Winter Meetings Monday Evening Update
by Jon Marthaler on Dec 5, 2011 6:53 PM EST
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PrintUpdate, 7:50pm
The Braves are shopping Jair Jurrjens to eight to ten teams, and Martin Prado to even more. Minnesota has to be involved on some level, right? Right?
Let's update on the latest on any number of Twins targets, as the first day of the Winter Meetings rolls on.
Matt Capps
Jon Heyman of SI.com says it's official: the team has re-signed Matt Capps. The deal's apparently for one year and an option. The Twins will not, of course, receive a draft pick as compensation. OUR VIEW: This is one year and an option year too long, plus there's one too few draft pick in the deal.
You know, you wouldn't necessarily think that a 99-loss team would spend so much time trying to retain its own players, would you?
Josh Willingham / Michael Cuddyer
It seems the Twins are trying to push Cuddyer into a decision by courting Willingham. MLB.com's Rhett Bollinger says the team will meet with Willingham's agent, Matt Sosnick, on Thursday - IF the club doesn't reach a deal with Cuddyer first. Bollinger also tweets that the team has not yet met with Cuddyer's agent, Casey Close, but will "soon." It feels to me right now like the Twins have the leverage - Willingham and Cuddyer are the same age, Willingham can hit both lefties and righties, and re-signing Cuddyer would cost the Twins the draft pick they'd get if he signed elsewhere. One begins to get the idea that Cuddyer's in the same boat as Carl Pavano last year - high hopes that end in taking few years back with the same team as before.
Mark Buehrle
Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that the Twins have made an offer to Buehrle, but it's not as strong as those from the Marlins, Rangers, and Nationals. Buehrle wants a no-trade clause, which the Marlins won't give him, but the Nationals want him badly and the Rangers have all sorts of TV money to throw around, so I'm not sure the Twins' lowball offer strategy is going to work. We will see.
Pedro Florimon
The Twins claimed Baltimore's Double-A shortstop off waivers, according to Bollinger via MLB Trade Rumors. Florimon is "flashy but erratic," writes Tim Dierkes, so I guess the Twins have a Carlos Gomez in the system at shortstop now.
Carlos Guillen
As we mentioned before, the Twins apparently have contacted his agent, according to ESPN Deportes via MLBTR. Guillen is old (36) and probably got hurt right now as I just typed this. I get the feeling that this is the Twins doing their homework in case they manage to miss out on Willingham, Cuddyer, AND Jason Kubel. Also, for humor purposes I would like to refer to Guillen as "Otis Nixon Mark 2" from now on.
Jason Kubel
Phil Mackey of 1500 ESPN tweets that the Twins have met with his agent. We've heard surprisingly little about Kubel so far. His agent must be just as loquacious as Kubel is.
Kevin Slowey
John Shipley, from the Pioneer Press, tweets that Terry Ryan says the team is considering him as a starter. This is probably good; Slowey makes a better terrible starter than he does a terrible reliever.
Hisashi Iwakuma / Tsuyoshi Wada
Bollinger says the team has talked to the agents of both Japanese pitchers. Hopefully those were some routine talks.
Everybody
The Marlins are making a big push to sign him. Sign who? It doesn't matter. They're trying to get ahold of Christ's agent just to see what it would take to sign him. They're in on everybody. Their payroll could end up being $250 million next year.
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The Capps signing
pushes me firmly into the Willingham camp. I’d have been fine with Cuddy if we still got the pick for Capps, but a team that needs to make up for a few meh drafts from the mid 2000s can’t give away 3 top 75 picks.
by archie2227 on Dec 5, 2011 6:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Same here.
Continuing to re-stock the system is always a priority, but this is a real opportunity for the Twins to be gifted an extra couple of picks. Willingham, I’m on board with, because like I said he can hit pitchers from both sides.
Oh,
and I’m really curious to see where Capps salary comes in. I have a gut feeling that we won’t be happy.
I am not happy with the Capps signing either.
I am guessing Gardy likes him.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
True
But doesn’t everybody?
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I meant everybody else on the team.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Mijares.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 5, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
At least Mijares is pitching
All Gardy does is take walks. To and from the pitching mound and to and from the clubhouse.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
If it ends up being that they re-sign Capps and not Cuddyer I'm going to...
… shake my fist angrily. Aw, heck, I’ll do that over the Capps signing regardless.
*shakes fist angrily*
Shake HARDER!!!
