Bill Smith Fired As Twins GM, Replaced By Terry Ryan On Interim Basis
by Jon Marthaler on Nov 7, 2011 4:02 PM EST
in News
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PrintIn a surprising move, the Twins have fired general manager Bill Smith. Former GM Terry Ryan, who has remained with the organization on a special assistant basis since being replaced by Smith in October 2007, will take over the job on an interim basis.
Just last week, the Twins denied the Baltimore Orioles permission to meet with VP of Player Personnel Mike Radcliff, and were rumored to be bringing former assistant GM Wayne Krivsky back as a special assistant to Smith. As it turns out, those moves were part of a bigger strategy that sees longtime employee Smith lose his job.
Twins fans had not been happy with several of Smith's moves, chief among them the decision to trade shortstop J.J. Hardy to Baltimore following an injury-plagued 2010 season, despite not having a major league-ready shortstop to replace him. Smith also was pilloried for trading up-and-coming young catcher Wilson Ramos to Washington for reliever Matt Capps in the summer of 2010, despite Capps being a middling reliever and closer and Ramos being the insurance policy for Joe Mauer. Both of those moves went on to backfire spectacularly, as the Twins were treated to the comedy batting stylings of Drew Butera and the incompetent fielding of Trevor Plouffe and Tsuyoshi Nishioka for much of 2011.
There will be a press conference at 4:30 pm to announce Ryan's appointment. I'm sure we'll have more following that.
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Did you write most of it in advance
so that you’d be prepared for when it happened, like how some writers compose obituaries while the person is still alive?
by missles on Nov 7, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He is currently working on his "Twins sign Albert Pujols" story
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
Nope.
It was all madly typed in less than five minutes.
by Jon Marthaler on Nov 7, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
GREAT DECISION LONG OVERDUE
Yippeeee
Yoenis Cespedes
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15469
^ the bottom video ^
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Nov 8, 2011 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
Well.
Wow. That’s…awesome. He made some really good moves, but man, those bad moves were REALLY bad. Erm…good luck, Mr. Smith.
YAY!
WordUpThome: BOOM, HAND HUGGED
Tweet me! @jessicann713
Yeah
I’m surprised too. Hard to see anyone lose their job, of course. Good luck to him in his future endeavors. It’ll be interesting to see what Ryan does now. Complete rebuild or does he bring back Cuddy and/or Kubel/Nathan hoping for one last (health permitting) shot?
speculation as to who will replace
Terry Ryan is interim.
BUT WHO’S NEXT???
1. Could still be Ryan.
2. Toronto BlueJays Assistant GM Tony LaCava
3. Rangers Assistant Thad Levine
4. Dodgers Assistant Logan White
Or we become the next Orioles.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 7, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Better not be Antony
He would be another Bill Smith except not as good with contracts. That would almost make me cry.
pretty sure it will be Krivsky
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Very surprised
But quite happy.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
FIRE TERRY RYAN!!!!
First to say it
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Nov 7, 2011 4:06 PM EST reply actions 13 recs
Wow...
…so the fans were….RIGHT?!?!?!
"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series
by WindyCityTwinsFan on Nov 7, 2011 4:07 PM EST reply actions
HOLY S%&#!!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 7, 2011 4:09 PM EST reply actions
Yeah, I have to double-check the newsfeeds to make sure I'm not reading about "off-season ball"
http://www.twincities.com/twins/ci_19283059
… can’t say I was a big Smith fan, but the move surprises me. I thought the front office was pretty entrenched. Glad to see they the move.
I thought they'd take into account all the injuries this year
And cut him some slack, but I guess the bigger payroll + last place = heads will roll.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 7, 2011 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe demoted and not "fired?"
Going forward, we intend to have additional discussions with Bill about an ongoing role within the organization.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 7, 2011 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, he was more on the bean-counting end
Contracts, negotiations, etc. That’s why I never felt great about him being up top. I liked Terry Ryan because he came from a scouting background.
Dollar sign on the muscle
Most important job of a GM is valuing talent
nowdays
i think it’s more about evaluating the talent of the people you put around you in the front office
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
he'll be serving hot dogs in center field
maybe taking tickets at gate 14, but nothing more than that
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Nov 7, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'm hoping the Twins remain loyal enough to him to keep him with the organization in some capacity.
He might not have made a good GM, but he did good enough in his past obligations to get the shot. IMO I’m hoping he is more demoted than fired.
"They fought together as brothers-in-arms. They died together and now they sleep side by side. To them we have a solemn obligation." - Admiral Chester A. Nimitz
by hawkeyeforever on Nov 7, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Don't worry
He’ll be in charge of concessions at Target Field.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
by Jessy S on Nov 7, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
GM's do make a ton of money
Not as much as players but its not like he’s going to starve. Four years of GM salary plus severance is a lifetime of earnings for most people. “Loyalty” sounds like a nice thing to say, but the organization has already compensated Mr. Smith very well.
Is this a joke?
I can never tell with you, Jon.
But seriously, I did not expect this. And Yesssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!! Awesome.
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Holy crap on a cracker
I am totally flummoxed and excited by this development.
by Anjemon on Nov 7, 2011 4:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
HOLY S%&#!!!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 7, 2011 4:12 PM EST reply actions
I'm quite surprised
by this. Not what they generally do. I’d like to see them go outside the organization, but given the other moves referenced with Krivsky and Radcliff (who I presume will get the job), it doesn’t seem likely
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
Maybe they'd add some assistants from outside the org.
You know, ones who don’t treat statistics as black magic. But thats unlikely.
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
i almost yelled "f yeah" in class.
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Wow
Well, I guess that’s good news. Totally unexpected.
Poor Billy
You, sir, are a mouthful.
by Att. Bob Loblaw on Nov 7, 2011 4:23 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
This is from Joe Scmidt
Just talked to Bill Smith #Twins He cited philosophical differences. Found out Friday, finished details today. Has been offered a job w/Twins
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
* Joe Schmit
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
Hopefully his new job with the twins
will be below TC Bear on the organizational hierarchy.
by 6 of 10 interviewed on Nov 7, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
More
Smith is taking a month off before he decides if he will stay with #Twins. Called Terry Ryan best friend in baseball and best baseball mind.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
OH WOW, OH WOW, OH WOW
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 7, 2011 4:27 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
A little birdie...
told me that Wayne Krivski will take over as GM as soon as Terry Ryan cleans up the Twins house a bit.
