Jesse's Twins Blueprint for 2012
by Jesse on Nov 4, 2011 1:01 AM EDT
in Speculation
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PrintLast year I put together an off-season plan for the Twins that, while not perfect, had a couple of choices that would have helped lead to a better season. Of course there were also some failings. But one thing you can say about the plan: it was ambitious. And I'm planning on keeping that same attitude for my blueprint this time around. Let's get right to it.
Free Agent Decisions
Michael Cuddyer - I'm offering him arbitration because I know he'll decline it, and we'll hopefully get a first round pick out of it. Worst case scenario it's an early second rounder, but the point is that I'm not willing to pony up three years and $33 million (or more). I love Cuddyer, and if he'd stay for two years and $20 million I'd bring him back in a heartbeat. But I don't think that's realistic, and I don't begrudge him heading out and fetching the largest contract of his career.
Joe Nathan - The Twins have already bought out his option. I tried to fit him into my budget, but I made a couple of aggressive moves elsewhere and chose to take the closer position in a new direction. Like Cuddyer I love Nathan, but the Twins are at a major crossroads right now. Tough decisions need to be made, and I'm making one here.
Matt Capps - This is not a tough decision. He's not being retained, and he's not being offered arbitration because he'd accept.
Jason Kubel - Kubel is the only free agent I'm retaining. The TwinsCentric Offseason GM Handbook estimates he'll sign for three years and $20 million, so I'm taking that with a yearly payout of $ 6.67 million.
Check out the rest after the break.
Arbitration Decisions
Tender: Francisco Liriano ($6 million), Glen Perkins ($1.6 million), Jose Mijares ($700 K)
Non-tender: Kevin Slowey, Alexi Casilla, Jason Repko, Matt Tolbert, Phil Dumatrait
I feel like I'm being fairly ruthless here, too. Slowey and Casilla both figured into my plans originally, but considering that Slowey was on pace to make between $3 and $3.5 million and Casilla was set to make around $2.5 million, I was able to replace their mediocre production with a fraction of the salary. Mijares I kept around because even if he's terrible, eating a $700,000 contact isn't a big deal. But he was so worthless in 2011 that he could be a good bounce back candidate.
Trades
1. Trade Carl Pavano to Colorado for low level prospect.
Going back a few months there have been rumors that the Rockies are looking for decent pitching, and one of the arms they've been tied to is Pavano's. Pavano (and his mustache) have become small time folk heroes in Minnesota (well, big time folk heroes for Twinkie Town), and he was as much of a horse as the Twins' rotation had in 2011, but I'm going to need the $8 million for a big rotation investment.
2. Trade for Martin Prado from Atlanta.
Prado was on my list before today, when it came out that the Braves may be open to moving him. Prado is a buy-low candidate, coming off of a very weak season (.260/.302/.385) when the previous three seasons he'd done very well (a combined .309/.358/.461). He's right-handed, will be my starting second baseman, and can backup at third and in the corner outfield spots. He's not an elite defender, but he's not terrible either. He'd be fine. Tim Dierkes estimates he'll make $4.4 million through arbitration.
Free Agent Signings
Clint Barmes, SS (2 years, $8 million)
Barmes will pair with Prado to become my new middle infield. He's a player brought in with the mindset that he's a solid defender who can help solidify what should be an improved defense in 2012. His metrics at short for the Astros last season were good, and he'll make a positive impact on the field. Offensively he won't get on base often, but he could provide some pop at the bottom of the order.
David DeJesus, RF (1 year, $5.5 million)
Like Prado, DeJesus also had a down year in 2011. For a decent price and probably some good incentives, he'll sign with a club on a one-year deal in order to build some value and (probably) sign the last multi-year deal of his career after the 2012 season. Pairing with Denard Span and Ben Revere, DeJesus will give the Twins their best outfield coverage in years and, hopefully, a good OBP just behind the big bats in the order.
