Drew Butera's Walk-Off Single Caps Sweep of Padres as Twins Win 5-4
This was a game where you always had the sense that the Twins were going to be able to pull something off. Maybe it's been the good play of late and the winning streak(s), or maybe it was just something in the air, but even as the Padres lucked into a trio of pair of runs in the fifth and Glen Perkins didn't cover first base in the eighth, I never had that one moment where I thought the Twins were going to lose.
You know that moment. When, in a tight contest, something as intangible as momentum or just that rock that suddenly sinks in your stomach, and you give up the ghost that is hope. Not today.
Francisco Liriano wasn't great today. But he was good. He struck out eight in seven innings, allowing three runs off eight hits and a pair of walks. The Padres challenged him today. A trio of one-out singles in the fourth tied the game at one. Then in the fifth, when an infield single, a bunt and a swinging bunt combined with a walk and a sac fly to plate two runs, Liriano didn't lose his composure. It was a long inning, but he bounced back, and managed to get through two more innings in spite of a rising pitch count.
After Alexi Casilla homered in the bottom of the first to give the Twins a 1-0 lead, the bats went silent. Delmon Young singled to lead off the second, but after that Minnesota didn't pick up another base hit until Michael Cuddyer chucked a double down the third base line and into the left field corner.
At the time, the Twins trailed 3-1 and been all but cut out of the game's equation. Suffice it to say that it woke up the crowd, and it certainly woke up the offense.
Two batters later, Chase Headley threw the ball away, allowing Cuddyer to move up to third base and Luke Hughes to take second on the throw. Tsuyoshi Nishioka grounded out weakly to third, but managed to plate Cuddyer. And with two away, nobody would blame you if you'd have said "well, at least we got one this inning." But, as we've seen so many time before, baseball is a game for the most unlikely of heroes.
Rene Tosoni fought off an assortment of 3-2 pitches before pulling a bouncing groundball just inches inside first base for an RBI double to tie the game. Matt Tolbert followed up with a double into the left-center field gap to give the Twins the lead at 4-3. Target Field went electric.
Glen Perkins pitched the eighth, marking his return to the Twins and the bullpen. Headley struck out to lead off the inning, but Ryan Ludwick and Jesus Guzman singled to put runners on the corners with one away. Perkins got Carmeron Maybin (who looked absolutely terrible today, at everything) to fly out to right field, and Cuddyer's strong throw home kept Ludwick at third. An intentional walk to Orlando Hudson loaded the bases, and then Perk got Will Venable to ground out to first base.
Except...he didn't.
Venable's grounder wasn't a slow roller. It shot across the grass and Hughes dove to his right, making the stop. But when he popped up to make the throw, Perkins hadn't covered first base.
Now, in this situation, as the pitcher you probably expect the second baseman to make that play (if he's in a good position, which Casilla was), but that doesn't excuse Perkins from getting over to cover the base. No matter if Hughes makes the good stop, like he did, or if he retreats to first and entrusts the second baseman to make the play, the pitcher has to cover first. This play wasn't on Hughes. It was on Perkins. And it tied the game at four.
But Perk kept the game tied. He went right after Rob Johnson, striking him out. And Alex Burnett, when the Twins wilted offensively in the bottom half of the inning, pitched a perfect ninth. Cue the bottom of the inning.
Young singled on a ball to shortstop, as Jason Bartlett made a valiant effort but was just too deep in the hole to have a chance at getting Delmon at first. Hughes advanced Young on a bunt (questionable call), and then Chad Qualls intentionally walked Nishioka to get to Drew Butera (solid strategy).
Sometimes in baseball, as in life, even when you make perfect plans or put yourself in the right position, you don't always succeed. And, sometimes in baseball, even when you make a questionable judgment call, or when the game is on the line with the worst hitter in Major League Baseball at the plate, things still manage to work out in your favor.
Butera's ground ball glanced off the glove of a diving Headley at third, and into the outfield as Bartlett couldn't change direction quickly enough to recover the bounce. Young scored from second, game over.
And that's the series, ladies and gentlemen. Your Minnesota Twins have swept the San Diego Padres, have won seven in a row and 14 of 16, and are still the hottest team in baseball. If you want to jump on this bandwagon, now is probably the time to do it.
Notes
- Nishioka looks overmatched at the plate. When he's not bouncing out weakly to someone in the infield, his fly balls seem to lack pop and just float up there. I know he's just gotten back and it's early, so hopefully as he continues to adjust we can see him control the bat a bit better.
- Mauer, meanwhile, has hit a few balls hard but still hasn't gotten a hit since his first plate appearance back on Friday night.
- Liriano's ERA drops again, down to 4.59 after the game. Since his return from the DL, he's pitched 19 innings, struck out 24, allowed just 12 hits (no homers) and walked five. That's a 0.69 ERA, 0.62 WHIP, and a 1.50 GB:FB ratio.
- Ben Revere picked up another 0-fer, but made a nice diving catch on a ball that was clearly dancing on him late in the game.
- Casilla's homer was his first since July 30th of last season. Before that, his last home run was September 18, 2008, in a year when he hit seven. He'll never be a double-digit HR kind of guy, but I thought that as a full-time player he'd hit 5-7 a year. He still can this season, but he'd be off to a slow start.
- Revere, Casilla, Cuddyer, Young, and Hughes are all hitting at least .250 following today's game. It's a long climb from the hole they put themselves into, but some of these guys are slowly working themselves back. Young is still frustrating at the dish, so hopefully he can continue to hit well. We need him to if we're going to make a run at the division.
