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Twins On Michael Young's Trade Wish List

This is a scenario that's gotten ugly, and ugly pretty quickly.  Check out MLB Trade Rumors for the full summary, but here's the important bit: 

Young_medium

Most of the teams on that list are contenders, including your Minnesota Twins.  And while not more than two weeks ago I would have probably ripped on anyone who thought Minnesota was a legitimate trade target, right now having something get done seems far more palatable.  For one reason.

The Rangers have zero trade leverage.

Texas has somehow managed to completely botch this thing up, but it's not much of a surprise that Young is disillusioned with the franchise he's spent his entire Major League career with.  Between acquiring the pieces that essentially would relegate him to a bench/infield utility role and then telling him they weren't going to trade him when it's now clear that they were shopping him, Young clearly decided he'd had enough and decided to fight back.  By saying:

I want to be traded because I've been misled and manipulated and I'm sick of it.

...he's put Texas in a precarious situation akin to what happened with the Twins and Johan Santana.  The Rangers now have a limited range of teams to which Young will approve a trade (because of the nature of his no-trade clause in his contract), which means it will become pretty easy for anyone who's even mildly interested to see how little they can get away with offering.

One of the biggest obstacles to overcome is the $16,000,000 per year he's owed for the next three seasons.  $48 million is a lot for any team to take on, particularly for a player who just turned 34 and didn't look good in the stretch run to the playoffs (.252/.279/.365 from August 1 to the end of the season).  His .619 post-season OPS also doesn't bode well for any Texas leverage, either.

Age, performance and money--the triple threat of red flags.  We'll examine the situation for each of the eight teams on his approved list after the jump.

Star-divide

Cardinals - From left to right, the Cardinals have David Freese, Ryan Theriot, Skip Schumaker and Albert Pujols starting through their infield.  Freese turns 28 this spring but has hit .299 with a .360 on-base percentage in his brief Major League career.  He also costs significantly less than Young.  Theriot came on board from a November trade and is making $3.3 million this season.  Schumaker regressed a bit last year, but he's making $2.7 million and no doubt the Cardinals are looking at him to bounce back a little.  And of course they just brought in Nick Punto.  Then there's Pujols.  Young would certainly make this a deeper group, and they might be willing to give him a shot starting at third base, but how much salary would they be willing to take on considering they're in the middle of the Pujols negotiations?  Their 2011 payroll is already at a franchise-high $104 million.

Yankees - Young wouldn't be starting in New York, and with Jorge Posada holding down DH duties it's hard to see him getting much time there.  In the Bronx, he'd likely be a frequent fill-in for all members of the infield if a trade were to go through.  How likely that is, I'm not too sure--New York's payroll is below $200 million for the first time since 2007, but with Ramiro Pena and Eduardo Nunez already in the fold it would have to depend on how often Cashman and Girardi think Young would get to play.  Barring another ego trip from the Steinbrenners, at least.  New York is always in play, though, so we probably have to forget about any value-versus-cost conversation.  If he'd make the team better, and he would, anything is possible.

Astros - At first base, Brett Wallace is a 24-year old minor league slugger (.304/.375/.487) who will get every opportunity.  Chris Johnson at third is a bit more of a gamble, and Young could provide some solid insurance there at the very least.  Clint Barmes and Bill Hall occupy the two middle infield positions and will likely start going forward, but Young would provide insurance there as well.  The main issue would be payroll considerations, as Houston has just $64.7 million on the books for 2011, their lowest in years as they attempt to re-set and rebuild a competetive roster.  Young would make them better without a doubt, even if he's not the same player anymore, but I wonder whether Houston would be willing to commit those kinds of dollars to a guy when Houston really isn't in the playoff picture.  I imagine that only a deal that blows their hair back gets it done.

Rockies - The leader in speculation is Colorado, with one of the primary names involved being infielder Eric Young Jr.  The recently acquired Jose Lopez has also been mentioned.  The movement of both, or even just one, of these names would make room for Young at second base for the Rockies, and would also give them an impressive infield including stalwart Todd Helton at first, Ian Stewart at third and of course Troy Tulowitzki at short.  Shifting Lopez and his $3.6 million salary in 2011 would be of some financial help, but the Rockies reportedly are looking for Texas to pick up at least $20 million of the remaining $48 million on Young's contract.  If Texas plays ball, the Rockies still have to be the favorite here.

Dodgers - The Dogers are already paying $10 million this season towards players no longer on their roster, bringing their 2011 committment to more than $100 million.  Their current starting infield consists of James Loney, Juan Uribe, Rafael Furcal and Casey Blake, with Jamey Carroll and Jay Gibbons as the primary backups.  I'm not sure the Rangers would want any of those players in return, which means a third team might have to get involved in this scenario.  This is a tough one to read, unless Los Angeles is willing to shift one of those starters to the bench and jettison either Carroll or, more likely, Gibbons.

Angels - Think they'd swap an arbitration-eligible player to Texas and then pay the rest of Young's salary?  No, they probably wouldn't screw the pooch twice in a row.  But he would have a role in Los Angeles, combining with Maicer Izturis, Erick Aybar, Howie Kendrick, Kendry Morales, Alberto Callaspo and Brandon Wood to create a deep and talented infield pool.  Third base would seem his likely target.  Unfortunately the Angels don't seem capable of taking on much, if any additional, salary...as their 2011 payroll is already at $124 million.  The Angels seem like an unlikely option.

Padres - In spite of their $38 payroll this season, San Diego is fielding a pretty decent infield.  Chase Headley, Jason Bartlett, Orlando Hudson and Brad Hawpe form, at the very least, recognizeable names for the fanbase.  They also signed Jorge Cantu to a very team-friendly contract, and Everth Cabrera is in-house.  Young might provide them with better coverage in the field and a more reliable bat off the bench, and considering how their team is set up for the next few seasons they might not balk too hard at the dollars if Texas doesn't ask for a lot in terms of prospects.  Of course, that all depends on how much faith the organization has in the six guys they already have, and whether or not they'd be willing in invest in an aging star who will make more than double the salary of their current highest-paid player.

Twins - Now we come to our own boys, and honestly, while I know Young would make the Twins better (as he would most of the teams on this list), I know it would take a virtual steal for such a move to transpire.  Texas has very little leverage, yes, but enough to make a move worth Minnesota's time?  History says probably not, not when dealing with such a contract.  But he would certainly have a role.  Whether backing up Danny Valencia at third, or playing second if Alexi Casilla falters and Tsuyoshi Nishioka shifts over...or if Nishioka has issues himself.  Even as a backup plan for Justin Morneau, so Cuddyer doesn't have to shift around again.