Ryan Doumit, C/1B (2 years, $6 million)
Doumit is a risk, but should be protected provided that both Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau are relatively healthy. He's a switch hitter who can backup both positions, and in limited time could provide decent punch. If he doesn't pan out it's okay, because he's a backup, and if he's forced into starting too often it means the season hasn't gone as we'd like and Chris Parmelee will be experiencing trial by fire anyway.
Jamey Carroll, IF (1 year, $1 million)
He's versatile, gets on base at a very good clip, and if Barmes or Prado don't work out as expected can spot start three or four times a week. He'll be in his age-38 season, as we've discussed, so he'll need to be used appropriately, but understanding what kind of player he is there is definitely value here.
Jonny Gomes, OF (1 year, $1.25 million)
Gomes smashes left-handed pitching, which makes a nice platoon option for Kubel and allows Gardy a good pinch-hitter-for-power option in the late innings. He's not a great defender, but he shouldn't have to play the field more than once or twice a week anyway in an ideal situation.
Roy Oswalt, SP (2 years, $22 million)
The Phillies won't be offering Roy arbitration, which means the Twins won't have to worry about sacrificing a draft pick to sign him up. Oswalt isn't the pitcher he once was, but he still gets a decent number of ground balls, has very good command, and can control a game. He's my big spend.
Jonathan Broxton, CL (1 year, $4 million)
Broxton is coming off of a season that was lost to an elbow injury, so there's risk here with potential for a high reward. If he's healthy he'll be one of the best closers in baseball with elite strikeout rates. In a market full of closers his value may not be as high as he'd like, so there's a real opportunity for the Twins to cash in big provided they're okay with the risk. I know I am.
George Sherrill, LH RP (1 year, $1 million)
Sherrill's a lefty, and will pair with Mijares and Glen Perkins to give Gardy a lot of options as he tries to build a new bridge to a new closer. He pitched well again, this time for the Braves in 2011, striking out more than a batter per inning. Like Broxton, he also finished the year on the disabled list. Also like Broxton, there's an opportunity for great value for the cost.
Michael Wuertz, RH RP (1 year, $1 million)
Made availble not too long ago, Wuertz was a premier reliever for a few years until he hit a wall in Oakland. The last two seasons haven't been the best, in no small part because his already suspect command kind of gave out on him. But he still has the ability to miss bats and strike batters out in spite of having a fastball that burns in the upper 80s. He's also lost something on his slider. Is there potential for him to regain form? With the current state of the Twins' bullpen and with his apparent market value, it's worth the chance.
Other Decisions
Tsuyoshi Nishioka is starting the year in Rochester. With place-holding infielders on board, he has the luxury of getting playing time everyday in an environment that isn't as pressure-filled and where the Twins can afford to be a bit more patient.
To make room for nine (yes, nine) free agents, my 40-man roster will now look like this:
Pitchers: Baker, Liriano, Blackburn, Oswalt, Duensing, Broxton, Perkins, Mijares, Sherrill, Wuertz, Oliveros, Swarzak, Guerra, Hendriks, Manship, Vasquez, Waldrop, Gutierrez, Stuifbergen (19)
Catchers: Mauer, Doumit, Butera (3)
Infielders: Morneau, Prado, Barmes, Valencia, Plouffe, Carroll, Nishioka, Hughes, Parmelee (9)
Outfield: Span, Revere, DeJesus, Kubel, Gomes, Benson, Tosoni, Arcia, Morales (9)
Which means the following players will be removed from the 40-man (who weren't non-tendered earlier): Bromberg, Burnett, Diamond, Gray, Hoey, Maloney.
