Twins & Cuddyer Rumor: Four Years or More Money?
by Jesse on Dec 8, 2011 7:36 PM EST
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For the last few days, Michael Cuddyer has been handling a pair of newborns and considering returning to the organization he's played for his entire career. Over the last few days, the baseball world has been aware of the Twins' three-year, $24/$25 million dollar offer.
Now, according to Lindsay Guentzel, Cuddyer is hoping for a bit more.
This is interesting. I'm a big fan of believing in a player's value, and not going to great measures to stretch that value in order to retain them. So, what's the biggest factor here, if this is true? Is the $2 million the break point, or is it the extra year?
Even more pressing: is that $2 million over the life of the contract, or $2 million per season? An extra $2 million over the life of the contract isn't much of a difference. But $6 million is, and that extra year definitely is.
If this is even true...what do you say, Twins fans?
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If it is just an extra 2 million, I guess it's ok
No way if it is an extra 2 M per year or on the 4th year.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
Ive been against bringing Cuddy back since the season ended
But that was when I thought he would make more in the 12-13 range for 3 or 4 years. I would still prefer to see them move on from him but I wouldn’t mind him coming back at the 3 years 8 per that was offered. I seriously doubt its only 2 million over the life of the contract so 4 years at 8 per or 3 years at 10 per which is enough for me to tip the scales to a no again. Love what he has done for the organization but I would rather see Willingham or a different cheaper option.
first-worst-first?
My only thing with Willingham
is if we do sign him, does that mean that Oakland gets the #2 pick and we get pushed down to the 3 pick in the draft? if that is the case, under no circumstances can we sign a type A free agent. if we were drafting more in the 20 range then yea, go ahead, but we can not let ourselves be pushed lower when in the top 5 and miss out on a potential impact player like that.
Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?
by the Real Thor on Dec 9, 2011 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
Top 15 picks should still be protected
It would push us down in the 2nd round which is after the supplemental round.
New CBA
it now only the top 10 picks that are protected, with that being said we are safe at keeping the top pick
by Blairpaul715 on Dec 10, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
More from Lindsay
For those asking, sounds like $2 million more added to the current package or 4 year deal. And Rockies/Cards aren’t as high up on the list.
"I learned something yesterday. No use in having rules if there's no punishment for breaking them. You'll be fine if you bite down on the trigger. Enjoy your breakfast."
She also said this
Remember #Twins fan, this is the talk. Nothing’s been confirmed.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 8, 2011 8:03 PM EST reply actions
Well this is pretty vague...
So we are going to pay him 24M for 4 years? Deal.
How about we offer a 3 year/24M(as we have) with a club option for an additional year at 7.5M?
Which has to be picked up before the third?
by twinscrazy_german on Dec 9, 2011 6:21 AM EST up reply actions
No
I think the previous option deal was the result of his arbitration settlement. Normally most options are picked up right after the original contract has expired.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
He knows he can stay here his whole career and become a Twins legend
or leave town to possibly win a World Series
WHAT DO YOU DO, HOT SHOT!!???
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Dec 8, 2011 8:32 PM EST reply actions
2m more
Makes it 9m/season (if original 3/25 is true). That’s a smaller paycut for him. I’d be ok with that.
3/$27
would be alright. Sorta surprised how many people would opt for the 4th year over that.
Now you've made me do the calculation
Google shopping says I can get 10 oz for $14. $2,000,000 gets me approximately 90,000 pounds of jerky. You can get about 72 pounds of meat from a buck according to another website I found…. that’s 1250 deer. DNR says there’s approximately 1,000,000 deer in Minnesota.
$2,000,000 of venison jerky is totally feasible.
And I should clearly stop procrastinating and go back to work.
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 8, 2011 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
You're right
(‘Cause I’m still here looking this stuff up.)
Couldn’t find the water weight of venison, but water weight of beef is ~70%. Assuming similar for deer, it’s about 3000 deer to get $2,000,000 of jerky. And also according to the DNR, there are approximately 100,000 deer harvested in MN annually, so it’s still feasible. Perk is going to be way over his limit, however.
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 8, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
I'm now having a vision...
Of Perk in bright orange deer-hunting gear with one of those hats with ear flaps. He’s bow hunting, of course.
That's not just a vision, apparently
http://victoriatimes.blogspot.com/2010/02/glen-perkins.html
He was bow hunting when the Twins played their last game in the Metrodome.