Studs
Francisco Liriano, Alex Burnett, Michael Cuddyer, Delmon Young, Rene Tosoni, Matt Tolbert, Drew Butera
Jury Still Out
I don't think Perk pitched as badly as his line might imply he did, but he needs to cover that bag
Duds
Nobody
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Comments
Liriano could have easily pitched 7 shutout innings but sometimes things don't go your way
It’s great that he looks dominant again. Great win and let’s see the Giants Tuesday!
by Coolio12 on Jun 19, 2011 6:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Liriano has pitched 20 innings since he came off the DL
If my math is right, 5 innings against Cleveland, 8 against Texas, and 7 today add up to 20.
by Coolio12 on Jun 19, 2011 6:03 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Picked the right game to go of this series...
Nothing like a walk-off and getting out of last place! Bring on the Giants!
"Lord, beer me strength."
Oh the humanity!!!
“Mauer, meanwhile, has hit a few balls hard but still hasn’t gotten a hit since his first plate appearance back on Friday night.”
I love reading this at 5:15 on Sunday…..lol I hope he gets it going, but his bat in the lineup is huge for the other guys….its one more player that pitcher cant take a mental break against. It shakes up the other mangers, you dont want to be the guy that Mauer gets “right” against. It will happen.
He'll get going
Like Danny Valencia, he is getting the contact, but the ball keeps finding the fielders.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I suspect Mauer and Nishioka are just still getting back in sync.
Molitor thought Mauer’s batting timing wasn’t quite back yet down in Ft. Myers, but that should come as long as he’s feeling healthy. Nishioka is still adjusting to MLB, America, everything I’m sure, so I don’t really expect him to show all he’s capable of in the first week back. Nice that the other guys are keeping the team winning while those two get their legs under them.
And I just thought of this
If one enjoys seeing Joe Mauer in the slump of his life, then San Francisco and their ballpark is not the place where you want to see a player like him break out of a slump. I am predicting plenty of Twins home runs to McCovey Cove. We have the bats even without Justin Morneau, Jim Thome, and Jason Kubel.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
battled his butt off
did y’all see this quote from Tolbert (!) about Tosoni?
“Tosoni came off the bench cold,” said Tolbert about Minnesota’s seventh. “He just battled his butt off. Everybody was excited. I was like, ‘There he is out there.’ It was the perfect opportunity to take the lead and I got one to fall in.”
I don’t know what to say.
"I was like, ‘There he is out there.’"
I was like that too! He was totally there out there!
This is incredible
I’ve never seen a team play this poorly and then this well in the same season. They put up one of the worst Aprils in team history and one of the worst Mays. Now they’re going for the best June in team history.
Perk
Didn’t he pitch Friday?
Was at the game today. Not a great game, but the no-names manage to do just enough again. Always fun to watch a walkoff.
by AM. on Jun 19, 2011 6:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
His name
is Rene. Yes he’s a man, and no you should not forget it.
by Luke in MN on Jun 19, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"God grab your neck but never choke" -Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jun 19, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently a very desirable man's name
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKlsgyWY21M
The only stat that counts is W
the streak is still alive!
needs to hold up until wednesday when I am going to the game I need some shit talking material after listening to my boss and his world series title all year.
Free Carlos Guiterrez! Free Chuck James!, Free Anthony Slama!
Mauer
Mauer is baby Jesus really? I think he’s the second most overrated player in baseball behind only Ichirio in Seattle. Why the hell are we paying him 23 million a year for when all he can do is hit singles. He can’t pull the ball and isn’t that great of a clutch hitter. Again why are we paying him that much money
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 6:59 PM EDT reply actions
All the other 3 time batting champion catchers were not available. Or even existed.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
by darren004 on Jun 19, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 20 recs
I wish i could rec this
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Jun 19, 2011 7:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Done.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"God grab your neck but never choke" -Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jun 19, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Mauer
So what he has 3 batting titles as a catcher! I don’t want to here that crap about it’s the most demanding position either. He won those batting titles because we played at the dome where those grounders got sped up because of the turf. His numbers have gone down every year since he won his MVP award. He is a singles hitter nothing more, He can’t pull the ball and now teams have adjusted to him either hitting the ball to left field or he hits into double plays can you say overrated. God forbid I say anything bad about Mauer
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Singles hitters don't post these numbers
.327/.402/.469/.871 ops+ 137
Singles hitters
Those are exactly the numbers a singles hitter post. Look up how many doubles did he hit last year, how many homers, how many RBI’s and where did he go in the playoff series against the Yankees the last couple of years. He’s not a clutch hitter, I want an occasional double with men on base with the game on the line instead of a 1-4 with a single. God Forbid I say anything bad about Mauer
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
who cares about that .400 OBP anyway
and god forbid he get injured
"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"METEOR" - JIM THOME
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Jun 19, 2011 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
.400 OBP
That’s another point he’s always injured for 23million a year he better start producing and stay on the field, leg weakness are you kidding me! Maybe if it was a broken leg I’d cut the guy a break but leg weakness better get your ass in the gym and hit the weights. Overrated
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahh, the good ol' "you're not tough enough!" argument.
Good times.
