Bill Smith is fighting a losing WAR
After last night's incredible comeback victory against the reigning AL champs, the Minnesota Twins improved to 48-55, but remain seven games behind the division-leading Detroit Tigers. With just 59 games left on the season, the Twins playoff hopes are dim - they not only need to make up a seven game deficit, but they also need to leapfrog three other teams to win the division.
The Twins' disappointing season is the result of many factors, which not only includes a dizzying array of injuries, but some hugely disappointing performances from players that were coming off outstanding 2010 performances. In fact, it's a testament to the mediocrity of the AL Central that the Twins can even be thought of as contenders at this point, considering how little production we've received from established players like Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Francisco Liriano, Matt Capps, Delmon Young, and others.
That's what makes the following chart so frustrating (after the jump):
|
C |
SP |
|||
|
Wilson Ramos |
1.7 |
Scott Baker |
2.3 |
|
|
Joe Mauer |
0.5 |
|
Carl Pavano |
1.6 |
|
Drew Butera |
-0.2 |
Brian Duensing |
1.6 |
|
|
Rene Rivera |
0 |
Francisco Liriano |
0.9 |
|
|
Jose Morales |
0 |
Nick Blackburn |
0.7 |
|
|
Anthony Swarzak |
0.3 |
|||
|
IF |
||||
|
J.J. Hardy |
2.1 |
|
RP |
|
|
Nick Punto |
1.3 |
Glen Perkins |
1.4 |
|
|
Alexi Casilla |
1.2 |
Jesse Crain |
0.7 |
|
|
Orlando Hudson |
0.9 |
Matt Guerrier |
0.2 |
|
|
Danny Valencia |
0.8 |
|
Brian Fuentes |
0.1 |
|
Trevor Plouffe |
-0.1 |
Alex Burnett |
0.1 |
|
|
Justin Morneau |
-0.3 |
Jon Rauch |
-0.1 |
|
|
Matt Tolbert |
-0.4 |
Jose Mijares |
-0.1 |
|
|
Tsuyoshi Nishioka |
-0.6 |
Joe Nathan |
-0.2 |
|
|
Phil Dumatrait |
-0.4 |
|||
|
|
Pat Neshek |
-0.5 |
||
|
OF/DH |
Matt Capps |
-0.6 |
||
|
Denard Span |
2.6 |
|
||
|
Michael Cuddyer |
2.4 |
|||
|
Jason Kubel |
1.2 |
|
||
|
Ben Revere |
0.9 |
|||
|
Delmon Young |
0.6 |
|||
|
Jason Repko |
0.4 |
|
||
|
Jim Thome |
0.2 |
|||
|
Rene Tosoni |
-0.8 |
|||
What you see hear is a list of every Twins player this season with at least 50 PAs or 20 IP, ranked in order of their 2011 WAR (the number of Wins they've been worth Above a Replacement-level player at their position). The players in bold, as you've probably already guessed, are players that left the team between last year's trade deadline and this past off-season.
It's not a pretty picture.
- Right now, J.J. Hardy and Wilson Ramos have accumulated more WAR this season than all but three current Twins.
- The three infielders the Twins lost in the off-season - Hardy, Orlando Hudson, and Nick Punto - have been worth a total of 4.3 wins above replacement. At the same time, our entire opening day infield - Justin Morneau, Alexi Casilla, Tsuyoshi Nishioka, and Danny Valencia - have combined for just 1.1 WAR.
- The Twins currently have just two relievers who have posted a positive WAR (three if you count Swarzak, who has pitched more innings as a starter this season). Three of the four relievers they let walk this off-season have posted a positive WAR.
Looking at the moves Bill Smith and front office have made over the past year, it's clear they left several wins on the table. Simply using some back-of-the-napkin math, it's pretty easy to see how this team could be two or three wins better just by changing how we addressed the middle infield and bullpen. Reverse the Matt Capps trade and give Drew Butera's plate appearances to Wilson Ramos, and you could even put together four or five extra wins.
Now let me acknowledge the obvious - it's a whole lot easier to manage a roster with the advantage of 20/20 hindsight. I didn't throw this chart together to call for Bill Smith's head, or to bash the front office for failing to see that Hardy was about to find the power he seemingly lost more than two years ago. The Twins faced a severe payroll crunch during the past off-season, and had to make some very unpleasant decisions.
But here we stand, in a season that has felt cursed from the start, sitting either on the bubble or just outside the bubble of playoff contention (depending on your level of optimism, I guess). And seeing just how...winnable...this division is right now makes it harder to stomach just how many 2011 wins the Twins lost in the past year.
