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Around SBN: Devils Beat Rangers, Head To Stanley Cup Finals

If Christensen's sources are accurate, this is a very good deal for the Twins. This contract is drastically less than I would have imagined, which was closer to three years and $30.

Hopefully details flow in as the night goes on, and we'll have more for you in the morning.

5 months ago Twinkietown_tiny Jesse 68 comments 0 recs  | 

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Looks good

where does this put our payroll? Have much is left to work with?

The beard abides.

by Jason Kubel's Beard on Dec 13, 2011 11:31 PM EST reply actions  

Well now I'm fine with this

See you later Cuddyer…Sorry, I still like you but this is a great deal.

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 13, 2011 11:33 PM EST reply actions  

Also, his name starts with "J"

Continuing the trend I seriously am starting to think that the Front Office considers when looking for players….

See: Justin, Joe, Jamie, now Josh, (Please sign Jason) , Jeff etc….still miss JJ

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 13, 2011 11:36 PM EST reply actions  

They got rid of Jose

Needed to fill the void. Well, to fill his void, we’re going to need at least another player.

"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."

by John_Locke on Dec 13, 2011 11:40 PM EST up reply actions  

rimshot

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 13, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha true

And Joe N. is gone… so two more maybe…

I think they Twins have infiltrated the media as well….Joe C. and cough Jesse cough

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 13, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

A Jeff Francis signing is now inevitable

In seriousness though, I really like these numbers. Glad the Twins went forward.

"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."

by John_Locke on Dec 13, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Joe Saunders

He’s a perfect fit for a 4th starter

by DJL44 on Dec 14, 2011 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

And I just noticed you Mr. John_Locke

Its a conspiracy!!! Get Jesse Ventura……OH GOD NOT HIM TOO!!!!

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 13, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

but

He can be replaced with Jose Reyes when the SEC lets the entire Miami team out of their contracts.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Dec 14, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow

If that’s true… effing wow. Delmon Young money for a guy who has proven himself to be better than Delmon.

by spanspanspan on Dec 13, 2011 11:59 PM EST reply actions  

Like this deal a lot, if those numbers prove true.

Bucky's 5th Quarter The best site for Badger news on the web!

If it made sense, it wouldn't be the BCS.

by John Veldhuis on Dec 14, 2011 12:02 AM EST reply actions  

Jesus another J name

JESUS….THIS GOES BACK FURTHER THAN I THOUGHT!

(okay, I’m done)

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 14, 2011 12:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't mess with the Jesus

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 14, 2011 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

I like this... I was already a Willingham fan from the A's so it'll be easy to transfer over

Plus the price is definitely right.

But i’m still holding out hope that they sign Cuddyer too because I’m a sentimentalist like that.

by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 14, 2011 2:17 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

?

He was only with the As for one year

by clutterheart on Dec 14, 2011 7:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

She attended enough A's games to see Willingham in person.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Dec 14, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

And I've only been here one year, but went to about a dozen A's games

For the bulk of the second half of the season, he was touted as “the guy to watch” by Kara, the woman who does all the between inning banter in Oakland. Him, Jemile Weeks, and Kurt Suzuki.

[Man, the A’s are not good.]

Some friends of mine and I dubbed Willingham to be part of the cricket squad with Pennington because their names are so British sounding. We’d yell “good show, chap” at them when they did something good (if the Twins weren’t in town, naturally). So, yeah, actually, I’m a bit of a Willingham fan even if it’s somewhat superficial. The guy had two homeruns in a game against the Twins in July. You start to take notice when he does that.

by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 14, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Signing 2 corner outfielders to 3-year deals would be an odd move

for a franchise whose main prospect assets are young outfielders.

by Luke in MN on Dec 14, 2011 8:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I didn't say it was the logical move

I said it was the sentimental move. I’m well aware that you don’t actually want me running the front office. (Or rather, I’d be less sentimental if I was.)

by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 14, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Good move

Thanks for the memories Cuddy! Especially that triple in Game 163 against Detroit. That one still makes my hairs stand on end.

As for this deal: Good pickup, and glad to have saved that money. Use it for pitching now (Pitching not named Jeff Francis)!

When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.

by MarshalltheIrish on Dec 14, 2011 2:28 AM EST reply actions  

Only obvious downside

Looked up Willingham’s walk-up music on Yahoo, and it’s the country bar-band staple “Fried Chicken. (”Cold beer on a Friday night," etc.)