And one of those first moves
Will be to convince Justin Morneau to retire. I like him as a baseball player, but he hasn’t been the same since his concussion.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
psst
See if you can get Jessy to give you odds. Take him for all you can.
Not biting
Just predicting.
Seriously, his concussion issues raise a red flag. It isn’t running into another fielder or base runner that would concern me. It is taking a routine dive and experiencing new concussion issues. That is exactly what happened with Morneau, and the Twins would be better off if he retired because it would free up some cash that used to go to him, and it isn’t like we don’t have options at 1st. Right now, Chris Parmelee doesn’t need to be in Triple A unless it is to play as a right fielder to get some work in at that position.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Ugh
I don’t think Parmalee is the player you think he is, but I’d be happy to be wrong about that.
But what’s wrong with Justin at DH? Why would you prefer not to have one of the best bats not be there? Sure, he’s expensive, but guys who hit like him tend to be.
I have said his next concussion will end his career!
…I now wonder if it was his last and they just haven’t yet realized it.
I rather he just retire
Right now a pitched ball hitting his helmet would be more lethal than Denard Span’s rear bumper hitting his rear bumper in the Twins parking lot.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I'm with Jessy S
M & M are killing this team not Capps, Plouffe, Casillia, Blackburn or Slowey. Sure, they could have played better, but it’s the loss of your third and forth hitter that sunk this team and all the $$$$$$ they make. I’m not blaming any one it’s just the way it is. They got played big $$$$ and did nothing. We can’t have another year of paying big $$$$ and getting little to nothing for it.
by b1 on Nov 8, 2011 7:45 AM EST up reply actions
Well, Joe Mauer has a couple more seasons
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
One injury-plagued year and you think he's almost done?
Wow. Just wow.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I love Morneezey
hopefully he is healthy in 2012… need that basher in the middle of the line-up.
x
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 7, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Wat
Bucky's 5th Quarter The best site for Badger news on the web!
If it made sense, it wouldn't be the BCS.
by John Veldhuis on Nov 7, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
FIRE WAYNE KRIVSKI!
First to say that too
Get on the ball people, I’m cleaning house here!
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Nov 7, 2011 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
FIRE MIKE RADCLIFF!
Just in case.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
dang
beat me to it
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Nov 7, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
FIRE SOMEONE ELSE!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 7, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Fire Less Cowbell, more'neau!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Just some Twinkie Town poster
Who posts his meds.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I wonder which one of us is closer to being "fired" from TT, me or you?
:P
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 7, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
hopefully they hire wayne krivsky instead
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Krivsky
Thanks for the spell check… we need more guys like you on TwinkieTown.
He can't even capitalize properly.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 7, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
i am the ee cummings of the internet
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
by fetch9 on Nov 7, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
+1
for mildly obscure poet reference. Are you by any chance Kevin Slowey by day?
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
Mildly obscure?
I though ee cummings was fairly well known.
That said, it made me chuckle.
Unless you are Robert Frost, I think most poets are fairly obscure to the general public.
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
I'm fairly well read and the only reason I know who ee cummings is, is because of a movie
"They fought together as brothers-in-arms. They died together and now they sleep side by side. To them we have a solemn obligation." - Admiral Chester A. Nimitz
by hawkeyeforever on Nov 7, 2011 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
I know of ee cummings from the ridiculous free form style.
No caps or punctuations, and no traditional poetic mechanisms.
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
Announcement
“I am pleased to announce my candidacy for the Minnesota Twins General Manager position. I will be unavailable to them on Fridays, when I am committed to providing content for SB Nation’s Twinkie Town weblog and an alarming number of adult-oriented fetish websites, but I have given them my cell phone number so they can leave me a message if anything comes up on those days. I look forward to my interview and have bought a shirt and pants.” —-RandBall’s Stu
by RandBall's Stu on Nov 7, 2011 4:31 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
I thought about applying
But if they’re going to require that I wear pants….. no deal.
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Nov 7, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We all should've known this
an alarming number of adult-oriented fetish websites
A man doesn’t write Pavstache fiction the way you do without a substantial amount of experience in mustache porn.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
FIRE STEW
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
Bill Smith will be on 1500 ESPN in a few minutes
FYI
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
Holy Schmoley!
I honestly didn’t see this coming. I completely agree with it, but I did not see it coming. Wow!
Wow, great news for this once proud organization
Hopefully this will be like when Steve Jobs came back to Apple in 1997. Maybe he can somehow get Wilson Ramos back, or else invent an iRamos.
Do you want to know the terrifying truth, or do you want to see me sock a few dingers?
by natetheskate on Nov 7, 2011 4:35 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Agreed.
All we need now is an iTwinkieTown.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Twins execs must read Twinkie Town
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Nov 7, 2011 4:35 PM EST reply actions
lol
Honestly that LaVelle interview with Jim Pohlad was pretty grim. Little did we know it was just a ruse to disguise the front office’s ravenous absorption of Twins blog advice
Do you want to know the terrifying truth, or do you want to see me sock a few dingers?
It's ruse you big dumb idiot!
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
by d-mac on Nov 7, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And Nick Blackburn is the Pirate King
Steve Goodman lives.
by twinsbrewer on Nov 7, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If they did
Gardy would have been gone following our flame-out vs the Yankees in the 2010 ALDS.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Naw
They would have read your fanpost and promoted him to Field Marshall.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 7, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
I seriously have thought on more than one occasion one of you might have been Bill Smith
"We're all in this together. Except me - I'm retiring because you guys f*%King suck, and there's no God-D@mned way I'm wasting any more of my summers traveling cross country with this group of fail. Bill Smith can suck my c@%k!"
-Actual quote from John Gordon via montanatwinsfan
What a great day
I am crying tears of joy. Btw, Andy McPhail is available….. Just Sayin’
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Nov 7, 2011 4:38 PM EST reply actions
Can You Imagine
What McPhail could do with a budget? Look at what he did without one?
