Monday Night Twins Notes: Cuddyer, Saunders, 40-Man Roster, Wishing On Prado
by Jesse on Dec 12, 2011 11:35 PM EST
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Things seem to be reaching a boiling point for the Twins. There's been a lot more in the media about the Michael Cuddyer situation than what they usually let leak, which is next to nothing. If there's one thing this front office and this organization does well, it's keeping secrets when they want them kept.
With that, here's some news and speculation that should top off the worst day of the week quite nicely.
- The Twins trimmed three off their 40-man roster today. We just talked about Jose Mijares and his non-tender, but Jim Hoey was claimed by the Blue Jays and Pedro Florimon was assigned to Rochester. Hoey had a rough season with Minnesota and will get one more opportunity to be a big league pitcher in Canada, but why Florimon was ever on the 40-man roster in the first place is a bit of a puzzle to everyone. Now, if anyone can tell me why Terry Doyle, Matt Maloney and Jeff Gray are there, I'd be very appreciative.
- It sounds like the Twins have upped their offer to Cuddyer a little bit, to three years and $26 million, but that might be as high as they're willing to go. We know the Rockies are very interested but apparently haven't made an offer (those two points have been on repeat on Twitter all day), but other potential suitors continue to be silent. There are many things that go into a decision like this, for both the team and the player, so it's impossible to guess with any accuracy as to what's factoring into Cuddyer's decision making, but the longer this goes on the more interesting it gets. And the more people will begin to speculate as to why's of the situation.
- With the impending non-tender of Joe Saunders, teams across the league will show their interest. Saunders is a southpaw, accumulates innings and posts some tempting traditional stats, but underneath it all he's a pitcher in the mold of Carl Pavano, Nick Blackburn and Brian Duensing; pitch-to-contact hurlers who don't register many strikeouts and who don't have a big out pitch. On the plus side, Saunders would only cost money (not much at that) and not prospects, and would slide into the Minnesota rotation as the number five starter and second lefty. But he's the guy you pick up when you're just holding spots down for next year...or the year after. He's not the pitcher you go after when you're trying to put together a winning team.
- It's been brought up on our Facebook and Twitter accounts, but if you were the Twins would you attempt to trade for Martin Prado? If so, who would you give up? The Braves don't need pitching but they need outfielders; the Twins don't have much of either they can spare anyway, not at the top levels, and it'd be hard to justify Prado for any of our impressive outfield prospects. Still, if you can work it out, go for it. It's fun to imagine this lineup: Span (CF), Prado (2B), Mauer (C), Morneau (1B), Willingham (RF), Valencia (3B), Plouffe (DH), Carroll (SS), Revere (LF). It's dreaming, sure, but what's an off-season without a little optimism?
- Finally, we'll bookend our night by going back to our first point. With Mijares, Florimon and Hoey off the roster, the Twins now have 37 men on their 40-man roster. There is no speculation to go to here, other than to ask: are we waiting for the other shoe to drop? Minnesota cleared a lot of roster space today. Hopefully something is in the works.
Get some rest, we'll see you in the morning.
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I'd love Prado...
I’d give up Revere plus a minor prospect for him, if needed.
Sign Willingham, sign Kubel, let Cuddy walk for picks; have Tosoni as the 4th guy now, but have Benson just about ready.
CF-Span, 2b-Prado, C-Mauer, 1b-Morneau, LF-Willingham, RF/DH-Kubel, DH-Doumit, 3b-Valencia, SS-Carroll/Casilla
Bench: Plouffe, Casilla or Carroll, Tosoni, Nishioka
That would immediately upgrade our bench (moving Casilla or Carroll there) as well. Either Casilla or Carroll would be an elite MI bench guy.
The other thing that'd be good about Prado...
is that he could also give you good insurance at 3b should Valencia not rebound. You move him there and play Carroll and Casilla in the middle.
They are making it into an animated TV show
I do not like that one bit.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
I had a friend actually vote for Pedro (Martinez) in the 2004 presidential election
Red Sox fans are kind of nuts.
And to stay on topic for cmath, because I know he doesn’t like these diversions… I’m not big on speculation, but has anyone signed Punto yet? I think he’d fit well into our middle infield. :-p
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 13, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
LNP knows about Championship infields.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 13, 2011 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
You're out of your element Donnie
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Dec 13, 2011 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LNP really tied the whole infield together.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 13, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Shut the F*ck up Donnie!