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Oh Wait
Didn’t Gardy say that hudson and hardy were too SLOW and that he needed more SPEED??? But no, we have to give my boy alexi the starting job cause he’s FAST. Oh and Ben Revere? He can’t get sent down when Span comes back, he’s too FAST.
Same with Ramos for Capps
Or pretty much any trade where you give up an everyday player for a relief pitcher.
Especially a prearb everyday player for a year and a half of a reliever
if it was the other way around, it could be closer.
The WAR/$ comparison of that trade looks terrible now. It’s going to look even worse in a few years.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Jul 27, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Jeebus
Stop making me angry by having to think about Hardy trade AND the Ramos trade. I can only handle one-or-the-other on Wednesdays. Not both.
Just wait until next week
Then we can be mad about the return they got for Slowey
The real question
How many balls will be in the bag we get for Slowey?
by AM. on Jul 27, 2011 1:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yep, and the capps trade.
I didn’t like it at the time, and I didn’t realize how expensive he’d be this year. If I knew all the financials, I would have hated it even more.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Jul 27, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I am tired of the JJ Hardy love
The Brewers gave him up for peanuts. We gave him up for peanuts. Therefor his value is peanuts. Time to get over it.
Gardy’s “get faster” and the FO’s “cost to much” were both weak attempts to cover the true reason he was being jettisoned.
What the Twins need is a better PR person, so they can blow sunshine up there and make us all warm inside.
by I_was_here on Jul 27, 2011 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
the logic here is baffling
you shouldn’t complain about giving him up for peanuts, because if we gave him up for peanuts, he must be worth peanuts.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Jul 27, 2011 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Gomez was a young, cheap centerfielder who still had potential at the time
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Jul 27, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
More importantly
Gomez is what the Brewers ASKED for.
True
But we needed Bullpen, so that is what he got
you can get bullpen guys all over the place
look at Glen Perkins. Failed starter, now one of the better LH relievers in the league this year.
Hoey also has alot of potential
the guy is a hard throwing reliever if only he could learn control
Control is a skill
It comes from repeatable muscle movement. It is just as much a skill as the ability to throw hard. You don’t trade a known commodity for a project if you want to contend.
Did they really expect to contend?
Of course, they won’t say they don’t expect to content. But a lot of things had to fall into place for this year to work, like Nathan coming back ahead of schedule and Morneau coming back. And, really, nothing fell into place—not even the things the most pessimistic among us expected fall into place, like having a solid regular center fielder for most of the year.
After the Hardy trade, it was my estimation that they were really playing for 2012 and hoping for 2011. In that case, it makes sense to get a couple of projects for a future bullpen role. I have to believe they tried to get more for him (why wouldn’t they?). This is the best they could do, given his salary and recent injury history.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
They were wrong
This team is a decent bullpen, a good SS and a real backup catcher away from winning the division.
They didn't have the money for those things
They used Hardy’s money to sign Pavano. With Nathan and Capps, they didn’t have the luxury of getting better bullpen arms.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
DON'T SIGN MATT CAPPS!
That gives them the money for a shortstop. It wasn’t Hardy v. Pavano, it was Hardy v. Capps.
They dealt away a decent backup catcher in Morales.
Oh, I agree
But BS wanted Capps for Nathan insurance, rather than, say, Crain. The reason was, he gave up too much for Capps as a half-season rental, so he felt compelled to keep him no matter what the cost (and all the related decisions).
I also agree on Morales. Butera is not a major league catcher. I hope they acquire one before next season.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I think they absolutely expected to contend
They won the division going away last year, and they had Morneau coming back, Nathan coming back, and the middle infielders replaced with what they thought were only slight downgrades.
The biggest indication to me that they expected to contend was that they re-signed Thome and Pavano. If they don’t think they’re contenders, there’s no reason to sign Pavano – better to just let the five young guys have their shots and give tryouts to Swarzak/Manship types if you have injuries. Thome has additional value as a popular player who may draw fans to the stadium, but again, his presence blocks the team from getting better looks at guys like Plouffe, Revere, and Hughes – if you’re not planning to contend, you want the young guys to get a shot.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Jul 27, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rebuilding
They went with a youth movement up the middle. A sign they are transitioning the team.
While signing a closer is typically a sign they want to compete, I have to believe it was mostly an insurance policy not just in case Nathan didn’t in 2011 but if he never closed again.
you're missing it ...
Based on his play in Milwaukee, Milwaukee thought he was worth “peanuts.”