WordUpThome: OUR COMPTROLLER OF SECOND BASE AFFAIRS HAS BEEN HIT IN THE SHINJO BY A METEOR
Tweet me! @jessicann713
by fischean on Jun 19, 2011 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
43 doubles
second on the team. Do you understand how slg works? look up Ben Revere’s numbers. That’s the difference between avg and slg that a singles hitter posts
The league leader hit 49
That’s a LOT of doubles
43 was good enough for the 11th most doubles in the Majors
Even though he played about 15 less games than everyone above him.
by NYCisTwinsTerritory on Jun 20, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Stats
Those stats do not tell the whole story. How many RBI’s, Homers, How many base runners did he throw out last year, wasn’t he below the league average, how many passed balls
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Nishioka
I suppose your going to tell me that Nishioka isn’t over matched in both fielding and hitting either to aren’t yo archie2227. You probably think he’s going to be the next Cal don’t you? Even the little I’ve seen of him I can tell he can’t play in this league. You also didn’t respond about how the pitchers have been pitching better since Mauer got hurt. The pitchers also pitched better when he wasn’t catching last year. That’s what you call a trend
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Yep – Mauer gets injured and our pitchers become lights-out.
Mauer comes back and our pitchers start to suck. Except for Liriano today, and Baker yesterday. Looks like a trend to me.
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Jun 19, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Liriano
You must be one of those fair-weather fans, because if you weren’t a bandwagon jumper you’d know that Mauer didn’t catch today Riveria did Mauer was the DH
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
But Mauer caught yesterday
And Scott Baker was just splendid.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
by Jessy S on Jun 19, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Mauer DH-ing makes me a fair weather fan
Yes! I see the connection!
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Jun 20, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Die Hard Twins Fan
the only “true fan” that cries even when they win…
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
NO
No I’m just tired of lames like you who over-hype Mauer when in reality he’s not all that
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, those batting titles, gold gloves, and MVP award were all a fluke.
For several seasons.
WordUpThome: OUR COMPTROLLER OF SECOND BASE AFFAIRS HAS BEEN HIT IN THE SHINJO BY A METEOR
Tweet me! @jessicann713
by fischean on Jun 19, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Awards
I’ve already said that his batting titles were because of the dome and the turf, last time I checked he had one MVP, and he has 2 gold gloves for an average catcher. He’ll never be Pudge, Pizza, Mike Sosia
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Rings
Tell me this how many rings does Scioscia have and how many does Mauer have
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Scioscia: 2 as a player, 1 as a manager; and 0 for Mauer
Scioscia gave about 1.5 WAR for those 2 seasons.
Mauer’s Rookie season was the only complete season where he was below 4.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Do you know how many great players don't have rings?
Pointless.
WordUpThome: OUR COMPTROLLER OF SECOND BASE AFFAIRS HAS BEEN HIT IN THE SHINJO BY A METEOR
Tweet me! @jessicann713
by fischean on Jun 19, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
rings are everything
this is why Ted Williams is worthless and overrated
"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"METEOR" - JIM THOME
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Jun 19, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dan Marino is a terrible NFL Quarterback because he doesn't have a ring
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
The Same for
Warren Moon and Jim Kelly
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Also
Randall Cunningham and Tony Romo
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Don't knock Tony Romo
He is one of the better Quarterbacks in the League. Granted he will never be a Payton Manning or Tom Brady, but he doesn’t have to be just like them. Besides the Cowboys will win another Super Bowl before the Vikings win even one.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Romo has the poational
Just Like Francisco Liriano.
The difference is that Romo was the replacement for Drew Bledsow at halftime of a loss to the Giants, and that same team took out Romo and broke his collarbone in a loss last season. I seen what he can do and he is great with the resources the Cowboys have in their possession.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I can think of many QBs I'd rather have in the NFL before Romo
Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Ryan, Big Ben, Vick, both Mannings, Bradford (if he continues to improve/doesn’t regress), Rivers, Cutler. If you’re #12 out of 32; I wouldn’t consider you “one of the better” I’d consider you marginally above average.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
TROLL
CUTLER SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;-)
Lawl
As a Packers fan whose lived in Bears country for the last 4 years, I respect Cutler. Give him the same offense as Rodgers and he’d put up comparable numbers (probably a step or two down, but probably still high-caliber)
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
hmm....
Packers fan… I stand by my troll calling! haha
Wahn Wahn.
I’m probably the biggest Packers apologist in the world.
I foresaw terrible things happening in the Super Bowl (maybe that’s Hawkeye Football tainting my general viewpoint on football, but whatevs)
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Foresight
on a big game collapse. Thy name is Viking fans. I soooo bought into us beating the Saints. Heartbreaker
In a way you were right
The week and hours leading up to the game were pretty bad. At least an NFC team did win inside Jerryworld.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I was hating the total fellatio of the Packers by TWWL
I mean serious ESPN? Aaron Rodgers is good but he’s not that good.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
I agree with this list
But the fact is that Tony Romo is a great quarterback, but the resources given to Romo by the Cowboys front office don’t allow the Cowboys to be the best they can be. For example, our offensive line was junk and that junky line led to Romo’s collarbone injury. Had the line been marginal at best, the Cowboys would have made the playoffs last season. BTW six of the QB’s you listed have won at least one Super Bowl ring and there is no doubt that Tony Romo will get his with the Cowboys.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Oh, there's a doubt
Romo is a top half QB, but he has his limitations. However, worse QB’s have definitely won a title (Dilfer, cough cough, Dilfer).