You’re out of your element!
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Dec 13, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The cowbellman is not the issue!
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 13, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm less cowbell.
So that’s what you call me. That, or His Cowbellness … cowbeller … or El cowbellerino, if, you know, you’re not into the whole brevity thing.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 13, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Less Cowbell Abides
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Dec 13, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Should have voted for Dennis... he was El Presidente
by DavidRF on Dec 13, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
El Perfecto reply.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 13, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Patience
Smoke clearing in Cuddyer deal, #Rockies & #Twins appear to be only 2 in play. Expecting decision by mid-week.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 13, 2011 2:08 AM EST reply actions
Question
Where did Lindsay Guentzel come from? I had never heard of her before this week and now she’s breaking all the Twins news stories (where stories are Mauer’s engagement and Cuddyer rumors). I mean, good for her, I’m all for more female sports reporters, but did she just pop on the scene this week or have I been oblivious before?
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 13, 2011 2:15 AM EST up reply actions
She used to have a Gophers blog, "Lindsay Guentzel Dot Com"
About me:
My name is Lindsay Guentzel and I am a student at the University of Minnesota studying Communications, English, and the Study of Cinema and Media Culture. I’m currently an intern at KFAN-1130 (yes, I’m Intern Gal) and a beat writer at the Minnesota Daily, covering women’s volleyball and swimming and diving.
But I never heard of her until she broke the Cuddyer offer story.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 13, 2011 2:31 AM EST up reply actions
How is someone with that bio
Scooping LEN iii and joe c? Twins must have terribly connected beat writers
by clutterheart on Dec 13, 2011 7:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
you're just figuring this out now?
we have some of the worst baseball reporters in the biz. And Souhan should have been fired a long time ago.
It's not just the reporters, it's the editors
Joe C. does a good job. LEN has his moments, but relies too heavily on club PR imho. But there’s no editor pushing them to go deeper.
The paradigm for me was the Joe Mauer injury story. The misinformation multiplied for six months before anyone talked to Joe and got his side of the story. And that just happened in one blog post by Joe C. Two months later, both Souhan and Reusse were repeating the same misinformation from spring training. If I was the sports editor, I would be demanding that they get both sides of the story before publishing a line about it. They barely got one side of the story.
They should have had a full expose about how the medical staff waited two months to cut him, pushed him to start catching prematurely, and blamed him for his work ethic. Instead, the myth persists because the editors don’t bother to even check when reporters are just repeating the same myth over and over.
And don’t even talk to me about the PiPress. They fired their two Twins beat reporters and put John Shipley—the guy who normally covers cars—on the job. He couldn’t even find the Twins contingent at the winter meetings to interview them.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Wasn't the sports editor Sidd?
At least for awhile (prolly not anymore, right)? But that might explain things.
He was in the '90s, but that didn't last long
He can barely write himself and his method of journalism is to pretend to suck up to his sources, so that didn’t work too well.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
agreed, Cmath...
honestly the mauer and slowey “storylines” from guys like souhan are fireable offenses IMO.
Sohan is a columnist
Not a reporter
by clutterheart on Dec 13, 2011 5:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
sure...
doesn’t change the fact that some of his language and takes have been utterly ridiculous trash that is not becoming of any writer.
He was actually a decent beat writer
The worst thing for his career was becoming a columnist. That’s when he became a self-important, self amused, jerk who equates negativity with being interesting.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
yep...
he’s also basically a frontrunner. he changes his opinions based on the polls.
Did it really take 4 posts to say
Souhan sucks? Because he does.
The Atlanta Braves non-tendered reliever Peter Moylan (Side-armer, former Twins' farmhand).
Current Australians on Twins and Red Wings’ rosters: Luke Hughes, Liam Hendriks & Brendan Wise .
Moylan is recovering from a torn rotator cuff, but should be ready for spring training in 2012.
I’m also in favor of the Twins making offers to Jon Garland and Michael Wuertz, two other pitchers who both had an off-year in 2011.