* shakes fist angrilier *
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 5, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
This is me right now
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
I won't hate the Capps signing
until we find out how much money it was for
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Dec 5, 2011 7:05 PM EST reply actions
I'm gonna go ahead and hate it anyway.
There’s more to life than money.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 5, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ditto
While 2010 was a much better year, I’d take a happy medium of 2010/2011 if its around the 2M or so mark.
by Black Metallic on Dec 5, 2011 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Just saw he got
4.75M with a 6M option / 250K buy out.
2010 Capps – worth is.
2011 Capps – we know how that ends.
2012 Capps? I’ll wager top 10 Closer, then maybe he’s worth it.
Although I do like the fact he’s got a decent price for half a season if we need to trade him.
by Black Metallic on Dec 5, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Not me
I hate the Capps signing if it was for $5.23 and a bag of chili cheese Fritos.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Two things I want to know.
Is how much he signed for?
and
Is he closing?
It better be for Cheap
otherwise WHY THE HECK NOT BRING in Lidge, Coffey, Dotel….whoever?
Yoenis Cespedes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9ge8l3jY8
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 5, 2011 7:08 PM EST reply actions
The devil is in the draft picks
"I couldn't do that. Could you do that? Why can they do it? Who are those guys?"
Lets guess how much???
I’m going to say 6 mil per year.
Tough to say
Would we be happy with 3 mil, option of 2.5 or vice versa?
But would Capps take it?
by twinscrazy_german on Dec 5, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
$24M
Take some of the heat off of lazy Joe.
Then we should just be like Miami
Sign everybody including the Pope, the Dali Lama, and President Obama.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
You forgot Kim Jong Ill
With the way he plays golf, I bet can be awesome at hitting a ball with a wooden bat too!
by twinscrazy_german on Dec 5, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
With that logic
Bill Clinton would make a great DH, but I am partial to George H. W. Bush.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
But surely, Clinton doesn't shoot 38 under par
IN HIS FIRST TIME GOLFING
The “Dear Leader” routinely shoots three or four holes-in-one per round, the government-controlled media reported.
by twinscrazy_german on Dec 5, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Then
Kim Jong III should be in the Masters. What better way to promote Jihad than to embarrass the Americans on their own soil.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Boy am I hoping you are just pretending to ignorant.
by twinscrazy_german on Dec 5, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
Jessy S. doesn't pretend.
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
by Go Twins! on Dec 5, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I know
Just thinking North Korean.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Why not,
But it is with golf clubs and not bombs.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
At least Capps isn't going around getting kidnapped every day
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Dec 5, 2011 7:11 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Not a good analogy
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
A point for Bill Smith.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 5, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bring him back!!
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Dec 5, 2011 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like a party!
Capps as a special guest.
by Pohshow on Dec 5, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As long as Capps doesn't pitch next year,
I am okay with his re-signing.
Reduce turnovers, reduce personal fouls, shoot better, win.
by PoohRubio on Dec 5, 2011 7:24 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
If Albert Pujols goes to Miami
I hope he hosts a 1 hour special on ESPN called “The Decision” ….
Oh wait that was the other Miami Sports team’s star…
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
No thanks
That was a special put together by LeBron’s agent and ESPN with Jim Grey doing the interview.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
What a dumb move
Capps would have to sign for < $1M to make this a good idea. The Twins are going to make him the closer if Gardy’s the manager. Might as well cancel my Dish Network now because I’m not going to want to watch that.
How I’m handling the Capps signing…
Everyone cringed at Perkins last year and that worked out OK. I have to just cross my fingers and hope Terry Ryan knows what he’s doing. I’ve also been accused of living in denial lately.
Serenity now,
Insanity later.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 5, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
True
That is until Matt Capps comes in with a fresh 9th inning with a three run lead and leaves with the loss.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
This tweet by Mackey made me /headdesk
I asked Terry how much #Twins consider draft compensation w/ FA decisions: “Not that much. We’ll take it. But we’d rather have the player.”
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Well
We fans might overvalue draft picks. The odds that the pick we would’ve gotten for Capps would turn out to be more valuable than 2 years of Capps at ages 28 and 29 are probably slim. And it wouldn’t help the team this year at all. It seems that the Twins still think they can compete so they need bullpen arms.
I also wonder if the Twins are hedging their bets until they know how the new draft pick compensation thing will work in practice. I think it’ll help them at the top of the draft but might hurt them at the bottom of the draft. Last year we went over slot for both of our supp picks. This year it would be likely Boyd and Harrison went to college instead.