My roommate deftly pointed out I missed Flacco on that list also
I’m not certain Romo is a Super Bowl caliber QB. It would take him moving to a different franchise with a system that fit him perfectly (and an awecore defense)
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Also, my roommate just raged that
“THE BEARS HAVE AN AWFUL O-LINE AND LOOK AT THEM”
Excuse me while I go beat him back with a stick.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
He's also talking to me about NFC Championship Games
But I feel that would not be friendly of me to bring up, so I’ll leave it at that.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Jim Kelly
Jim Kelly should have won one, never forgave the field goal kicker Scott Norwood for missing the field goal
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
But the actual difference in that game came when Buffalo scored a safety instead of a touchdown in that game. Even then if Bruce Smith scored that touchdown he and not Jim Kelly would have won MVP.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
From Fangraphs again
Cumulative War Graph by age for Mauer, Scioscia, Piazza and Ivan Rodriguez.

That huge dip in Mauer, is due to the small sample size this season.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
I had a sneaking suspision
That Die Hard Twins Fan was actually A.J. Pierzynski posting here, I knew he was bitter at Mauer all along after being traded to the Giants in one of the most lopsided trades of the last decade.
JIM JAMS BUSINESS IS MASHING TATERS, AND BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!
by MashinTaters on Jun 19, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
At least we agree with something
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I agree
Mauer will never be a pizza.
Do not feed the trolls, especially pizza.
A better catcher would be a pizza
Pudge was a pizza
"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"METEOR" - JIM THOME
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Jun 19, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Well if it is a matter of who can make the best pizza
With the current catchers on the roster, Butera obviously would win. I don’t know if they make pizza in Puerto Rico, so Rivera would get sent to Rochester and Mauer would back up.
Are you kidding me?
Joe Mauer would make the best pizza ever.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
So the goalposts moved
with the Nishi reference. Never a good sign. FTR, I’m not sold on Nishi yet. He’s made some good plays and he’s flubbed some plays he should have made. I’m also willing to give him some time to adjust to MLB. Also, I’ve given a dissenting opinion on Revere in previous threads (that he has not yet proven he’s ready for MLB). I also don’t harp on it for every bad play Revere makes. There’s a difference between dissent and trolling.
Trolling
No had a disagreement you all think Mauer is the shit and i just don’t see it. Don’t know why were fighting should be happy that the Twins are going to win this division
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You really are delusional.
Do you think the starting pitching can continue on the tear it’s been on lately?
Do you think the bullpen will turn it around and become adequate (hell, even mediocre)?
Do you think that Kubel, Thome, Span and Morneau will come off the DL healthy and not slumping?
Do you think the Piranha offense will continue to be productive?
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
You are the one that brought up this issue
The fact is that Joe Mauer is a great player and a future hall of famer, but you just don’t see those facts.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I'll find those stats for you:
4 Passed Balls last season. No idea what the league average is.
To use some Saberstats on you (from Fangraphs):
He was 1 run below average on stolen bases given up.
He was 4 runs above average on total catching defense.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Apparently you didn't pay attention.....
….. to the away games in those 3 seasons that he won those titles, I’m so sick of hearing dome this and dome that out of people like you, I seem to remember the Twins actually had a better road record than a home record in at least one of those years as well.
I’m starting to think that you are really just here to bitch…….maybe you should get some tickets to a daytime taping of “The View” you would fit in quite nicely on that show.
The guy is not right.
I didn’t think he was last year, and he has regressed this year.
I hope he can get it together, because I hate to see the guy come up with runners on right now.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
if i remember right
Mauer hit most of his homers on the road last year, and his HR total was down. but his doubles total was up from the year before. It brings me to one conclusion. Target field. 2 years ago, when he won the batting title, he was hitting in the metrodome, which has been known to have a ball or two hit the seats, whereas target field was not nearly as forgiving, especially in the right center area where Mauer likes to hit.
Plus last year he played injured quite a bit of the year, and still batted over .300. he’ll come around, he always does
when asked by Dan Patrick if his name alluded to not making quick decisions in the pocket, Ponder calmly replied "As crazy as it sounds, my mom's maiden name is actually Superbowlwinner. All one word"
Maybe he needs to adjust to Target Field then.
To me he hits more to left and left center, and they have that played well. He needs to adjust, it appears to me that the league has adjusted to him.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
I don't get it then
Almost all of his HRs in 2009 were to left center, which is the most forgiving area in Target Field. He’s been playing injured for a year, and so I hope he is better now.
Those homers that were sneaking over the fence at the dome are getting
caught on the warning track at TF. The opposition has adjusted to Mauer, he needs to adjust to them.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
His career numbers make him one of the best-hitting catchers of all time
No he doesn’t hit a ton of homers, but he does everything else well. He’s hit over his career almost exactly as well as Mark Teixeira and Kevin Youkillis, who are two of the better-hitting first basemen around. Joe Mauer plays catcher (fyi), and plays it very well.
Do people really not know this? I understand questioning his durability and maybe judgment for failing to stay on the field this year—it’s objectively true that he’s not produced this year—but do people really not understand how good he’s been in his career?
Maybe the catching is starting to be too much.
His body size is not well suited for him to stay at catcher. The durability is going to be a problem and may be taking a toll already. His offensive numbers regressed quite a bit last year and the start of this season has been dismal.
Yes, he HAS been one of the best catchers in history, but I think the Twins better seriously be thinking about getting him another position. Otherwise he is going to be an anchor around their necks for 7 more years.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
He's three games off the DL, what is everyone's problem today
Its essentially still mid-April for him. You remember how crazy mid-April stats are. Sample sizes are still small for him.
Geez, we have a nice 3-game sweep and all people can think of doing is dumping on the franchise player.
In his MVP season, he hit from day 1.
I think people are making too many excuses for him.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
Go and look at the stats from that season
Did he ever have a stretch where he went (gasp) 1 for 10 or 1 for 12???
