Managerial Madness
Last night Twins fans were treated to yet another reminder that we'd be better off with J.J. Hardy rotting away on the disabled list (along with the rest of our team) than we would be with Jim Hoey in our bullpen. Hoey displayed his usual power fastball, accompanied by his usual lack of command and inability to get an out. He's now allowed 11 hits and walked two in just 5.1 innings of work. It's a small sample, but it's not as if this is a surprising outcome. He may once have been a promising bullpen prospect, but injuries and surgeries look like they've hindered that dream. At the very least, the Major Leagues aren't the place to work out his issues. It's a shame, and honestly, this post isn't going to be a knock on Hoey as a pitcher or a person. No one can discount the tremendous amount of pain and hard work he's gone through to reach the Majors after those injuries. It's an admirable display of dedication, drive, and desire; I imagine that when it comes down to it, few would be able to endure such trials.
No, this post is here to question why, oh why, Hoey was ever standing on the mound in the first place. Hoey's presence on the mound is just one of a slew of managerial decisions last night that should have everyone's head spinning. More after the jump.
Let's start from the beginning: Ron Gardenhire kicked off the day by penciling Matt Tolbert's name second on the lineup card. Tolbert entered last night's contest having reached base just five times in his last 33 plate appearances. His 0-5 on the night dropped that to five of 38 (that's a .132 OBP), but Gardy again filled out his lineup by position rather than logic, and in doing so ensured Tolbert's bat the second-most trips to the plate of anyone on the team.
I realize that going up and down the lineup, there's not many pretty OBPs, but I'd honestly prefer almost anyone on the roster in that spot. Even Ben Revere, despite his struggles thus far in the Majors, has the minor league track record to suggest he can get on base at a passable rate. But there was Tolbert in the two-hole, all the way through his last at-bat -- a three-pitch K against Hideki Okajima in the 10th that closed out his evening with a tired whimper.
But let's not get ahead of ourselves; it was the eighth inning when the Twins tied the game thanks to He Whose Name Not Need Be Mentioned (could it be anyone other than Jason Kubel?). With Ted Williams Kubel at first, the decision was made to pull him in favor of Alexi Casilla, who, in case you're wondering, is indeed still a Major League player. Or at least he plays one on TV.
Twins fans on Twitter erupted at the thought of Mantle Kubel being removed from the lineup. There were already two outs as Casilla took his place at first and Justin Morneau walked to the plate. And, in case you haven't noticed, Morneau's numbers are down a bit from 2010. Gardenhire defended the decision, stating: "We were going to steal second. That's why we put him out there. And that's what he did. We had a chance to win the game with Morneau. Pretty simple stuff, really." (Hat tip, MLB.com's Rhett Bollinger on Twitter -- follow him if you don't already)
Casilla did indeed swipe second, but Morneau whiffed, rendering the steal inconsequential. If you're a believer in Murphy's Law (which also happens to be the Twins' team motto this season), then you already knew the two-on, two-out situation with Casilla in the 10th was coming. And if you've seen most of Casilla's 1,200 career PAs, you anticipated the weak chopper to third base that ended the inning, and basically the game. For the record, Casilla entered that plate appearance 2-20 on the year as a right-handed hitter. Rene Tosoni remained on the bench because the Twins apparently felt like playing match-ups in that spot. Excellent.
Bringing this back full circle, though, the Twins found themselves with Hoey on the mound for the 11th inning, while $7.15M closer Matt Capps sat in the bullpen. Saving your best pitcher for the 9th inning (or whenever the save situation arises) is an outdated, flawed mentality in the first place, but it's even more mind-boggling when coupled with Gardy's explanation of pulling Kubel from the game.
The Twins exhibited a "win now" mentality, not worrying a lick about any future problems that may arise by removing their best hitter from the lineup, but elected to let Hoey pitch the 11th while their best reliever spectated. Worse yet, we're only two weeks removed from a day when the Twins were prepared to use Capps for two games in one day, but they felt like they couldn't pitch him for two innings tonight? On a night when he hasn't pitched since May 4th?
