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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Saturday Morning Breakfast & Baseball: Mauer, Twins Free Agents, Jackson, Francis and More

Can you imagine Jackson in a Twins uniform? Now, can you imagine the Twins giving him the necessary dollars?

Over the last 48 hours there's been no shortage of baseball news and rumors coming out of Minnesota. Let's get right to it.

  • Joe Mauer spoke with a number of Twins Cities media sources yesterday, in regards to a number of topics: injuries, his perception to the public, and expectations for health going into spring training were the most popular subjects. Mauer said all the right things, but it was refreshing to hear him speak with a bit more clarity and confidence. He acknowledged that being cagey about what was wrong with his body wasn't the right way to go, and admitted that transparency in such issues should be more important going forward. He talked about his frustration with his public perception but understood it to a point. And he sounds confident about coming into spring training healthy and fully prepared for a summer long campaign. Let's hope so.
  • Terry Ryan spoke with a select and lucky few yesterday as well, covering a number of topics in an interview moderated by Dick Bremer. Ryan expressed again the team's interest in Matt Capps, and of course outfielders Michael Cuddyer and Jason Kubel. Cuddyer seems to have the focus between those two, and in spite of what Ryan said it seems highly unlikely that both would return. Essentially it sounds like the Twins are waiting to hear what each player is expecting to get paid. The last most interesting topic was Francisco Liriano. Ryan agreed that a lot of his issues are mental as opposed to physical, and expressed that Liriano needs to be more consistent (along with the rest of the rotation, with the exception of Carl Pavano).
  • Last night we heard about Minnesota's interest in Edwin Jackson and Jeff Francis. Jackson, who doesn't profile as a typical Twins free agent target, is a #2 or #3 starter who is likely to garner an eight digit yearly salary. That's a price tag that the Twins can't afford. It's an interesting idea though, because Jackson is enigmatic like Liriano; he throws hard, has electric stuff and at times shows flashes of ace-type stuff, but he can also lose command and become very hittable. If someone wants to shine Jackson, they'll be paying for his upside. His upside is worth that eight digit salary. With the exception of his ERA and innings pitched, he wasn't that guy last year.
  • Francis, meanwhile, looked like he was going to be a star in the minor leagues. From 2002 to 2004 he was rocketing to the Majors with a bullet. In his minor league career he's tossed 375 innings of 2.57 ERA baseball, striking out 415 and allowing exactly one base runner per inning. Suffice it to say his MLB career hasn't been quite as stellar. He's now a soft-tossing lefty (fastball averaged less than 85mph in 2011) who can't strike anyone out (4.5 K/9), and who has averaged 108 innings per season since 2007. If you get what you pay for, paying for Francis means you're signing a pitcher just to sign a pitcher. Nothing more.
  • On a final note, Mauer told MLB.com's Rhett Bollinger that he's willing to help recruit free agents to Minnesota. I think that's a good thing, and provided that Mauer doesn't bore them to death it would probably help a great deal. Visiting players like to know that a team's superstars like playing for that club, and having Mauer be that guy would be great.

Enjoy your Saturday, folks. I'm going to get a haircut.

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"Twins Cities"

I like it. I liked Thome’s “TWINNED CITIES” better, but “Twins Cities” has a good ring to it too.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 3, 2011 12:11 PM EST reply actions  

Francis

Kind of wonder what happened to Francis… Did he lose some velocity somehow that he cannot strike guys out anymore?

by diehardtwinsfan on Dec 3, 2011 12:23 PM EST reply actions  

Coors

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 3, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I want Francis

For the pictures, clips and other references from Pee-Wee’s Big adventure

by clutterheart on Dec 3, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

That is a nice photoshop

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Dec 3, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Its not photoshop

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 3, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure #4 is reserved

For Brett Favre being our 2012 closer.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 3, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Joe Mauer "Recruiting" means:

Busting out a bottle of the Trop

Then showing off his bobblehead collection:

And going crazy by reading the “Dear Abby” section of the paper (Momma Mauer says those stories can be a bad influence to boys sometimes…)

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 3, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I thought it would go more like...

Favre: Do I want to play for the Twins? Of course I want to play for the Twins, I […continues].

Mauer: /yawn

Favre: Do I think I can come back and do the job? Well, I think my arm […continues]

Mauer: /blink

/10 hours pass

Favre: …and that’s why I think it’s a good idea.