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 8, 2011 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
New idea
They should sell Glen Perkins Venison Jerky at Target Field. I would totally buy that. (And the stadium inflation would make $2,000,000 of the stuff a lot less deer.)
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 8, 2011 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
I might even have to buy it next time I'm at TF if they'd get that..
and I have venison almost as much as I hate jerky
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Dec 8, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Make sure to drink a lot of milk endorsed by Joe Mauer
And Avoid aspertame laced products.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
how can anyone hate either of those two things...
venison jerky is about the best thing on earth? especially the kind with the pepper jack cheese in the middle of it.
She hates meat.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
well, i'm sorry then...
for your miserable, miserable existence.
:)
Nobody's existence is miserable
If she doesn’t want to eat meat, so be it.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
A day without meat is like a day without sunshine
The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 9, 2011 8:50 AM EST up reply actions
TWSS
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 9, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
True
And God said that man, and woman, shall have dominion over the animals of the earth. That means that we are supposed to slaughter and eat them as food.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
haha I had this same argument with my friend today at lunch
He says its unnatural for someone not to like meat. I’m more of a pasta with maybe some chicken in it and lots of vegetables with fruit on the side kind of girl lol
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
I'm not a huge meat eater as Jessy S said.
I don’t hate all meat… sometimes chicken is pretty ok
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
The key is to try to avoid eating red meat if you want to.
A well cooked beef or pork roast is very good as is chicken and turkey. Also, hamburgers are pretty good as well. Otherwise we should kick you out of the United States and send you over to Italy. You can change your username to ItalianTwinsfan.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Also, eating meat does help to build muscle
In the end, I don’t care what you do, I am just giving you advice.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Uhmm... there are plenty of complete protein sources besides meat
B vitamins, on the other hand, can be a problem for a vegetarian (especially for vegans).
by spanspanspan on Dec 10, 2011 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
True
The main problem is lack of a B12 vitamin. However, she eats some chicken as well as fortified energy bars and milk so B12 likely isn’t a problem for her.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
A person can get complete nutrition from just a few ingredients...
Kale, quinoa, edamame, and brown rice, for example. A couple vitamins and minerals missing there, but it’s almost a complete diet. Supplement with some olive oil and nutritional yeast as a seasoning, and hey I’m a vegan.
I’m not, but it’s not hard. Most vegetarians/vegans I know are actually very unhealthy in terms of what they eat, but they don’t have to be.
by spanspanspan on Dec 10, 2011 4:17 AM EST up reply actions
I love how you guys are discussing my diet like you really know what I eat..
Slow offseason I guess :P
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Dec 10, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I was talking about diet in general
Not your diet :)
by spanspanspan on Dec 10, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
haha touche :)
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Dec 11, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
Somewhat slow Twinsgirl
For the record, we are likely waiting for Prince Fielder to sign so Michael Cuddyer can get any offers to play first base chiefly for any given team. Hopefully either Jason Kubel, Josh Willingham, Andrew Jones, or Johnny Damon make that waiting period moot.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Stalky
Stop talking about her like she’s an object.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Dec 10, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Um,
We were talking about Twinsgirl197’s diet, and she was the one that brought it up.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
actually all I did was mention my not liking meat very much but what ever
it’s fine, I’ve gotten to the point where the stuff on the internet doesn’t bother me unless it’s majorly offensive or like extremely stalkerish like asking me how my lunch was and stating where I ate lunch or something like that. (that happened to me once.. Turned out it was just my friend trying to creep me out… He got smacked for it lol)
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Dec 11, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
I eat tons of protein packed things,
tons of nuts, peanut butter, eggs, and I’m not a total vegetarian, I just don’t find meat to be the most appetizing thing in the world
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Dec 10, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Cause when I think of people who don't like red meat
my mind immediately leaps to the Italians.
by timprov on Dec 10, 2011 4:18 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
I lol'd.
+1
Tomorrow I’m making a bolognese sauce… I wonder what true Italians would think if I didn’t include some red meat.
by spanspanspan on Dec 10, 2011 4:32 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I could live off of Italian food
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Dec 10, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
A big thumbs up to cheese pizza.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I'm more of a pasta person,
school has pizza’d me to death
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Dec 11, 2011 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Just out of Curiosity,
Did you really say that Hamburgers are good nutritionally, or taste wise? I would have to say, That the meats that are the best for you, are meats that are not farm raised. Elk, Moose, Venison, Grouse, Pheasant, Duck, are all more nutritious that Beef. The type of protein found in the animals listed are better, less fat, NO growth hormones. That is probably the biggest point of non farmed animals, nothing that is not natural in them.
