Revisiting the Capps Trade (Again)
On July 30 of last season, Bill Smith finalized a trade that proved to be extremely controversial among Twins fans:
Washington Nationals trade RHP Matt Capps to Minnesota Twins; Minnesota Twins trade C Wilson Ramos to Washington Nationals and Fort Myers Miracle trade LHP Joe Testa to Potomac Nationals.
A day later, another trade was finalized between two different teams, to much less fan fare (and dispute):
Arizona Diamondbacks trade RHP Chad Qualls to Tampa Bay Rays. Tampa Bay Rays agree to send a Player To Be Named Later to Arizona Diamondbacks.
Like many Twins fans, I was dumbfounded by the Capps-Ramos swap, especially considering Jon Rauch's relative effectiveness at turning two and three-run ninth-inning leads into wins. I held my ire in check the day the trade was announced, however, not wanting to jump on Bill Smith too quickly for making the type of win-now moves Twins fans had been clamoring for during virtually the entirety of the Ron Gardenhire era.
That was until I saw the eventual price the Rays paid to add Qualls just 24 hours later.
Granted, at the time, Capps and Qualls looked like completely different players. Capps was closing games for the Washington Nationals, and had posted a 2.74 ERA in 46 innings. Qualls had lost his closer gig in Arizona, and was sporting an 8.29 ERA in 38 innings when he was shipped off for spare parts.
Of course, things weren't as simple as they seemed at the time. Qualls, at the time of the trade, was quite simply the unluckiest pitcher in baseball. A BABIP of .415 and a left on base percentage of 51.4% were both the worst figures in baseball at the time of the deal. His luck-independent statistics showed Qualls was actually pitching fairly effectively - his xFIP at the time of his trade was just 3.68. Capps had a 3.34 xFIP when he was dealt to the Twins.
Clearly, Capps was the better pitcher at the time of the trade. But in order to acquire him, the Twins had to give up one of the best catching prospects in baseball. The price for Qualls was PTBNL who, as it turned out, was a AA reliever who underwent Tommy John surgery in March. I remember pointing this out to my work colleague the day of the Qualls trade, suggesting the Rays would likely get 90% of Capps' production out of Qualls, at about 10% of the cost.
That prediction looked a bit foolish by the end of the season, as Capps pitched brilliantly for the Twins - posting a 2.00 ERA and netting 16 saves in 27 innings - while Qualls posted a 5.57 ERA in 21 innings as a middle-reliever for the Rays.
But, again, things weren't quite as simple as they appeared. Capps clearly remained the better pitcher, but the difference wasn't nearly as large as the divide in their ERA's suggested. By the end of the season, Capps' xFIP sat at 3.31. Qualls xFIP was 3.77.
It's certainly debatable whether the 2010 Twins should have given up an upper-echelon prospect to acquire a reliever having a great season, rather than moving a spare part to acquire a low-cost reliever with significant upside. Given where the organization sat last July, they very well may have made the right choice at the time. But, boy, does it invite some second-guessing, especially looking at what Qualls and Capps have done since the end of the 2010 season.
Qualls signed a one-year, $1.5 million deal with the Padres during the off-season, which has looked like a pretty great deal in the early-going of 2011. Qualls' ERA is down to 2.01, and he's pounding hitters with his heavy sinker, generating ground balls at a one of the highest rates in the Majors. Granted, he gets to make half his appearances at Petco, but even on the road he's posted a sub-3.00 ERA. His xFIP on the season is a stellar 3.17.
Capps, as we know, avoided arbitration with the Twins by signing a $7.15 million contract with the team in January. That deal hasn't worked out quite as well as the Rays' deal with Qualls. Capps' strikeout rate has dipped considerably in the first couple months of the season, and, despite some good fortune from the gods of BABIP, he's still posting an ERA of 4.33. His xFIP is slightly better, and sits at 3.74.
Now imagine a scenario where the Twins had shipped an organizational reliever to the Diamondbacks for Qualls last July - rather than moving Ramos for Capps - and then re-signed him for a one-year deal this past off-season. Obviously this would have been a hit for last season's stretch-run (but by no means would have kept the team out of the playoffs.) However, it would have left us with more depth at the catcher position - a key weakness during Mauer's prolonged absence this season - as well as nearly $6 million in payroll we could have spent in the off-season, either to keep someone like JJ Hardy or Jon Rauch, or put to other good uses.