As for us – if we knew what he was going to do this year, then we wouldn’t have thought he was worth “peanuts.” But we didn’t, did we?
IMO, it’s not so much we let Hardy go as it is our rolling snake eyes (more or less) with the guys we put out there in his (and Hudson’s) place.
No.
What the Twins need is a better PR person, so they can blow sunshine up there and make us all warm inside.
No – holding onto affordable, established major league starters that play premium positions with average or above defense and offense would be good enough. Don’t need PR magic for that to look good.
"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series
by WindyCityTwinsFan on Jul 27, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Gardy actually believes the "get faster" stuff
Gardenhire absolutely believes you need fast middle infielders. This has been true for his entire managing career. Apparently he didn’t get the memo that Astroturf has gone the way of the complete game and 10 man pitching staffs. This is probably his biggest weakness as a manager.
Compelling
The Brewers gave him up for peanuts. We gave him up for peanuts. Therefor his value is peanuts. Time to get over it.
Okay. Using the same logic, I would now like to buy Manhattan for an assortment of beads.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Remember the AJ trade
We gave up AJ for Liriano, Nathan, and Bonser. Does the value always compute equally in your mind then? We got a great deal for a quality shortstop. Yes we gave him up for what we bought him for. How much would he be worth though today to trade? His value is not peanuts.
"We’re all in this boat together. Everybody grab an oar."
-Tom Kelly
It is easier to construct a lineup in hindsight
But I think plenty of people could see how the Ramos and Hardy trades were going to end up going down.
Yeah
I don’t think people foresaw Capps completely melting down like this but it was pretty obvious Ramos was worth more. As for Hardy, I’m not sure I saw anyone who thought that was a good trade for us.
by Hattaway'smoustache on Jul 27, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Capps was never more statistically
than an Average reliever in high-leverage situations (Career avg 83%, League Avg 85%). We overpaid to get him, and we significantly overpaid to keep him. When his performance in 10 was almost exactly in-line with his career (the league average). Paying his excessively goes to the preoccupation of management types with the idea of a ‘closer’ and the save stat in general.
And he’s always been a fly-ball oriented, contact pitcher, so the potential for blowing up was always there.
by Shawn Gillogly on Jul 27, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
not to mention...
we got a BETTER reliever than Capps (Fuentes) two weeks after that trade, for basically nothing; a minor league “older” reliever who passed through waivers in Van Mil.
Yes
Capps was a panic move. A bit of patience and we would have had Fuentes to close.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Definitely frustrating
I mean, Hardy had to be a salary dump, which means that the players we are paying premium money for must be counted on to produce. We could get away with negative contributions from SS and other spots if Mauer and Morneau and others were living up to their contracts. So I have a hard time placing all the blame on the front office here.
As bad as it looks now, the Hardy trade was not in a vacuum. If that trades doesn't go down, we likely do not resign Pavano or Thome.
Thome has sadly been hurt all year and Pavano has been hot and cold. Still not a great trade by any strech of the imagination, but it is not like the trade was made solely to get a couple of bullpen arms.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
this too
Also it was so we could retain Capps, who was kept and acquired because of the Nathan injury. Now that we know Nathan’s OK, we’ll pick up his option and won’t overpay for another “closer.”
by matswilander on Jul 27, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Picking up Nathan's option IS overpaying for another "closer"
I know, we’re scared to death of the bullpen, but Nathan’s option is $12.5M (with a $2M buyout). I have a very hard time believing that Nathan is worth $10.5M next year.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
I really believe they will negotiate new contract with Nathan...
…something like two years at $16-$18mm, with an option year beyond that
I'd be okay with that
Let’s face it, with only Perkins (and if you want to buy into shuffling rotations: Duensing) really set as trusted relievers, we might want to pay a small premium for a known commodity in Nathan.
by twinscrazy_german on Jul 27, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Proven?
Joe Nathan is about to turn 37 and has a 4.88 ERA with his lowest strikeout rate ever. He’s looked good in July but that’s all of 10 innings. I am completely comfortable declining his option and using that money to sign 3 relievers from the free agent market, one of which could be Joe Nathan. If they can negotiate a 2 year $10M extension and save themselves the buyout that might make sense.
He's also coming off TJ surgery
And has consistently improved as the year went on.
by SaintAugustine on Jul 27, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I am not talking about picking up his option
But rather sign him like roger has suggested.
We all know that you can’t just look at his overall performance for this season to evaluate how he might fair next year
by twinscrazy_german on Jul 27, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
But one blown save for Joe Nathan
Is like 10 blown saves for Matt Capps.