Conclusions

In terms of odds, I think the Twins are probably closer to odds-off than odds-on.  Colorado, San Diego and New York would all seem the most likely destinations, while Houston and both Los Angeles teams seem highly unlikely.  I'd put Minnesota and St. Louis squarely in the middle.

Whatever happens, Nolan Ryan and the Rangers are in an unenviable situation.  Either they trade him for what he's not likely to be fair value, or they hold onto a player who clearly wants out and might be something of a distraction.

Poll
Which team is most likely to land Michael Young?
Angels
124 votes
Astros
49 votes
Cardinals
54 votes
Dodgers
74 votes
Padres
48 votes
Rockies
258 votes
Twins
359 votes
Yankees
116 votes
Someone else
51 votes
He'll stay with the Rangers
222 votes

1355 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 162 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I don't think the Twins are interested

The only deal that makes sense is Michael Young for Cuddyer and Blackburn and only if the Rangers throw in a C pitching prospect.

by DJL44 on Feb 8, 2011 10:52 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah, it's a long shot.

It would, literally, have to be a massive steal. And in any situation they’d have to pay a massive chunk of Young’s salary.

by Jesse on Feb 8, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't even do that

As explained on the other thread. It’s an awful lot of salary to take on for an aging, middling infielder who’s best position is blocked by Valencia.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

He can play second base

He could also play the outfield or shift to the corner infield in case of an injury. The deal would require $1M additional salary in 2011 and a 2 year $20M commitment for 2012-13. That’s not a scary amount of money and the Twins have payroll flexibility going forward. I don’t think it is a great deal but I wouldn’t be upset if they liked their team better with Michael Young.

I am pretty sure the Rockies would top that offer.

by DJL44 on Feb 8, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

He is a bad second baseman

As a corner outfielder, his offense would be below average. Ditto for third. At short, he’s a disaster.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Why use up that payroll flexibility

on an aging player? If Young was a FA and the Twins signed him for 3/30 I would be very unhappy.

by Stefa on Feb 8, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It is a possible trade.

I wouldn’t mind dumping Michael Cuddyer for three years of Michael Young. It would also be a chance for us to dump Delmon Young and Glen Perkins.

by Jessy S on Feb 8, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Intriguing...

He’s definitely in a decline phase, but would be a nice right-handed bat to have playing one of several roles.

I would think that the Twins would also need Texas to pick up about $20 million of his contract to make any deal happen.

by 2wins87 on Feb 8, 2011 10:58 AM EST reply actions  

Man

$48 million for a 34 year old that hasn’t played shortstop since 2008 and second base since 2003… I guess it depends on how much salary the Rangers would eat, and how much the Twins would have to give back in return. If this scenario was going on a few years ago, I would have been more excited.

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by John Veldhuis on Feb 8, 2011 10:59 AM EST reply actions  

I've posted this elsewhere, might as well bring it here:

To me, Young = Cuddyer.

Young is owed 48 million total for the next three years and he’s coming up on his mid-30’s. I don’t feel the Twins have the money for him at all. It was pushing it signing Pavs, I’m sure.

I’m not that overly impressed with his bat either. Yes, he’d likely be an offensive upgrade over Casilla, but I don’t want him as the SS. I don’t think he’s a good SS. The other infield positions are full. He didn’t want to take on a smaller role for the Rangers, he’s not going to want to do it for us. Plus if he did, 48 million and a small role? No thanks.

Looking at the last four years, Michael Young = Michael Cuddyer. During that time, Cuddyer had a very down and injury riddled 2008 but he was still almost as good the last four years as Young has been. They both had one year where it was a career year (or close to it).

Average over the last four years:
Young: 89 runs, 186 hits, 36 doubles, 16 HR’s, 84 RBI’s, 50 walks, 105 K’s, .300/.351/.442

Cuddyer: 76 runs, 135 hits, 28 doubles, 16 HR’s, 73 RBI’s, 50 walks, 90 K’s, .271/.343/.446

The numbers aren’t that far off and remember, Cuddyer’s numbers are dragged down by his injury plagued 2008. That season was the worst season of his career. The only time he’s played worse was as a 22 year old in 18 AB’s in 2001, which I wouldn’t count since it’s such an insanely small sample size.

People complain about paying Cuddyer 10 million, but they’d be okay with paying an equal (in my eyes) and older player 16 million? The Rangers could take on salary, but that only means that the Twins would have to give up better prospects. Again, Young isn’t worth that. Would you trade a ton or take on Cuddyer at 16 million if the situation was reversed? I sure wouldn’t.

I like the guy, but he’s no different than Cuddy to me. He’d improve the offense, but I don’t think he’d make some huge impact to the team where he’d be an upgrade over what we’re rolling with now.

Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD

by Twins33 on Feb 8, 2011 11:21 AM EST reply actions  

His glove is much better than Cuddyer

Young is a little better baserunner also. He’s a 1 win upgrade on Cuddyer due to positional flexibility and another win due to his glove. His offense is a push.

by DJL44 on Feb 8, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

But I don't think the Twins organization views Cuddy the same way some of us do

In other words, I don’t think they view his contract as an albatross. They like him, they like his flexibility and they know he fits the team. I actually doubt the Twins like Young as much as they like Cuddyer, so a swap wouldn’t make sense to them.

by dctwin on Feb 8, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I don’t think they view him that way either. I think Cuddyer’s contract is A LOT better than Young’s though even just looking at it like it was a one year deal. I’d rather pay Cuddyer 10 than Young 16. I’d pay the lower contract no matter what, even if the contract’s were reversed.

I they they’re pretty equal players, which is why Young at 16 looks awful to me.

Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD

by Twins33 on Feb 8, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not impressed with his glove

Do you have numbers on his glove vs. Cuddyer’s? I know they play different positions, but I’d like to see. I feel like Young can really only play one infield position and maybe play the OF (has he played the OF before?). That’s the same way I feel about Cuddyer. He can play RF, not well, but he can play it. Young’s better at his one position, but I don’t like him anywhere else. I think he’s very bad at SS.

Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD

by Twins33 on Feb 8, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Bad at SS

Slightly below average at 3B and 2B. He’s a 3 WAR player at either of those positions. He’s more likely to age well at 3B. 2B gets nicked up turning the pivot.

by DJL44 on Feb 8, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay

I was thinking he was bad at 2B as well, but I wasn’t sure. I just knew SS, he is awful.

Either way, the only spot the Twins actually would have would be SS (in my eyes) that’s the easiest position for him to take over. I don’t see him taking Valencia’s or Nishioka’s places. And that just wouldn’t work, because he’s a bad SS. I don’t see a place for him and I certainly don’t like the price he’s at.

If they could give up very little and have the Rangers pay most of the bill then I’m all for it, but I wouldn’t want him otherwise. The Rangers are probably going to look out for the Rangers so I doubt that would happen.

Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD

by Twins33 on Feb 8, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

hasn't played 2B since 2003 or SS since 2008

I don’t think saying he’s slightly below average is realistic at 2B is realistic at this point. You can’t take statistics from a guy when he was 27 and use them as a defense when he’s 34.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Feb 8, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point, I didn't realize it had been that long

So maybe I was right in the beginning…

Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD

by Twins33 on Feb 8, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Bad all around

Negative UZR everywhere. Appalling UZR at short.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but not a significant upgrade

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

The Twins are a contender

It is really hard to significantly upgrade anywhere. That’s a good thing.

Young fits best starting at 3B for a different club. The Rangers put themselves in this situation by offering Adrian Beltre another bloated contract. You’d think the Rangers and Angels could agree to swap a bloated infield contract for a bloated outfield contract. Young for Hunter straight up. Torii lives in Dallas.

by DJL44 on Feb 8, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

That makes sense

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

During the WS

I’m pretty sure I referred to him as “The Ranger’s Cuddy” because of his history with the organization and the fact that he seemed to be there more partially because of clubhouse opinions.

I didn’t realize he was also statistically like him…

by Anjemon on Feb 8, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, they're pretty close

Honestly, I was a bit surprised too. A lot people talk up Young so much and Cuddyer doesn’t get talked up a lot. They’re pretty similar players, but Young gets praised a lot more. Their numbers would be even closer if not for the injury curse of 2008 to Cuddyer.

Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD

by Twins33 on Feb 8, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you kidding me

FOX’s Eric Karros wanted Cuddyer for MVP.

by Jessy S on Feb 8, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

On the Twins roster right now...

…he would replace Matt Tolbert. Considering this, I would be ecstatic to have his presence on our team, especially in the absence of JJ Hardy (payroll be damned).

  If you consider a veteran bench valuable, Thome and M. Young would be almost impossible to top, even with Butera occupying one of the seats.

 Unfortunately, our FO has absolutely no history of participating in deals like this, giving me no hope whatsoever that they’ll even try to put an offer together. Even if they did, I doubt it would be more than one or two mid-level prospects – which in my mind, is probably what the Rangers will have to take in order to get this problem off their hands.

"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series

by WindyCityTwinsFan on Feb 8, 2011 11:25 AM EST reply actions  

Young's interest

The discussion here seems to be focusing on teams acquiring Young to be a backup, but I’d imagine if Young wanted to be a backup, he’d just keep his yap shut, collect his $48 million, and stay in Texas.

Based solely on the odds that they’d make Young a starter, I rank the clubs this way:

Houston
Angels
Dodgers
(gap)
everybody else

I do think if the Twins got Young, Gardy would go into spring training expecting Young to be the starter; it’s part of his approach, after all.

by dwintheiser on Feb 8, 2011 11:45 AM EST reply actions  

I think he would definitely get significant time with the Twins

We are so young in the infield…but he’s not going to supplant Valencia as a starter after Danny’s last season, so he’d have to take either Casilla or Nishi’s spot. Not sure I see that happening given Young’s relative defensive weakness (taking other people’s word for it on Nishi).

by dctwin on Feb 8, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

I certainly didn't mean it that way.

Going to some of these places he would definitely be a backup, but looking at the situations most of these clubs are in he’d, at minimum, have to compete for a starting job. Including the Dodgers.

Houston he’d get a starting job, probably the Angels, both at third. Maybe St. Louis at third as well. Second base for the Rockies, and (probably) the Twins eventually if/when Casilla blows his chance.

by Jesse on Feb 8, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

That's kind of the thing,

he makes sense as a third baseman, but not as much else. It would be an odd fit with the Twins. The Angels would make a ton of sense if they weren’t within the division and full of bloated contracts already.

by Luke in MN on Feb 8, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

i'd put stl on top of the list (odds of starting)

young would see himself as joining a contender with no-one blocking him at 3B.
lets be honest….freese is coming off of double ankle surgery and 30-ish starts per season avg the last 2 seasons. PUNTO is the starter at 3B for stl today. anyone counting freese as a everyday 3B is kidding themselves as bad as Mozliak and larussa are.

stl budget says no-way, but there is no-one blocking young at 3B or 2B in stl.

by ball in play on Feb 8, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd take him...

for a package like Plouffe/Kubel/Blackburn and Texas eating about $20M. I’d rather deal Cuddy, but I think the Twins love him too much and will even look to extend him at a reduced salary. I’d then look to pick up a cheap bench option or OF’er to replace Kubel.

And I’d play Young mainly at 2b, but rotate him around at DH/1b/3b/even SS to keep guys fresh. Maybe he plays 2b something like 60% of the time, Casilla plays the other 40%, but he also gets time at the other spots. Tell me this lineup isn’t good:

Span-CF
Young-2b
Mauer-C
Morneau-1b
Young-LF
Thome-DH
Cuddy-RF
Valencia-3b
Yoshi-SS

by DJSkillz on Feb 8, 2011 11:50 AM EST reply actions  

My prediction is the they send Young and $20M and get back a utility infielder and a non-prospect minor leaguer or two

Young is around a 2WAR player with a bit of extra value from flexibility so he is probably worth around $9M/yr. Texas eating $20M makes him a breakeven player in terms of salary to production. Breakeven players don’t bring back value in trades.

See the Juan Pierre trade to the White Sox. The Dodgers got two scrubs and had to eat a significant chunk of salary.

by joewho112 on Feb 8, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, as an aside,

Wow did this situation get ugly quickly. I actually think they are in a much worse situation than the Twins were with Santana. He’s certainly a less prized commodity and the Twins did not look nearly so bad in that situation as Texas does here.

by dctwin on Feb 8, 2011 11:51 AM EST reply actions  

That's my sense

They can’t give him away. They will have to send players and salary just to dump part of his contract.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I have zero

I have zero interest in paying any substantial portion of that contract. Pass.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Feb 8, 2011 11:53 AM EST reply actions  

I don't get it.