Ladies and gentleman . . . we have a hick. Not that there’s anything wrong with that!

Steve Goodman lives.

by twinsbrewer on Dec 14, 2011 3:21 AM EST reply actions  

He's from northern Alabama

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 14, 2011 8:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Cuddy

Had a country song as his walk up for the first half of the season as I do recall – think it was “Am I The Only One” by Dierks Bentley

Visit my Dakota County Real Estate blog - http://www.dakotacountyproperties.com

by FishingMN on Dec 14, 2011 9:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Very much in favor of this deal

I was going to guess 3/21. I figured it would be cheaper than Cuddyer’s contract, but still 3 years. Wish I had posted my guess.

I like the combo of Doumit and Willingham signings. Hopefully both get lots of AB and Drew Butera gets zero AB. (Willingham as emergency C? Played C in 15 or so games 2004-2006.)

Still holding out hope that we resign Kubel—hoe about 3/15?

by AM. on Dec 14, 2011 5:27 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I had start to become critical of Terry Ryan

I loved the Doumit signing and liked the Carroll addition but bringing Capps back and playing Cuddyers waiting game had started to erode my confidence, im very glad to see them pull the trigger on this especially if it is only 7 per year. They need to still address the rotation and maybe add a bullpen piece and this contract should allow the money to do so for more than just a warm body type of place like Jeff Francis.

first-worst-first?

by holymackerel on Dec 14, 2011 7:00 AM EST reply actions  

I am with you on Matt Capps

But we somewhat needed to play Cuddyer’s waiting game because the front office knows that Cuddyer is a fan favorite and would be their first choice. In fact, they wanted a decision last week, but extended the deadline to Monday in order to press him into making a decision. I am guessing Monday was Josh Willingham’s deadline as well. Since he chose the Twins, it is his gain and Cuddy’s loss.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Dec 14, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

cheap of solution

The Twins can go out and sign Johnny Gomes for a low cost OF solution to compete with Plouffe for platoon at bats in LF.

I still think the Twins trade for Brett Myers if the Astros are still willing to pick up over half his salary leaving the Twins to pay around 5 million.

Doofenschmirtz Evil, INC.
Phineas and Ferb

by doofus on Dec 14, 2011 10:12 AM EST reply actions  

i'd like both of those moves...

i think myers is a guy whose stuff would play in the AL.

by DJSkillz on Dec 14, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Downgrade

Financially, if these numbers are right this isn’t a bad deal. It “could” make the Twins better but is a downgrade from bringing back Cuddy. I hope they still add another bat. Willingham gives us a capable bat to pencil into the DH spot, batting 5th or 6th.

Cuddy would have hit between .275 and .285, with 20-22 and 85 RBI, while striking out about 15 to 16% of the time. Willingham will hit between .245 – .255 with 22-25 homers, and 80 RBI, while striking out at a much higher rate of 22-25%. Defensively, Willingham will be a downgrade as well from having Cuddyer in RF.

by Pohshow on Dec 14, 2011 10:17 AM EST reply actions  

Do we still get to play the games?

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!

by bf4mvp on Dec 14, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

This has potential to really blow up on us

If Willingham goes back to hitting 15 bombs year with a .330 OBP and 150Ks … yikes.

by Gunnarthor on Dec 14, 2011 10:31 AM EST reply actions  

guess you aren't a fan.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!

by bf4mvp on Dec 14, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

nothing in his career indicates that...

he’s had an OBP under .364 ONCE in the last 5 years, and that was last year, but he also had 29 bombs in Oakland. So why would you project a .330 OBP and 15 bombs?

by DJSkillz on Dec 14, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm ok with it

It has a few ways to work out. He could hit 25+ bombs yearly or maybe, with a year in the AL under his belt, he doesn’t strike out as much. Maybe the 40ish and 80ish picks we get for Cuddy (after he signs with Colorado) become steals for us and help us a lot in 2015.