Since 1990 the Twins have had (by my count) 18 Compensation Picks
8 of those are still in the Twins system (Shooter Hunt, Carlos Gutierrez, Hudson Boyd, Travis Harrison, Hank Sanchez, Kyle Waldrop and Jay Rainville) Another was claimed off of waivers by the BoSox and is now in the Mariners org (Matt Fox)
2 of the remaining 9 have had WAR greater than 3 over their careers:
Torii Hunter (36.2 Career WAR)
Glen Perkins (3.9 Career WAR)
Matthew LeCroy was also a “decent” supplemental pick.
Personally, I would take a compensation pick that is likely to become an major leaguer in the future over another season of Matt Capps’ garbage out of the ‘pen. I doubt the changes to supplemental picks are going to be as drastic as you’re implying. Is there a chance we could lose a guy who would be picked in the supplemental rounds? Sure. But more often than not we’re going to get the guy we pick.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Whoops, you would be correct.
I didn’t looks that closely at the B-R page.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
I think Hank Sanchez was dropped as well.
"I couldn't do that. Could you do that? Why can they do it? Who are those guys?"
this is a completely false choice though...
it is not a choice of Capps vs. draft picks. It’s a choice of a similar player/money to Capps AND draft picks.
Correction
In the case of Capps it may be the case of a BETTER player for the money, and a draft pick.
agreed...
Broxton contract is exhibit A. Would ANYONE on here really rather have Capps than Broxton? And Broxton will make less, and without the option for 2013.
by DJSkillz on Dec 5, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Basically what I said on twitter to Jesse
Broxton will be a great reliever or a guy that’s hurt and doesn’t pitch. Or anywhere in between. Capps is a safe bet to be average. Personally, I’d rather swing for the fences on a one year deal, but I understand wanting to mitigate risk with the Twins pen. This also doesn’t take into account the pick or the option. Both of which matter.
You just gave me 4.75 million reasons
to bang my head off a wall
JIM JAMS BUSINESS IS MASHING TATERS, AND BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!
by MashinTaters on Dec 6, 2011 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
There's an argument
Over the last two years, Broxton has thrown 75ip, 90 ERA+, -.5WAR, converted 78% of his saves and let 42% of his IR scores.
Capps has thrown 138ip, 122 ERA+, 2.5 WAR, converted 79% of his saves and let 26% of his IR score.
Maybe Broxton rebounds from his injury but maybe Capps does too.
I'm over WAR for pitchers
Check his fangraphs numbers. Granted, I’m more skeptical of fangraphs when it comes to pitchers’ WAR. Frankie had a good 2010, but it wasn’t that good.
Frankie had one of the 10 best seasons in baseball...
in 2010 for a starting pitcher.
bb-ref gives him 3.8
fangraphs gives him 6. I’m with ya on Frankie, I really think he can have a big year, but is it that big a stretch to say he was a 4.5 win player in 2010? rather than a 5.5-6 win player.
no, that's fair...
i’m not a big fan of war either. it’s useful, but highly skewed/flawed too.
I agree about WAR
but if I post something without it, someone will say “you didn’t use WAR!” The point I was trying to make was that Capps, over the last two years ate more innings than Broxton, had a better ERA and was better at a relievers job – stranding runners and converting saves. “Advanced stats” like WAR and WPA were also in his favor.
Twins were interested in Harang, too.
Sounds like he’s on his way to the Dodgers.
It’s beginning to look like the Twins would rather not have a free agent than overpay for one. They were short on Capuano, their offer for Buehrle isn’t as strong as the rest of the field, and it sounds like they were short on Harang, too.
I'm OK with that line of thinking
And even more so until we know just how special our two previous MVP’s will be this year. No sense in paying 115M or so for a 500 team. A flashback to 1990 and then 1991 doesn’t hurt either…
Then again I’m old and senile that way too.
by Black Metallic on Dec 5, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
Given that they can't expect to compete for the WS after last year and next years seems kind of like a transition year, this might very well be the smart move.
by twinscrazy_german on Dec 5, 2011 8:13 PM EST reply actions
I hope Capps' contract is cheaper than signing a draft pick,
and waiting 3-5 years to make it to the majors.
I guess it doesn't necessarily have to be cheaper, but more worthwhile, if that makes sense.
The Twins would rather have a MLB-proven reliever than wait a few years to see if the draft pick pays off.
Keep in mind, I fall in love with the MLB and NBA drafts every year. Potential!