Of course there's the possibility that Capps blows the game anyway and we're still sitting here wondering how the Twins can possibly have baseball's worst record on May 10th. But rather than pull out all the stops to win, they elected to cross their fingers and hope that Jim Hoey of all people wouldn't be overmatched by Boston in the bottom of the 11th inning at Fenway Park.
Gardenhire had been tossed prior to the 11th inning, so there's no way to be certain that the Hoey decision wasn't solely on Scotty Ullger. Regardless of who made the call, the Twins can't have it both ways. If you're going to pinch-run for your team's best hitter with your third-worst and cite a win now mentality, you can't employ a wait-and-see mentality as you reserve your best remaining reliever in case he gets an opportunity to acquire a meaningless statistic. You can't pump the brakes once you cross that threshold. But that's what they did. "Pretty simple stuff, really."
Steve Adams also writes for MLBTradeRumors.com and contributes at 612Sports.net. You can follow him on Twitter: @Adams_Steve
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You know what else is madness?
The fact that ‘Jason Kubel and the 8 banjos’ aren’t hitting or scoring runs.
Your write-up was very good and well thought out. And we love to hindsight the manager to death when things aren’t going well. Of course the pinch-runner in the 8th was short-sighted, and of course it’s annoying the way Gardy protects the stat-oriented ‘closer position’. But getting on the manager isn’t my style. Baseball’s a GM’s game. And GMs are playing a poker game of imperfect information and uncertain outcomes. Literally every outcome other than Kubel and Span has gone poorly for the Twins.
The Twins aren’t in this position in the first place if they’d muster a 2nd run in the first place. But a mountain of injuries, and a lineup full of pressing, aggressive hitters consistently finding themselves hitting in pitcher counts is the real problem.
Waive Casilla
I think they just need to option, waive, cut or drop him off out in the country and drive away quick. Gardy needs to have the tempation to use Casilla removed. He does not add wins to the team.
by 20DingerDogs on May 10, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
As bad as he is
He’s still better than Tolbert
Uh-oh. Steve you broke the cardinal rule of Twins fandom.
Never question Gardy. Despite this being a sabermetric blog (for the most part) TT still has the never question the powers that be mentality. Be prepared for a slew of “FIRE GARY!” memes.
But in my opinion, you hit the head on the nail. While I’ve always admired his “stick up for your guys” mentality, I have always thought him a TERRIBLE in game tactician. And let’s be honest, even though he was ejected, he was still most likely telling Ullger what to do from the clubhouse.
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
by d-mac on May 10, 2011 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
If Gardy was telling Ullger what to do
That requires an suspension because Gardy was out of the game at the time.
Regardless, putting Matt Capps in the game to pitch the 11th is a no-brainer if he had not been used. Who knows what could have happened in the 12th. Maybe Michael Cuddyer would have hit a home run and that would have allowed Matt Capps to collect a win.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
Manager's tell the bench coach or third base coaches what to do after they are ejected all the time.
It’s not a big secret.
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
They share the same brain
For me, the 10th was a prime example of the poor management. With two on, one out, and Tolbert up to bat the infield was at double play depth and they had a left handed pitcher. The situation screamed bunt up the first base line and advance the runners with a good chance to get on, but we saw the decision they made.
oh good grief
Gardy gets bagged on constantly here. You can get down off the cross.
by ravenfly on May 10, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Exactly the attitude I am referring to.
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
by d-mac on May 10, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
what?
You’re the one who played the martyr with your preemptive whine about people defending Gardenhire. I called you on it. If not putting up with that particular dishonest arguing tactic is the “attitude you’re referring to,” I’ll gladly own up to it.
by ravenfly on May 10, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is ridiculous. People question Gardy all the time here.
Plenty of people would be glad to see him go and even his strongest defenders acknowledge he’s clearly flawed. At the same time, he has an excellent track record in Minnesota, so it’s not entirely ridiculous that he has defenders. You can be in favor of Gardy without being a mindless homer. And frankly, the in-game tactics point is well taken from time to time, but it’s constantly overplayed due to 20-20 hindsight.
by Luke in MN on May 10, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I should have stated it more clearly.
There are definitely a group that criticizes Gardy on here. But there is a group that blindly defends him and/or the FO because they know better than we do so we shouldn’t question them.
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
by d-mac on May 10, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How dare anyone criticize Gardy!!
