Are the Twins buyers or sellers? We’re about to find out
When you're a fan of a team having a bad season, you spend July contemplating which players your team will shed at the trade deadline, and which organizational needs your team should be trying to fill.
When you're a fan of a playoff-contending team, you spend July praying your team's GM will pull the trigger on a blockbuster trade that will not only propel you into the playoffs, but carry you through October as well.
So what the heck do you do when you're a fan of team like the 2011 Minnesota Twins, enduring a roller coaster season that has seen the team bottom out on June 1 (17-37, 16.5 games back), then rebound with 5- and 8-game win streaks to pull within 6.5 games of first on June 21, just to drop the next six games to fall 10 back on June 27?
As it stands, the team is now one blown save away from a seven-game win streak, and enter today's series finale against the Rays seven games behind the first place Indians, 5.5 games behind the second-place Tigers, and 3.5 games behind those pesky Pale Hose.
Given the wild swings we've witnessed this year, it's no wonder why we've spent so much time debating and speculating what the Twins should/will do leading up until the trade deadline. This season has been equal parts frustrating and confusing; every time we, as fans, have decided to get out, another win streak has pulled us right back in.
As tough as it has been to stomach the ups and downs of this season as a fan, it's had to be absolutely gut-wrenching for the Twins front office, knowing they will have to make some pretty major decisions before the July 31 trade deadline. With several key contributors about to enter free agency, Bill Smith will soon have to decide whether to risk losing players like Michael Cuddyer and Jason Kubel for future draft picks, or whether to turn them into known prospects from teams looking to acquire talent for the stretch run.
Fortunately, the team's schedule may help make the decision for Smith. After wrapping up their series with Tampa Bay, the Twins will begin a stretch of 16 straight games against AL Central opponents. They'll play four on the road in Chicago, take a few days off for the All-Star Break, then return home for 4-game sets against the Royals, the Indians, and the Tigers.
The Twins will end July 24 having just spent three weeks playing each of their division rivals, and having just wrapped up four-game sets against the two teams currently sitting atop the Central. In effect, Bill Smith could hold tight through this entire post-All Star Break homestand before deciding whether to load up, sell off, or stand pat, and still have a full week before the deadline to make his move.
I don't think it's a stretch to say we've entered a potentially make-or-break part of the season. That is, if it's still possible to "make" the season.
Let's be clear: it would be a remarkable accomplishment for the Twins to make up substantial ground in the next few weeks. As you can see below, neither the Indians nor Tigers face particularly difficult schedules this month, and the White Sox will essentially play a carbon-copy of our schedule.
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Add in the fact that we're still seven games out of first and would have to jump three teams that have each played better than our squad for the first half of the season, and it starts to make sense why coolstandings.com says there is just a 2.5% chance of the Twins making the postseason in 2011.
That being said, we all know it's the head-to-head match-ups that present the best opportunity to make up ground. And in the next few weeks, we'll get four chances to chip away at each of the three teams ahead of us in the standings. If the Twins, incredibly, were able to take three of four from each of those four teams, we'd end the run a game above or below .500, and will have put a serious dent in the lead of whoever was still above us in the standings.
None of this is meant to sound overly optimistic. It's still fairly likely that we'll find ourselves 6 to 10 games out of first on July 25, a position that would leave Smith choosing between the ugly option of selling good players to better teams, or the worse option of standing pat and watching the season disappear without getting maximum value for our expiring contracts.
But this is a very winnable division, even for a snake-bitten team like ours. It's very possible 82-85 wins could take the division crown, and if the Twins are just a few games out of first by July 25, we could see Smith take a stab at the pot.
Whatever the result, the Twins are about to embark on a pretty important stretch of games. And, considering where we stood June 1, I'm just thankful we still have meaningful baseball to watch in July.
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If they're buyers,
they have to be marginal buyers. Pickups that costs something like Rauch, Pavano or Fuentes did will be fine. But no big moves, trading prospects with potential.
All this winning continues to put off their decision on whether they sell or not. There’s no reason they can’t wait until the last minute though, so if they do sell we may not actually see them make a move until the last day or two of July.