They could have had both
It’s not like Capps was the only reliever they could have obtained for that money. They could have signed someone else and kept the pick.
exactly...
mentioned this above. it is NOT a choice between Capps and picks. Similar players could be signed for similar money, or even less (someone without closing “experience” for instance). AND you get picks. False choice to make it about the player vs. the picks.
Same for Cuddyer/Willingham. It’s not a choice between Cuddy and picks. It’s a choice between Cuddy vs. Willingham AND 2 top 40 picks. Obviously the latter is FARRRRRRR better.
I have no faith in this franchise to sign anybody decent.
We are going to have a rehash of last season.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
Ma-tt Ca-pps
(Clap clap, clap-clap-OW)
Fifth and final clap omitted because the fan next to me just frove a railroad spike into my skull.
Steve Goodman lives.
by twinsbrewer on Dec 5, 2011 8:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Simmer down about the Matt Capps signing
People are acting like he was horrid last year. He actually had some good moments and ended the season strong. It’s all about the money like others suggested. If it’s less than 3 million that’s a solid signing and only a one year commitment. If it’s more up in the 5-6 range then it’s asinine. Yes I just said asinine.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
I agree
Remember at the beginning of the year when our entire lineup and pitching staff was absolutely awful. Everyone was saying, “Well at least Matt Capps is doing well.” Sure, we know what eventually happened…..but we’re acting like Bill Smith made this deal.
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Dec 5, 2011 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
When was that?
The numbers only tell part of the story. He blew nearly as many saves as he converted, when you count the games in which he blew two saves in one game.
He gave up an incredible number of inherited runners. His record in games with the lead was horrific, truly RDesque. He did much better when we were behind. So his numbers in those games was good. But we’re not paying him mop-up money.
I was so hopeful Ryan would turn this thing around. Oh well. It was fun hoping.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Like I said, we are going to have a re-hash of last year.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
Only 26% of his IR scored
That’s actually pretty good. And JKB is referring to Capps early season pitching when he was our best BP arm. In April he came in 4x with either two runners on or pitched more than an inning for us. He had nearly a .5 WPA in those appearances. And as Nicks Twins blog noted last week, Capps pitched injured part of last season which affected his performance.
So they gave a guy coming off an injury big money?
None of this makes any sense at all. Saying he was injured last season makes this idea even worse.
I guess
4.5 for your closer, at age 28, doesn’t seem too out of line to me but I certainly understand the general sentiment here. Wonder what the reaction would’ve been if Smith made this move?
Might as well
just go ahead and pick up the option now… smh
err... sorry
$4.5M with a $6M option for next year or a $275,000 buyout.
As to Matt Capps...
If you dislike the signing because he generally sucks and was a 9th inning terror, then that is fine and makes sense to me.
If you dislike the signing because we lose some 90th+ draft pick, then you may need to take stock of your priorities in life.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
"take stock of your priorities in life"
Might be one of the most ironic statements ever posted on an internet forum. Oh, sorta douchy, too
by archie2227 on Dec 5, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe not my finest hour, but just the way I have been feeling lately.
Too much whining about supplemental picks like they always pan out or something.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
I'd rather have a lottery ticket
than pay $4.5M to have Capps in the ’pen.
I, for one
kinda like the tone of what you said. and for anyone who is that offended by a comment, they also might consider the original advice in regards to that particular situation.
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Dec 5, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Watch it
Or I’ll have that waitress mess with your food.
It's okay
I overtip, and the places I frequent all know that.
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Dec 5, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Just remembering
that the threat was made to cease tipping entirely over a gamethread comment. Hi Pot, I’m Kettle.
well, to put it in perspective
losing a 65th to 90th pick in the draft bothers me less than having a server wipe their ass with my french toast
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Dec 5, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
That's not what was said
and it still is an example of an overreaction to a purely anecdotal comment on the interwebz
True
the comment just put that picture in my head, and the day I read it, I’d had a bad restaurant experience which resulted in my having to complain to management, which is not my norm.
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Dec 5, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
Also
for a more baseball-y rebuttal. The Twins have a pretty obvious talent gap between the low minors and high minors. All of their top prospects currently sit below AA (minus the injured pitchers). They wouldn’t even have a couple of those talented guys without international signings. The only way to restock the system is through the draft—especially with the new limits on international signings. That doesn’t happen when you toss away picks to re-sign an average reliever for 2nd rate closer money. In short, try to be a bit more like the Rays.
Oops forgot Benson
and fringy propects like Dozier and Parmelee.