He won Manager of the Year last year. He has won 800+ regular-season games for us, single-handedly. Our 6-21 playoff record during that time is 100% the fault of the players. Anyone who criticizes Gardy is obviously an idiot.
Is that the attitude you’re talking about? Yes I’ve seen it here too.
You're barking up the wrong tree
I consider myself one of the Gardy defenders ‘round these parts, but the stuff I defend him for is not his tactical foibles (which are many and mostly indefensible except for the fact that few MLB managers are any better). It’s the stuff like Zapf posted: “Oh, the Twins sucked in the playoffs, so the manager must be a buffoon who deserves to be fired!” without so much as a specific example of something Gardy did wrong. Tactical criticisms are fine, and encouraged. Complaints about nebulous stuff like “they just don’t seem confident” or “he has a mental block with the Yankees” or whatever is the stuff that infuriates me.
For what it’s worth, I think a lot of the Twins’ current struggles are Gardy’s fault, because I believe that Bill Smith gives him a lot of say in roster composition.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on May 10, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Thanks for proving my point.
I’ve never once said that Gardy should be fired, here or anywhere else. I’m not in favor of it and think it would do more harm than good. I’ve never once said anything like “Oh, the Twins sucked in the playoffs, so the manager must be a buffoon who deserves to be fired!” AND YET you come up with a bogus quote for me like I said that verbatim. Your post is just another example of the tactics on this board of putting words in people’s mouths, and this is an especially common tactic among those who blindly defend Gardy.
That came out a little more harsh than I intended
Apologies for being a bit of a jerk toward you there. I wasn’t really intending to put words in your mouth – I was generally conflating the theme of your comment with similarly-themed anti-Gardy comments in the past to form a fairly representative (with a bit of hyperbole) comment from the whole “FIRE GARY” fiasco of last fall. I didn’t think anyone would actually think you’d said that, seeing as how your post was only a few pixels up from mine.
Still, though, that leads me to another question: Is there really anyone here who believes that Gardy (or, for that matter, the front office) is beyond reproach? Honestly, I don’t recall anyone claiming that he’s anything approaching infallible – in my experience, most of the people who defend Gardy are defending him from the “confidence” and “postseason moxie” type arguments that have shown up the last couple Octobers.
It seems like each side has their own straw man that they’re setting up…
Position 1: Gardy’s teams choke in the playoffs, he has no ability to instill his team with the will to win, and he should be fired.
Position 2: Gardy knows best, and it is not our place to question him because he absolutely must know what he’s doing.
The logical positions are somewhere in the middle, but it seems like most of the people arguing (myself included, too much of the time) are trying to put their opponents into one of the above categories.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on May 10, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't see it either
I’ll blindly defend Gordon’s quirks to cmath (in good fun, I do understand why some folks hate the way he calls games though I will NEVER EVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS understand why anyone would want Attebury on their radio). I don’t see a lot of blind authoritarian Gardy-worship here. I can’t think of a whole lot of backlash against people calling out the ridiculous batting-order-by-position tactic, or being frustrated at his love of tiny sample size batter/pitcher matchup histories, or his love of getting after it and throwing the ball real good out there.
I do see people who blame Gardy for all the ills of an unjust society get made fun of pretty regularly, but I’m pretty on board with that.
by ravenfly on May 10, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can agree with that.
I appreciate the apologies and and I’ll freely admit that my earlier sarcastic post was an intentional exaggeration meant to parody those who defend Gardy. So I was guilty of the same thing, I just didn’t single anyone out specifically.
Anyway, just like you get exasperated with those who make nebulous complaints about Gardy and want him fired, I similarly get exasperated with those who insist that Gardy has nothing to do with the team’s failures (he’s not the one on the field making plays, not his fault the players didn’t execute, etc), while continually pointing out the team’s successes under him like he has everything to do with that success. You can’t have it both ways. If he deserves that much credit when the team succeeds, then he should also deserve at least some blame when the team fails. But people in the “positions” that you described want to assign all blame or no blame at all towards him, and neither side makes sense.
Or there is a third option that I fall under
It’s the players fault if the team doesn’t succeed (they are out there swinging the bat and pitching) and on the other hand if the team is going good, it’s because the players are playing well.