Hamburgers are very tasty, but not all that nutritious!
Please try to stay on topic people
When people see new comments on a thread, they expect the comments to be relevant to the thread.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I hate that.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 11, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, Im sorry,
wait, no, I am not sorry for responding to a post on this site that may or may not be relevant to the title you wish to be reading about. There are several worthless comments in this section, Starting with your post.
Flagged
We are a patient group of admins here. A gentle reminder should not result in such a response.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
A gentle reminder?
Okay…. Whatever. Jackass.
Bows actually take a lot of arm strength..
my friend and I were using her bow and it took a lot more muscle than I thought it would anyway.
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
If you read some old stories...
They always knew an archer immediately, because they had ridiculous muscles on the drawing arm and shoulder.
I haven’t shot a bow since boy scouts, but I remember it being a lot harder than I imagined.
Yeah it was crazy.
We were only aiming for a target maybe 30-40 feet away and it felt like my arm was going to fall off after like maybe 6 shots. Granted it was my first time ever shooting anything but still, it was a lot more than I expected
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Dec 8, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Want to see something really crazy?
Watch Robin Hood: Men in Tights. That movie features a scene where Robin shoots a arrow that goes all over the place before finding its target.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I've seen that movie actually...
Gotta love hanging out with my brother’s frat brothers lol
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Dec 8, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Own it
You gotta love the Patriot Arrow!!!! Lol
by holsteinhill on Dec 8, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Close
Perk ‘n Slowey pheasant huntin’ in ND.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 8, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
exhibit 9,212...
that Slowey is NOT an elitist.
Wait, the 100,000 number is the number killed by predators and traffic accidents
Hunters take 200,000 deer. Because I know everyone is worried about the accuracy of my numbers here.
(Can you tell I’m not that interested in getting back to my job?)
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 8, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
It's Coming Right For Us!!!
JIM JAMS BUSINESS IS MASHING TATERS, AND BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!
by MashinTaters on Dec 8, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I love the Uncle Jimbo rule of hunting
Too Bad we can’t shoot Matt Capps.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Actually,
Annual deer harvest in Minnesota is around 200,000. They Estimate 500,000 people hunt and 40% are successful.
Also, It would be illegal For anyone to hunt, Harvest a Wild animal, then sell said animal. If the animal came from a game farm, it would be legal. And Farmed Deer are Very expensive b/c they are hard to raise. ( unlike elk, Buffalo, Cows)
I believe you
There are similar numbers all across the United States and Canada.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I posted an addendum correcting those numbers!
The fact that you corrected my initial reporting makes me feel vindicated for correcting myself. :)
Didn’t know you couldn’t sell meat from a non-farmed animal. This answers the question I’ve always had about why venison isn’t for sale at most grocery stores.
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 11, 2011 3:35 AM EST up reply actions
3yrs 27m is okay with me
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." ~George F. Will
Make it an option
4th year $8M option with a $2M buyout
3 years is too much. Please don't do this Twins.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
I don't think 3 is too much.
Given that Morneau is a question mark, Mauer is still a few years away from abandoning C, and the significant OF depth isn’t quite ready yet.
by spanspanspan on Dec 8, 2011 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
I bet a year from now everybody is going to be lamenting the Twins giving him 3-4 yr
contract. We could do other things with that money. We have people to fill in at the postions that Cuddy plays and really need to put the money into the starting pitching.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
Theres always trading
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." ~George F. Will
And that has really worked out well for us lately./sarcasm.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
I can't really disagree...
But which guys do you mean? Going on the assumption that Morneau is a DH from now on, you must mean some combination of Parmelee, Benson, and Plouffe?
by spanspanspan on Dec 8, 2011 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
Doumit, Mauer, Plouffe, and I am assuming we would sign someone else, preferably
Willingham.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
And you wanted a pitcher...
Oswalt is the next best pitcher still on the market. Him?
by spanspanspan on Dec 8, 2011 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Not necessarily, but there are better pitchers than some of the crap we have
starting.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
Trade
They could always trade him at trading deadline if they have a player ready to take his place, unless he asked for trade protection , which he might if he signs in Minnesota for less than he can get elsewhere.
by Blairpaul715 on Dec 10, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
She's tweeted (twittered? twatted?) a bit more...