The Rays sucked for a decade and tons of really high first round picks. Not sure I want to go that route either.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
I more meant
Rays of last year where they had a ton of early-ish picks from letting their FAs sign elsewhere. Once success hits you can’t get those top picks, but you can increase your odds of finding talent by giving yourselves more lottery tickets.
this is stupid...
having more picks, and opportunities for good, cheap talent is NEVER a bad thing. Never. The Twins should not just be throwing away assets. If they re-sign Cuddyer they will have essentially thrown away 7 top 60 draft picks in 2 years. That’s beyond assinine.
Draft picks become MORE valuable with strict slotting
Those 2nd round and sandwich picks are going to have to sign for $200k or go back to school. There’s really no way a team can lose for that small outlay.
by DJL44 on Dec 5, 2011 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed completely..
the Twins are idiots for not valuing those assets properly. Those will be paying big dividends in the years ahead for the Rays and Jays, for instance.
This is so overly simplistic...
I do not agree with the signing, but to call the Twins idiots for “not valuing those assets properly” because of the signing is over the top hyperbole.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
by darren004 on Dec 6, 2011 7:21 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Obviously having more picks is going to be better in general.
But every single transaction made cannot be made with that thought in mind. Don’t get me wrong, I abhor this signing, but I abhor it because it means another season of him pitching for the Twins, not because we lose the chance to make a pick that has some 10% odds of even being as good as Capps.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
you are wrong...
10% odds of being as good as Capps?
you’re making this a choice between a player and picks. it’s not; it’s a choice between a comparable player for comparable money (in this case Broxton, Dotel, Saito, etc.) AND picks. your logic is really flawed.
Every transaction must be made with that spot in mind.
Unlike players, picks are basically directly convertible to money. Current research suggests that a supplemental pick is worth about $2.6m. So basically they’re paying Capps $7.35m.
Is the hypothetical server a female, wearing wool?
I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.
by montanatwinsfan on Dec 6, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
just sayin'
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Dec 5, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
The Twins made that calculation
You (or I, or all the posters here) may not agree with how they calculated variables like costs, alternatives, how competitive we will be next season, depth of next years draft, attendance, # of BP arms needed, etc. But the FO does valuations like that all the time. That’s why Twinkie Town was so happy to have Ryan back. Nice douchy post though.
Can I be both?
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Can I dislike it for both reasons?
It’s too much money
Capps isn’t all that good
There are plenty of other relievers available, they might have been able to find 2 just as good for the same money
Oh, AND they threw away a decent draft pick
There are MANY reasons to hate this move.
Can I remind everyone that Swarzak pitched as well as Capps last season?
That disregards
the new system in place for signing draft picks to slot.
$4.775 million?
That’s nuts. Crazy. Half a year of Jason Kubel down the drain for a completely fungible commodity.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
Anybody else miss Crainwreck?
3/13 sounds way better than Capps 2/11.75 or possible 3/17.75.
I truly wonder...
…how Capps convinced himself to return to a fanbase that absolutely despises him. It can’t be just about the money. It just can’t be. He had to talk himself into it somehow.
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Dec 5, 2011 9:23 PM EST reply actions
I think 95% of players spend exactly zero time thinking about things like that
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 5, 2011 9:25 PM EST up reply actions
Except when they get booed every night for half a season
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
seriously
he got booed HARD, on a regular basis. I know because I was one of the people booing him until my voice hurt.
You’d think that at some point, especially coming off a 99 loss season, a player so hated by his fans would look for a fresh start.
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Dec 5, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
Or he was looking for, you know
nearly $5 million.
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 5, 2011 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Me too
I was booing so loud, he could hear me through the TV. My dog would go upstairs and hide under the bed every time he came in.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
maybe he wants to redeem himself
Maybe he doesn’t care about winning, or proving that he’s a better pitcher than 2011, or just simply taking the ball and “getting it right”….maybe it is just about the money. But the optimist in me hopes part of him is out to prove all of us wrong. It’s probably in the back of his mind….
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Dec 5, 2011 9:39 PM EST up reply actions
Lets hope we get the 2010 Capps....
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." ~George F. Will
Only 2 months of having to watch him?
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
by Go Twins! on Dec 5, 2011 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Kevin Slowey
I hope the Twins give him another chance. He has put up some great numbers in the minors.
that was sarcasm, right?
oh well, as a starter, he can only kill playoff dreams once every 5 days at the most.