But, yeah, I don’t think this is a great deal for us. I think a lot of joy here is of the grass is greener variety. We might get fanposts raging on how the Twins wanted him to use the whole field, ruining his swing. Or he might go back on the DL – avg 10 more missed games/season than Cuddy. Or his OBP could continue to plummet and he becomes an out machine.

by Gunnarthor on Dec 14, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

those draft picks matter...

but as a hitter i see nothing to suggest he won’t be as good as cuddy. and he’s much more projectable actually:

Cuddyer’s last 5 years:
2007: .276/.356/.433/.790, 16 HR
2008: .249/.330/.369/.699, 3 HR
2009: .276/.342/.520/.862, 32 HR
2010: .271/.336/.417/.753, 14 HR
2011: .284/.346/.459/.805, 20 HR

Willingham’s last 5 years:
2007: .265/.364/.463/.827, 21 HR
2008: .254/.364/.470/.834, 15 HR
2009: .260/.367/.496/.863, 24 HR
2010: .268/.389/.459/.848, 16 HR
2011: .246/.332/.477/.810, 29 HR

One of these guys is much more consistent than the other one (and it’s the latter). Cuddy’s a much better bet to “hit 15 bombs and OBP .330” so I’m curious why you project such a demise for Willingham.

by DJSkillz on Dec 14, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

oh, and even strikeouts is fairly ridiculous...

again, ONE time he’s had 150 K’s, last year. the previous 4 years he had:
122, 82, 104, 85

And his year last year, which was the worst he’d had over the last 5, was still about equal to Cuddy’s 2011. Lower OBP/higher SLG/higher OPS than Cuddy.

Is this just trying to play devil’s advocate here or something? Because at least offensively, Willingham’s a better bet. And he costs less, and he nets us two top picks.

by DJSkillz on Dec 14, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Comparing rate stats from NL to AL isn't realistic

In his first year in the AL, Willingham wasn’t that great. He had trouble adapting to the tougher league. His OBP dropped from nearly 60 points from his previous season, he set his career high in strike outs. While both he and Cuddy posted a 121 OPS+, Cuddy’s oWAR was about 1 higher (due to the better OBP and baserunning ability) and Cuddy was still superior in fangraph offensive stats like wOBA and wRC+ (how much weight you want to give them is up to you).

Willingham should be expected to improve his BB and K totals a bit this year but it’s also likely that his power numbers come back down (avg 18 from 08-10) a bit. And a bad left fielder might be an even worse right fielder.

by Gunnarthor on Dec 14, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

Cuddy is a bad fielder in his own right at any position...

they were similar offensively last year. Cuddy maybe SLIGHTLY better. And last year is a worst case scenario for Willingham while it was the 2nd best year of Cuddy career! That’s just a bad comparison IMO.

Again, when you throw in essentially $10M ($5 difference in salaries minimum over their contracts, plus $5M in pick value) AND 2 prospects, it’s a no-brainer.

by DJSkillz on Dec 14, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

meh

40th and 80th pick that won’t help until 2015 at the earliest is a bit much. If we were in full rebuild, I’d probably agree but if we’re trying to make another run at the central, I’d prefer the better player.

As I’ve pointed out, Willingham has some serious flaws. His first year in the AL would’ve been plain bad if he hadn’t set a career high in home runs. I don’t think he hits 29 again (believe me, I hope I’m wrong) so unless he makes better adjustments to the AL, last year will be his high water mark in the AL and the next three years could be ugly. (Or, Benson takes his place).

by Gunnarthor on Dec 14, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Picks can be traded

Young players are currency in deadline deals. You don’t have to wait for the picks to arrive in the majors to cash them out.

by DJL44 on Dec 14, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Have they flushed out the pick trading thing yet?

Last I heard was the lottery picks at the end of the rounds might be able to be traded but that was all. I don’t think we’re at a point yet where we can just all out trade picks.

by Gunnarthor on Dec 14, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

i believe he's saying...

that picks become prospects, and prospects are trade bait. so it’s not like you have to wait all that time. which is correct.

picks cannot be traded under the new CBA still, with the exception of a mechanism for the new lottery picks, correct.

by DJSkillz on Dec 14, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Willingham was hitting in a pitcher's park

Oakland is where hitters go to die. Look at how Matt Holliday bounced back from his time in Oakland.

by DJL44 on Dec 14, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

1 K every 5 AB's.

Last year he struck out once every 4 at bats. Posting total K’s is not very accurate. By posting the way you did above, your insinuating 82 k’s in 2008 is good. When you only have 351 AB’s… it’s not good.

Just curious, but what are your projections for Cuddy and Willingham this coming season?

by Pohshow on Dec 14, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd say something like...