We'd have to give up a big name
to get Prado, like Benson or Arcia. The guys a solid B player. You’re not going to trade a couple of so-so prospects or back-up players for him. IMHO. Also, picking up a Non-Tender pitcher is a waist of time. I’d put Duensing Hendricks or Diamond back in the starting five, before I’d start Sanders. Put him in the pen. Frorimon was on Balt 40man so I think we had to keep him on ours in order to claim him. I would guess that there is a time limed that he had to stay on our 40 after being claimed. (2-weeks?) Yes, there is room on the roster to drop 5 more pitcher if need be. (IMHO)
I'm not so sure on Prado...
especially if the rumors are true that they were “close” on a Delmon/Prado deal. I think Revere would probably do the trick.
I like Saunders
I’d rather have Saunders than Blackburn. Flyball lefty who will have Span and Revere shagging behind him. Looking at a 4.0 ERA and 200 innings in Target Field. That’s a solid #4 starter. I’d give him what Capuano received – 2 years $10M.
Florimon was on the 40 man because they wanted him for AAA
I think it was always the plan to grab him on waivers and sneak him through again later. The Twins are in good waiver position to make moves like that.
Prado for Rever AND Prospects? No way.
Prado isn’t even under team control for much longer. He’s arb. eligible in 2012 and 2013.
Besides, we don’t need another middle infielder. We have plenty of those.
Casilla is doing fantastic in Winter Ball (which really means nothing) and we have a proven SS in Jamey Carroll.
Essentially, Casilla just needs motivation. Tell him he’s going to lose his job and he’ll play like an all-star.
"we have plenty of those"....
just not any good ones. I like Casilla, but Prado would sure make this team better. And again, he gives you good insurance for Valencia at 3b as well. It’s actually a perfect fit. Revere is completely superfluous in 2 years or so, when Hicks/Arcia/Morales/Benson are all ready. And Prado will be too expensive to keep by then (or a FA). Works for both sides.
also, who said "prospects"?
I said Revere, and—-if needed— A MINOR prospect. That is not too much to ask.
agreed...
I like Revere, but he is really nothing more than a really good defensive 4th outfielder (although, he has a weak arm). If we could cash in on him now, we should do it. He will not be the determining factor in a winning season versus a repeat of last year. You are also correct in saying that he loses his job to Hicks/Arcia/Morales/Benson/Kepler/etc down the line.
yes, but right now he's
are starting LF and we don’t yet have a starting Rf’er.
by b1 on Dec 13, 2011 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately
DJ, we tend to disagree on a lot on how the Twins look…
To be honest with you Hicks ain’t gonna be here for another 3 years, at least. Arcia too. Morales? Who? That’s right he’s in A+ with a .270 BA and some mediocre, at best, numbers.
Revere’s 22 or 23 and with the Big League club already. He’s a base stealing threat and is an excellent 2nd lead off (batting 9th). No power, no arm, but he has + defense and ++ speed that wreaks havoc on opposing teams. Follow him up with a high OBP guy like Span and you’ve got yourself problems.
Arcia is going to need time to develop. You can’t force him. Moving him to A+ this year has him sitting at .263/.300/.460 with 8 HR. Sure he has power, but he needs to develop more and it’s gonna take him more than 2 years.
Benson… Man, he looked uncomfortable and outmacthed in his big league call up (vs. Parmalee). Benson will need a full year at Triple A before he gets a permanent call up. Benson will have to compete with Revere for a roster spot in a year or two mainly because he doesn’t show as good of plate discipline. He needs to cut down on strikes and MAYBE he can dethrone Revere.
Either way… Prado isn’t my cup of tea. We have Casilla, Nishioka, Carroll on the 40 man as middle infielders. Prospects such as Dozier are up and coming so… it doesn’t make sense to have Prado.
Morales had numbers similar to Arcia when he was 18 and 19
He has always been very young for his level and has been promoted aggressively. I wouldn’t say he had bad numbers last year (relative to league averages). He was hurt a lot of the year and otherwise he held his own. I rate him right alongside Benson. He probably has more upside than Benson, but he’s two years further away.
Also, Hicks will be in AA next year and AAA in 2013. He should debut in the majors that year.