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Dec 5, 2011 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
4.5 for Capps
im assuming that makes him their closer option since they dont usually pay that much for setup men. I would have been ok with bringing him back for 2.5-3 as a 7th inning guy but its a terrible decision to bring him back as the closer at 4.5 and sacrifice the draft pick. I have been on board for the moves this off season so far but defiantly not with this one. One of the biggest organizational flaws is hanging on to guys who had that one good year or preformed in the past.
first-worst-first?
Cappsie
For the second time, I think the Twins have chosen an inferior option and paid pretty good money for the privilege. Looking at the long view, the Twins probably got fair value in re-signing Capps. He’s 28 and had success as recently as 2010. There is a likelyhood that Capps could be traded at the deadline because his contract won’t be excessive.
I would expect Capps to be the closer and for him to be middle-of-the road. If Gutierrez or someone else steps forward and the Twins aren’t contenders, they will have a chance to trade him and net something, perhaps much more than a supplemental pick.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Dec 5, 2011 10:25 PM EST reply actions
They should have given Jonathan Broxton this money instead.
Would have been a better investment than paying Capps like a 2nd-rate closer. Then they still could have brought Capps back, but like a regular middle reliever at $2.5 million.
Maybe they can convert him to starter?
That way we only have to see him suck every 5 days…
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
that's how I feel about Slowey
If we must endure his hipster suckiness, I’d rather it only be about 25 times a year as a number 5 starter than 3 times a week as a reliever
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Dec 5, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
The sky is falling!
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." ~George F. Will
I was actually for signing Capps but I was thinking he could be had for like 2 years and 5-6 million total
not per year. I don’t like the move but I also don’t think it’s as awful as most do. I was happy at 3 million per year the Twins went 1.5 over that and don’t have to make a long term commitment to him. If he sucks this year hopefully someone internal and cheap can step up to take over the closer role and we won’t be locked into a long term contract paying a reliever 10 million a year.
Just take a deep breath and realize it’s one small move. Capps will almost undoubtedly be better next year if he just slips back closer to his career norms.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
It will be 4.75 million for one year
This season and the buyout. I’ll buy you a beer if they pick up that option.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I'll take that bet
I will buy you a beer if they don’t. I’ve got a bad gut feeling on this.
I think the Twins will want to...
but Capps will be so bad and the fan reaction will be so bad (he won’t finish the year at CL IMO) that they’ll be forced not to pick it up.
ERA of 4
will result in a pickup. Not unreasonable.
Look at the inherited runners
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
They keep bringing the guy back
I thought there was no way he was returning yet here he is. I’d say it’s an 80% chance they pick up the option based on their past behavior.
We discovered an Earhlike extrasolar planet. And the NHL made a sensible realignment decision.
I know something bad and utterly predictable had to happen today to balance things out.
by timprov on Dec 5, 2011 11:58 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
We are not done yet.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Smith
Old Billy boy got us good with one more Capps signing!
JIM JAMS BUSINESS IS MASHING TATERS, AND BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!
Oh no! This is Terry Ryan's baby now!
Capps Deal I is Smith’s, this is Capps Deal II, and it belongs to Ryan.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 6, 2011 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
The Twins have shown interest in OF Seth Smith from Colorado
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
DH?
Almost hard to believe he is that bad at D. Hard to say what leaving Coors would do. Guess it depends on the price.
btw
This is the first time I’ve ever heard of this dude.
His home-road splits are pretty drastic
.925 OPS – Home
.750 OPS – Away
Plus he is another lefty.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
In fairness
Almost every rockie player ends up with insane splits. Joe Posnanski wrote about that a couple years ago when considering CarGo (I think) for MVP and he thinks there is a real effect on players playing at Coors. He quoted a Braves player who said something like playing at Coors ruins your swing for a week.
One thing about that rumor
The Rockies want Kevin Slowey. Bad Idea because he hasn’t been lights out at home. What is Kevin going to do in the thin air in Denver? Throw bean balls? If this happens, it could get two GM fired. Colorado’s for getting Slowey and he turns out bad, and Terry Ryan for giving Bert a easy name to pronounce. Seth Smith, BTW, is a good fielder judging from his fielding percentage which is almost perfect.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Well, it's a good thing we don't use fielding percentage to rate players defensive ability anymore.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
Also, in fairness
Advanced defensive stats have struggled rating OF ‘d’ at Coors. In this case, if the Twins scouts say he’s good (or good enough), I’ll believe them. And since this proposed trade would give the Twins three years of cost control over Smith, I’d do it in a minute.
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