Willingham: .260/.350/.470/.820, 22 HR
Cuddy: .275/.340/.450/.790, 18 HR

Cuddy’s hard to project because he’s so wildly inconsistent. I love the guy, but I’d rather have Willingham. And again, even if they’re CLOSE (and they certainly are at least that), $5-7M and 2 high draft picks (plus their dollar value) is nothing to sneeze at.

I just don’t understand how anyone can completely disregard top 80 draft picks, and it’s still very possible that we actually have 2 top 40 picks for Cuddy.

by DJSkillz on Dec 14, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

and I'd say those projections are conservative for Willingham...

those years would represent Cuddy’s 3rd best year of his career, and Willingham’s 2nd worst.

by DJSkillz on Dec 14, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I can agree with those projections.

Honestly, projections for both players may be conservative.

True, some are going to like Willingham better and the same with Cuddyer. They probably are going to have similiar production. I get that and I think 7M a year for Willingham is good value. I’d rather have Cuddy at 8M a year. If you start talking 10-12M a year, I’m all for Willingham. Regardless, I still think we need another bat.

My view on the picks is that they are a bonus to have when you lose a key contributor. I am not saying they don’t matter. I’m all about fielding the most competitive team you can year in and year out. Does getting the picks improve those odds? Maybe and maybe not. The decisions you make through the years are going to vary depending on so many different things that I wouldn’t tie my clubs future to two comp picks.

by Pohshow on Dec 14, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd be happy with that kind of output from Willingham

As to the picks, here is my thought process:

1) 40th and 80th pick in a weak draft aren’t that great. Certainly it’s two more attempts, which is a very good thing, but that low the likelihood of getting someone who even makes the majors is low.
2) We don’t know how the new draft deal will affect us since we tend to target players that might now prefer the college route or just play another sport
3) These picks won’t help us for years and we aren’t rebuilding (an argument could be made that we should be rebuilding). I’d prefer to have the better player now than having a Duensing like player in 2016.

All that said, it’s a done deal. Hopefully someone other than the Rockies sign Cuddy so we get a top 20ish pick (makes the trade a lot better). #2 overall should be a good pick and two more supp picks should make draft time fun to watch. The Twins have been active in international market. We have some interesting talent coming up that will be ready around 2015 so these extra picks could fit in as complementary pieces to the Sano/Rosario/Arcia group.

by Gunnarthor on Dec 14, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

well, exactly...

of course you can never count on picks panning out, but they still have tremendous value, whether it’s now or in the future. they still give you more chances for the most valuable commodity in the game, cheap, cost-controlled players for 6 years.

and it’s not like cuddy is a lot better than willingham is the main point; he can be argued to be slightly better (I wouldn’t) but that’s about it. i’ll take an extremely minimal downgrade (if that) AND save $5M bucks to spend on other roster spots AND take 2 picks. in a heartbeat.

by DJSkillz on Dec 14, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

also, do you think that output is too high for willingham?

that’s only slightly better than last year, which was the worst year of his career thus far. i’d argue that he’s likely to be better this year due to knowing the pitchers/league more, and having already made the adjustment.

by DJSkillz on Dec 14, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

we need to be hoping...

that the A’s somehow jump in for Cuddy. We’d have the #11 and #39 or #40 picks (depending on Madson’s destination) in the draft. Only Cuddy and Madson are left for Modified Type A’s on the market if the Willingham deal is done.

by DJSkillz on Dec 14, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm really worried about his OBP

and I don’t think his avg improves much – .250/.335/.460. His power, IMHO, is the x-factor. He could still slug enough but if that goes, I’m worried about everything else.

I’m a huge believer in the AL/AAAA NL thing.

by Gunnarthor on Dec 14, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm a believer in that too...

but:

1) He was in the NL East; their pitching is like AL pitching; Braves/Phillies/Marlins.
2) I’d argue that ballpark adjustment played a factor in his OBP drop; bet he was pressing to get the ball out at the Coliseum. Of course he’ll have a similar situation at Target Field, but he’ll also have adjusted, hopefully.
3) That projection you have above would mean he’d get WORSE this year than last. I just don’t see that. And even if he does due to age, etc., you have to make the same adjustment for Cuddyer downward. Again, last year was Willingham’s worst year, and it was Cuddyer’s 2nd best. And they were still very comparable.

by DJSkillz on Dec 14, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

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