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Nov 7, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
He got spoiled in Chicago and Baltimore...
I was thinking that he wouldn’t know what to do with $12M in discretionary funds this off-season.
I'll take credit for this
since I pointed out in my offseason plan that Bill Smith didn’t have an offseason plan. Offseason plans rule!
OTOH, Bill now does have an offseason plan, starting with answering the question, “Did you complete your weekly job search requirements as required for unemployment insurance?”
The only stat that counts is W
by wayback on Nov 7, 2011 4:39 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
nice
I’m going to use that one if you don’t mind
Do you want to know the terrifying truth, or do you want to see me sock a few dingers?
After the interview with ESPN 1500
I’ll bet Bill Smith will drink tons of beer.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Bye Bye Billy
"We're all in this together. Except me - I'm retiring because you guys f*%King suck, and there's no God-D@mned way I'm wasting any more of my summers traveling cross country with this group of fail. Bill Smith can suck my c@%k!"
-Actual quote from John Gordon via montanatwinsfan
I've Never Seen
So much joy in TwinkieTown
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Nov 7, 2011 4:42 PM EST reply actions
Its like we won the next best thing behind a pennant...
"We're all in this together. Except me - I'm retiring because you guys f*%King suck, and there's no God-D@mned way I'm wasting any more of my summers traveling cross country with this group of fail. Bill Smith can suck my c@%k!"
-Actual quote from John Gordon via montanatwinsfan
I'm all emotional
I’m alternating between tears of joy, and maniacal laughter.
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Nov 7, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder how they did it.
My vote is they gave him this coffee mug this morning
"We're all in this together. Except me - I'm retiring because you guys f*%King suck, and there's no God-D@mned way I'm wasting any more of my summers traveling cross country with this group of fail. Bill Smith can suck my c@%k!"
-Actual quote from John Gordon via montanatwinsfan
by Go Twins! on Nov 7, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I Think
It was a voicemail…. "Welcome to Dumpsville… population…YOU!!!
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Nov 7, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I think he got the pink slip virus.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Unless you're Bill Smith
In which case, you get fired.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 7, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
I imagined this is how he was informed.
By way of a Bro-dway production.
“Happy trails Smithy (blowjobs)!” “happy trails!”
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
Bud Grant!
He’ll toughen up that soft Joe Mauer.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Bill Smith has already outlawed heaters
See: Every 85 mph fastball throwing pitcher the Twins have.
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
by Go Twins! on Nov 7, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
x
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
by urluckyday on Nov 7, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Terry Ryan's first move!!!
The Twins have come to an agreement with Alexi Casilla and have traded him to the Rockies for JC Romero…
Also,
The Twins have traded Drew Butera to the Nation of the Dominican Republic for Luis Castillo…
Both redemption moves on Mr. Ryan’s part as the only poor decisions he made as a GM… He stepped down not long after this.
Not sure if serious
Neither of these moves were really that bad. Romero was going to get expensive so they managed to get a decent prospect for him. And while at the time the Castillo trade was not that good, in hindsight with how fast his skill set dropped after the trade it wasn’t that bad either.
"They fought together as brothers-in-arms. They died together and now they sleep side by side. To them we have a solemn obligation." - Admiral Chester A. Nimitz
by hawkeyeforever on Nov 7, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
Just got this email from the Twins
November 7, 2011 – The Minnesota Twins announced today that Terry Ryan has assumed the role of interim General Manager, replacing Bill Smith, who had been hired to replace Ryan in 2007. The team won two division titles under Smith, and lost a third on a one-game playoff in 2008, but fell to last place this year with a 63-99 record amid a slew of injuries to core players.
Ryan, who has spent more than 28 years in the Twins organization, had moved into an advisory role in 2007 but returns now to the role of General Manager, a post he held for 13 years (1994-2007), twice winning Executive of the Year honors.
It’s officially official.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 7, 2011 4:48 PM EST reply actions
...While Bill Smith won the executive of the toilet award in 2011.
Fixed.
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
Got it too
Then joined up on the thread here
by twinscrazy_german on Nov 7, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions
Least Favorite Bill Smith Moments: Post them here.
Mine was that one time he traded Wilson Ramos for HandiCapps.
"We're all in this together. Except me - I'm retiring because you guys f*%King suck, and there's no God-D@mned way I'm wasting any more of my summers traveling cross country with this group of fail. Bill Smith can suck my c@%k!"
-Actual quote from John Gordon via montanatwinsfan
Oooh Good one
Turning Johan Santana into Carlos Gomez into JJ Hardy into Jim Hoey
If he’d stopped at JJ Hardy….
"We're all in this together. Except me - I'm retiring because you guys f*%King suck, and there's no God-D@mned way I'm wasting any more of my summers traveling cross country with this group of fail. Bill Smith can suck my c@%k!"
-Actual quote from John Gordon via montanatwinsfan
Matt Garza was my favorite Twins prospect ...
He had attitude, a mid 90’s fastball… at the time I couldn’t believe that we would make that trade straight up for a future DH… on top of that our starting SS ~ yuck.
Bad
Garza, Bartlett, Ramos, The Mauer Extension (waiting til he exploded), Santana, Hardy, the Nishioka Signing, Butera rather than Morales, Brendan Harris Extension, Keeping Capps
Good
Thome, Span Extension, Pavano, Patience with Liriano, Keeping Perkins, Not giving big money to Rauch, Guerrier
Glad to see him gone.
Sorry, was thinking of a different guy
You sir, are a mouthful.
by Att. Bob Loblaw on Nov 7, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Turning Garza and Bartlett into Lester Oliveros, a player TBD and not paying Delmon Young
Also an amazing talent disappearing act.
by 6 of 10 interviewed on Nov 7, 2011 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
Brendan Harris
I was going to add that they got Brendan Harris as well in the Garza trade. I only realize now that he is not playing for the Twins anymore. And he wasn’t very good either. That was a horrible trade.
Getting Jim Thome.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 7, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
My least favorite Bill Smith moment
Signing Brendan Harris to that expensive contract right before 2010 season. Hands down.