I bet it happened multiple times.
Sometimes I wish the internet didn’t exist. That way, I wouldn’t be subject to so much stupidity.
by matswilander on Jun 19, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
That has to be comedy at its best
The Chairman had a great season, but you expect slumps from any player including Joe Mauer. Even Babe Ruth had a ton of slumps during his career.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
He's 0 for 2011.
He’s hitting .200. He was just on the DL for 2 months for sore legs. Meanwhile there’s a new commercial every other day.
If you are making $23 mil, you better be doing a lot more than what we’ve gotten from him. We could have 2-3 decent players for what he is costing this club, and we could have used 2-3 decent players in April and May.
If he had had a broken leg or something for the last 2 months, maybe I’d cut the guy a little slack, but he’s going to have to be amazing to get me off his case.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
You should find a different team
He was never as good as you expect him to be. The salary is just giving you an excuse to complain. How upset are you going to be when we don’t sweep a series?
Some people don’t like professional sports. Try college ball.
by DavidRF on Jun 19, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Find a Different Team
Your Right I haven’t like him since about his 2 year in the league. The Twins promised the power would come with him really when 8 years later and still waiting for that power to show up
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
And you will never like him.
See you in 8 years!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"God grab your neck but never choke" -Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jun 19, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don't think you like baseball
I think you like home run derby. They’re not the same sport.
Memo to Die Hard
In baseball, a 70% failure rate is considered hall of fame for batters. Joe Mauer is slightly above that mark.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Mauer
I just don’t see it. When I think of great catchers I think of people like Johnny Bench, Pudge, Alomar, Carter
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Sandy Alomar Jr.?
He was good for like a year an a half. Not only have you moved the goalposts, you have them upside-down and perhaps located somewhere in the stands. In fact, I’m starting to think I hallucinated this entire post. This has moved beyond schtick into the realm of complete insanity.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
When I think of great outfielders
I think of people like Ruth, Williams, Aaron, Marty Cordova, Musial
by DJL44 on Jun 20, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Marty was one of a kind
They likely broke the mold with him.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Mauer
Speaking of stupidity, Look here moron his numbers have gone down every year since he won his MVP award. He can only hit the ball to left field, and when he’s not hitting it to left field he’s grounding into double plays. The league has adjusted to him, if he isn’t going to learn to pull the ball send him to the minors. He also doesn’t call that good of a game either, Fucking Ironic isn’t it how the pitchers started to pitch better after he strained his uterus. I’d rather have Morales, or Rene River. He is overrated and not worth the contract he signed.
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
One year
You mean his numbers have gone down in the one year since the year that was one of the best seasons of all time??? Shocking!
His year hasnt even started yet. 40 at bats does not a season make.
by matswilander on Jun 19, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
40 at bats
Do you want to make a bet? I bet $350 that he doesn’t even hit .300 this year
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Just curious - why $350?
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Jun 19, 2011 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
$
Why how much money do you want to loose. 1,000
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet $350 you aren't even a Twins fan.
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
by urluckyday on Jun 19, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not a Twins Fan
Send me my money! I was with them during the hard times while everbodyelse on this post are bandwagon jumpers
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
He'll finish over .300 this year
I don’t need your money. Just for you to make a fan post admitting you were wrong.
Do you want to know the terrifying truth, or do you want to see me sock a few dingers?
by natetheskate on Jun 20, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
.300
If I’m wrong I’ll post and admit it
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I’m sure that you were sticking with them when Castino was having numerous back surgeries, Redfern was paralyzed, and when Gary Ward was still playing third wearing a helmet and protective face shield.
……or did you start to follow them after 87
Hey, guys, give him credit
He obviously was watching baseball in the nineties, because he thinks Sandy Alomar is good. Granted, he apparently only followed the sport during 1990 and 1997, but the Twins were legitimately terrible both of those years.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Started Watching
I started watching baseball in 1986 through present
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Too much sports talk radio.
Gotta whine about something
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"God grab your neck but never choke" -Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jun 19, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah - sounds like the typical KFAN sportsbot
just regurgitate whatever you heard on the drive to work….I deal with these guys all day at work. I bet $350 that “Die Hard Twins Fan” is a season ticket holder.
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Jun 19, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
... and he'll be fondly reminiscing about Joe Mauer to his grandkids 40 years from now
This isn’t that uncommon. I guess Phillies fans never liked Mike Schmidt.
by DavidRF on Jun 19, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reminsiscing about Mauer
Never in a million years, I be reminiscing about the catchers I wish the Twins would have gone out and got. Matt Weiters from Balt, Y Torrealba Tex, Jarrod Saltalmacchia Bos, and last Ramon Hernadez Cinci
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
The idea of reminiscing about a bunch of things that never happened....
….is actually kind of pathetic
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Jun 19, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Patetic
I’d take any of those catchers ahead of Mauer. How the hell was this guy a qb recruit for Florida State, When he can’t even stay healthy catching.
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that knee injury in the Metrodome his rookie year wouldn't have injured anyone but him and his weak legs
And spine inflammation, damn that’s just a pansy ass injury.
Bilateral leg weakness was probably a ruse. Really hardcore flu and an injury he played through that required surgery in the offseason and ended in him not being ready for spring training.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Point
You just made my point. Good luck paying off that contract in 3-4 years when he can’t play anymore.And if the Twins leave him at catcher he will be out of the league in 3-4 years. I know the twins probably have insurance on his contract but still……Injury prone
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You very much missed my sarcasm there on the first two points
If he’d have told the team after his surgery that he wouldn’t be ready for opening day and he’d need some time off to continue rehabbing, I don’t think this situation would have happened, he was eager to come back to the team and make in impact.