Mauer: Wait, I lost track of what you were saying 7 hours ago but I’m too polite to interrupt.

by spanspanspan on Dec 3, 2011 6:20 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Huh... he takes his eggs out of the carton and put them in those little whole things?

I didn’t know anyone actually did that. Is that better for the eggs or is it just a cosmetic thing.

by DavidRF on Dec 4, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Makes it more convenient to grab an egg

That’s the only reason I can think of. I tried doing it once, but found the eggs would fall out if I opened or closed the door too fast. :(

by spanspanspan on Dec 4, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it saves space in the fridge -- no needless carton!

But my observation is that his bobblehead collection is pretty weak. Or at least, it looks that way in such a large display case. You make $23 million a year, Joe! Fill those shelves! (And if Joe ever reads this, he can buy my 1991 set for the price of taking me to dinner and playing a game of catch at Target Field. Offer only valid for Joe Mauer.)

by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 5, 2011 2:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Looking at some of the pick-up's

we signed, Jason Bulger looks like he might have a chance to make to relief squad.

by b1 on Dec 3, 2011 1:03 PM EST reply actions  

He's a good upside pickup.

If he does nothing, then no harm no foul.

by Jesse on Dec 3, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

So if we don't sign any big free agents, we can blame Mauer.

"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez

by myjah on Dec 3, 2011 1:23 PM EST reply actions  

"That's a price tag that the Twins can't afford"

No.
They can afford it. But instead the decided to cut payroll in year three of a new stadium.

by clutterheart on Dec 3, 2011 7:05 PM EST reply actions  

Also an interesting point.

If the Twins really are interested in Jackson, in bringing Cuddyer back, if they made a legit offer to Nathan and Capuano, and if they plan on putting a winning product on the field like they’ve talked about…then $100 million really isn’t in the picture.

In Ryan’s conference call yesterday, he went as high as $118 when talking about payroll.

Long story short: it’s not fair to criticize the front office for cutting back payroll until it actually happens.

by Jesse on Dec 3, 2011 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a good point.

I don’t care where the actual payroll ends up. If they get what they need for under that figure, fine. It’s just good to see there’s flexibility, even into franchise-high numbers.

by spanspanspan on Dec 3, 2011 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

But let’s say people criticize the front office for cutting payroll and we win the World Series.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Dec 3, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Then Kudos to the Front Office

But not a very likely scenario. Typically if a team has the ability to cut payroll (or maintain a low payroll) and continue to win then they have a well stocked farm system. Something the Twins no longer have the luxury of having.

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 3, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

But

We can still cut payroll and have a decent season even winning the World Series in the process. First Justin Morneau retires and then we spend lightly even making a trade for a cheap ace in the process. What you are proposing is that the Twins do a somewhat complete overhaul of the team provided somebody eats Joe Mauer’s contract.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Dec 4, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

A little early to count out Morneau

So far he’s had no problems in his workouts.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 4, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

OK I should know better than to ask this of Jessy S. but...

How do you propose the Twins CUT payroll and win a World Series? Who goes and who comes? It seems the only way to get reasonable to good players at a good price is to have young players. How do you cut payroll without a major roster overhaul? I’m not sure I understand your premise. A “cheap” ace? Who qualifies? Morneau is gone so who do we have fill in as a power hitter/gold glove cheap at 1B? A trade? For who? What do we have to trade with that doesn’t hurt our chances by losing them?

Jessy S. once again you have thoroughly confused me with your Nort Duhkota wits.

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 4, 2011 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really

A cheap ace would be the cream of Oakland’s starting staff. Also we can sign or trade for Tim Wakefield and or Jamie Moyer on the cheap. Finally Chris Parmelee can play first base for us. Besides that, we don’t need any stinking Michael Cuddyer or Jason Kubel. Even if the Twins do cut payroll, they will not go below $90 million.

What you stated above was a drastic housecleaning like what happened in 1982. In this case, we wouldn’t even be able to afford Joe Mauer at $23 million per year. All I am expecting is a possible payroll cut to about $100 million, which could happen. Even $90 million could be a target if we are able to get rid of Nick Blackburn and Scott Baker and throw Nishi into the mix as well.

BTW, you implied that the Twins would pretty much slash payroll to about $40 million.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Dec 4, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not exactly sure how I implied that...