For those asking, sounds like $2 million more added to the current package or 4 year deal. And Rockies/Cards aren’t as high up on the list.
and
More Cuddyer news: Word is the 4th year was an ask, not a demand. Looks like there should be a resolution by this weekend.
(Also, who is she?)
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 8, 2011 10:48 PM EST reply actions
Ahhhhh I hope he signs saturday before my game,
i want to know before then though
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Dec 8, 2011 10:55 PM EST up reply actions
If they do this, it's going to be another long crappy season at Target Field.
This is a team that lost 99 games this year. Time to make some changes, not re-sign the same players and hope for something better.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
And won the AL Central in 2010
But had a lot of injuries in 2011. I’m not in favor of “blowing the team up.”
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 8, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1
Most doomsday analysts underestimate the effects of the injuries. That team had its full starting lineup for exactly 3 games. Gardy was forced to use 156 different lineups. At some time during the season, we used all but six players from Rochester. And we used two players from New Britain. The only player who did not spend time on the bench due to injury was Danny Valencia, and Gardy was talking about sending him down for a couple of weeks.
And that doesn’t count the injuries to the pitching staff. The only guy on the Opening Say staff who did not miss games due to injury was Carl Pavano.
I will challenge anyone to find a team that was more plagued by injuries. In some cases, they didn’t put guys on the DL because they didn’t have anybody to replace them. We had a bench of two guys for several games, one of whom was Thome.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Agreed completely...
this team is still in contention next year if Mauer and Morneau are back to health. Our 7 best players last year all had some form of injury they battled most of the year:
Mauer, Morneau, Liriano, Baker, Kubel, Cuddyer, Span
That group accounts for a LOT of wins. We can win this division this year, even though we’re flawed.
That being said, I still say let Cuddy walk. I think it’s a no-brainer to. Collect the 2 top 40 picks and sign Willingham for less money.
Wasn't there even one game...
where we had NOBODY on the bench? I think the one where Luke Hughes missed his flight.
Mauer's outfield debut!
Didn’t Hughes show up in the early innings, giving them one bench player if absolutely necessary?
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 9, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
This. This exactly. If the 2011 Twins were able to stay healthy, and perform around the levels we are accustomed to seeing them perform at, they more than contend for the AL Central, and they definetly don’t have the 2nd overall pick. Thome resigns with us, Cuddyer resigns with us, and we have a much more less Piratesque offseason.
by Brady Eyestone on Dec 9, 2011 2:36 AM EST up reply actions
In addition
Many players were shut down rather than coming back to play meaningless games. I’m sure Baker, Casilla, Morneau and probably Mauer would have been in the lineup in September if there was actually something to play for. At the end of July, it seemed feasible that the team could be in contention since they had played well for over two months. In the middle of August they profiled as a 70+ win team, but when everyone was shut down and the rookies pitched and played, they descended to a near 100 loss team.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Dec 9, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
2011 Splits according to BR
April: 9-17
May: 8-19
June: 17-9
July: 16-13
August: 7-21
September: 6-20
For the record, we traded away both Jim Thome and Delmon Young in August and sat every veteran except for Cuddyer for the last week of the season. BTW, the last week of the regular season, we were 4-4 (9/22-28/11). Maybe it would be a good idea to trade Morneau for prospects, let Cuddyer walk, resign Kubel, and flash the big bucks to Roy Oswalt.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
this is actually useful...
when we had SOME semblance of a team (June/July) we were a pretty good team. Tough to win when your top 7 players are injured. And that’s what we had almost all year.
We have holes for sure, but if we can replace Cuddy/Kubel effectively and Mauer/Morneau/Liriano/Baker/Span return to health, this team can still win this division as presently constructed.
Their best 2 months were .600
The key is the pitching staff was rolling for those two months. The starters were putting up quality starts one after another and pitching deep enough into the games that the bullpen couldn’t screw it up. Get good starting pitching and this team can compete.
seconded there too...
and a key to that would be Baker and Liriano, our 2 best pitchers, returning to health.
Yeah, 'cause
The problem last year was their best healthy hitter.
by amiller92 on Dec 9, 2011 9:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think
…I’ve seen such an evenly distributed poll here on TT. We haven’t made up our collective minds, so I guess it’s not so surprising Twins and Cuddyer haven’t worked this out yet either.
If Cuddyer signs, they need to make a move on the 40-man roster...
…assuming they are going to add several players (Cuddy/outfielder, relief pitcher, maybe another starter), Mr. Ryan is looking at making corresponding moves on the 40-man roster as it is full. Will be interesting to see who gets optioned/waived?