He’ll undoubtedly be moved once he realizes he’ll be unable to perform at a high level at catcher. Until then, I have no problem with him catching.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Some great players on that list
I can only hope Joe Mauer reaches their respective levels of success.
Choke
At least these players show up in postseason when it all counts
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Matt Weiters has an abundence of postseason experience to fall back on.
by John_Locke on Jun 19, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Weiters
Only third year in the league maybe fourth, and he plays in a much tougher division than our beloved Twins
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Saltalamacchia is rubbish and has zero playoff experience (by my research at least)
Ramon Hernandez is old as dirt and you might remember (doubtful) his .059 batting average in the ALDS against the Twins.
Torrealba ain’t bad, but he’s a subpar hitter. (.703 Career OPS and about the same in the playoffs)
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
We're paying him $23M because he's been worth at least that much 4 of the last 5 seasons
Source again: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1857&position=C#value
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Not Really
Not Really overpaid, Remember The Wolves gave all that money to Garnett, and then didn’t have any money to put pieces around him. Watch that’s what this will become, Justin’s contract is coming up pretty soon, we’ll loose him because of Mauer’s Contract, Kubels is coming up after this year I think, won’t be back because of Mauer, Cuddy’s is up at the end of year, not coming back because of Mauer’s contract, we’ve already lost Crain, and big John because of Mauer’s contract, do you really have faith that ownership will step up and keep our player’s? I don’t because their cheap just like the late Carl Pohlad
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Mauer gets a 10M raise and our whole 50M/yr extra budget per year is blown. You really need to stop making claims that are so easy to research.
Garnett didn't have the pieces around him for completely different reasons than his contract
1) the Joe Smith incident
2) the Ray Allen for Starbury trade
3) Kevin McHale being a piss-poor GM.
The reason we didn’t get Crain and Rauch back was because the management had a huge hard-on for Matt Capps and didn’t want to make the Wilson Ramos trade look like a rent-a-player for prospect deal.
Kubel will likely sign for a smaller deal because he recognizes he’ll be more of a DH, occasional OF option. Cuddy will be back due to his loyalty to the club (probably with a home-town discount). I believe Morneau has stated he’d love to be a lifer with the Twins.
Between Capps, Nathan and Delmon coming off next year there will be plenty of room in the budget.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
If only we could have McHale back
wait, did I just say that? Hated his kid. Their damn team kept us from regionals in the Little League World Series!
True. McHale would be an improvement
And that’s coming from someone who hasn’t followed the TWolves since Garnett left.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Fun game to be at.
I was pretty shocked went Casilla went deep since it had been a long time since he last hit one out. My dad and I were pretty annoyed that Perk forgot to cover first, but it was fun to see a walkoff.
7 in a row! We’re getting back into the race with every win.
"Danny Valencia is a fricking stud! Hide your daughters!"
-Denard Span
No longer in last place either... :-)
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
Yeah - and just a scratch and a claw away from 3rd
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Jun 19, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
After all the complaints about Mauer's hitting by at least one semi-troll (see above)
Did everyone forget how good this guy’s defense is? His amazing swing only tells half the story…
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
He's not gold glove worthy
But Mauer is above average defensively.
by Coolio12 on Jun 19, 2011 10:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
semi-troll?
He is full blown. And a good one too, he has everyone, including me, getting a little angry.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
He has a right to an opinion
Even if it’s a dumb and ignorant opinion.
by Coolio12 on Jun 19, 2011 10:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Opinion, and hostility for hostility's sake are two different things.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
I LOVE educating illogical trolls.
I’ve got time. This will be fun.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Besides we do have an off day tomorrow
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Off day
That’s what scares me because their playing so well right now I don’t want to loose any potential momentum. Although the Giants are not exactly Murder’s Row either, More like Padres good pitching lousy offense. At least they will miss Cain
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
They had an off-day last Monday and the Rainout against the W-Sox this week
A day off isn’t going to be a lynch pin.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Do me a favor?
Look up the difference between loose and lose. That’s three times now you’ve used the wrong one in this thread. KTHXBAI
[/grammernerd]
The only stat that counts is W
look up
Yeah I know type to fast sometimes
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
you mean grammarnerd
but yeah, perhaps people would take him more seriously if he presented himself as though english is his second language
Haha!
Loosers!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"God grab your neck but never choke" -Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jun 20, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
the only stat that matters is World Series MVP
How many of those does hammock legs Mauer have? That’s right, he has -1!!! He is penalized 1 because we pay him $23 million!!!
Also, Edgar Renteria > Babe Ruth!!!
"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"METEOR" - JIM THOME
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Jun 19, 2011 10:46 PM EDT reply actions
So is Scott Brosius for that matter.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
David Eckstien is the best SS of all-time
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
So much grit!
WordUpThome: OUR COMPTROLLER OF SECOND BASE AFFAIRS HAS BEEN HIT IN THE SHINJO BY A METEOR
Tweet me! @jessicann713
World Series MVp
World Series MVP really when was Mauer in the World Series
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly!!!