I think my group gets dismissed the most as either there aren’t many of us or we just get shoved into the Gardy apologist group.
Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD
There's a reason your group gets dismissed.
If that is really your position then It shouldn’t matter to you whether the manager gets fired or not. And if the manager has nothing to do with the team’s performance, why even have one? Save the money for getting better players.
I really don't care if he gets fired or not
I like him and we could do much worse for a manager (easily), but I wouldn’t cry if he was fired. I do think that Ullger, Liddle and and the medical team need to be fired for sure.
As for your second part, the manager doesn’t throw pitches or hit a baseball…but he does do other things that he’s needed for.
Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD
No
He meant fire Gardy.
Lifting Jason Kubel for a worse hitter is not a good idea.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
To be fair
it was for a better runner. The error was in assuming that Casilla would not get a later at-bat that was more critical than having a faster runner on at that time.
He did it last year for Thome once with the same result...
…I remember saying to my wife last night as Kubel got to first, he is gonna pinch run for him and he will come up in a big situation later in the game. On the other hand, you gotta feel badly for him with an all-star team on the disabled list. Almost as badly as one must feel for Jim Pohlad who signs those big checks for all the Twins down in Ft. Myers.
to be fair to Hoey
The pitch Crawford hit was looney tunes. How he got that good a swing at a pitch low and away was insane. That should have been a weak groundout, but it wasn’t and Hoey looks bad because of it. To be sure, the walk to Lowrie was lousy and he really hasn’t pitched well so to speak, but that was a good hit by a good hitter not much you can do.
And
That was likely evidence that Crawford’s bat was corked. In theory, you hit better with a corked bat because it removes some of the weight.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
It's also not Hoey's fault they traded Hardy.
Hardy was out of the Twins future plans. They traded him for whatever they could get, which just happened to be Jim Hoey.
Yeah, but this game aside, the basic point that it's odd that Hoey is on the team is a good one.
He hadn’t proved himself an MLB-ready prospect in Baltimore, but he switches orgs in a high-profile trade and all of a sudden he is? There’s some psychological principle that people attribute value to something to the extent that they’ve sacrificed to get it. That seems to be at play here.
We've seen that before
There’s some psychological principle that people attribute value to something to the extent that they’ve sacrificed to get it. That seems to be at play here.
Remember the time that the Twins handed the center field position and leadoff role to a guy who hit .230 the year before (and almost certainly could’ve used more time in the minors), because they’d traded the franchise’s most valuable player for him?
I just realized that through Gomez and Hardy, Hoey is fruit of the Santana trade.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
He is just Crainwreck II
He is way off now. His potential can be seen but the question is can he be fixed?
To be fair to Hoey
He was pitching well in Rochester prior to his call-up. The fact that so many relievers have been struggling made it almost a no-brainer to promote him. Unfortunately, he’s joined the likes of Manship and Hughes with struggling so far.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller.
by Andrew Bryz-Gornia on May 10, 2011 2:11 PM EDT reply actions
Blame Hoey for the loss
when the offense scored 1 run in 11 innings?
Naw….I blame the offense
but Fire Gardy
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on May 10, 2011 3:29 PM EDT reply actions
All the Twins needed was another clutch balk.....
Punto would have figured out a way, or get picked off trying!
?
“….and we’re still sitting here wondering how the Twins can possibly have baseball’s worst record on May 10th.”
At this point I could probably make the team. They just are a team full of bad players and that badness has rubbed off on the good players.
Capps last pitched May 4th
I’ll be very very sad if we see Capps today in a blowout because “he needed the work”.
Tolbert batting second again tonight. Yippie!
These lineups are just so much fun!
D Span CF
M Tolbert SS
J Kubel DH
J Morneau 1B
D Valencia 3B
M Cuddyer RF
R Tosoni LF
L Hughes 2B
D Butera C
fairness in conversation act
I don’t know that Tolbert is materially worse than anyone besides Span or Kubel in that lineup.
Man, we suck right now.
Without even looking
I can say that Cuddy, Valencia and Hughes are materially better than Tolbert. Morneau, even when slumping, is better than Tolbert. Tosoni probably is as well. That leaves only Butera.

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