I don’t think he’s likely to make this team better in any meaningful way. If the Rangers take on about 75% of his contract and don’t want anything in return, AND if the Twins are convinced Nishioka can handle SS, then yes, Young at 2B (huge defensive shortcomings and all) is probably a small upgrade over Casilla at short, and it might be worthwhile. Anything more than that, and I have no interest at all.

http://www.theplatoonadvantage.com

by billp on Feb 8, 2011 11:56 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed

I think a lot of fans are overlooking that it hasn’t been determined whether Nishi can handle the SS position.

by Stefa on Feb 8, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

He makes the team better in terms of available talent.

You’re replacing Matt Tolbert’s place on the 25-man roster with Michael Young. That’s an improvement.

But you’re right, which is what we’ve all been saying—you can’t look at it in a vaccuum. Looking at all the pieces, including financials and potential cost of prospects, no—it’s not worth it, and it’s highly unlikely the FO gives this anything more than a cursory glance.

by Jesse on Feb 8, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Replacing Tolbert

The problem with that is he would come in here with basically the same role he’s unhappy with in Texas. Young is going through a particularly ugly version of veteran-doesn’t-realize-he’s-not-good-anymore syndrome. Aka, other players are better starters, and he’s annoyed about it.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Feb 8, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually think, leaving aside money, that's he's a PERFECT fit...

RH bat
AMAZING clubhouse guy
Perfect #2 hitter. Imagine a lineup of Span/Young/Mauer/Morneau/Delmon/Thome/Kubel or Cuddy/Valencia/Yoshi
A guy that while below average defensively can back up every infield position, and DH, and currently we have 4 big question marks in the infield.

Morneau-who knows
Casilla-will it be different this time?
Yoshi-we don’t know how he’ll transition
Valencia-sophomore slump?

Obviously his contract is the big issue, and clearly to make it work Texas would have to pick up a good chunk of that salary (I’d say around $20M or so, which I find them likely to do). But from a pure talent/fit standpoint, I really don’t get the argument that Michael Young wouldn’t make us a much better team.

by DJSkillz on Feb 8, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

That assumes he wants to be a back-up

If it doesn’t work i Texas, it won’t work here.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry cmath...

just basically replied to this question below…

I think he’d be a best fit starting most of the time at 2b, with Lexi still getting a good deal of playing time.

by DJSkillz on Feb 8, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

This is an interesting situation though

Clearly he wants to start, but it sounds like a huge part of his beef with Texas was their handling of the situation and the lack of respect he feels he was shown. If the Twins could promise him significant playing time, I don’t know that being the ‘starter’ would be a deal breaker. Also, I agree with some of the sentiments here that Casilla 3.0 is unlikely to hold down his starting job for long, assuming Gardy would even give it to him over Young.

At the end of the day though, the ONLY way this is even remotely worth talking about is if Texas pays a huge chunk of his salary. That means virtually no one else is interested and the Twins are all they have left to work with.

by dctwin on Feb 8, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I read the situation the same way

That he would like to be a starter, yes, but he’s mostly unhappy with the way Texas has handled the situation. So if a team brought him in telling him he’d be mainly a DH/backup infield guy he might be okay with it because he knows that going forward. He just didn’t like getting shunted around and being told one thing while the FO was clearly doing something completely different.

by Anjemon on Feb 8, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

perfect #2 hitter?

He has a career .322 OBP away from The Ballpark. He’s a slightly above average hitter for his career, probably much less than that now. And he’s not just “below average” defensively. Every inning he spends at short is an inning that, as a Twins fan, you probably don’t want to watch.
All told, if we’re not counting on him to see significant time at DH (which he shouldn’t anyway), I’d probably rather have Punto at this point. To whom the Twins weren’t willing to pay $700k.

http://www.theplatoonadvantage.com

by billp on Feb 8, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

First off...

I think too much is made out of the home/road split. Yes, it’s important, but every hitter hits better at home. I think he’d hit better at Target Field than his “road” numbers are.

Second, I wouldn’t have him play SS much. Maybe 5 games or so max. His offense will outweigh his defense at 2b still IMO.

Third, Punto? No way in heck.

by DJSkillz on Feb 8, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

but

while it’s true that a hitter’s true talent is usually better than his road stats, he’s going from an extreme hitter’s park to what appears to be an extreme pitcher’s park. And as noted below, he’s coming off a year of .260/.299/.380 on the road. In this case, I’d peg my expectations at right about his career road numbers.

Now, his 2009 numbers were good enough to make him an above-average player despite the horrid defense. And we’re not far from that, but he’s also a 34 year old mostly-middle-infielder, so banking on him to go back to that probably isn’t a wise move.

Punto is criminally underappreciated by most Twins fans. His defense, baserunning and on-base abilities put him, in my opinion, just a hare shy of whatever Young has left. At any rate, if you’re not willing to pay Punto $700k but will give Young anything north of $4 million, you’re definitely going about it all wrong.

http://www.theplatoonadvantage.com

by billp on Feb 8, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope...

Punto sucks.

If anything he was always vastly overrated by a large portion of Twins fans and Twins media.

by DJSkillz on Feb 8, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

it's starting to make sense now

I can see how someone who thinks that about Punto would also think that one of the most chronically overrated players in baseball, who is about to turn 34, has no defensive ability left and hits for empty high batting averages, nonetheless has something to offer the Twins.

http://www.theplatoonadvantage.com

by billp on Feb 8, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

+1,000,000

Punto is horrible, ’nough said

by Span's the Man!!! on Feb 8, 2011 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Baserunning abilities?

I suppose if you like players running themselves into outs

by DJL44 on Feb 8, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

or, you know, excellent baserunners

who make mistakes every now and then.