To be honest, my goal here wasn't to rehash the most talked about prospect-for-reliever swap in Twins history. In fact, as I noted before, Smith went out and got the better pitcher last season, and had it paid dividends in the playoffs, there would have been no second-guessing. And, to be fair, there is no telling the amount of derision Bill Smith would have experienced last summers had his big deadline move been to acquire a seemingly washed-up Diamondbacks reliever. It also sounds like the Twins at least kicked the tires on Qualls this off-season, weeks before signing Capps to his $7.15 million deal.
But the difference in the price paid for Capps and Qualls had bugged me since last July, and the success of both Qualls and Wilson Ramos this season has made that difference seem even larger (in just the first couple months of the season, Ramos has already been worth nearly two wins more than Drew Butera). It's been said many times since the Capps-Ramos trade that Bill Smith overpaid for back-of-the-baseball-card stats like saves and ERA. I think that's a perfectly fair analysis, and I think it stands in stark contrast to the type of outside-the-box thinking needed for a team to target a 32-year-old reliever with a an 8.00+ ERA like Chad Qualls in 2010.
Targeting a player like Qualls last July would have been a gutsy move for Smith, to be sure. But from where we're sitting right now, it appears to be a move that would have paid big dividends for the organization.
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Bill Smith The Baseball Accountant
My feeling is Bill Smith had a money first mindset about the trade.
Once he crunched the numbers, looked at Beer Sales, Ticket Sales and T-Shirt sales, he decided he could afford Capps. Then he used his complicated spreadsheets to run the money numbers again. Then he decided he could sign Capps in 2011 if he dumped expensive people like Crain, Hardy and Geurrier.
Only after he did that did he think of who he was to trade. He then convinced himself that Ramos would have a problem staying healthy so any investment in Ramos might be a Risk.
My memory says that there was talk a lot of FO people did not want this trade because they dreamed of a Maurer, Morneau, Ramos Triangle rotating between Catcher, DH and First Base. Wish he would have listend to those guys.
I think that was Rob Antony
who was spitballing that idea for the Mauer-Morneau-Ramos triumverate. It might have been one of my interviews, but I can’t remember. I’ll have to look.
I Think it is time
To name Rob Antony as the GM for the Twins.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
It's a completely separate event,
but in terms of finding a reliever who was potentially under-valued Smith did get Brian Fuentes for pennies on the dollar.
This certainly doesn’t make the Ramos-Capps trade any easier to swallow, but it is interesting.
I wonder
If Smith had known how cheap he would get Fuentes would he have skipped getting Capps altogether?
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
That is a great question
Rauch didn’t have any ego about being “the closer”, so they could’ve gone with a Rauch/Fuentes platoon closer situation that would’ve probably been much better than even Capps was.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
20/20 hindsight taken to the extreme
I didn’t like the Capps/Ramos trade from day 1 either, but this comparison is pretty far-fetched. The Rays gave up on Qualls, too. Heck, we could have signed Qualls in the offseason without giving up anybody. That was the big problem with our offseason… we didn’t find good castoffs for our bullpen like we usually do.
Amen
We were not comfortable with Rauch closing. Capps did pretty well in that last year. If you really think the Twins or anyone else would have thought that Qualls was a person you would get to close the door, then I am not sure what to say. You can not like how it has turned out, but Qualls was not even in the realm of possibility as an option opposed to Capps last year. Like you said, Capps was on his way to a 40+ save year with pretty good peripherals and Qualls had an ERA of over 8 at the time.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
The problem
Like you said, Capps was on his way to a 40+ save year with pretty good peripherals and Qualls had an ERA of over 8 at the time.
My emphasis added. The problem is that the Twins appear to have focused on the saves and ERA and not given a second thought to the peripherals, which were not nearly as different.
I agree that trading for Qualls would’ve been seen as a very weak deadline move, and it would’ve been panned by the fans and media. That doesn’t make the Capps trade any better, but that trade did make more of a splash, which I think is part of what the Twins were going for – “Look, we got a Closer™!”
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
My emphasis added. The problem is that the Twins appear to have focused on the saves and ERA and not given a second thought to the peripherals, which were not nearly as different.
I assume that is just your opinion on the Twins FO.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
I guess I just disagree with that blanket assesment that the FO only looks at the surface and bases all decisions on suface stats.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
Nobody's calling it a blanket assessment.