Buyers or Sellers
I don’t know, traditionally we have been a second half team. To be honest with you the only team that we might have a hard time leap-frogging is Detroit, because we own the rest of the rest of the division. I think we should buy small because despite everything that has happened this year I think we will be playing important games in Sept.
by Die Hard Twins Fan on Jul 6, 2011 9:52 AM EDT reply actions
If they can bring it in Chicago
they’ll hopefully get a lot of help from Span, Kubel, and (debatably) Delmon shortly after the break. I’m not sure what they’d want to buy after those guys come back. The rotation is fine, and Slowey can help the back end of the bullpen. Nishioka is the glaring weakness, but it’s too soon to give up on him. Even there, I’d be as happy with Plouffe as someone like Jamey Carroll.
Plouffe or Carroll would be upgrades, definitely.
Carroll shouldn’t be too expensive, either.
Once the Twins get healthy, if they want to upgrade the offense/defense it’ll have to be done on the bench. Carroll makes a lot of sense if they want to go external. Otherwise all I can imagine is maybe a bullpen arm or two through waivers in August?
Yeah
Seems like the Jon Rauch type of pickup would be the most likely. An average-ish arm on a fairly large contract for essentially nothing. I wonder if they have the payroll space for a move like that. Seems like Chuck James would be about as good as anyone they’re likely to get.
I wonder what it would take
to get Koji Uehara from the Orioles? He’s been fantastic. That would be an impact move.
He's a guy I'd have liked the Twins to target last winter.
Not that all my targets have performed well, but Uehara certainly has.
He'd be a good fit for the park, too
The extreme fly ball thing is a problem in Baltimore. Probably not so much in Petco North.
Selling and Buying
I think the Twins could actually do both. They have some redundancy on this roster from being forced to play AAA guys to fill in for the injuries. I think they can move some of the guys that won’t be back next year and fill their spots in-house and not loose anything. Specifically, I’m looking at Delmon Young and Jason Kubel. Obviously, both have to show their healthly. But keeping Revere in the everyday line-up would push out DY and having a rotational DH/1B of Thome, Hughes, Mauer, Cuddyer would alleviate the need for Kubel. Also, getting Morneau back early August would help incredibly. So, depending on what you get back for those rentals, you could go out and get a bullpen arm or two or a veteran middle infielder. Those moves in conjunction would not leverage the future nor throw away 2011. The marginal prospects exchanged in those deals would likely be a wash.
I think
the team needs Kubel’s bat if they’re serious about taking a shot. I agree that Revere brings at least as much to the table as Delmon , but I doubt they could give Delmon away at this point. Besides, he’s a marginal upgrade if he’s taking a spot from Repko or Tosoni.
Yes
Kubel is a much bigger loss than Delmon would be. But, I think you need to deal Delmon for sure to keep Gardy from running him out to LF every day. He’d be a marginal upgrade to Repko or Tosoni if he were properly placed on the bench, but since he’ll be starting LF, I’d say he’s a downgrade to a OF of Revere/Span/Cuddy.
I just don't think it's possible to deal Delmon
I suspect that if he were DFA’d no one would claim him.
It's Possible
If the trade is DY and 2 mil (or close to what he’s due the remainder of the year) for some throw in prospect, somebody takes that deal. That would be slightly better than DFA’ing him at least. The FO needs to realize what they have in DY is a terrible fielding, streak hitting, stubburn, slow-footed LF that doesn’t make the team better and is blocking a prospect that has shown far more value for a fraction of the cost. It’s time to move on – I don’t care what they gave up to get him, that’s a sunk cost.
Yeah, it's possible to get rid of him like that
but if it’s going to cost cash just to make him go away, I’d rather see them spend it on their favorite international prospect.
That cash is spent either way
If they keep him, they’re paying him that money anyway – the point of throwing cash into a deal is so the receiving team doesn’t have to pay all of his contract.
That said, I think Delmon’s trade value is so low, even when picking up some of his salary, that they’re probably better off keeping him around as a righthanded bench bat rather than give him away for AA roster filler.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Buy an overpaid middle reliever
I like trading Delmon Young and Dumatrait to the Phillies for Danys Baez, Ben Francisco and a C prospect. Baez and Francisco are just salary filler to even things out but they could both be more useful to the Twins in 2011 than Delmon. The Phillies are one of the few teams that might actually want Delmon for next season seeing how Raul Ibanez is coming off the books.
The Twins are in a position to take back an average middle reliever as salary relief and have it be an improvement to the back end of the bullpen.
I like that idea
The Phillies are supposedly interested in Cuddyer as a righthanded bat, so if the Twins can sell Delmon as not completely useless, he might be a good fit, especially to a rich team that can afford to offer him one more season of arbitration.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
I could see Delmon doing well in Philly
He could have his 2nd half surge at that ballpark and rack up some numbers. A key postseason home run and he would make arbitration look like a no-brainer.