Revere has zero power and has reached his upside already. I wouldn’t say he has + defense. He can catch the ball but he has the weakest outfield arm in the majors and he commits a lot of erros. In order for him to have an OBP like Span, he would need to take 50 more walks a year. That’s not in his makeup.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Revere has proven he can succeed at every level. I think we will see Revere take more walks this year. And yeah, Revere has a noodle arm but he has a ton of range and speed. And he had 7 errors this year, which I suppose is a mediocre number (not too bad or good) for an OF… and I suppose Revere has like a .042 ISO lol.
I think Benson does have more upside than Revere (power-wise) but I don’t think Benson is good of a contact hitter or OBP guy or even as much of a base stealing threat. He strikes out too much to get on-base to even have a chance to steal.
Hicks will be in Triple A in 2013, agreed, but he won’t be full-time on the club roster. He’ll get a call-up in 2012 (maybe) and most-likely in 2013 (probably not until September since we won’t want to use one of is options).
I wouldn't call Revere's play all that successful
A+ OPS .734
AA OPS .741
AAA OPS .702
MLB OPS .606
That’s certainly not anything to write home about. He does steal a lot of bases, but he gets caught a lot.
A+ SB/CS 45/17
AA SB/CS 36/13
AAA SB/CS 8/2
MLB SB/CS 34/9
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
he doesn’t strike out a lot and his OPS numbers are brought down by how awful his power is (note the .042 ISO lol)
Yes
And that’s my main knock against him offensively. The other knock is he doesn’t take walks. If he got on base at a .400 clip, he’d be an adequate center fielder with a .320/.400/.340 line. That would require him to take 50 more walks over the course of a season than he has at any time in his career. It ain’t happening. He’s a .300/.330/.330 hitter. That’s not getting it done even if he can play center, which, with his arm is highly questionable. As a left fielder, it’s not good.
Hicks, on the other hand, might strike out a lot, but at least he walks a lot. And he hits XBHs about four times more often than Revere. He has a chance to be an elite center fielder. Even if he doesn’t fulfill his upside, he’ll be at least as good as Span with a much stronger arm.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
OBP of .400 and he's a borderline All-Star
Maybe you haven’t seen league OBP is trending down
Span had an OBP of .400 and noboday said anything about All Star status
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
and span can hit a baseball...
more than 120 feet.
Lots of people here said Span was the best player on the team
I remember some people saying Span should be the Twins ASG representative.
Fair enough
Perhaps Cuddy got all the attention from most everybody not on this site because it was more of a lifetime achievement award.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
i think denard span when healthy is a borderline allstar...
the trouble is that revere is not close to as good as denard span, as terry ryan himself recently said, and likely won’t be (IMO)
Kubel/Span
Then they both got hurt so Cuddy got the nod.
He stealing % is fine
72% is his low and it improved as he worked at it. 79% at majors is pretty good.
He's just above water for his career
He was better last year. It will be tough to maintain that. 70% is the water line. Anything below that is actually negative value. Now, he adds value by being able to go first the third and second to home. So his speed is not insignificant on the bases. But you can’t steal first. If I have to choose, I would choose power over speed any day.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
No trading away prospects
Unless we feel like we have a championship team. Prado isn’t enough to put us over. Pitching needs to be addressed asap.
Tough to trade
The Twins have an excess of …….guys coming off poor years so their value has diminished. They don’t have a lot of prospects in the upper minors and it looks like they will need those prospects to fill large holes in their own roster.
I keep reading that the Twins should sign Willingham AND Kubel. Does anyone think that is any more realistic than signing Cuddyer and Kubel? I see no more than a $2M per year difference between Willingham and Cuddy and $2M isn’t enough to sign Kubel.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Dec 13, 2011 10:36 AM EST reply actions
Pitching!
I am not sure why Ryan is waiting to address pitching… If he thinks Gray, Doyle and Maloney are going to be the answer we are in trouble.
The only locks for the BP are Glen Perkins and Matt Capps. Beyond that there are a few options for lefties (Duensing, Dumatrait, Diamond and Robertson), a few guys that could be considered for middle/long relief (Burnett, Slama, Oliveros, and Swarzak) and some young guys that should get a shot (Waldrop, Gutierrez and Bromberg). Figuring a 7 man BP, the Twins need to make a run at some guys that could be considered in the setup role. Peter Moylan is an intriguing option and I also like Michael Wuertz, Chad Qualls and Dan Wheeler.