All of which leaves us with this 25-man roster and payroll:
| Pos | Name | Sal | Pos | Name | Sal | |
| C | Mauer | $23 M | SP 1 | Oswalt | $11 M | |
| 1B | Morneau | $14 M | SP 2 | Baker | $6.5 M | |
| 2B | Prado | $4.4 M | SP 3 | Liriano | $6 M | |
| 3B | Valencia | $500K | SP 4 | Blackburn | $4.75 M | |
| SS | Barmes | 4 M | SP 5 | Duensing | $500 K | |
| LF | Revere | $500 K | ||||
| CF | Span | $3 M | CL | Broxton | $4 M | |
| RF | DeJesus | $5.5 M | SU | Perkins | $1.6 M | |
| DH | Kubel | $6.67 M | MR | Sherrill | $1 M | |
| MR | Wuertz | $1 M | ||||
| B-C | Doumit | $3 M | MR | Mijares | $700 K | |
| B-IF | Carroll | $1 M | MR | Oliveros | $475 K | |
| B-IF | Plouffe | $500 K | LR | Swarzak | $500 K | |
| B-OF | Gomes | $1.25 M | ||||
| Nishioka | $3 M | Nathan | $2 M | |||
| Total | $72.32 M | $38.025 M |
That's a grand total of $110.345 million.
I know it's ambitious, and that I have seriously messed with the roster, and that so many moves are very easy to do on paper but would need to be handled very differently in real life...because it's impossible to just assume all of these moves and all of these types of moves will work out.
But this is exactly the kind of off-season I think the Twins need if they plan on being a truly competetive team not just in 2012 but beyond. Six of my nine free agents are off the books in just one season, the rest in two years. Nobody is blocked, and future payroll isn't bogged down.
Opening Day Lineup
Span, CF (L)
Prado, 2B (R)
Mauer, C (L)
Morneau, 1B (L)
Kubel, DH (L)
Valencia, 3B (R)
DeJesus, RF (L)
Barmes, SS (R)
Revere, LF (L)
It's still very lefty-heavy, but on the bench are three right-handed hitters (Plouffe, Gomes, Carroll) and a switch hitter (Doumit).
What do you think? Is this team better with these moves? Could it compete in 2012, and is it set up to compete in the future? Ultimately, is something like this feasible or is it just too ambitious?
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Comments
I'd keep Cuddy and let Kubel go
Two words: Morneau insurance.
If Justin Morneau is restricted to a DH role, Cuddy could be the full-time 1B and the front office could look for someone to play RF. They could promote Rene Tosoni or Joe Benson, or they could go for David deJesus. Simply put, Cuddy is far more versatile than Kubel, which is why I’d re-sign him.
which is fine.
But now you’re about $4 million over budget. What else would you change to make the (roughly) $110 limit?
I like it but..
I’d rather put Plouffe in right and not sign DeJesus, that gives us another righty with power that is cheap and has some upside, with that extra money I’d splurge on a starter that comes with less risk than Oswalt and his bad back. Ideally I’d like the Twins to go for Jackson cuz he’s young and throws hard which we don’t have in any of our starters. I don’t think we’d need to spend a ton in the bullpen if we added a good relaible starter. I really like the infield ideas but not sure how much it’d take to get Prado from the Braves. The part I really agree with in the infield is by looking for more offense from 2nd and getting a good fielder at least for ss.
Looks
Nice – filling the roster with vets who have something to prove (coming off an injury) and still have one more good contract in them if they perform. I was thinking about Oswalt. With the park being more pitcher friendly he could end up with double digit wins – I think just about everyone would take Oswalt if he finished with 12-13 wins and an era in the mid 3’s.
My only concern would be Kubel – I think you’re getting him for a bit cheap. Some team would be willing to offer a 2 yr @ 8 or 9M.
I do like starting Nishi at Rochester – an All Star call up wouldn’t be terrible, and he can gain some confidence playing at AAA. I’d still dump Mijares – cheap or not he’s been pretty terrible.
I'm not sure what Kubel will fetch.
Which is why I agreed with TwinsCentric’s evaluation of his market value. You might be right. It could be closer to 3/$24 than 3/$20.
Well done!
This is very reasonable, yet actually features some exciting names. I’m especially glad to see you want Oswalt. I’ve considered him too (even pondered if we should have traded for him when we needed a #1 pitcher halfway through 2010), but figured there’d be aversion amongst many because of his age and back problems. But I think given the circumstances we’re in now, and TF being great for pitchers, he’d be great.