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
It affected his return on Hardy
He threw Harris in and downgraded one of the arms he got back.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
really?
not trading away a potential all star catcher for a shitty and expensive middle reliever? or trading who would be our best pitcher for a shitty corner outfielder who can’t hit nor field? or getting nothing back for one of the best starting pitchers in baseball? or the nick blackburn extension?
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Right, so much failure, so much destruction, so much pain.....
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
although
I have this sinking feeling that Delmon going to develop into the hitter he was always projected to be in Detroit.
Which is not to say that I mind giving up on waiting for him.
Streaky
I think he is what he is. He sucks in April and May. He starts heating up in June. He has a month or two of hitting well. And he cools off at the end.
We saw that pattern last year. Also, Gardy never hit him ahead of Joe and Justin. He might have done about as well as he did in Detroit if they did that. 103 OPS+ That’s just above average. When you add in his defense, he wasn’t even replacement level in Detroit.
That said, he did have a very good 2010 (124 OPS+), and he is not old. So he could get back there again. But it won’t be Detroit that fixes him. Odds are, his best year was 2010 with the Twins.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
That's probably right
But I’m in a pessimistic mood, apparently.
His defense is what kills him most.
You could take his bat as an asset if his fielding was even average. The fact is that he was the worst OF on a Twins team that included Kubel and Cuddyer. Yes, Delmon has a strong and accurate throwing arm, but that’s all he has. He might have the least range of any regular OF in the majors (especially lateral range), and his glovework is spotty at best. The only catches he makes are catches that anyone else can also make.
Any GM looking to make Delmon a part of their team’s future needs to plan on him moving to DH soon.
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I for one can't wait to see him try to chase down Mauer's fly ball to left every other at bat.
Should be fun.
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"spotty at best" is overrating him
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
Every once in a while, he made a good play
I thought that’s what he meant by “spotty”
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
He has a very good arm, I wouldn't run on him
His problem was always getting to the ball in the first place… and a good arm is wasted in LF.
I would say he has a strong arm
Not the most accurate arm, but a strong arm. Like you said, his problem was getting to the ball. He had a hard time judging it. At first, I thought it was the Dome, which was really tough on left fielders. But it was everywhere. And even when he had a bead on the ball, he took these little Herschel Walker steps after it, not the full sprinters’ stride. He was not a slow guy except when chasing a fly ball.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Wow, was not expecting that
But it’s fine with me. On a side note it kinda sucks that I only have one other Twins fan (my dad) that cares about this. After hearing this he is the only other fan that I know who cares enough for me to call.
"They fought together as brothers-in-arms. They died together and now they sleep side by side. To them we have a solemn obligation." - Admiral Chester A. Nimitz
yeah I was looking for people to tell/text
but I go to school in Kansas so I don’t exactly have a ton of people to talk to about Twins news
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
I'm so happy right now
"We're all in this together. Except me - I'm retiring because you guys f*%King suck, and there's no God-D@mned way I'm wasting any more of my summers traveling cross country with this group of fail. Bill Smith can suck my c@%k!"
-Actual quote from John Gordon via montanatwinsfan
I find this surprising given that the Twins only had one bad season.
-But it’s not a shock.
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They normally just don't do big changes
But I like it.
Just look at the moves he's made
who knows how many years he set this franchise back
Mikael Granlund: The Great Hope
by NorthernStar on Nov 8, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not disagreeing with you.
I believe he has been a bad GM for the Twins, especially given that he replaced a guy in Terry Ryan who did a lot more with a lot less. This move is just a bit out of character for the Twins organization.
The Twins usually take a “wait and see” approach with everything, so I expected them to give Smith another year to turn it around and then maybe make this move in 2012. This is far more reactionary than normal for them. It actually feels a bit like a “big market team” kind of move, with the Twins trying to show their fans that they are serious about winning and winning ASAP.
WFTDA Championship Tournament: Minnesota RollerGirls vs Charm City Roller Girls - Friday 11/11 at 3:00 pm central. Broadcast online for free at derbyaccess.com
Which is exactly what we want from the Twins
The Twins are no longer the small market team they used to be. They are growing up
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
I think he got his wait and see
It’s not all about results on the field. You can argue that Gardy did more with less in those years. But when you think of the talent he let leave or sent away, and you consider what might have been if he had hung onto some of it, you have to say he did an awful job. It’s a minor miracle that we won anything while giving up Hunter, Santana, Garza, Bartlett, and Ramos and not getting any lasting value in return.
A GM should be judged on cost/benefit, not on field play. Bill Smith cost this franchise some of its best talent and did not reaped few benefits from it.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 8, 2011 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Man oh man I suck at editing
Delete the “did not”. ugh
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I'd bet money
This opens the door for the return of Little Nicky Punto, and his dirty World Series ring.
just what we need
Is another infielder who can’t hit.
Tolbert has a -0.8 career Defensive WAR
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
Tolbert was average to below average defensive back up.
No glove, no bat= below replacement level. Besides Punto can get on base (somewhat) and play outstanding defense.
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he actually hit well this year
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
He did.
A .388 OBP, which is unthinkable.
I wonder how much of that is because he was batting right in front of the pitcher.
Quite a bit, probably.
However while Punto doesn’t make contact well, or hit for power, he has had very good walk rates throughout his career.
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true
I’ve got no problem with him as a backup infielder. I just think we can do better for an everyday player.
Well, in theory.
Yes, he's probably the best utility infielders in the game.
And that is where his value is maximized. Just try to explain that to Gardy, though.
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Gardy knows he's the "best infielder in the game"
it’s that darn “utility” part he doesn’t get.
JIM JAMS BUSINESS IS MASHING TATERS, AND BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!
by MashinTaters on Nov 7, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
That's the problem with him
He hits well for a while, then he hit’s like my dead grandma for awhile.
Bill Smith gets his walking papers
Here’s a timeline of terrible moves made by Bill Smith. Welcome back Terry Ryan! http://duckduckgrayduck.wordpress.com/2011/11/07/bill-smith-gets-his-walking-papers/
by DuckDuckGrayDuck on Nov 7, 2011 5:33 PM EST reply actions
One thing can be deduced from the title picture of that article,
This moves have reduced the extra chin average of the front office.