CL: Capps
SU: Perkins
SU: Wuertz/Qualls/Wheeler/Moylan
MI: Burnett/Oliveros
MI: Waldrop/Gutierrez
LH: Duensing
LR: Swarzak
That looks much better than having to rely on Burnett or Oliveros as setup men and keeps the riff-raff (Maloney, Gray, Doyle) in AAA.
Beltran?
Any reason why the Twins haven’t been linked to Beltran yet? Sure, he’s never gonna put up a near 40/40 season again, but he played a great RF last year, put up solid numbers, and wouldn’t cost a draft pick.
Cost and age
He’s older than both Cuddy and Willingham AND he’s substantially more expensive.
I’d think his injury risk would deflate his price a bit, and I can’t imagine that he’s asking for more than a 2 year deal. I’d take a couple mil extra per year for better production and a shorter contract.
by Josiah Allen on Dec 13, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Willingham
Mr. Willingham has been reported to want a 3 year deal. He’ll probably cost the Twins 3 years/24 mil (since his argument, to my speculation, will be that he’s similar to Cuddyer).
My mistake
Oh sorry. I was lost. You’re right… except… A couple mil is more like 12/14 mil which is almost twice of what Cuddy/Willingham would cost.
Beltran just came off a 7yr/119mil contract and is a free-agent now… So avg. annual salary of 17mil. My assumption is that he’ll require at least 14/mil and will want 3 years since he’s 34.
ya, beltran should get the least of these guys...
because of injury risk and age.
i still think kubel is the most likely out of all of them to perform the best over the next 3 years, mainly due to age (his prime years) and he’s still the guy i’d want above all the others.
SB Nation Player Profile Stats
A little off topic but I’ve noticed that when I clicked on Josh Willingham yesterday and Martin Prado today, the stats for each player showed only two games played in 2011. Both played well over 100 games in 2011. Is it me or them?
Correct
Look at the Baseball Reference link here:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/willijo03.shtml
Willingham had a career high 29 HRs in 2011… so… I’d say he played a lot of games for that :) lol
Terry
Doyle was drafted by the Twins in the Rule 5 draft. So to answer your question of explaining why he is on the 40 man roster….it’s because he has to be. But I think you already knew that so I’m going to assume that was a slip on Jesse’s part. Haha
Not technically??
It’s possible Terry Doyle could be outrighted (making it through waivers of course) or .. I think a trade could be made at this point too.
Kind of ridiculous
We’d be throwing away $25K for nothing. Why even draft him if you don’t think you’ll give him a shot to make the team?
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Boiling point?
I’m not sure things are reaching the “boiling point” for the Twins’ hot stove. I’d label it more of a “slight rewarming of a week-old hotdish” point.
Here’s an interesting piece of trivia I think I am remembering correctly. When Willingham came up (with the Mets?) he was actually a catcher. I’m not advocating he get starts there any more than Cuddyer get starts at 2b, though.
I am surprised Atlanta isn’t in on Cuddyer, I seem to recall them covering a RH OF bat, and specifically Cuddyer, for years.
I don’t think Cuddyer is coming back to the Twins—I think if it were going to happen, it would have happened. This is his one chance to cash in on a big payday to set up his (growing) family for life—waiting for someone to come in with an extra $4mm isn’t something to sneeze at; he is right to do so.
I also would prefer the Twins let him go, as well.
by AM. on Dec 13, 2011 2:03 PM EST via mobile reply actions
From Joe C
Willingham will make his decision in the next 48 hours
http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/blogs/135523318.html
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
From said article:
“The Twins have very good scouting reports on Willingham. His power is evident from his numbers, but they also like his make-up and work ethic, viewing him as a consummate professional. His strikeout rate was a career-high 26.6 percent last season, but the Twins believe that was because Oakland looked to him as their primary home run threat.”
Let’s transform him in to a singles hitter.
"I wanted to do it because it's fun, it's fun to do bad things and drive into a car."
by PurplePeopleEaters on Dec 13, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Rosenthal now says the Indians are out on Willingham
So, I guess it is just the Twins left?
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
Well
There is the mystery team. Could be anybody, maybe even the North Dakota Mauers.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
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