But it’s common knowledge that the Twins are more old-school when it comes to evaluation of talent. It doesn’t mean the FO “only looks at the surface and bases all decisions on surface stats”, but it does mean they place more value on those stats that other organizations, and they certainly place more value on those stats than a majority of the fanbase here at TT.
Not stats
Who would have had the better advance scouting reports at the time – Capps or Qualls?
Based on what we know
I am guessing that Matt Capps had the better numbers at the time.
Also, I am not that sure that we would have panned any trade for Chad Qualls. At the time, Arizona had a horrible year and I am sure that Qualls was being used as a fireman, plus Arizona had trouble scoring runs.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Actually...
I think they base their decision-making on a combination of “surface stats” and scouts’ observations, but I also believe that they don’t give nearly as much attention to peripheral statistics and advanced analytics as most of us in the blogosphere would like.
It was pretty well-established when the Capps trade was made that the Twins were going after “a proven closer”, and if you don’t think that’s code for “a guy who has recorded a lot of saves”, we have a pretty fundamental disconnect in our understanding of the Twins’ front office.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
I'll take the critcism
In fact, I acknowledge in the article that Smith got the better pitcher, and had it paid dividends in the post-season, my angst last July would have looked pretty ridiculous.
But we’re talking about a pretty good pen at the time – Rauch, Guerrier, Crain, etc. Qualls went on to post a respectable 3.77 xFIP in his time with the Rays. A Rauch, Guerrier, Crain, Qualls led pen would have still been awfully good, albeit a step down from the Capps-led version. Then, of course, when you figure in the cost of Ramos (along with Qualls performance this season) I think it’s fair to look back and ask…"what if…?"
The criticism doesn't make any sense.
It’s apples to apples.
The assumption is Capps was and is slightly better. But at the same time:
Twins paid: a top prospect
Rays paid: PTBNL
Pretty straightforward here.
That's just the thing
had it paid dividends in the post-season, my angst last July would have looked
We’ve been complaining for years that the Twins needed to make more win now moves. It’s proven that a good bullpen can be the key to success in the post season, especially if your team lacks truly dominant starting pitching, which our team did. It had good starters but no one who you expected to go throw 8 or 9 scoreless innings. However you’re right, this was an overpay and it was obvious to many even at the time of the trade. I’m all for the Twins making a few more win now moves (well not this year), but they need to be a bit smarter. Had we given up Ramos for Cliff Lee or hell even Heath Bell it might have made sense, but for Capps it was just a bit too much.
When you combine the cost in prospects and dollars it was just too much.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Not to be a site-homer,
but I think it’s a pretty insightful look back. Because even if the Twins didn’t re-sign Qualls after theoretically acquiring him last fall, then the Twins would still A) have had Ramos and B) had money to either keep Hardy or spend on additional bullpen help.
The idea is that each trade should be an exercise in how you value assets. If Smith had valued stats other than saves and ERA, something else may have happened here—including going after Qualls.
OK... my comment was a bit too critical
But the Ramos-Capps trade is re-lived with high emo in every game thread where Capps appears and isn’t lights out (which is most of his appearances :-)). Yes, yes, you can usually pick up a below-average reliever for less than a blue-chip catching prospect. We all knew we gave up way too much for Capps at the time.
These things are like investment portfolios, there’s always a better move that you could have made. It certainly makes sense to how much less you could have reasonably given up for Capps or how much more you could have gotten for Ramos so that we don’t make similar mistakes in the future. But comparing the trade to some random free-agent signing by the Padres in the offseason seems like its just trying to maximize the emo of the trade.
Not how it was meant
You’re free to be as critical as you want – in all honesty, I never meant for us to rehash the same debate we’ve had dozens of times over this trade. But the Capps-Qualls comparison struck me the day the two trades were finalized, and, seeing how well both Qualls and Ramos are playing, I felt compelled to write about it. Really, this was meant more as a game of “what if…?” based on my initial reaction to the trade last July. As I noted, Smith would have been crucified if Chad Qualls was his deadline deal last year- it’s hard to fault him for reaching for the splashier piece. It’s just looking like a really foolish move on June 8, 2011.
Type B
I would assume that Andy Friedman was aware of it when he got Qualls, but the fact that he was a type B free agent is another factor in this discussion. The PTNL that they gave up was replaced with a draft pick (they took HS OF James Harris). Just another example of how amazing Friedman does with such little resources.