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Except
Humber for Rauch was a good move (even with Humber’s partial awakening this year).
And I didn’t think Nishi got to keep the $5 mil.
Doesn't matter if Nishi gets to keep the $5mil.
It’s still an expenditure for the team.
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well yeah
But the link said they are paying him $15 mil, which is wrong.
by amiller92 on Nov 7, 2011 7:27 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I think it means it's effectively like they are paying him 15m, not 10m.
Which is right, because that’s how much he costs.
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So, $15mil over 3 years for a -2WAR player is horribly bad.
The Twins should just see if they can buy out the rest of his contract and send him back to Japan
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um
I think maybe see what he can do when fully healthy first? I mean, we’re paying him and all.
by amiller92 on Nov 7, 2011 9:01 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
He looked utterly lost at everything he did when he WAS healthy.
He couldn’t make contact, couldn’t hit for power, refused to take walks, was afraid of the baseball when he was in the field, has no arm, and isn’t very fast, despite thinking he is (poor stolen base ratio). He cost us over 2 wins. The only way he gets any better is if he goes down to the minors and re-learns baseball. And we’d have paid $15mil for a -2WAR season, a AAA season, and then possibly one year of a replacement level major leaguer. NOT WORTH IT.
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Its $9M for 3 years... team option of $4M for the 4th year with a 250k buyout
Certainly not wisely spent money, but its less than we spent on Punto for the previous three years.
From the press conference
Krivsky is back in the organization as a pro scout and advisor, so that is now official.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
Is there a video of the press conference online anywhere?
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 7, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
I think it was streaming on the Twins site when it happened
Can’t find any replays yet.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
I'm glad Smith is gone...
But I’m not sold on Ryan replacing him. With the obvious caveat of him being “interim,” I’m worried about this.
I’m excited to see some better youngsters in our system again, but I’m worried that Ryan will go back to finding aging journeymen to fill holes instead of taking a shot on someone else.
Granted when Smith took those shots, he missed, but Ryan didn’t seem to want to take any of those shots. Of course, the payroll he has now is very different than what he worked with before.
I need a clever or funny signature, please send me suggestions.
right now
We probably need some aging journeymen to bridge the gap.
We need some gap fillers.
(That’s what she said!)
But this is going to be a rebuilding year, and we need some fillers. Dejesus, Doumit, Barmes, and Derek Lee anyone?
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Sounds good to me,
though Lee could be expensive.
They were ducking that question like crazy during the press conference
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
I want to non-tender Matt Tolbert, too
FIRE ME!!!!!
Tolbert is a minor league free agent
You don’t have to nontender him if you DFA him. That’s done.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
My guess
One side thought the Twins could compete next year if they brought back Cuddy, stay healthy and revamp the pen. The other side thinks the Twins can’t and should do a rebuild while lowering payroll and bringing in cheap vets that can be replaced (trade bait) when our young guys (Benson, Hendriks, Dozier, Gutierez (sp) maybe Bromberg and Tosoni) are ready for call-ups and build for 2014.
Simple
The Twins want not-shitty players
Billy got them shitty players
Mikael Granlund: The Great Hope
by NorthernStar on Nov 8, 2011 12:44 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So if
Bill Smith has “philosophical differences” with the rest of the organization, I hope part of that difference is about not selling your talent for relief pitching. Because I’ve been half-expecting to see a story about how we traded Aaron Hicks for a AA reliever who has no arms and pitches with his feet, but somehow got 3 saves last year.
by 6 of 10 interviewed on Nov 7, 2011 5:42 PM EST reply actions
Applications being accepted now:
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/bus/2690535448.html
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
by Go Twins! on Nov 7, 2011 5:43 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Yup, that's legit.
I loved the line about the training staff, though. I lol’d at it. Whomever posted this deserves a friggin cookie.
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Terry Ryan says the payroll will be around $100 M
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
That's a little lower than previous estimates, isn't it?
I’m less excited for next season now.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 7, 2011 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
About 10-15 less
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
I have confidence that a $100M Terry Ryan team is better than a $150M Bill Smith team
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
by Go Twins! on Nov 7, 2011 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Just a quick reminder
Ryan’s last three Twins teams were his 3 highest payroll teams and they sandwiched two 3rd place finishes between that 06 team.
That's what I figured.
I never believed TwinsGeek’s 115-120mil estimation for a minute. The ticket sales expectations for next have to be pretty low after this past season.
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Wasn't there an 85% season ticket renewal rate?
It’s not like fans are abandoning the team in droves.
And as soon as the team is winning again the place will be sold out
So why not invest the $10-15M more and try and win next year
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
Those are just season tickets.
The hit is going to come from single game ticket sales. Season ticket holders and purchasers of single game tickets have very different preferences as a whole.
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Makes me wonder
If the “philisophical differences” have less to do with Smith’s track record than his spending. It’s possible the team just plans on eating Target Field money while they can (for most new stadiums, about six years.) I hope not and that they’re actually committed to winning. But if they aren’t they’d certainly fit within the attitude parameter of most sports franchises . . .
Steve Goodman lives.
Maybe
but the Twins attendance this year – which is the basis for next years payroll – was second in the AL and well over 3mil. This smells like Pohlad penny pinching again.
I bet it's a complex non-linear equation where
the previous years attendance and the expectations for the next year’s attendance are the coefficients. Newness of the stadium is wearing off, along with the previous year’s horrid record and the slim likelihood of us competing next year are factors in the next years expectations.
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Don't forget the mosquitoes flapping their wings over Lake Minnetonka
… non-linear equations always have those types of things. :-)
I'd be surprised to see too big of a hit unless they're terrible again
A .500 ballclub will come close to selling out for the season. There isn’t as much competition for sports entertainment in the summer. I suppose people could go watch the Lynx instead.
I cheered so loud
My mom just shouted from the other room “Did the Twins sign Cuddy?!” I yeled back “NO! THEY FINALLY FIRED BILL SMITH!!!!!!!”
"I don't really give a f*** and my excuse is that I'm young, and I'm only getting older somebody shoulda told ya" ~Drake (I'm On One)
It amused several people when I told them this.