However, I have one major problem with your otherwise sound roster:
I absolutely, positively don’t want Duensing as a starter anymore, and I think a complete team shakeup should address this. He’s a lot like Nick Blackburn in that he’s amazing for a period, but once hitters figure him out, he becomes like a batting practice pitcher at times (I’d especially like an “Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind” treatment when remembering him in the 2010 playoffs against NY). I think he’s much more effective as a reliever, and should be moved back there. As I’ve said a gazillion times, I’d like to pick up another mid-level starter like Edwin Jackson, but I don’t know how that affects your budget. What defense do you give for keeping Duensing in the rotation?
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Nov 4, 2011 1:46 AM EDT reply actions
As I said below,
I kept Duensing simply because the budget demanded a minimum level guy. An easy alternative is to forget about Oswalt, keep Pavano and Slowey in the rotation and shunt Duensing to the ’pen in place of Sherrill. That would actually save the Twins $500,000 by my numbers.
The issue with Edwin Jackson is that he’s going to command (according to the TwinsCentric handbook) about 3 years and $33 million. Jackson is good, but I’m not sure he’s that good over three seasons. So even if you pencil him in for about $10 million next year (in place of Oswalt, gaining $1 million in payroll flexibility) and then shuffle Duensing to the ‘pen in place of Sherrill (gaining $500K of flexibility), you’re only left with $1.5 million to find that fifth starter.
So you could just go with a guy like Hendriks, let him take his lumps. Or you could cut money somewhere else in order to pay Slowey ($3.5 million). There are options.
Touche
And now that you lay it out, I think non-tendering Slowey is just fine too. I think that episode needs to come to an end.
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Nov 4, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I like the offense
If Nishioka gets sent to the minors, Carroll is exactly who I’d want on the bench.
Pretty much all of the Twins’ lefties handle LHP well enough to not worry about the disparity.
I don’t like having Duensing in the rotation. He just can’t get righties out consistently. He’d be a great lefty option out of the pen, though.
Speaking of the pen, Perkins is about the only sure thing you have. If it’s one thing I hate, it’s a bullpen that blows hard earned leads. I think a solid bullpen has an effect on team mentality, as well. Why work hard to get a lead if the bullpen’s just going to blow it. I just think there are too many question marks there. I love the risks you took, I just don’t think you can take them all.
I hope Oliveros fulfills his potential
That would be a huge bonus. My only “meh” on the bullpen projected here is Manship.
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Nov 4, 2011 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I kept him on the 40-man
because the only other starters with experience who aren’t in the rotation would be Swarzak and Hendriks.
Pavano/Oswalt
Why are you trading an old, injury-prone, pitch-to-contact starter with a one-year contract in order to sign a more expensive old, injury-prone, pitch-to-contact starter who’s never pitched in the AL to a multi-year contract? Especially the year before the market on pitchers opens up? This is pretty much the opposite of a good idea.
I also don’t get why you would pay DeJesus $5.5m. Adding him may be an OK idea, but if that’s what he ends up going for, I’d rather run Plouffe out there.
A few things.
I wouldn’t call either Pavano or Oswalt “injury prone”. Pavano’s pitched a full-seasons worth of starts and innings for three years running. And Oswalt, 2011 was the first time he pitched fewer than 30 games since 2003.
Onto pretending that they’re the same pitcher – really? Pavano is a 2-3 WAR pitcher at his best. Oswalt is 3.5-4.5. The peripherals are so much better, starting with swinging strike %. Oswalt’s HR rate is lower. Pavano has one plus pitch at this point in his career, his changeup. Oswalt’s fastball is still a plus pitch, and his slider, curve and changeup are all still good pitches. Oswalt’s been an ace over the course of his career, Pavano’s never been that guy. Even if Oswalt isn’t who he used to be, he’s still a better pitcher than Pavano.
For a guy with Oswalt’s history, yeah, I’m happy giving him $11 million for his age 34 and 35 seasons.
