be on exhibit in a Twins HOF
But that doesn’t mean that the player belongs. Would you put Aaron Boone or Jim Leyritz in a Yankee HOF?
Fans forget we actually cut Gladden loose two weeks after the 1991 WS because we had a better, younger cheaper option in Pedro Munoz.
yup...
And DJL, after Kirby, I’m with you on Harper’s block. Absolutely.
Another thing; how does putting a guy like Gladden, or Harper, or Larkin, in the HOF recognize those memories any more? We’re going to play those WS clips regardless at every big ceremony. So why recognize the player on top of the play?
And Pedro Munoz's claim to fame
He ended a 22 inning affair vs Cleveland with a walk-off hit back in 1993.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Well...
That’s basically why Greg Gagne is in. Everyone remembers his name because he was a starter on the World Series teams.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
moments or nostalgia...
do not make a HOF player IMO. Not for MLB or for individual teams.
We can recognize/celebrate the moments (and in so doing, honor the player that made them) without unfairly elevating the career of a player to a place it never achieved.
Gagne at least was a starter for a long time at a key defensive position
I’m not thrilled with Gagne making it, but he has a much better case than Gladden.
Gladden played 5 years in LF with an OPS+ of 90. That’s stopgap-level.
Tyner was for 2+ seasons instead of a regular for 5
Gladden had a bit more pop and less OBP… but similar offense-levels I suppose.
Nick Punto isn't eligible yet either.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 30, 2011 6:07 PM EST reply actions
He has a +∞ GRIT Rating
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
by Go Twins! on Nov 30, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I say John Castino just based on his heart alone
that guy went through hell and numerous surgeries to keep playing for the Twins, he really did leave it all on the field.
You can’t judge a player based on stats alone for a franchise HOF, you have to take into account their impact on the team, fans, and organization as well.
Mike Lamb is no Nick Punto
What are you smoking?
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
only the good stuff
maybe Lew Ford or Jason Tyner should get it?
Lew’s can accept it as his World of Warcraft character…
Come see all your favorite EPIC fails @ www.minnesotatwins.com!
MIKE REDMOND FOR THE TWINS HALL OF FAME!
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
by Go Twins! on Nov 30, 2011 9:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
naked award accepting
on the jumbotron!
Come see all your favorite EPIC fails @ www.minnesotatwins.com!
I think Pasqual has a good case.
I’d probably have to take a closer look back at him, Mack, and Koskie, maybe Tapani, if I were a voter.
Since I’m not a voter, I’m just going to say that if they’re looking for feel-good happy-Twins-history events they ought to retire 22 already.
I will always miss 22
Carlos Gomez sure can fly…wha??? you meant that Radke guy?
Come see all your favorite EPIC fails @ www.minnesotatwins.com!
You can vote
But not for Mack because he’s not on the ballot.
Why is Terry Mulholland not on the ballot?
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
by John_Locke on Dec 1, 2011 12:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Life just ain't fair...
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
Roy Smalley
Over-used term alert!!
He played the game the Twins way.
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." ~George F. Will
Dave Goltz
Top WAR pitcher not in, MN boy, still active in Twins events.
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