Even my non-internet friends who I told laughed even though most of them hate baseball :(
"I don't really give a f*** and my excuse is that I'm young, and I'm only getting older somebody shoulda told ya" ~Drake (I'm On One)
by twinsgirl197 on Nov 7, 2011 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
That's what he studied in school? For realz?
Cause that would explain alot actually.
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Pedantic explanation
What used to happen was that if you entered “french military victories” and clicked “I’m feeling lucky” (which just leads you to the top result for your search term), you got this page: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/victories.html
That site is no longer the top hit, so it doesn’t work anymore. But it never worked when you clicked the “Google Search” button.
Explaining Google… more fun than my real job.
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 7, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
I know how that worked! I'm not stupid, duh! :P
The Chuck Norris one is awesome too.
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I didn't mean to imply that you are
I’m dealing with a really ugly software bug that’s kicking my brain’s ass right now. Explaining trivial things makes me feel smarter.
Have you searched for “Do a barrel roll”? Only works with “modern” browsers…
by ColossusOfRhode on Nov 7, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Nice.
As bad as this sounds, I’m happy the Twins fired GM Bill Smith. I’m sure he’s a nice guy, but he was terrible at his job.
Follow me on twitter: @tara_novotny
pretty sure that's the nicest thing that's been said about him in this thread
I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter
I come home from work to this wonderful news.
I wish him the best in his future endeavors as long as they have absolutely nothing to do with roster decisions of the Twins. The best possible thing that could have happened this offseason just did.
True
The second best thing will likely happen tomorrow when the Twins inform Gardy that his services are no longer required as well.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
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Some nationwide ambulance chaser...
…has ads on the back of buses all over town that say
HURT IN AN ACCIDENT? ( or something like that )
1-800-ASK-GARY
Whenever I see one, I think FIRE GARY!!!!!
Whenever I see the sentiment posted here, I think 1-800-FIRE-GARY!!!!!
I’ve decided to start counting your predictions, and compare them to what actually happened. I have now started an Excel spreadsheet with your name on it. It is on my desktop.
by Brady Eyestone on Nov 9, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
Well didn't happen today
But we are closer to the end of Ron Gardenhire’s rule as Twins Manager than we are to the beginning.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Maybe after this season. But, I bet he doesn’t get fired for awhile.
by Brady Eyestone on Nov 9, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks probably true
But only because it will be ten years in January and I doubt he’ll make it, or want to make it, to twenty.
Bill Smith demonstrated the fine line between continuity and boys’ club. He just wasn’t cut out for the job, but, he was in line, apparently.
Even if the move is a bit surprising, it was probably inevitable. Kudos to the Twins for identifying a problem of theirs and moving on from it. It would’ve been too easy to blame injuries/bad luck/the East-West cultural divide/Danny Valencia…
I’m a little bothered, however, their response is to bring the old band back together. Ryan. Krivsky. Radcliff… Don’t get me wrong; these guys have helped the Twins to some moderate success. But it could also signal the team just doesn’t really know which direction to go, so instead of looking forward it’s easier to just take a shot at recreating an old recipe that worked alright once.
I still shake my head that Kevin Towers was essentially a free agent GM for a year while the Twins were employing Bill Smith. I know such a move wouldn’t have been Twinslike, but given the pipeline in their front office was running a bit dry on exec talent, that would’ve been a nifty opportunity to make an exception.
Towers has a good scouting pedigree
He would have been a good addition to several front offices.
I read a Terry Ryan interview a while back, I think it was a year or two before he resigned. He was asked which GMs he enjoyed working with, and the one specific name he mentioned was Towers, who was working for San Diego then. At the time, Ryan had entered into a bit of a curmudeonly state and cited more than once his belief that there was a lack of “gentlemen” in his line of work (I think the Red Sox had recently pulled some silly stunt during a minor deal between them and the Twins, but I can’t recall specifics, and Ryan was bitter for a while about it). Anyway, Ryan talked about his respect for Towers in how he operates, as well as his scouting background.
So yeah, when Towers was just floating out there, it seemed to me to be a rare opportunity to do something unTwinslike. But at the time the Twins weren’t losing 99 games, so even if the team shared some of the concerns about Smith that many fans/observers did, there just wasn’t urgency.
It seems like there are a lot of unwritten rules
Old-school GMs never disclosed anything until you had a hand-shake agreement at least. Now, there’s just a lack of discretion that can seriously affect your leverage in key situations and definitely affects how the players view the organization. If you tell another GM something in confidence—such as a hypothetical deal—you could expect it not to be used against you or leaked to the press. For some GMs, those rules have been replaced by gamesmanship. The result is, the Twins just won’t do deals with a lot of teams.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
You can't operate that way
They need to find a way to work with those teams. Only dealing with people you like puts you at a severe disadvantage.
Maybe they can find some common ground with AZ this offseason
Arizona is a contender, Minnesota is rebuilding.
I think we have a good relationship with them
Teams with whom we have not traded despite a stated desire:
Oakland
Chicago (WS)
Toronto
Pittsburgh
Houston
Atlanta
I won’t say it’s impossible to trade with them. But I would be shocked if we pulled off a deal with the top three and surprised with the bottom three.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Sorry, why?
Other than the White Sox, because it’s always hard to trade within your division, why would deals with the others be surprising or shocking? I mean, Pittsburgh tends not to have much anyone would want, so maybe that would make for a surprise, but I don’t see what’s unexpected about the others.
It's just history
We’ve been in on rumors with the Pirates for years. We haven’t done any of those deals. They always change their asking price late in the deal. That was the case with Freddy Sanchez, for example.
Oakland has a GM who doesn’t show the proper respect. Ryan has said he would never try to deal with him again.
I think there’s bad blood in Toronto since the Stewart trade. They always ask for a lot more than we think their guys are worth.
We do sometimes trade within our division (Tigers most recently, Cleveland not too long ago). But Williams is an arrogant jerk.