With 23 pitchers on the roster, I assume the first moves will be pitchers going off. But who? Hoey, Manship, Waldrop? Do they waive any of the guys they signed late this year, Malony, Gray, Vasquez?
It would go with
Hoey – the others have too much potential, while Hoey is pretty much what you see is what you get.
by Black Metallic on Dec 9, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
In alphabetical order, he could remove the following without hurting the team:
Diamond
Doyle
Gray
Hoey
Maloney
Florimon
Those are six guys who are exceptionally replaceable if anyone better comes along.
agreed...
lots of relative crap on the 40-man still.
True
But I would keep Scott Diamond just because he was in the Braves system. I would send Hoey, Doyle, and Grey to Texas for David Murphy or another player. That would make room for Murphy or another player the Rangers give us and maybe room for Roy Oswalt and/or another relief pitcher.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Hmmm
a b c d e g h i j k l m n o (f) p q r s t u v w x y z?
by archie2227 on Dec 9, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey!
It removed my extra spacing between e and g!
Cuddy's value
I read somewhere that Fangraphs pegged Cuddyer’s value last year at $13M. I think he will probably maintain that value for at least two years as long as he is healthy. I would rather the team pay extra money for a shorter deal than extend the deal to four years. I view Cuddyer’s value as much higher ($1-2M per year) than Willingham’s. The fact that he is a known quantity to the Twins is worth something, too.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Dec 9, 2011 10:49 AM EST reply actions
So players that swing at that low outside pitch every time, even when everyone knows it's coming, are worth
13mil a year? I swear if I have to watch him do that one more time in the Twins lineup I’ll throw something through my TV. Better start saving up for a new TV I guess, cause odds are it’s going to happen.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
Other guys swing at that pitch indescriminantly and are nonetheless All Stars
You weren’t paying attention if you didn’t see Torii Hunter do it 1000 times as a Twin.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
You're watching from the pitcher's angle
Have you ever watched from the batter’s eye? It’s a lot harder to pick up.
If you want to go by Fangraphs value, though
you have to keep in mind that they pegged Cuddyer’s 2010 as worth only $3.3M. 2009 was $12.8; 2008, he was worth nothing. Willingham, on the other hand, has been worth between $9M and $13M each of the last four seasons. I agree with the general principle that it’s better to go a little extra on money per year than extra years, but I think Cuddyer is clearly a more volatile value risk even at the beginning of a deal than Willingham. I also don’t see much basis for saying Cuddyer is clearly much more valuable (as a player on the field) than Willingham right now.
With all the factors taken into account, including the draft picks, if Willingham was asking the same deal Cuddyer was offered (3 yrs/$25M) I think I’d absolutely give that to him right now if Cuddyer is holding out for more.
by DK on Dec 9, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
I still prefer Cuddy
First, while Willingham has some numbers that favor him, not all do. Willingham lost nearly 40 points of OBP coming to the AL. He does have slightly more power than Cuddy but he also struck out 150 times last year. Stats like wOBA, oWAR, wRC etc still give Cuddy the offensive edge over Willingham. And if you bring defense into account, Cuddy is a lot better fit for us. Willingham is a bad left fielder and can’t fill in in other places. He pushes Revere’s arm to right field (remember Young, Span, Revere outfields?).
Willingham can play 1b can't he?
Cuddy’s below average at any spot you put him at this point, other than DH.
You think Willingham's better?
Talk to a Rock fan
by That'sWhatSheSaid on Dec 9, 2011 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
i think if everything was completely equal...
i’d take cuddy. but it’s not. cuddy’s going to get either 1 year more or more money (IMO) AND by signing cuddy instead of willingham you forfeit 2 top 40 draft picks.
Just sayin
Willingham is no better a fielder than Cuddyer, which I thought was your point. not money or draft picks
by That'sWhatSheSaid on Dec 9, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
not at all my point...
it’s always been about the money and picks to me. i like cuddy; always have. but josh willingham is a very comparable player who will cost us less money, can play comparable positions, and will net us 2 high draft picks.
it’s really a no-brainer to me.
and the other point...
is that Cuddy’s defense and “versatility” are both overrated. He should never play 2b or 3b at this point in his career, and he’s well below average defensively at any corner spot as well.