Look, Joe Nathan is healthy and I rather pick up his option rather than see him leave for Philadelphia via free agency and deal with an umproven in Glen Perkins. Yes I know he has pitched well this season, but there is a chance that he might regress in 2012.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
And this chance doesn't exist for Nathan
I want both of them in the bullpen next year
by twinscrazy_german on Jul 27, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Nathan's ERA last 10 is 0.96
Which you’ve noted.
He’s picked up 3-4 MPH on the fastball, which has transformed him from “getting whacked around” to “effective.”
While I like having Joe around, I’m not crazy about the option price – we could get at least one very effective free agent for that kind of money.
but they don't have to overpay for two at the same time
that’s my point
by matswilander on Jul 27, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
To me, it was always Capps vs. Hardy
Smith chose the Reliever over the shortstop.
"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"
by Steven Ellingson on Jul 27, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably Smith and Gardy on that one. Early in the season, when Nathan was awful and Capps was, well, not awful, it did not look like such a bad call. Now however? Yeesh.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
beyond this year
Maybe they also wanted to accelerate the process of finding long-term solutions in the MI, under the presumption that they did not want to pay what the market would likely bear for Hardy beyond this season.
Not that i agree with that decision, I would have kept Hardy and signed him long-term, but if Nishioka/Casilla/Plouffe are better next year because of this decision, maybe Twins fans will stop pining for Hardy.
by matswilander on Jul 27, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
He might
If the Twins trade him at the deadline. I liked the Slowey / Plouffe / Revere for Ubaldo suggested trade.
If that was all it took, he would have been a Twin last week....
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
True enough
Slowey / Plouffe / Arcia might be worth it.
I don't see the Twins springing for Ubaldo
Everyone is frustrated with Liriano’s lack of control but over their careers Ubaldo has a higher walk rate a lower K per 9 rate than Liriano.
I don’t think the Twins want a pitcher that has averaged almost 4 walks per 9 over his career.
by SaintAugustine on Jul 27, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Most teams take chances on guys who have proved that they can dominate in the past. Doesn't alwasys work out, but pitchers capable of being an ace are in short supply on the open market.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
Not entirely
If you factor in Nishiokas 5 mil a year price, Hardy is only making slightly more. And btw, if nishioka doesn’t get benched within the next week, Gardy is insane.
by ScottyD4Life on Jul 27, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions
He was more a replacement for Hudson's money.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
I'll forgive the Nishi decision
Because a broken leg 3 games into your career isn’t the ideal way to start.
But there was never any reason to let BOTH Hardy and Hudson go. And Gardy spent all offseason shilling Lexi as an everyday shortstop, even though he’d never been competent there before.
by Shawn Gillogly on Jul 27, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Thome has predictably been hurt all year
Last year was the outlier. Thome has trouble staying on the field. He’s old.
re: relievers
They bungled the draft choice compensation decisions, too. Of the three possibilities — getting them for one year at market rate, losing them but getting a draft pick, or losing them for nothing — we chose option three for almost all of them. The only downside of offering arbitration and getting a pick being the risk of option one, which would have been preferable anyway, considering the replacements.
yep...
the twins have a lot to learn in the dept. of compensation picks for FA’s. They should take a cue from Boston, Tampa, and Toronto, probably the 3 best teams at doing so.
they essentially lost out on 4 draft picks this offseason by bungling that, in a great draft.
Rauch; was clear he didn’t want to be here, and wanted a multi-year deal. he was going to decline. Type B-1 pick.
Fuentes; was clear he wanted a multi-year deal and wanted at least a shot at closing. He was going to decline. Type B-1 pick.
Guerrier; Even as a Type A, was clear he was going to get a multi-year deal from someone. Type A-2 picks.
Those 4 picks, especially in this draft, carried a lot of value. And the Twins messed up bigtime.
Hopefully they don’t do it this offseason again with Cuddy/Kubel.
This
I was furious when they didn’t offer those guys arbitration, especially Guerrier, who was highly coveted.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
There was no downside offering to Guerrier and Rauch
Worst case they get an effective reliever at a fair price. There was the possibility Fuentes would accept arb and make $10M.
The downside from Bill Smith's perspective
If those guys accept, he no longer has the money to afford Matt Capps.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Hardy and Camden Yards
How many of Hardy’s homers in Camden Yards would fall short in Target State Park? It seemed like he hit a lot of long flyouts last year.
Does anyone have any ballpark-neutral stats for Hardy?
a lot of them are just made it type of homers
but it’s important to remember 1. that he would also be hitting in the AL central and 2. not all of his at-bats would be at Target Field

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