We’ve been in on deals with Houston and Atlanta that went bad late, again, according to rumors. Not that it can’t happen, but those things tend to make it more difficult in future deals.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Smith was shocked
Smith was shocked to be fired. That should give you an idea how this little change up was necessary. A GM of any other team would be on the obvious hot seat after last season. It’s still mostly the same people, but anybody in the Twins organization who thought they were totally safe now knows there are consequences to disastrous decisions.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
I certainly hope so
I was honestly beginning to believe that this franchise would almost literally never change its personnel. Not to be hyperbolic, and sticking with the same people in top brass and coaching can be something when the results are amazing (i.e. the Steelers). But the thought of Smith being around for a few more years was troubling.
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Nov 8, 2011 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
That is true
But the thing can be said for Ron Gardenhire as well. I would like to call him the Tony Dungy of baseball because he has won only one playoff series as manager and is overdue for a change. The Twins can do better at manager meaning that Gardy has to go.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Can do better
With whom?
I have a hard time seeing Gardy as the problem.
What was Gardy suppose to do?
Tell Joe Nathan not to blow a 9th inning playoff game? Or Juan Rincon to not throw a fastball down the middle to Ruben Sierra. For the entire lineup to stop producing? He definatly should have told torii hunter not to give up two inside the park homeruns. Or maybe he should have asked for the new britain lineup instead of rochesters last summer. The man has lead six teams through a marathon divisional championship. From what I can see from the outside as a fan, Gardy is not the problem.
Gardy is part of the problem
One of the things Ryan said yesterday was, “I’m going to be more patient with some things.” Translation, Smith was not as patient, as evidenced by the Capps trade. I doubt Ryan makes that trade, preferring to play for the long term than win now.
If that’s the philosophical position of the franchise, Gardy is not the right manager. He is notoriously bad at developing guys. He has almost no patience for rookie mistakes. He would prefer to play the marginally talented journeyman over the very talented rookie seven times out of 10. That is an impediment if your organizational philosophy is to build from within.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Good points...
until you remember that Gardy has been here ten years and won 6 division championships with a group of core unproven players. You don’t think a few players have been developed over those 10 years. Your argument that Gardy is not right for the position because he can’t handle a young unproven team, can’t develop a young player, or can’t deal with rookie growing pains is completely wrong because it has already happened.
It is a paradox
But Gardy didn’t develop the first group that won three of those titles. Kelly did. Gardy did develop the second group. Still, it’s tough to screw up Mauer, and Morneau. Though you could argue that he slowed down Morneau and nearly had him sent out in the middle of his MVP season.
He nearly screwed up Cuddy by benching him early and often in his career and treating him like a utility player for most of his time here.
He nearly screwed up Kubel by not playing him for most of his first two years.
He seriously slowed Bartlett down.
Gomez never improved under him.
He couldn’t accept Hardy’s contributions.
Casilla has yet to develop under him.
Even Valencia and Span had to be bench players for much of their first years with the team. And both are regularly rumored to be trade bait even now.
Nishioka was a train wreck.
Hughes is meh.
Plouffe was a crain/train wreck.
True, some of that is minor league coordination, which has suffered since the promoted the guy who ran the program so successfully (Steve Liddle). Apparently, they did not hire a competent replacement. But Gardy regularly gets guys who play great in AAA and makes them look like scrubs on the field, or he benches them and moves them around so much, they never get into a groove.
I should qualify this: He is not very good at developing position players, especially infielders. He is better at developing pitchers because he delegates that job to Anderson.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Oh, I forgot Delmon
He was runner up for ROY when we got him. He had one good half season out of four here. Most of the time, he just looked lost. I know he was stubborn. But he obviously was not getting enough coaching either.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
How is it that you think young players are developed?
If it’s not by being backups, gaining experience, and then starting?
You talk like each of these guys was a talent that Gardy should simply of immediately handed a position to without question. They weren’t.
Over the guys that were playing the positions instead they mostly were.
Bartlett had to beat out Juan Castro, fer crissake.
+1
If a kid has talent, you have to be patient. You play him as much as you can and you coach him. Gardy seems put off by talent, wanting to make an example of the more talented guys by benching them and playing journeymen veterans in their place.
Kubel would sit for three games, then play three games in a row. In the third game, he’d go 4-4, then go back to the bench for two games against right handers. It was maddening. He didn’t get consistent playing time until 2009, three years after he was pronounced healthy and ready to go. That’s just one example. And it’s not like he gave Gardy a reason to put him in the doghouse. He’s the quietest , nicest guy you’ll ever met. But Gardy would hit Rondell White against right handers.
No one else in the industry benches players after breakout games. The consensus is the talented guys need to play, either in AAA or the majors. Look at the playing time in the first two years of the best Twins players since Kelly. Cuddyer, Bartlett, Kubel, Span, and Valencia all had extensive time on the bench in their rookie years. Some took two or three years to get regular playing time. That’s just a waste of their talent. Journeymen are your bench players. Young, talented guys are your regulars. Unless you’re Gardy.
I think Jesse’s list in another thread is telling. Most of the names on the list were developed by Kelly. Since Gardy has taken over, he hasn’t developed anybody except Mauer, Morneau, Span and Kubel. A monkey could have developed the first two. The last two wasted parts of their first two healthy years on the bench. And Cuddyer became a good player despite Gardy. Even Morneau had to ride the pine quite a bit in his first two years. That’s absured.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 10, 2011 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The above was late and nobody probably saw it, this is later, but...
…this is SO well put.
Gardy seems put off by talent
Apt doesn’t begin to describe this. I typically prefer to delve into his psyche and see him as resentful and jealous (deep down, natch), but “put off” nails it masterfully in its own way.
FWIW I see Plouffe as a victim of Prof. Gardenhire much moreso than an inherent trainwreck. He was living in fear from day 1, and to mine little eyes it wasn’t of The Show in general, but of screwing up in his specific Gardenhire-looming circumstances.
by tobynotjason on Nov 13, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
Especially since they had daily “discussions” for the past two months and he obviously was not influencing them. If you’re shocked after two months of that, you’ve got to be clueless.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Yes, the biggest achievement of this move should not be only moving Smith, but it combats complacency.
Light a fire under their buts, if you know what I mean.
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
Is anyone else a bit bummed by this move?
Because I’m not.