As for DeJesus, maybe you can get away with $5 million. Again, I took this number from the TwinsCentric GM Handbook. For as disappointing of a season as he had in 2011, he was still a 2.2-win player, and is closer to a 3.5 to 4-win player when he plays like he’s played his entire career. Again, he’s another buy-low candidate, but $5.5 million for a three-win player is a fantastic contract. Hell, it’s a good contract for a two-win player.
DeJesus is a .284/.356/.421 career hitter with years of experience roaming the outfield. Replacing him with Plouffe would be a joke.
Pavano vs. Oswalt
It really depends on how much one thinks that last year was a good indicator of Oswalt’s current level of performance, or if you believe he is going to bounce back to his 2010 performance. In 2011, Oswalt had a swinging strike % of 8.0 – better than Pavano’s 7.1, but still below the 8.6% league average (plus he faced another pitcher 2-3 times a game). Additionally, Fangraphs rated his slider, curve and change-up as below-average in the runs-above-average stat. His fastball was still well above-average, though on average a full mile-per-hour slower than 2010 (91.4 vs. 92.6). Keith Law’s blurp yesterday about Oswalt indicated that there is some question that he’ll be able to still sit in the low 90s with his fastball after the back injury, and he will have to change his approach to succeed with a 88-90 mph fastball instead of 92-94. Finally, his home-run to fly-ball ratio was the lowest of his career, which may indicate some regression coming next year (though moving to Target Field instead of Philadelphia’s bandbox would help negate that)
The bottom line is that last season Oswalt wasn’t a 4.5 WAR pitcher, and there are legitimate questions that he will ever get back to that level of performance, due to injury or just getting older. I don’t think it is terribly obvious that Oswalt will be significantly better than Pavano next year; there is definitely the potential, but there is also risk that Oswalt will only pitch 130 innings again next season.
All that being said, I have been a HUGE Oswalt fan throughout his career, and I would definitely love to see him in a Twins uniform, even at this stage in his career. I just don’t think he makes us that much better.
Yeah,
it depends quite a bit on Oswalt’s back and whether 2011 was a sign of things to come. Obviously if there’s some real concern that he’ll only go 130 innings again, then something else has to happen because I wouldn’t be paying him $11 million for a 2.5-win season over that many innings.
Staying with Pavano probably means you could stay with Slowey (and his $3.5 M salary) in the rotation, which bumps Duensing back to the ’pen and makes Sherrill expendable. The salaries balance out.
it wouldn't be a joke!
The only thing I’d give him on Plouffe is D, since he’s another lefty who did not hit well last year, I gotta believe that Plouffe can become an excellent RF, he has the arm and speed to be a Cuddy type defense since unlike Cuddy they’ve kept him at ss which is one of the hardest positions of any I think he may become even better out there, besides it’s time to give him significant ab’s and see if he’s for real or a career bench player. Please remember that before Cuddy was moved to the outfield he was very inconsistent with the bat and fielding, once they moved him to right both improved drastically. The main point is the Twins would save almost 5 mil by giving one of our well groumed 1st rounders full time duty instead of wasting payroll on another wash up, they then could spend more money to get a legit free agent. As for the Oswalt move I agree that he has been better than Pavano while pitching in the A.L. but he is not enough of an upgrade to warrant the salary he’d take up.
If you think DeJesus is washed up, then that will definitely change how you do things.
But I don’t think that’s the case.
Maybe not washed up yet but I doubt he's going to get better at this point
To me it’s a waste of money to pay for a one year vet when we have a guy who either has upside or not, mainly I don’t like dejesus cuz he’s a lefty and over 30.
oops meant N.L
and Cuddy was also a former 1st rdr who had never stepped up till they gave him the opportunity in Right, people are being biased to say that he doesn’t deserve a shot and I really think he can be a better player than Cuddy is.
I haven't compared the two exactly
but I’m pretty sure Cuddy never had a better year than plouffe was having in AAA last year, it is possible for players to figure it out. Take Span for instance, once he was brought up put in the lineup and given the right amount of ab’s he played far different than his minor league #‘s showed, the minors are the training grounds the bigs are when it’s time to perform. I think he’s worth a shot, Cuddy’s got tons of interest and we’re not at a point where he helps us to the top like some other teams, we need to bide our time in the OF cuz that’s where are best prospects are, we need to go get some pitching that is not from our orginization.