"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"METEOR" - JIM THOME
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Jun 19, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe Mauer
Might have attended the 1991 World Series.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Somebody here is trying to get banned
I won’t name names. What is his motivation? Is he drunk? Is he bored? Does he want to complain on KFAN pages that he was banned from Twinkie Town and improve his bonafides?
by DJL44 on Jun 19, 2011 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
K-Fan
I don’t associate with K-Fan because I don’t like Paul Allen
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 19, 2011 11:54 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Common Man and Barierro are tolerable when they don't talk about baseball
But fuck Paul Allen. Rec’ed you for this first awesome thing you’ve said.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Pitching
Yes I think the Twins can continue with the string of good pitching. Look at the Giants last year. If the starters keep going deep in the ballgame we won’t need the bullpen as much effectively taking it out of the equation. I know there will be some rough patches still to come but if they remain consistent I think they will be ok. As far as the hitting goes I think Span, Kubel, Thome will hit. Morneau I would be happy if he hit 10-15 homers and drove in around 80
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 12:14 AM EDT reply actions
I'm really worried about Span
Do you want to know the terrifying truth, or do you want to see me sock a few dingers?
by natetheskate on Jun 20, 2011 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
You can’t feasibly expect 7, 8, 9 inning performances by these pitchers night in, night out. They’re going to get worn out (especially Liriano). The bullpen will still be a factor in the 6, 7 and 8 inning nights, whether they’re adequate or not.
Assuming Span comes back and doesn’t continue to suffer like Morneau did, he’ll be fine.
Even a luke warm Kubel would be nice right now (instead of a Rene Tosoni DH)
Thome will probably hit the DL one more time this season.
And assuming Morneau’s wrist is fine, he’ll be back in form by August and probably do what you expect.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Hey.
Rene Tosoni came up HUGE today. How dare you besmirch his good name?
haha
WordUpThome: OUR COMPTROLLER OF SECOND BASE AFFAIRS HAS BEEN HIT IN THE SHINJO BY A METEOR
Tweet me! @jessicann713
Do you guys think Pete Rose should be allowed in the hall of fame if he pays $23 M a year to the Twins?
Do you want to know the terrifying truth, or do you want to see me sock a few dingers?
Joke I haven't mentioned until now
But with the rumors going around that Morneau hurt his wrist in reaction to a strike out: are we sure it wasn’t due to a Canucks loss? Are we sure he isn’t lost in Vancouver after the riots?
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Wrist
Maybe did somebody check on him after the Canucks loss
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Pete Rose
Forget about paying the Twins 23 M a year. He should be in period
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 12:19 AM EDT reply actions
Rose?
But he never hit more than 16 HR’s in a single season. No way is he hall of fame worthy.
by MNSportsGuy on Jun 20, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
rose
But he still holds the all time hits record. A record that will never be broken. Also he played in a different ERA.
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Forgot the sarcasm font
I was just under the impression that singles were meaningless to you. In terms of different ERA’s is it really Mauer’s fault that others were juicing when he first came into the league and he wasn’t?
Rose
All I’m going to say about Rose is that if you let Bonds, Clemens, Pettite, Sosa, Mark M in you have to let in Rose, because his transgressions were far less severe Arguably. He also didn’t cheat the game as a player
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Ironic trolling taken seriously
My fault for starting the whole Rose thing in the other thread. Sorry about that.
The Rose thing with the HOF is a technicality. He’s obviously deserving as a player, but he’s deservedly banned from the game for life for gambling on the game. Gambling has been a banned-for-life-worthy offense for more than a century and that rule has been posted in every locker room for at least 90 years. Gambling is worse than cheating because it usually ends up leading to game fixing. When fans lose faith that the players (and managers) are trying, then major league baseball ceases to be a sport. Forty years of scandals rocked the sport until they cracked down. That’s why the rules are so much harsher for gambling than they are for other offenses.
Now Cooperstown chooses not to allow permanently-ineligible players to be inducted into the HOF. That’s their choice. Quibble with that if you will, but nobody actually wants Rose reinstated into baseball because their afraid of what he would do. The fact that the ineligibility lasts longer than the person’s life is another technicality. Joe Jackson isn’t going to hurt the game anymore — he’s been dead since 1951 — but its hard to motivate MLB to posthumously lift the ban on a player who is known to be guilty. So, there it is. Interestingly, those two are more famous banned then they would be inducted.
Mark McGwire isn’t banned from baseball. He’s currently the Cardinals hitting coach, so he’s employed by baseball right now. Whether he’ll ever get the votes is questionable, but its not a question of eligibility.
Its the subtle distinction between the gambling vs. cheating penalties that make this such easy troll bait and I apologize for bringing it up…. even ironically.
Roiders
MLB is going to have its hands full when trying to decide who from the last couple of decades will be allowed into the hall due to the large numb of people that were juicing at the time. They may give them the Rose treatment and wait until they pass on before putting them in the Hall, as this has always been my assumption for what they will do to Rose. Honestly I think it is justified for Rose as he did break Baseball’s golden rule. This would take an entire thread for me to go into detail on my opinion so I will leave it at this.
Apples and Oranges
Rose is on MLB’s permanently ineligible list, so Cooperstown does not allow him on any ballots, writers are not allowed to vote for him and no veteran committees are allowed to consider him.
Some of the Roiders were temporarily suspended, but none were ever banned by MLB. There’s no “Rose treatment”. They are on the ballots and writers can vote for them. They’re just not voting for them so far (Palmiero 11% last year, McGwire ~20% in each of his five years) but they can change their minds if they wanted to.
MLB, Cooperstown and the BBWAA are three different organizations.
True
But the writers would vote for Rose tomorrow if they had the chance. The thing is that there is currently match fixing going on in the soccer Gold Cup (source is Yahoo sports) and if that is the case, there will be hell to pay for some players. Heck, the United States might have beat Jamaica with Jamaica quitting yesterday’s game. This is even after two US team players were allowed to attend weddings on Saturday according to Martin Rogers of Yahoo Sports.