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
If anyone is bummed by this move
They are not Twins fans.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I saw the news on my phone while walking around at school
And just about went crazy (luckily it was a nature path with no one around!). This is admittedly a surprise, but man, it feels like the season’s a success already. I admit that Smith had some good moves to begin with, but last season was unacceptable and absolutely a by-product of his clueless way of thinking.
There’s obviously plenty else that needs to be done, and others (yes, you, Jessy) will put Gardy on the chopping block too (I personally will continue to thump the “Vavra for Molitor” talking point). But in my view, this is what really had to be done first to save the team. Hell, when I got into the airport in MN for the ‘91 reunion in August, the first thing the breakfast bar attendant said in our Twins conversation was, "That Billy Smith’s got to go!"
So, in honor of that moment and this one, I propose a celebratory song (the first view lines, anyway):
“Goodbye Billy” (Sung to the tune of “Goodbye Stranger” by Supertramp)
It was early morning yesterday
As I ate my burrito
The man at the bar said to me
“Billy Smith has got to go”
‘Cuz a team without a shortstop
That can throw the ball to first
Is all too damn well likely
To end up baseball’s worst
That Jim Hoey shouldn’t be on the team
Is the undisputed truth
He’d even make Sweet Drew Butera
Look like a new Babe Ruth
But a team without a catcher
And a team without an ace
Is a team that’s almost certain
To fall flat on its face
But now that Billy has been sacked
We’re shining like brand new
With Terry Ryan back at the helm
Our troubles will be few
(Chorus)
Goodbye Billy
It’s been nice
Now Target Field is
Paradise
Tried to see your
Point of view
Did we really
Need Dusty Hughes?
Goodbye Billy
No more pain
Now we’re gonna
Win again….
That’s all I can come up with now. But anyway: Goodbye Bill, and welcome back Terry!
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Nov 8, 2011 12:41 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Oh my
AWESOME
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
Thank you!
I’m too tired right now to finish the rest of the song, so if anyone else wants to fill in their own lyrics, go ahead.
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Nov 8, 2011 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
Rebuilding
On the one hand, I am thrilled with the news. From the word, “Go,” the Twins’ Bill Smith botched his job. He had the opportunity to trade Santana for Ian Kennedy and Melky Cabrera (or Phil Hughes and Melky Cabrera). NY was pretty public with its frustrations in working with Smith. Rumors were that he could have traded Santana for Ellsbury or Lester, too. Good young talent for a good starting pitcher who was not committed to the organization. Seems like a good deal. To Smith, though, the better option was Carlos Gomez and a couple of guys who haven’t delivered.
And it got worse from that moment. We saw Garza get dumped for Young, an okay trade by itself, but if you throw in Jason Barlett you see a one-sided deal (of course, it wasn’t as one-sided as trading Young for, umm, umm, no one). Then there were bullpen decisions: last year we brought in guys like Dumatrait, Hoey, James (and Nathan and Capps). This was a pretty miserable crop that did nothing to help the already weak starting pitching staff.
Hopefully Terry can think — again — in a creative manner. We need to rebuild from the ground up, focusing on picking up the best young talent and, again, making the Twins a great organization. It’s hard work. I’m not saying you can’t make a mistake here and there but the mistakes you do make have to be some that can be overcome.
I agree with most of your post, but Santana wasn't going to the Red Sox
Santana has always been a flyball pitcher and lefties with flyball tendencies generally don’t do well in Fenway Park. For lefties to succeed there they need to be more like… well, Jon Lester.
But, flyball lefties can excel in Yankee Stadium with its more spacious LF. My contention was that the Red Sox were leaking these sweet trade rumors to either bid up the Yankee cost of getting Santana or to scare them off. It worked brilliantly and we ended up making a late deal with a team in the other league.
Still not clear about Santana
We will never know what went down. But Peter Gammons is as close to the Red Sox as any analyst and he reported that a deal between the Twins and Sox was “almost done.” In included either Ellsbury or Lester plus Lowrie, Masterson and one other prospect like Bowen or Kalish. Gammons said Smith backed out. I don’t know if it’s true, but it seems plausible. Other people have said that it got to the point of a meeting between Santana’s agent and the Sox, at which point the Sox backed out. He was said to be seeking A-Rod dollars and years.
Either one of those trades were better than what the Mets were offering, which didn’t deviate from the first offer Smith got. Whoever spoiled the deal, it was hot one day and stone cold the next.
The Yankees were never seriously in it. They were willing to wait for Sabathia rather than come even close to what the Sox or Mets would offer. They were concerned about his injury history. They were even more concerned about the contract demands. Cashman said afterwards that they were only in it for show, to make sure the Sox didn’t steal Santana.
When the Sox deal fell apart, Smith was left with one buyer and a crummy offer. He could either take the offer or keep Santana for a year and take draft picks. In hindsight, that was the better option. But he didn’t want the free agent circus that Hunter brought to the clubhouse every day in 2007. So he took the deal. And it very nearly got scuttled anyway by Santana, who squeezed Minaya’s hemorrhoids until he bled a few more dollars minutes before the deadline.
We can only wonder what might have been in 2008 with Santana, Garza and Barlett.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
You might be right on the details...
I tend to tune out trade rumors after a while because I think the leaks are just a push to gain leverage in the negotiations. Plus it just gets to be overload for me in the offseason.
I just remember thinking of Johan’s one weakness (gopher balls), the Green Monster, and how Casey Stengel used to time his rotation to keep Whitey Ford out of Fenway Park. The trade just didn’t make any sense to me unless they were just trying to bid up the Yankee offer.
But the Red Sox can do dumb things, too, so maybe they were serious. I don’t know.
Yup...
Ground balls help, too. Grove and Parnell are the historical anomalies of lefties who succeeded at Fenway. Both were always on the league leaderboard for fewest HR/9 in their better seasons. Santana led the AL in HRA the year before the trade.
ugh... reply fail...
The offseason has made me rusty.
I was replying to:
Lefties need to drink beer in the clubhouse to succeed at Fenway?
:-p
Well, I'd say Santana was more of a strikeout pitcher
When guys made contact, though, they hit more fly balls. The pie chart for fly balls was still considerably less than a lot of “fly ball” pitchers because of the strikeouts.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
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