+1
Just because he has every kind of glove (except the catcher’s) doesn’t mean he’s particularly good at catching balls with them. I think he’s better than his numbers in right because of the walls he’s had to deal with. But his RF UZR is near the bottom of the league. He’s improved from horrible to so-so at first. The numbers speak for themselves at second—Fred Manriquesque. At third, he’s average at best. The funny thing is, I still think his best position is third, and that’s the one where they preferred Tony Bautista and Mike Lamb over him.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
For the record
Justin Morneau is the reason why Cuddy could get priced out of our range. He had a month at first during the last month, plus the playoffs, of the 2009 season. Then he went back to first following Justin Morneau’s concussion in 2010. And he played 46 games at first in 2011 splitting time with Morneau, Joe Mauer, and Chris Parmelee.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
On the picks
It looks like, if we don’t sign him, it would be Col so we’d get no top 40 picks. We’d get a supp pick – somewhere around #42 and then Col second round pick since they are picking 10th overall. (Now, I could be mistaken on that. I haven’t read anything official about these modified type A’s. Usually the top 15 picks were protected. Going forward it’ll be the top 10. But since the team that signs Cuddy won’t lose a pick, the Twins would rather pick right before them, I’m not sure how that would go if a top 10 team in the draft takes him).
i cover this in my draft post (which i'll maintain as up to date throughout the offseason)
and so far I haven’t found a single mistake in it; someone please alert me if you see one, so I’ll respond:
1) Cuddy would be the top Type A FA supplemental pick awarded (Houston didn’t lose any) so our pick would immediately follow the new revenue-sharing lottery picks. currently that pick would sit at #38 and can go no lower than #40 (only 2 other modified Type A Free Agents remain unsigned; Willingham and Madson.
2) As for Colorado signing him, yes, that would change things since they are within the new top 10 designation. Currently that would mean forfeiting the #79 pick (pick immediately before Colorado’s 2nd rd pick). Under the modified Type A’s the signing team doesn’t actually lose their pick; the team that loses the FA simply gets the pick right before that pick; same rules as protection apply.
So at the very LEAST we’re talking about forfeiting the #40 pick and the #79 pick overall in the draft. While if Cuddy signs with any other team outside of the worst 10 teams from 2011 we’re surrendering two top 40 picks. That still has a lot of value either way.
oh...
and if i wasn’t clear, i mention the modified Type A’s in relation to the supplemental Type A pick because those are the only 2 signings that could push that pick lower for the Twins at this point; there are currently 37 regular 1st rd picks, compensation picks for unsigned 2011 draft picks (Blue Jays), and new lottery picks before the Type A supplementals begin.
Prince Fielder or Jimmy Rollins signing elsewhere wouldn’t add any picks to that pool; they’d just swap them between teams in the 1st or 2nd rd. So all that’s left to determine Cuddy’s spot are the Modified Type A’s. If Madson and Willingham re-sign with their teams; we’d have pick #38 if Cuddy left; if they sign elsewhere, we just have to see if they sign with a top 10 protected team or not.
I think you're wrong but I could be
1) Supp picks aren’t ordered on standings but rather the elias ranking points of the FA lost. So the Twins would fall behind Cards (Pujols), Brewers (Fielder), Rangers (Wilson), Phillies (Madson), Padres (Bell), Red Sox (Papelbon) and Reds (Hernandez). So that would leave the Twins sitting around 46 and then the Rockies second rounder.
That said, I still haven’t found anything that says one way or the other whether modified type A’s like Cuddy would be able to jump in front of a top 10 pick team. This thread at MLBtraderumors suggest we would get to pick 9th if the Rockies took Cuddy.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/11/modified-procedure-for-type-a-free-agents.html
And
if that link is correct, if we sign Willingham, we’d drop from #2 overall to #3.
you're wrong...
I’ve researched this a lot. Supplemental picks are ordered in reverse-standing order by team lost. If a team loses more than 1, then (in standard order) after they have their first pick they then go to the back of the mix until all picks are exhausted. My draft order spells it out pretty well; easier to visualize. If you look at last year’s draft results, that would also make it pretty clear how the supplemental Type A’s are ordered.
As for Modified Type A’s, all that changes is that a pick is added before the regular pick of the team signing them, top 10 protected. Again, my draft order spells it out pretty well. Haven’t found a mistake yet; so again, if someone sees one, please let me know.
oh, and...
really the only thing that the actual Elias rankings matter for is when a team signs more than 1 Type A FA. As the Angels show.