Young is a better player than Punto is, but not $700K-to-$16 (or even like $5) million better, and I think Punto would help this particular team more right now than Young would.

http://www.theplatoonadvantage.com

by billp on Feb 8, 2011 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Punto was never a good baserunner

He was OK on stolen bases (31/91), but not about the 70% threshold that would put him in the black there. But he got picked off a lot. He often tried to take the extra base foolishly. And he never knew when to slide and when not to. Check that. He just always slid just in case.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Feb 8, 2011 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

also

It’s funny to me that the one guy who has been the single biggest, loudest whiner against his own team for two of the past three offseasons now still gets credited as an “AMAZING clubhouse guy”

http://www.theplatoonadvantage.com

by billp on Feb 8, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

It doesn't say much that he's requesting a trade

It seems to speak more in favor of the whiner rumor, which is prevalent.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Drop the whole Young is a whiner thing

Cmath, you and I disagree on a lot but I have always respected you, but…..hmmm no idea how to say this with out coming off rude….but if you actually think Young is whiner you are uneducated. Just drop it for the sake that I dont want to blow up on you or any other Twins fan.

From a Twins fan who grew up in North Texas you are welcome to take shots of Young for anything on the field but the second you say anything about his character you are showing how little you actually know about him.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Fine

I only repeat what I’ve read, and calling it a rumor. I’ll take your word for it that he’s a good clubhouse guy.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

He also complained publicly

and requested a trade (which he later backed down from) when he was moved to third base in order to install Andrus at shortstop. This would seem to be repeat behavior.

by DK on Feb 8, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm just stating what's part of the public record

which is all any of us can reasonably go by. He’s had problems with his perceived playing role twice within the last three years and he’s made a public airing of those problems. I’m not reading anything into his character off of that (but other people can do whatever they wish), but that’s what happened, to the extent that any of us can know about it.

by DK on Feb 8, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Once again, oversimplifying it

-He was moved from 2B to SS and didnt say a word.

-The next year front office then came out and said they are making Andrus the starting SS with out saying a word to him. During this time they also lied to Young about trying to trade him. He was upset with how he was treated as asked to be traded. After finally talking with the FO he said he was fine with playing 3B

-This year pretty much the same thing happened. The FO lied about trying to trade him, still were lying about it last week, and then signed Beltre. They told Young he will be playing DH/1B and Young said he was fine with that roll. Then they traded for Napoli and it comes out they were still trying to trade him after they told him to his face they were not.

I would be pretty mad myself. We are not talking about a guy like Greinke who wanted out because of winning, he has spent the past 10+ years playing for a losing team, but because they really are mistreating him. I’m 100% for Young wanting out.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

and an AMAZING clubhouse guy...

would take these things, plus $16 million a year, and go about his business.

http://www.theplatoonadvantage.com

by billp on Feb 8, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

That proves...

That Michael Young isn’t a whiner. If the front office is trying to replace me, I would request a trade as well, especially if that front office is lying through their teeth.

by Jessy S on Feb 8, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we have two different definitions of clubhouse

When I think clubhouse, I think players and managers, not the front office. I have never read a single bad thing written or said about Young by his team mates or managers. Maybe you have read something that I havent. This offseason all I have seen/read are players like Hamilton/Kinsler/Wilson nd his managers, current and former, Washington/Showalter defend Young. If you were not a good clubhouse guy they would throw him under the bus.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Guys don't talk about their teammates or players that way

Everybody said O-Hud was a great clubhouse guy until he was gone. Then it came out that he bugged a lot of guys with his incessant chatter and rode Span so hard in Spring Training he was worn out before the season started.

I have nothing on him, but I don’t think you can protest this much with nothing in his favor except silence.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

He has kept silent

Other people haven’t. If people didn’t like someone they normally keep it to themselves. People from FO (till now surprisingly), announcers, players, coaches, people in the community, and fans have all had only great things to say. After saying he feels like he got mistreated/mislead and would like a trade he is now a bad guy after all that? All that is thrown away? I think not.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

yep...

by ALLLLLLL reports Young is an EXCELLENT clubhouse guy and leader, and has been his entire career. He’s often talked about as one of the very best in the game in that regard. He’s earned his reputation. And this demand (fully warranted IMO) doesn’t change that. Ron Washington’s comments today do a lot to prove that.

by DJSkillz on Feb 8, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm glad to hear it

And, really, the clubhouse thing is a minor point in a dubious hypothetical. Michael Young is not a good fit for the Twins because of his contract. Period. Once you make that determination, whether he’s a good clubhouse guy or not is moot.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 9, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I hear ya CMath...

and I wouldn’t take his full contract either. But if, as reported, Texas would take on $20M or so of the $48M owed? I’d seriously consider it.

by DJSkillz on Feb 9, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't

Maybe a few years ago. But 33 is very old for a guy of Young’s stature. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a steep drop off, like most middle infielders his age, especially away from Arlington. The risk is too great, IMHO.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 9, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Hudson...bad clubhouse guy?

Where did you read that? I’m not calling you a liar or anything, I legitimately don’t know where some of this info comes from. Such as Delmon losing that weight last season as a result of being sick rather than working out.

by Caulfield on Feb 9, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It came from LENIII

Basically said Gardy didn’t want him in his clubhouse because he wore out his welcome.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 9, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Hudson's not a bad guy

He’s just annoying. He talks all the time. I said before he’s not a clubhouse cancer, more like clubhouse tinnitus.

by DJL44 on Feb 9, 2011 6:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Right

A clubhouse food poisoning.

Point is, everybody said what a great clubhouse guy he was until he was gone. Reason: why alienate your teammate until the season is over?

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 9, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

also

who on earth, assuming they like things like attention and money, would complain about moving from 2B to SS? And he was at short for five years after moving from second. It wasn’t the next year. Five years of proving conclusively that he wasn’t physically capable of playing the position.

http://www.theplatoonadvantage.com

by billp on Feb 8, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't believe you know anything more about Young than anyone else

…and we all have repeated public instances of whining about his team, from a player who is paid ridiculously well for what he brings to the table.

http://www.theplatoonadvantage.com

by billp on Feb 8, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree...

There’s no way Gardy would sit Michael Young a ton or play him like Tolbert. I think he’d end up starting at 2b at least most of the time. And that’s how I’d use him too.

60% of the time or so at 2b. The other 40% goes to Lexi.
Other ab’s giving rest to Valencia/Morneau/Thome, and even occasionally Yoshi at SS.

by DJSkillz on Feb 8, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Young is NOT going any place to be a back up

The reason he wants out of Texas is because he didn’t think he will get his at bats. If you are trading for Young you better have a spot for him.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he'd be more than happy with the above PT...

he’d be mainly a starter (around 60% of the time) and he’d still get over 500 ab’s in that role.

by DJSkillz on Feb 8, 2011 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I have no idea where this is coming from

Young said he was fine to move to DH/1B after the Rangers signed Beltre. He only changed his mind after they traded for Napoli to play DH/1B/back up catcher because he knew he wouldnt get his at bats. Young wants to go some to a place to be an every day starter. NOT to be a back up.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think he meant taking Tolbert's spot on the bench

I think he meant taking his spot on the roster only. Casilla would probably be moved back to the bench.