All I said was that a team with a well stocked farm system is capable of cutting payroll and still being successful. You are saying we should get rid of Baker, Nishi, Blackburn, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel and bring in Wakefield, Moyer, (any other geriatric pitchers you’d like to bring in?) and Parmelee.

Who exactly was cleaning house?

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 4, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

It depends on the defination of success

But I do somewhat admit that I was cleaning house. But don’t most teams do so at this time of year?

If Wakefield and Moyer want to pitch, we should let them. The truth is that I do consider Cuddyer and Kubel gone, but they are free agents and could be out the door soon. If they are gone, then Gardy has no choice but to use a young outfielder such as Rene Tosoni or Trevor Plouffe. If not for Bill Smith and his hope of trading for “bullpen help,” both Cuddyer and Kubel would have been gone at the trade deadline last season.

BTW, if you do cut payroll and want to rely on the farm system, you better hope that the players can do their job. Even if a player happens to be a can’t miss prospect in Triple A, he might flame out in the majors. Have a bunch of flameouts, then you get the situation the Twins had in the late 1990’s.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Dec 4, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I would actually consider Moyer

if the Twins traded Pavano. Having more than one of Pavano, Moyer, and Wakefield would be a mistake.

by Caleb A on Dec 5, 2011 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Well, that would help on saving money

But you think Parmalee starts on a championship team?

by amiller92 on Dec 5, 2011 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

September is a chimera

I was pleasantly surprised by his performance. But I wouldn’t expect him to repeat it. He was hot. Benson was cold (at least to start). I’d like to see both play a whole season in the bigs before I pass judgement of whether they can help the team win a championship. Until then, we have a first baseman and his name is Justin Morneau.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 5, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 3, 2011 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmm

I remember the team making token offers to Hunter and trading Santana for pieces of used bubblegum stuck to the Metrodome dugout ceiling. It wouldn’t be out of character for a Ryan-led organization to make noise about free agents and re-signing guys, while doing nothing and cashing in on new stadium money. That’s not unfair; it’s recent team history. I hope you’re right, and all that cash provided by the taxpayers of Hennepin County goes into player pockets and not the Pohlads’. I don’t think it’s off base to be worried. If you gave me money to raise my 17 illegitimate children (someone please do!), you’d be well within your rights to be suspicious of where I’m spending it until I prove I’m doing what you intended me to do.

Steve Goodman lives.

by twinsbrewer on Dec 3, 2011 9:57 PM EST up reply actions  

The moves you mention happened on Smith's watch

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 3, 2011 11:11 PM EST up reply actions  

"token?"

Reports were they offered santana $20 mil per ($100 mil total?). That’s not token.

And same with Torii. You think they should have feared him the $18 mil per he got? Really?

by amiller92 on Dec 4, 2011 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

By “token” I think people mean “offers that weren’t good enough to keep them in Minnesota”.

If the Twins had offered those guys enough to stay, at the time, their salaries would have crippled the team. Minnesota offered those players what they thought they were worth, and they were fair enough offers. But the Angels blew EVERYONE away with their 5-$90 offer to Hunter, and Santana wanted a longer deal than the Twins offered.

by Jesse on Dec 4, 2011 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

That's right

Santana was talking A-Rod dollars, which is how he scared away both Boston and New York and came within an hour of scuttling the deal with the Mets.

We offered Torii something like 4/48 with incentives, which was what he was worth to us. Not chump change by any stretch.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 4, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

"A-Rod dollars"?? "4/48" for Hunter?

Do you just like pulling ‘facts’ out of thin air, do you think nobody on this sight will call you on it, or you actully believe the bogus info you post on a daily basis?

In fact, the Twins offered Hunter 3/45. Do some research next time, please.

by USAFChief on Dec 5, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Do some research next time, please.

Show me the links before you act like the oracle of baseball.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 5, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Ambiguity!

Joe C says 3/45, Rosenthal says 4/56. Dunno which is correct, and I don’t feel like digging any deeper.

by archie2227 on Dec 5, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking of the Rosenthal numbers

But the four-year offer included a lot of incentives for games played, All-Star appearances, and such. What the Twins were on the hook for was closer to $48 mil.

Also, the Santana quote came from a story by Peter Gammons (can’t find it right now). He said Santana was asking to be the “highest paid player in baseball.” At the time, that was A-Rod, at $28 mil a year. He ultimately got something like 6/137.5 from the Mets. But there were lots of incentives and a club option. Also, the contract was progressive and at least one of the years was at $28 mil, if he earns all his incentives (including a silver slugger award (!)).