Looks like you're right
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/2011/11/free-agent-compensation-update/
Callis answers those questions specifically: modified type A’s get the pick directly before the pick they signing team would have given up.
yep...
supplementals are the order i said above too (and in our updated draft thread). like i said, i’ve researched this a lot. i’m kind of a draft geek; mlb, nba, nfl. draft day in all 3 sports is one of my favorite days of the year. i’d rather watch the nfl draft than the super bowl. haven’t even watched a minute of the last 2 superbowls, but have watched the last two nfl drafts in their entirety.
just looked...
guess he’s only played a couple of games at 1b at the ML level, though he played all over in the infield in the minors.
i still don’t think he’d be much worse at 1b than cuddy is because, well, that’s not really possible to be all that much worse. if the contracts end up being similar (and i still think willingham will get less, either in years or dollars) then i’d still sign him in a heartbeat because of the draft pick value.
well he shouldn't have...
he was pretty bad.
Cuddyer's "versatility and defense"
I’m not a great believer in most defensive metrics. I’ve seen great defenders (Hunter and Puckett) and I’ve seen lousy defenders. Cuddyer is neither great nor lousy at first or right field. As an outfielder, I think Cuddyer is average—he probably gets to a few less balls than the average OF but saves a lot of bases with his arm. As a first baseman, Cuddyer looked pretty bad in 2010, but I thought he played well there last year. I think this has a lot to do with the knee injury he was nursing throughout the season in 2010.
Cuddyer is a stopgap at second base (or center field). He hasn’t played much third base, except for interleague play in 2010, but I doubt he is a real option there either. So Cuddyer’s versatility amounts to playing first and right field—not really that versatile.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Dec 9, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
and pretty much ANYONE,
including a guy like Ryan freaking Doumit, can play those spots.
Enev if you prefer Cuddy
Is he worth more money and sacrificing two draft picks?
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Yep.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 9, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Probably
If the Twins are going to compete this year, they’d need him. If they’re into full rebuild, then let him go (but they don’t seem to be acting like that). This is a weak draft and, as explained above, I think the picks we’d get for Cuddy would both be outside the top 40.
corrected above...
we’d lose at least 1 top 40 pick even if Colorado signs him, as well as a top 80 pick (at least). if any of the other 20 teams outside of the top 10 of the draft sign him, it’s two top 40 picks.
Volatility because of...
Cuddyer’s 2008 was ruined by a rash of injuries, capped off by a broken foot while he was rehabbing in Rochester. His 2010 was curtailed in large part because he played 3/4 of the season with torn knee ligaments. I don’t think of Cuddy as the most durable—he had two missed time neck problems and missed time with a bruised hand—but he has shown he will play with injuries if it helps the team (and maybe if it doesn’t). IMHO, the hand injury turned an exceptional season into merely a good one in 2011. I do think that when healthy, he is a slightly better hitter than Willingham and a far better overall player.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Dec 9, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
We give the twins a new ball park and they give us a shitty product
They got what they want in a new revenue generator in the ball park. I am expecting shitty product from the organization until they start loosing money again. If they were serious about changing back to their winning ways they probably would have made a move for someone.
Um huh
They gave big money to Mauer and Morneau. They paid for the rights to negotiate with Nishi and then signed him (an investment even if he’s not as good as expected). They’ve significantly increased the payroll. Their main problem last year was injuries. How is there a failure to invest more with the increased revenue?
And I’m not sure what winning ways that you remember that involved making moves for high-priced free agents. I do not remember any days like that.
They are cutting their payroll down by over 20 million this year... why?
becuase they have no need to spend that much now that they have a new ballpark. Morneau was years ago. Mauer was 2 years ago. 3 mil to negotiate for Nishi is nothing. Plus, look how they all turned out. All had the worst years of their careers after getting paid. Not sure what more you can expect out of Mauer or Morneau at his point sadly. I have met Justin a few times, he is a great guy, but I think he may be done for in baseball terms. I remember seeing one GM say who in their right mind pays 130 mil for someone who has never had 30 homers or 100 RBIs in a season in reference to Mauer.
So you remember seeing "one GM" saying that?
This “GM” wasn’t in the Strib comment section or calling in to KFAN, was he? Also they didn’t spend $115M when they were in the Dome.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 9, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
So it's all a vast conspiracy?
No. Sorry. Nothing you said is anything beyond circumstantial evidence. That’ll work on sports talk radio, though.
Most teams Fall drastically within a few years of getting a new stadium deal done.