They had to offer arb
and he had to decline. Obviously they had some sort of gentlemen’s agreement and it worked out for the Rays, but at the time of the trade the draft pick wasn’t a sure thing.
Bill Smith and Peripherals
While the Capps trade showed how little Bill Smith & Co might undervalue advanced peripherals, you can also look at the Pavano trade and show how they ‘correctly’ value them. Pavano at the time he was acquired had a terrible ERA (north of 5, maybe 6) but was pitching much better than that. I don’t have the numbers at the deal, but I remember he had the biggest gap between ERA and xFIP in the majors.
Not really sure where I’m going with this, just throwing out a differing example to muddle the picture on Bill Smith a little regarding these peripherals.
This was a different scenario as well.
That trade wasn’t about peripherals at all. It was about finding a starter, any starter, who could contribute more than what at the time was a pretty banged up and terrible rotation.
They did pass on Washburn
who was having the better year ERA-wise.
Fair play.
But man, they made eyes at him for what…two years? I can’t express how worried I was, and subsequently how happy I was, that nothing happened there.
They almost got him
but the M’s old GM wanted a quality player (Span?) in return for dumping Washburn and his contract on the Twins.
Washburn for Span
Sounds pretty similar to Capps for Ramos
When the trade happened I was quickly excited but then after thinking aobut it, I had a feeling we weren’t getting the better deal. What made me even more mad was the fact that we had to give up ANOTHER player to get Capps…and not just Ramos.
But when you look back at it, Ramos was having a slow start to the year as well so his value was slightly less. And Capps did help us out tremendously down the stretch last year. Maybe we wouldn’t have made the play-offs if we didn’t have him???
Who knows!
Capps and Rauch are almost the exact same player
That’s what really bugs me about the trade. They already had a cheaper version of Capps in the house. I’m not saying they should have gone after Qualls, but they didn’t have to overpay for a “closer” either.
The Twins have made several questionable trades over the past few years and all of them have one thing in common: they inexplicably undervalue one of their own players.
Rauch was wearing down
Rauch was a good closer for the first half but he was consistently blowing more saves as the season wore on. He needed to be replaced, so who else inhouse do you choose Crainwreck or maybe Guerrier who also wore down in the second half?
Capps was a good choice, but desperation got the better of B.S.
Trying to look at the bright side
First, we had no idea Mauer was going to come up lame this year, so you can’t blame that on Bill Smith.
Second, Ramos had a distinct air of pissed off baby to him because it was clear at the time that he was going to be a backup catcher, and he felt he deserved to be the starter. He was right, but he was also under contract.
Third, Matt Capps is actually a very good, mostly durable reliever, and his upside appears bright.
Yes, looking back it’s clear that the Twins should have kept Ramos, whether or not they needed another pitcher. It was a big boo-boo, but we did get value for Ramos, who is now quite happy in Washington, and Capps is quite happy here.
Regardless of this sad outcome, I would still start Rene Rivera and put Joe Mauer in left field.
Had no Idea Joe Mauer was going to come up Lame?
Where did you come up with that excuse? Joe Mauer has an impressive injury history. For example, he missed most of his rookie season with the Twins. Then he missed the first month of the 2009 season due to back problems and he missed time in 2010 because he came up lame on the basepaths.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
That's hardly an "excuse"
Though I do love to see my definition of excuse – “any reason I don’t like” – in action.
The Twins had no reason to believe Mauer would miss the first three months of the season (at least) after having fairly routine knee surgery.
Should they be aware he’s missed big blocks of time in the past? Yes. Were those “breaking down” injuries? No.
Mauer’s past history was grounds to get a good, solid “back up” catcher – one who would come to the club knowing his role and be satisfied in the same. In short, “Mike Redmond v. 2011.”
From everything I’ve read, that isn’t Ramos. We could have forced him to do it, and it might have worked out – or not.
They knew he had knee surgery
It should have been in the plans that he would miss some time
just curious
Do folks generally complain about Bill Smith as shorthand for the entire Twins front office? The Twins seems to have a pretty ingrained way of doing things. I don’t think changing general managers would make much of a difference as they’d likely promote from within as they have in the past.
Good question
Problem with replacing BS is that you have to trust the judgement of the Polads to pick the right guy and not to handcuff them.
While I’m not a BS hater, don’t love him either. He has been adequate GM who seems to have spent his entire tenure just trying to maintain the winning major league team he inherited, with no real vision for the teams future. Hence the minor league teams have been raped and pillaged.