They aren't the same pitcher.
But they have the same problems. And Oswalt has an additional problem, being that he’s spent his whole career in the NL. WAR doesn’t adjust for league.
It’s a sideways move that might be a slight upgrade, but is mostly luck-dependent. That’s not worth spending $13.5m on, especially when $11m of it is in what looks to be one of the deepest FA classes in recent memory.
League WAR adjustment
I never realized WAR didn’t handle that difference. Do you know how much league differences affect players’ WAR values? It seems like that would be difficult to quantify, though there may be a sufficient amount of interleague games to come up with a good approximation. Does the ballpark adjustment take any of that into account?
I'd be wary...
An injury-prone guy (Doumit) backing up two injury-prone players (M&M). But I’ll be optimistic and say that Mauer will be more durable next year. And I like what I’ve seen from Parmelee so far, at least at the plate.
And that rotation is scaring me. I’d rather see Duensing back in the ’pen to team with Swarzak as a long reliever. Then see if they can get some value for Blackburn. Keep Pavano (ship him in July if it comes to that). Of course, that only works if they can pick up two #2-3 starters at a good price.
Broxton is a big risk, but potentially great value. I wouldn’t mind them staying in-house and seeing if Perkins or Oliveros (yes, I went there) can hold down the closer spot instead. Frees up some money for one of the starting pitchers needed in the previous paragraph.
Blah, so many variables.
I understand the reticence toward Duensing.
I started with him in the bullpen as a specialist, but that plan meant keeping Slowey in the rotation which didn’t appeal to me as much as my alternatives.
But I was able to justify it by saying I had Swarzak available out of the bullpen, with Liam Hendriks and Jeff Manship in Rochester.
Good point though, I definitely have the same concern about Duensing.
Why do we need two #2-3 starters
We have six of them now. How about a #1?
What?
We have six #2-3 starters? Then why are the Twins so shitty?!
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller.
by Andrew Bryz-Gornia on Nov 5, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I think M & M had a little to do with that.
Plus we had no SS or 2Bman and Butera got 234 at bats. Lets face it, no the starting pitching was not great, but the offence SUCKED and we had no relief pitching. As bad a year as it was, the starting pitching might have been or best performers.
by b1 on Nov 6, 2011 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
Large turnover = good.
Bringing in a lot of cheapish vets and buy-low candidates seems smart to me, although the Twins are always inclined to stick with their guys. Changing Course: Bill Smith’s Big Offseason Challenge.
Especially with the savings, I’d be fine with a Revere/Span/Benson outfield. It’s potentially an offensive suck-hole, but has upside there and seems like a lock for amazing outfield defense and knocking off half a point of ERA for our pitchers.
I’d follow your plan on the infield and probably replace Valencia too. If Morneau retires, scoop up Jose Reyes!
Needs more grittiness.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 4, 2011 8:54 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
TwinsGeek's pick for shortstop
I’m an unabashed Punto fan, but I have a hard time objecting to it even when I look at it dispassionately – like the Geek said, he’s a great defender who gets on base and will be available at a low cost. Even his injury history isn’t a complete downside, because if he gets hurt you force Gardy to give Plouffe another extended look.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
He's got positive value even in a down year
If you trust UZR, he provides better than 1 WAR just on defense (career 18.1 UZR/150 at shortstop), so even replacement-level offense, which he usually bests at least slightly in bad years, makes him valuable at under a million bucks.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Absolutely.
Will he post a .388 OBP again? Definitely not. But if he can sit around .340, he’ll actually be a big upgrade for us.
I would take him back
but honestly why would this guy come back here? The coaches and players wanted him back. Management and the fan base basically kicked him out the door.