Look into it. It is not a conspiracy. It just happens as teams loose incentive spend so much money. I am pretty sure everything I said is fact. They only paid 3 mil for negotiating rights to Nishi, Morneau’s career is in trouble, Mauer sucked horribly last year. Where is this circumstantial.
It's $3 mil
Three million they never would have spent in the dome.
And yeah, their other two big ticket guys were hurt. What does that have to do with trying to put out a shitty product?
Curcumstantial evidence
- Believing the new ballpark gives ownership reason to not spend as much money
- Using signings of superstars as evidence of the team not wanting to spend money now
- Players having bad years after getting paid
- Relying on the opinion of one GM and his thoughts about salaries for superstars – that’s not circumstantial, it’s just silly. Rod Carew, one of the best hitters in the history of the game, collected 100 RBI once and never hit more than 16 home runs. He’d still get a massive contract if he played today.
I wish
We should be doing the final countdown to opening day.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
or better yet..
http://isitspringtrainingyet.com/
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Dec 10, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Worst. Link. Ever.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 10, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
I Love it
It is short, concise, and to the point.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
haha someone tweeted it I don't even remember who.
I go to it almost every day to see if it will change lol
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Dec 11, 2011 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
"I am pretty sure everything I said is fact. They only paid 3 mil for negotiating rights to Nishi, Morneau’s career is in trouble, Mauer sucked horribly last year"
Actually, nothing you said is “fact.”
The Twins paid somewhere between $4.7M and $5.3M for negotiating rights to Nishioka, depending on which source you believe. Look it up.
Your opinions on Mauer and Morneau are just that, opinions. Not facts.
BTW, the GM you remembering seeing say who in their right mind pays 130 mil… …he should get his ‘facts’ straight too. Mauer signed for $184M, not 130.
Surprises me a general manager would be off by $54M.
Or, I suppose it could be you’re just pulling stuff out of your arse.
+1
This guy is the most ill informed flamer ever to post here.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I dunno
DIE HARD TWINS FAN is/was pretty bad. Not be be confused with diehardtwinsfan.
At least DIE HARD TWINS FAN
Had a good point. It is just that most of Twinkie Town loves Joe Mauer to a fault. Though his April injury was somewhat his fault, most major leaguers would kill for his 2011 experience.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
What?
What major leaguer would kill to be on the disabled list for most of the year and play for a 99 loss team?
by ColossusOfRhode on Dec 11, 2011 3:37 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I used to think maybe Jessy S said stuff like this trying to be funny.
It’s Jessy S being Jessy S.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
#OccupyTwinkieTown
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 11, 2011 8:52 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah Right!
The only teams that I can think of that hadn’t had success in their new ballparks right off the bat are the Detroit Tigers, New York Mets, and Pittsburgh Pirates. Most teams, I can think of right now, had major success in the years after their ballparks opened.
As for members of the Twins, the Twins spent $4.75 million to get the negotiation rights, Justin Morneau signed his current contract before Target Field opened plus he was on an MVP tear before his concussion, and Joe Mauer had a good 2010. Yes I know that the Twins had a bad year last season, but that is what happens when injuries hit the Twins with the force of last season.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
I suppose you could add the Nationals as well
And let’s not forget the Minnesota Twins in 1982 and 1983.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Because
They spend $17 mil. on a closer last year, for starters.
There was money to be trimmed pretty easily.
Money Spent on a closer last year: $17 million
Money spent on a closer this coming season: just under $5 million. Also noted, that is $12 million in savings.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
Christ the Angels just spent over 300 mil on two players, Not that we should spend that much at all
but they should at least be trying to improve their roster from last year
And they haven't been?
They’ve improved at middle infield and backup catcher. They still need a bat or two, some Bunsen help and ideally a front of the rotation starter.
Off season is not over.
exactly...
it’s not about the money the Twins have to spend (look at the Rays, for instance). It’s about the mismanagement of said money.
I love Cuddyer, but leverage matters
I’m a bit hesitant even with our current 3 year offer. Cuddyer’s been worth 6.7 WAR over the past three years according to fangraphs Depending on whether you assume $4-$5M per win, we’re talking about $2-8M of surplus value over the life of the contract. Giving him an extra $2M a year eats into the value, and seriously, should any of us expect Cuddyer to outperform his last three years?
And in order for the Twins to add another year or more money, what leverage does he have? As far as I know, most of the teams rumored to have interest have moved on. The Twins need to be careful not to bid against themselves here.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 9, 2011 6:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Cuddy or Kubel
I’d let Cuddy go…sign Willingham and Kubel.
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