So the question I ask is now that the Twins are in last place and the whole organization needs a direction can BS be the man or do we pray the right replacement will be found?
Does anyone remember when we knew Mauer was going to need offseason knee surgery?
That seems like an important question.
In addition, I think it’s a mistake to lump together the decision to trade Ramos for Capps and the decision to pay $7m to keep Capps this year. The former might have been justifiable as a win-now sort of move, though I don’t see it – from my point of view the bullpen had a couple weeks of bad luck and the front office drastically overreacted – but the latter was an inexcusable mistake.
The second move was implied when the first move was made
As soon as the Twins traded for Capps, it was pretty much a certainty that they’d offer him arbitration unless his arm fell off or something. Ramos was pretty highly regarded as a valuable trade chip, and the team couldn’t make it look like they gave him away for a half-season of Capps.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
So instead they gave him away for something worth less than a half-season of Capps.
This is the sort of Twins pseudologic that drives us all nuts.
At 2:31 EDT in Cleveland...how do we like the trade now?
…I hated it at the time because I am of the opinion that Ramos is a future star. Didn’t like it after seeing him pitch the last few months of last year. Didn’t like it this winter when Bill Smith gave him +$7mm, which he had to do or look bad for having made the trade. And don’t like it this year when I see him pitch and see any one of several catchers come to the plate and try to bat. I guess that sums up my feelings.
In retrospect, it is not looking like a great deal. At all.
I liked it at the time since I was not comfortable with Rauch closing and last year Capps did well for us. Plus, the FO fears about Nathan were well founded sadly. Capps has certainly not duplicated his results this year as last though, and that 7 million looks pretty poorly spent at this point. Still do not think the team liked Hardy anyways and dropping Capps would not have saved him, but it could have bought a better bullpen.
I still disagree with the assesment that Ramos is a future star though. Good player sure, but sometimes you have to trade good players when you are trying to win. Not looking good right now.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
Bah
Matt Capps knows how to win ballgames – that’s more than you could say for Carl Pavano today.
It turns out that the secret to winning ballgames is to do everything in your power to come close to losing without actually losing.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
I cant fault Bill Smith for trying to make a win now trade
I can fault him for overpaying for in trade value and then resigning Capps to make a bullpen that had nearly 20 million dollars wrapped up in 2 relievers and the rest of the guys at or near the major league minimum.
I think at the time they traded for Capps the front office was in full out playoff win mode riding the opening of target field and another playoff disappointment in 09 . The fan base was clamoring for a game changing trade first they tried Cliff Lee they dangled their most expendable trade chip with value and Seattle didnt go for it, so instead they focused on the bullpen since they had lost their safety net of having an elite closer like Nathan and they didnt trust a struggling Rauch to close playoff games they went after a closer.
Heath Bell was the big closer supposedly on the market San Diego was making an unlikely run and he would have had to be severely overpaid for. So having lost out on the 2 main target arms they went into panic mode and saw a “proven” closer in Capps and when Ramos name came up in talks they undervalued him because he was having a bad season, had dealt with injuries, Seattle had scoffed at him, and they had Mauer en trenched at catcher, and over valued the elite closer thing since they keep themselves stuck in the stone age of scouting. Bam done deal under valued prospect with “no future with the club” for over valued role and player.
The real punch line to the whole thing was then they went out and got rid of Jose Morales for a bag of balls making Drew Butera the saftey net to Joe Mauer should the 6’4 tall 220+ pound catcher with an extensive injury history ever happen to get hurt again.
I think we should give him the Neshek treatment and just DFA him without giving him another chance to do this GM thing when there is an incoming fire sale.
Free Carlos Guiterrez! Free Chuck James!, Free Anthony Slama!
+1,000,000
The Twins really are in the stone age of scouting. These trades just expose just far behind the curve we are. The tremendous market inefficiencies in talent evaluation have been exposed, and if the Twins org doesn’t get with the program we will continually be taken advantage of.
Another bit of irony with this trade. Ranch was our best reliever against the Skanks in the playoffs.
FREE AIRWOLF!
ROHLFING!!!!!
by d-mac on Jun 8, 2011 4:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The story isn't over .....
It’s unlikely Capps finishes the year with the Twins – someone is going to want a “closer” at the trading deadline.
In return for Ramos, we’re going to get a full year of Capps (stretch 2010 + 1st half of 2011) plus whatever he draws in trade at the 2011 deadline.

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