At least that’s the way I read it.

Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD

by Twins33 on Feb 8, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Small Upgrade?

Marcel Projection for Young:
.282/.335/.429
Marcel Projection for Casilla:
.256/.320/.365

That’s a pretty substantial difference.

If he’s passable at second base (Casilla hasn’t shown to be above average over there)
then that’s a pretty huge upgrade.

"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"

by Steven Ellingson on Feb 8, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

What about when he's 36?

Being better than Casilla doesn’t justify the price tag. We also don’t know if Nishi will work out at SS.

Also, isn’t the projection assuming he plays half his games in Texas?

by Stefa on Feb 8, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

park?

Is that projection park-neutral? I can see him doing that in Arlington, but not at Target Field.

http://www.theplatoonadvantage.com

by billp on Feb 8, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

no way the Twins will or should

make any deal for Michael Young. If Valencia was not around, then it would be a possibility, but that amount of money is pretty crazy. I would really guess that he ends up with Houston or the Angels.

by shanewahl on Feb 8, 2011 12:06 PM EST reply actions  

BANDBOX ALERT! BANDBOX ALERT!

I posted some of this in the other Young thread, but it bears repeating…

Michael Young’s career road split: .279/.322/.411 (.733 OPS), 68 HR
Michael Young’s career home split: .322/.372/.487 (.859 OPS), 90 HR
Michael Young’s 2010 road split: .260/.299/.380 (.679 OPS), 5HR
Michael Young’s 2010 home split: .307/.361/.509 (.871 OPS), 16 HR

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Feb 8, 2011 12:17 PM EST reply actions  

Almost everyone hits better at home

You can’t just use people’s road split as a predictor

by DJL44 on Feb 8, 2011 12:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh come on

Arlington is the biggest bandbox in the game. everybody knows that.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Coors, BOB

Biggest in the AL. Still, you have to regress home/road splits toward the mean. Adjusted OPS+ is usually good enough.

by DJL44 on Feb 8, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Coors has cooled off since they put the balls in the humidor

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

And the Twins new stadium is one of the best for pitchers

Just how Young is going to be bad if he leaves Arlington I guess the same could be said for our pitchers. Two sided road that you are going down.

Young will hit any place he goes. If he comes to Minny maybe with a few less HRs, but he will still hit.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

But

How do we know that Target Field is best for pitchers. We are just basing this on one year of data. Toronto had no trouble hitting home runs when they played here. Plus, Michael Cuddyer, Jason Kubel, Justin Morneau, and Joe Mauer all had a great home run hitting season in 2009. It just so happened to be our last season in the Metrodome. Before he had his concussion, Morneau had a good start homer wise. Finally Jimmers walk-off vs Chicago would have hit the football skybox in the dome.

All we do know about Target Field is that the prevailing wind will be coming from the south during the summer. This means that the Twins would be better off getting left-handed hitters.

by Jessy S on Feb 8, 2011 6:50 PM EST up reply actions  

This is true, to some extent

It’s not fair to Rangers guys to just take their road split, both because of the home/road thing (although interestingly, Mauer, Morneau, and Delmon all hit better on the road for their careers, with Cuddyer having a pretty big home advantage) and because other guys’ road splits include at least a few games in Arlington.

I don’t think he’d be completely as bad as his road split for those reasons, but I also don’t think you can pencil him in as a .775 OPS guy if you take him out of Arlington.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Feb 8, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

How the hell are the Twins second in the voting?

I guess put the Twins name up there and people will blindly vote for them.

If we didn’t have Valencia I would be all over trading for Young but that spot is filled. At this point in his career he is no longer a SS or 2B but if Young could play a cornor outfield spot I would be interested. He can be any worse than Delmon/Cuddy defensively could he?

What I would like to see is a trade like they did with Napoli. Twins trade for Young from the Ranges and then turn around flip him to the Angels.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 12:26 PM EST reply actions  

Here is my off the wall trade that would never happen but it amuses me!

Rangers and Twins trade
Rangers get Kubel/Slowey/minor league arm
Twins get Young +Cash

Twins turn around and trade with the Angels
Angels get Young
Twins get Torii Hunter!!!!

Ok will never happen and most of you hate Torii now that he is not a Twins, but if they brought him back he would be loved. Also, he would sell a fuck ton of jerseys the first day they go on sale.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Money isn't everything

Torrii is still putting up solid numbers, but he won’t for the rest of his bloated contract. Also, the Twins are so rich in minor league talent that it would only hurt them in the long run to block someone’s path with an old flame.

by haroldwiggins on Feb 8, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I would do this

Send Michael Cuddyer to Texas along with a pitcher, say Glen Perkins, then I would send Delmon Young to LA Angels with Kevin Slowey and a minor league pitcher.
We would get a minor league pitcher and a major league reliever from Texas, and Torii Hunter from the Angels. Following that, we sign Troy Glaus.

by Jessy S on Feb 8, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

No chance at "fair value" for the Rangers

Are all the mentions of unloading Kubel and Cuddy due to some assumption that we’ll need to dump salary to take him on? All indications are that the Rangers will eat a lot of this contract, particularly if we send them cheap young pitching.

The Santana analogy is an apt one. Rather than some kind of Cuddy/Kubel package, I’d expect something like, at absolute best for the Rangers, two from the list of Plouffe/Tosoni/Manship/Robertson/McCardell/Slama/Blackburn/Hunt (and maybe even, in irony of ironies, Guerra) and a low-A ball pitcher. The Rangers fans will feel like they got lousy value (because they didn’t get someone like Sano) — but that’s what happens when you’re trading an expensive declining vet and your hand was forced. Welcome to the club, boys.