The large contract the Twins
signed him to Kicked him out the door. He didn’t live up to the 5Mil contract. Thats why he was let go. Punto is a great bench player but the Twins payed him like a star and that got people upset. I think he’d be welcomed back as a bench player.
by b1 on Nov 5, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
The very same people who are now mad at Mauer?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 5, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Love it
Especially trading for Prado. Any guesses on how much he would cost?
Bucky's 5th Quarter The best site for Badger news on the web!
If it made sense, it wouldn't be the BCS.
I agree
That would be a real solid improvement, especially if the price isn’t too high. Off the top of my head, Atlanta seems to be up to their eyeballs with good young pitching, so maybe they would be intrigued by a minor-league bat. Unfortunately, the Twins aren’t terribly deep in the upper minors. Hmmm… I’m curious what GM Jesse would use as trade-bait. I have to give this more study and thought…
I'd give them a choice of the following minor league outfielders
Nate Roberts
Erick Gonzalez
Brandon Roberts
Dustin Martin
I don’t think Rene Tosoni is untouchable in this scenario, either.
I like it...
I’d find a way to bring back Nick Punto and get him on the bench though…
Two small quibbles
I think the Twins are set to make Morneau the full time DH since he got his bell rung diving at first which might not let us have room for Kubel. I also think Duensing will be in the pen so maybe Hendriks takes the 5th spot?
Yeah, that would mean a big change in my philosophy.
If that comes to pass, I’ll have to take a new look at my blueprint.
Great work Jesse, Generally i like it I think it'd be very tough to get both Kubel, and DeJesus especially since they're both LH hitters
Onto the same club, any club for that matter, much less this Twins club.
However, other than Casilla i really like what you’ve done. This team would no doubt me competitive going into 2012.
Before simply ton-tendering Kevin Slowey I hope the Twins can work winter magic and shop
Slowey, Swarzak, Mijares, Plouffe, Slama/Casilla for guys like Reid Brignac, Adieny Hechavarria, Yunel Escobar, Tyler Pastornicky and others to play the SS position.
Basically My Blue print is Exactly as your’s especially with Carroll/ Gomes only I have Shoppach/ Pudge instead of Doumit. Also I have 1 of Paul Maholm or Hishashi Iwakuma coming aboard.
AND the big one, I have the Twins trading Slowey, Plouffe, Swarzak and Mijares to the Rays for Brignac and Adam Russell. AND i have Nathan instead of Broxton and likely Blackburn or Duensing in Bullpen.
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Nov 4, 2011 11:37 AM EDT reply actions
Absolutely not.
But doing a “this will actually happen” version is just too depressing.
The Twins can fix themselves. They just need to be bold.
by Jesse on Nov 4, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Jesse and I usually don't agree on much
and oddly enough I agree with most of the choices here, however a signing of Cuddyer makes signing some of the others mentioned a non-issue. A 2yr/$20m for Cuddy is reasonable but unfortunately the Twins only offered up 2yr/$16m so who do we have to slap around at the front office to get that deal done.
It provides backup depth for the INF positions if we need it, a natural clubhouse leader for the sudden influx of young outfielders coming up and a face that Twins fans associate with and don’t think of the DL all the time.
Liriano, the inconsistent constant!!!! He has become high risk/high reward, he either goes out and pitches 7 nearly scoreless innings, or he goes out and gets shelled for 6-7 runs in the first 3 innings and we lose the game before it gets started. I have said several times before, he has the skills but mentally he is very “delicate”.
I like the mention of Barmes @ 2 years because if Nishi hasn’t risen to the challenge in that time, then he isn’t going to!!
The closer role isn’t as dire as some may think if Perkins maintains his current level, he could step in if we don’t sign Nathan.
What it all comes down to is that if the Twins want to win in the future then they are going to need to shake things up and make moves that may not be popular with some of the fans. Morneau could very well be one of those moves, sadly enough I fear he may be headed down the path that Koskie took and the similarities are eerily familiar………both are good guys, both could hit, and both couldn’t overcome the misfortune dumped on them.
I really thought...