These contracts get pretty complex as far as the best case/worst case for the team and player. Throwing out a ballpark number from four years ago should not generate a nasty response.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 5, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Payroll is very doable IMO...

if it’s something like that. Here’s what I’d do (and even Willingham and/or Jones are almost not essential since I believe Parmelee and Benson can both provide at least good platoon options by June or July at the latest.

Trade Pavano for Street and a prospect; save $1.5M
Trade Blackburn for a reliever, eating some of his contract; save $2M
Sign Michael Wuertz (2 reliever spots filled, above) for $1M/1 yr
Resign Kubel to a 3-year deal worth around $21M. Have him play 1b/DH/RF.
Sign Edwin Jackson; 3 years/$30M.
Sign Josh Willingham to a 1-year deal worth $7M.
Sign Rich Harden to a 1-year deal for around $4M.
Sign platoon bench bat (Andruw Jones?) for $2.5M.
Extend Liriano for 4 years/$40M.

Lineup: Span-CF-$3M, Carroll-SS-$2.75M, Mauer-C-$23M, Morneau-DH/1b-$15M, Kubel-DH/1b/RF-$7M (extension estimate), Willingham-LF/DH/1b-$7M (signing estimate), Doumit-RF/DH/1b-$3M, Valencia-3b-$500K, Casilla-2b-$1.5M (arb estimate)
Total: $62.75M
Bench: 4th OF-Revere-$500K, backup INF/OF-Plouffe-$500K, backup MI-Tsuyoshi Nishioka-$3M, Andruw Jones-$2.5M, Luke Hughes-$500K
Total: $7M
Rotation: Liriano-$8M (1st year of extension; slight raise over likely arb figure), Baker-$6.5M, Jackson-$10M, Harden-$3M, Slowey-$3M (arb estimate)
Total: $30.5M with Hendriks/Swarzak/Duensing as rotation depth when injury hits.
Bullpen: Street-$7.5M, Perkins-$1.5M (arb estimate), Wuertz-$1M, NL reliever from Blackburn deal-$3M ($1M plus some money for Blackburn contract), Mijares-$750K (arb estimate), Duensing-$500K, 1 of about 10 options from Swarzak/Hendriks/Gutierrez/Burnett/Bulger/Manship/Waldrop/Guerra-$500K
Total: $14.75M
Total payroll: $115M including all outgoing money in trades, plus extensions, etc.

by DJSkillz on Dec 3, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Opps, I see you mentioned eating some $$$.

But I still don’t see it happening. Although I’d agree to his trade.

by b1 on Dec 4, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

What were our last expensive free agents (that weren't re-signs)

We took back Aguilera for $3.5M in the winter of 95-96. Molitor was the same off-season and a little bit less than that. That was back when that was a lot of money.

Recently, there’s Nishi deal 3 yr/$9M but that’s the average salary in MLB now. Going back, Livian was $5M in 2008. Mike Lamb was 2 yr/$7M that year. I’m drawing a blank before that and I don’t have a slick way to search for these. Any upper-single-digit or lower-double-digit per year guys that I’m forgetting?

Feels like its been a while since we paid big for someone that wasn’t our own.

by DavidRF on Dec 4, 2011 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

We might pay big for somebody this week.

Not a CJ Wilson signing, for the record, but we could snag in the $100 million total range. But it could be somebody we can afford since Cuddyer and Kubel are likely coming off the books.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Dec 4, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, to answer your question

I think the last time the Twins might have really paid big for somebody not our own was when they signed Chili Davis to a two year deal prior to the 1991 season.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Dec 4, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking Pavano, but he came over in a trade originally which I had totally forgotten about

I don’t think the Twins have ever paid a guy double digit millions a year that wasn’t a re-sign.

by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 5, 2011 3:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Manny at SS?

Manny Ramirez Applying For Reinstatement From Retired List

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 4, 2011 4:44 PM EST reply actions  

Flagged

Remember, remember the seventh of November.

by Go Twins! on Dec 4, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed

Less Cowbell must be in the flagged members hall of fame.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!

Check out my eBay items.

by Jessy S on Dec 4, 2011 9:17 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Ironically rec'd for the irony of that comment.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 5, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions  

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