Of course, first they have to decide if it’s even a good idea. Frankly I like the idea of having a veteran like this around, for all the reasons argued above, but only if the Rangers are basically paying him to be here.

by J. Ryan on Feb 8, 2011 12:30 PM EST reply actions  

Sorry

But there is no way that the Twins will trade for Michael Young without dumping salary. You are adding $16 million to $11 million to get $27 million. I don’t think the Rangers will eat salary by paying the Twins or any other team to take Young off their hands. Translation, in any proposed Rangers/Twins trade involving Michael Young, Michael Cuddyer has to go. At this point you are taking $16 million minus $11 million and end up with only a $5 million increase in payroll. However, you would also have to get rid of Delmon Young too.

by Jessy S on Feb 8, 2011 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Cuddyer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Young

Even money aside, I’d rather have Cuddyer on the Twins. Cuddyer is a better hitter than Young as Young has played half his games in Arlington. You can throw home/road splits out the window but it’s undeniable that is a hitters park. Target Field appears to be a pitchers park but it’s too small of a sample to know for sure. Based on just being at the plate I think Cuddyer is the better player at this point.

In the field, sure Young is probably the better defender but I would not be excited to see him in the middle infield at this point and there is nothing that would convince me he’d step into the outfield and be better than Cuddyer is out there. So money aside I’d still rather have Cuddyer, if only slightly. You add in the contract I don’t care if the Rangers offer 20 million along with him, I don’t want to be paying Young 8-10 million a year for the next 3 years. Stick with Cuddyer and let him walk at the end of this year. Then use the money where it’s needed.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Feb 8, 2011 12:46 PM EST reply actions  

+1

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Young vs Cuddyer using WAR

Career WAR/Last years WAR
Young:24.7/2.7
Cuddyer:7.4/-.2

If you want to agrue Cuddys contract for not going for Young fine. I 100% agree, but lets not devalue a player just because he doesn’t play for the Twins. If Young comes over his HRs would go down but his doubles would sky rocket.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

yah but I don't buy it completely

The main reason he’s at that point is the adjustment for defensive postion. I like WAR but it is not the be all endall. They were similar with the bat and Cuddyer was bouncing around positions last year and was playing injured in a pitchers park while Young played 3B all year.

If the Twins needed a 3B than I’d be more interested but since they don’t Cuddyer is a better fit. This isn’t blatant homerism it’s just my opinion. If you factor in the contract situations than a straight up trade Cuddy for Young would be a horrible move.

I also don’t get why his doubles would skyrocket? Even if you assume all his hits for homers would turn into doubles he’s go up a max of 20 and that’s assuming no homers. I would think some of those hits that would be homers in Arlington would be flyball outs in Target Field.

THe funny thing is, I like Micheal Young a lot as a player, I just don’t see the fit. If he were a free agent I’d pay him 2 years 10-12 million. I’d probably do the same on Cuddyer at this point. He’s way overpaid and I have little to no confidence he could even play a passable 2B at this point.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Feb 8, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont see the fit either

He is WAY, with a capital W A and Y, overpaid and I also have no confidence that he could play a passable 2B at this point. I also agree that WAR is not the end all be all and it does not show Cuddys overall value. I just feel people on this site are really under selling Youngs value while over blowing Cuddys.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Cuddy is signed for 1 year and Young is signed for 3

Three years is a long contract for an aging infielder.

by Stefa on Feb 8, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I also agree

I think if you read what I posted farther down you can see I don’t in any way shape or form want to trade for Young. I just feel people are not giving him his dues because he doesn’t play for the Twins, unlike Cuddy.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

JoeC at the Strib says "No chance"

http://bit.ly/gsGvm2

The Twins are on the list of teams for which Rangers infielder Michael Young would approve a trade, but there is no chance that’s going to happen now, a major league source said today.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Gardy MOY. Feel great disturbance in Force. As if millions of Internet cranks cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced." -BatGirl

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 8, 2011 12:52 PM EST reply actions  

My biggest problem with any trade for Young

If the Twins were willing to take on salary of any significance then they should have kept Hardy. I wasn’t even that against the Hardy trade as many were but I’d much rather have just kept Hardy for 6 million than traded for a longer term commitment to an older player who can’t field.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Feb 8, 2011 1:31 PM EST reply actions  

I checked Lone Star Ball to see their take on it.

A) LSB makes SSS seem like Strawberry Shortcake Land.
B) The general consensus seems to be “Good riddance.”

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Gardy MOY. Feel great disturbance in Force. As if millions of Internet cranks cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced." -BatGirl

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 8, 2011 1:32 PM EST reply actions  

+1

they are a group with issues. SS looks like a lovefest in comparison.

but the right pony can be like a friend with benefits...-montanatwinsfan 2/2/11

by carlpavanosmoustache on Feb 8, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually really like LSB in general.

From what I’ve read, a majority of the time they’re a great site.

by Jesse on Feb 8, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I like the site

And I have nothing against LSBans. LSBans are beautiful.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Me too

I checked them out just prior to our four game set vs the Rangers in Arlington, and they seem like a nice group. It is just that they were worried about Francisco Liranio’s start vs the Rangers.

by Jessy S on Feb 8, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

That's funny!

I’m not sure why that’s not green!

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Gardy MOY. Feel great disturbance in Force. As if millions of Internet cranks cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced." -BatGirl

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 9, 2011 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow

They are angry over there…

by Anjemon on Feb 8, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Frightening

Looks like they disagree with cmb above…slamming MY is all the rage in Texas.

by dctwin on Feb 8, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

All the rage for people on the internet

But coming from someone who is from there and talking to fans who are not hiding behind a screen name people LOVE HIM. He has been the most popular Texas athlete for years.

It is the same thing as people voting for the Twins to trade for him blindly. Homers will be homers.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

General consensus?

Monkeys flinging their shit at innocent bystanders

The cock is our friend------------if the minute hand sweeps faster.-BaylorWest

by thewild_viking_twins on Feb 8, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sensing a negative vibe from that thread...

The cock is our friend------------if the minute hand sweeps faster.-BaylorWest

by thewild_viking_twins on Feb 8, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Latest rumor is a 3 team trade MIN, COL, TEX

Principals are Delmon, MY and Eric Young

MIN gets Young
TEX gets Young
COL gets Young

by That'sWhatSheSaid on Feb 8, 2011 1:50 PM EST reply actions   3 recs

Where does that leave

the Chris Youngs on the Mets and D-Backs?

The cock is our friend------------if the minute hand sweeps faster.-BaylorWest

by thewild_viking_twins on Feb 8, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Translation

Min gets Eric Young
Texas gets Delmon Young
Colorado gets Michael Young

Info on Eric Young. He is a young Centerfielder (age 25) that made his major league debut August 25, 2009. The problem is that he missed about 3 1/2 months due to a stress fracture. He is a switch hitter batting .245 for his career with 1 HR, 9 RBI’s, and 21 stolen bases.

by Jessy S on Feb 8, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless....