Therefore, I understand why Pete Rose was banned for life by baseball. I understand completely that Rose bet on the games he managed as Reds manager and that he needed to be banned. However, the argument exists for his enshrinement into the hall of fame as a player. There is no evidence that he bet on games as a player. Enshrinement would not lift the ban because Rose deserves enshrinement as a player, his numbers, and how he played the game.
On the other hand, Shoeless Joe Jackson deserves what he got. Yes he and seven others were acquitted on gambling charges, but trial juries are instructed to go beyond a reasonable doubt. The reasonable doubt comes from the fact that just maybe the Cincinnati Reds were the better team and Chicago gave it their all. The case in point rests with the 1988 Oakland A’s who lost the World Series in five games after being forced to outlast a 104 win Twins team during the season. Regardless, there is evidence that Jackson may have taken a payoff to lose because the White Sox were a great team in 1919 and were favored to win the World Series that year.
Sorry for my rambling, but my point is that Joe Jackson does not deserve to be in the hall of fame due to betting against the White Sox as a player while Pete Rose deserves to be in the hall due to his antics as a player.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Antics: foolish, outrageous, or amusing behavior
Pete Rose deserves to be in the hall due to his antics as a player.
What’d he do? Set fire to the opposing players shoelaces during the WS?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"God grab your neck but never choke" -Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jun 20, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
No, but that was Bert during the 1979 and 1987 World Series
Pete Rose was one of the best players of his time where he has the all-time hit mark and he played all out meaning that he gave it his all everytime he was on the field and for every out.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Pitching
I’m not asking them to go 8 or 9 innings just 7 on a consistent basis. Obviously there will be rough patches but if they keep those to a minimum they will be ok
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 12:22 AM EDT reply actions
Who's the 8th inning guy for the Twins?
Are you confident in Fat Matt Capps?
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Capps
That’s a touch and go. More confident in him right now than Nathan I guess
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
8th innning guy
I am comfortable with Perkins/ Burnett even though they both gave up some runs in this series. Perkins wouldn’t have given up any had he just covered first base PFP
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
There appear to be comments missing.
I want the name and address of whoever took them!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"God grab your neck but never choke" -Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jun 20, 2011 12:31 AM EDT reply actions
fischean.
1234 No Way in Hell St.
St. Paul, MN 55555
WordUpThome: OUR COMPTROLLER OF SECOND BASE AFFAIRS HAS BEEN HIT IN THE SHINJO BY A METEOR
Tweet me! @jessicann713
Oh, it's on!
It’ll take me a while to find my way around St. Paul, but it is so on!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"God grab your neck but never choke" -Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jun 20, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait a sec...
55555 is the Zip Code of Young America, MN, not St Paul.
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
Hey, I live right next to you on I'll Be Damned Ln!
Baseball reminds us of all that once was good, and that could be again.-Terence Mann/James Earl Jones in FoD
by Twins33 on Jun 20, 2011 12:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It is right next to rich North Dakota
And Minnesota Shutdown corner.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Gibson
When do you think they will call up Kyle Gibson for more pitching help
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 12:35 AM EDT reply actions
Delmon Young
I know Delmon had a good home stand, but can you really trust him. I think they should throw him out their as trade bait, if Span gets healthy and try to find a closer for him
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jun 20, 2011 12:39 AM EDT reply actions
I'd just like to say
that I loved waking up to 200 comments this morning. I also like how well presented the pro-Mauer arguments were in spite of the fact that the anti-Mauer arguments were baseless and uninformed.
When did Twinkie Town get so Trolled-Up??
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Jun 20, 2011 9:45 AM EDT reply actions
This is the edited string too. It was worse.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
this is edited??!!
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Jun 20, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
You missed DHTF challenging all comers to a fistfight
It was hilarious!
He was dead serious too!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"God grab your neck but never choke" -Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jun 20, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
AWESOME
I want those posts back, because that would be tons of fun to see.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
You also missed Twinsgirl197 threatening to lose her lady status.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
That was one of many missing posts that made me smirk
Cheering for inconsistent, undisciplined teams [Twins, Wild, Packers, Hawkeyes] since 1989. "False Hope is better than No Hope"
haha
all I did was say I wanted to say something but that it wouldn’t be very lady like… He was saying some pretty harsh things and I wasn’t going to take it
"There are three things in my life which I really love: God, my family, and baseball. The only problem—once baseball season starts, I change the order around a bit." -Al Gallagher
by twinsgirl197 on Jun 20, 2011 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Darn
I missed all the fun. Probably wouldn’t have re-engaged him after going out had I known about the fight challenge, though.
Oh, hey, good morning Twinkietown
I saw the 200+ comments and wondered what in the world could have people so fired up in a game recap. And…now I know :)
by dctwin on Jun 20, 2011 10:44 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You should check out Blogging the Boys after a Cowboys Game
Game recaps get above 200 comments within the first few hours.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
That would involve pretending to be a Cowboys fan
I’m not about to stoop to depths like that.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
It would, however, put you on par with most other Cowboys fans.
WordUpThome: OUR COMPTROLLER OF SECOND BASE AFFAIRS HAS BEEN HIT IN THE SHINJO BY A METEOR
Tweet me! @jessicann713
by fischean on Jun 20, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Wonderful
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Haha!
But I will still find that address and fight you though.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"God grab your neck but never choke" -Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jun 20, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions

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