… after 2010 that Liriano could once again be our ‘true ace’. But after this season it’s now painfully obvious that he just doesn’t have the mental makeup to do so. : ?
by MoonlitKnight on Nov 4, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I would love the Prado trade
I think Doumit wants a starters role, Shoppach would be a more available option.
I would also want Duensing in the pen, I rather have Hendricks in the rotation, and I love what you want for the bench.
I want Buerhle or Edwin Jackson over Oswalt
by RaysOfHope on Nov 4, 2011 2:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I would keep Casilla in place of Carroll
I would also be concerned about Oswalt’s back. Other than that, I like it. The team needs to be revamped but I don’t know if the front office has the guts to do it.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
You had to bat a middle infielder #2
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Nov 4, 2011 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
ha!
Casilla batting #2 = good
Tolbert or Nishi batting #2 – not so good
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Nov 4, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
On a side note
Thanks for taking the time to do this Jesse – I’ve really enjoyed it, looking forward to playing armchair GM this weekend!
Love the possibilities!
This makes me sad.
The fun of cheering for a team of players who ARE the Twins is replaced by a gazillion interchangable parts all tinkered around a salary number. I recognize that this is the reality, but dumping Lexi and waving good-bye to Cuddy (obviously a VERY high probability) just saps my soul.
by Theo77 on Nov 4, 2011 8:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Well
HOW MANY chances have we given Lexi now? : /
by MoonlitKnight on Nov 4, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Casilla was fine after April last year.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
Assuming the hamstring thing was a fluke...
I don’t see much reason to upgrade there. He’s “good enough” for a MI. The other side of the MI (whichever he isn’t playing) needs to be upgraded, and there are other more significant issues that deserve attention first.
by spanspanspan on Nov 5, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, saying goodbye is hard but
Hughes,Plouffe,Hendricks,Benson,Tosoni,Revere,Parmelee are all new guys that have come-up through the Twins Minor league system.
by b1 on Nov 5, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Where does Airwolf fit in???
"We're all in this together. Except me - I'm retiring because you guys f*%King suck, and there's no God-D@mned way I'm wasting any more of my summers traveling cross country with this group of fail. Bill Smith can suck my c@%k!"
-Actual quote from John Gordon via montanatwinsfan
NOOOO!!!!!!
No making my screenname obsolete!!!!! Other than that… not bad. My epic, and caffeine induced roster rant will be forthcoming. Just giving everyone fair warning here, since I like to think outside the box, and sometimes, I find reality to be stifling.
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Nov 6, 2011 12:59 AM EDT reply actions
I would keep Casilla
He’s just coming around. He was the best player on the Twins for a month or two in 2011.
And with Nishioka, I’d wait until spring training to see where he’s at, then make the decision whether to stick him on the team or AAA.
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
Yes.
"We're all in this together. Except me - I'm retiring because you guys f*%King suck, and there's no God-D@mned way I'm wasting any more of my summers traveling cross country with this group of fail. Bill Smith can suck my c@%k!"
-Actual quote from John Gordon via montanatwinsfan
No.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 6, 2011 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
No.
At least not until midseason, depending on where we sit then.
I like most of this plan. I don’t think keeping Pavano helps anything. I’d like to go for Jackson, but I doubt we can afford him. I don’t like dumping Slowey, but we probably don’t have a choice on that one. I’d probably keep Nishioka as the reserve MI. Or shift him back to 2b, which was what he was projected to be by MLB scouting. I think w/ Barmes @ SS we’d have the potential for a solid MI w/ Plouffe in reserve. It might also free up some cash for a Jackson splash.
by Shawn Gillogly on Nov 6, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
What would you expect to get back at this point?
I agree that Liriano should be traded, because they definitely burned any chance of resigning him this year. But it seems like there’s little reason to try to do so now, unless some team offers a lot more value than I’d expect.
Yes.
There is nothing that can be gained by trading Liriano now, who is still the only pitcher with the skill set to be a front-line guy.
If the Twins are going to trade him, and I don’t necessarily think they should, they need to let him play and regain some of his value first.
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