Unless he can pitch and move to the bullpen, keep him out of Minnesota.

by boof_10 on Feb 8, 2011 2:11 PM EST reply actions  

He better not go to Minnesota

Unless it will cost the Twins significantly less than $5 million/season… I don’t know what is intriguing about a guy who has terrible, terrible road splits, and putting him in a pitchers ballpark….

Also, if such a move happened, so much for “dropping relievers because they couldn’t afford them”….

by Mark Kieffer on Feb 8, 2011 2:39 PM EST reply actions  

Young...

I think he’d be a great fit as DH/IF-Super-Sub/1B-insurance if Kubel were part of the deal. Rangers would definitely have to take on 15 mil or more in salary though. If that were the case, Twins can limit the net salary gain they’d take on to about 5 mil or less, which I would see as well worth it (I’ve liked Young’s bat for a long time, and think it would play very well in Target Field).

by MNTwinsGUFS on Feb 8, 2011 3:16 PM EST reply actions  

Just say.....

No. Not a chance. Next topic.

by Twins win on Feb 8, 2011 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

Seems like the Rangers would have to eat $40m to make that happen.

I imagine that even in the current situation they’ll do better than that somewhere.

It’s pretty much unimaginable that the Twins would trade anyone of major league significance here.

by timprov on Feb 8, 2011 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

Would he play SS for MN?

Since we have Valencia at 3B?

Skol

by SDVike on Feb 8, 2011 3:26 PM EST reply actions  

I sure hope not

The last time he played short, he had a -27 UZR.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

It is not happening

Which is good. Because if it was, I would have gone to the Twins Caravan in Des Moines tonight and grilled Bill Smith…..

by Mark Kieffer on Feb 8, 2011 5:02 PM EST reply actions  

You should do that anyway

Find out what he’s gonna do for a SS when Casilla needs to be replaced by mid-May.

"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series

by WindyCityTwinsFan on Feb 8, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Why Plouffe, of course IF he needs to be replaced

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

"I would have gone to the Twins Caravan in Des Moines tonight and grilled Bill Smith…..?"

I didn’t know there were cannibals in Des Moines.
Note to self: Avoid Iowa.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Gardy MOY. Feel great disturbance in Force. As if millions of Internet cranks cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced." -BatGirl

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 8, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions   3 recs

Yes, you should avoid Iowa

My brother goes to college there, and I know from experience it is a very… strange… state. The cannibalism may explain a few of his friends from Des Moines…

by twinsgirl197 on Feb 9, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

After some thought I think I would be willing to do Micheal Cuddyer for MY + 20 million

I still don’t love it but it would give us some flexibility should one of our MI fail. His bat would just about replace Cuddyer’s and I would think if need be he could handle a little outfield duty.

With our influx of talent coming in the outfield it wouldn’t be bad to have a guy like Young as a RH DH platoon and super utility.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Feb 8, 2011 5:44 PM EST reply actions  

I feel we can do that with Cuddyer if we needed to (emphasis on the word need)

I wouldn’t want to, but that’s how I feel towards Young. I don’t trust Young in the IF. I don’t trust Cuddyer in the IF. Their bats are equal. One’s cheaper.

The only thing that Young has over Cuddyer is a lot of recent experience in the IF. I don’t like either’s glove there. For me, it seems better to stand pat. If we needed a RH DH platoon and “super utility” Cuddyer can be it. I think he’d do just as well as Young.

Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD

by Twins33 on Feb 8, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I should have clarified, I’d be willing to do it, not that I was all for it. I can’t see the Rangers giving up 20 million and taking on a hefty contract like Cuddyers. I’m just saying that I would consider that move. I think Young would be more serviceable at 2B than Cuddy but I truly think Cuddyer’s the better hitter.

That and Cuddyer isn’t a whiner like Young. (this was just to get under cmb0252’s skin, I have no idea what kind of person Young is)

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Feb 8, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Your taking a shot at someones character

If you want to say Young is overpaid, has too long of a contract, old, no longer a viable IF, or that you like Cuddy better then cool. But your taking a shot at a guys character based on what? He wants to be traded after the front office has treated him like shit after all he has done for them? As someone who grew up in North Texas and has had a chance to meet Young, while working at two different charity events, I can tell you he is a stand up guy. He is one of the, if not the single most, charitable/active Dallas athlete. For a guy who has been so good to the fans, team, and the community I’m amazed how quickly people have forgotten all he has done.

The fact he Young is not asking to be traded because the Rangers wont win, like Greinke did, and he also sat around with out saying a word while the Rangers didn’t make the playoffs for his first 10 years in the league. Hell, they told him to his face that they were not trying to trade him and he will be their DH/1B and we find out after the Napoli trade they have been trying to trade him the whole time. If I was him I would feel “misled and manipulated”.

If the front office feels Beltre/Napoli gives them a better chance winning going forward I’m fine with that. It is a business and you have to do what you have to do, but that doesn’t give them the right to treat your players like shit.

by cmb0252 on Feb 8, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

+1....

there’s no doubt Young is one of the very best clubhouse/community guys in the entire sport.

by DJSkillz on Feb 8, 2011 10:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I was totally and completely joking

That’s why I put that in parentheses that I was just messing with you.

Like I said, I have no idea what kind of person Young is. I honestly do understand him getting upset with the way things have gone down this off season. I actually find the debate back and forth about his character a bit silly which is why i made the comment but thought I was making it clear that it was a joke, guess not. Either way, I’m not concerned with his character, nothing makes me think he’s a scumbag cancer or a great clubhouse guy. He seems like a good guy who plays the game well and isn’t a distraction, which is all that really matters.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Feb 8, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I could tell you were joking and I didn't mean to blow up

There are so few true “good guys” in sports and it annoys me when people attack, unjustifiably IMO, them for no reason. It is not even this blog that bugs me but many of the other ones. So many hateful people out there and after working all day it is sometimes hard to hold my tongue.

by cmb0252 on Feb 9, 2011 2:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I really hope

we don’t trade for Young

"It's not how deep you fish... It's how you wiggle your worm"

by 612 on Feb 9, 2011 1:45 AM EST reply actions  

We need Young

Because Morneau is a pussy.

Me? Just another sheeple on the internets.

by montanatwinsfan on Feb 9, 2011 10:35 PM EST reply actions  

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