We need somebody, anybody to replace Alex Burnett
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
We have a few options in AAA
I don’t get why we don’t give them a chance over the clearly struggling guys we have in the pen.
Maybe Seattle would take him
Their left field situation is a disaster, and they’re reasonably close to contention.
Smith has said over and over....
the best acquisition they can make is to get Kubel, Span, Morneau, Slowey and Young back. They’re going to stand pat and if anything moves it will be a small move. Don’t brace yourself for a blockbuster on either the buy or sell side.
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Jul 6, 2011 10:19 AM EDT reply actions
2 different deadlines
I suspect that the Twins hold pat for the non waver deadline or make some minor league moves. Its the waiver deadline where they will make there moves. I can see moving both Delmon and Capps through waivers. If both get hot they have some value, but to much baggage for just anyone to claim them.
Not much baggage or salary left for either
Just a couple million bucks for the remainder. They would both get claimed, the Twins could probably work out a deal.
What is the
Consensus on picking up Reyes? Id love for us to pick him up but what the cost be? Just hypothetically.
Would Hicks, Bromberg, Slowey, and another farm arm get it done?
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Jul 6, 2011 10:35 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think he's a FA next year
and I doubt the Twins would be able to sign him so I can’t see Reyes becoming a Twin.
Don't call it a come back! We've been winning for years!
Yep he is
But knowing that you’re getting Kubel, Morneau, Baker, Span and Delmon back and seeing that Nathan and Perkins are absolutely shutting down the back end of the bullpen are we in a position to say that if we out Jose in the two hole for 3 months that would be enough for a ring? Because I’d gladly take him as a rental for a ring.
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Jul 6, 2011 10:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If we knew we'd get a ring, yeah.
But for the risk, is losing a top flight prospect or two worth it? I don’t think the Twins are close enough, even if people get healthy.
Youre completely
Right but Jose has been my favorite player for the last 4 years and he’s finally putting it all together, I definitely have the Jo Jo glasses on.
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Jul 6, 2011 10:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Haha, can't blame you for that.
He’s definitely a dynamic player, would look good batting 2nd behind Span, and is a terror on the bases. He’d look good in a Twins uniform.
Its fun to dream
if we didn't pay Mauer guy all that money
Ponder to Harvin for 6!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Jul 6, 2011 11:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If we do Jose Reyes
It would be for a rental, and Gardy is addicted to speed this season.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
yup
if they could just give us the magical script with Bud’s sign off approving it.
Twins comeback from having the worst record in league to win the division on the last day of the season.
Twins sweep the Yankees in the first round getting the Yankee curse off their back.
Twins win a best of 7 over the Red Sox sending Red Sox nation into total chaos
Twins beat the Giants in 6 games giving me total bragging rights over everyone around me. :-)
Sure if we know the season plays out this way I’d be fine with the Twins giving up top prospects for Reyes
Don't call it a come back! We've been winning for years!
Me either.
Too many prospects for a guy who’d probably walk after the season. I can’t see the Twins committing mega money to another position player like Reyes would command.
12-5
If they don’t go 12-5 over the next 17 they should sell. They can still win if they sell. Trade Capps, Pavano and Delmon and replace them with a reliever they get in trade, Slowey and Revere and this team probably doesn’t miss a beat.
How to sell and still try to win
Delmon Young and Dumatrait to the Phillies for Danys Baez, Ben Francisco and a prospect
Matt Capps to the loser in the Heath Bell sweepstakes (Cardinals?) for a prospect
Kevin Slowey to the Pirates for pitching prospects
Carl Pavano to the Diamondbacks for prospects
Move Joe Nathan back to the closer role
Promote Kyle Gibson and Chuck James
Keep Kubel, Thome and Cuddyer for now, re-evaluate in August
Morneau
I would think a big part of the decision whether to buy or sell depends on whether Morneau’s coming back. I wouldn’t invest a lot in our playoff hopes without him there to help. Hopefully they’ll have a better idea how he’s doing by the end of July, but they might not have any idea by then.
The other question is, trade for what? If they’re back in it, it means their pitching is holding up, and their hitters have awakened. What position would you try to upgrade? Not another good prospect for average reliever, I hope? Maybe an infielder or RP that’s a being given away as a salary dump?
Cuddyer is probably as good as gone
He’s swinging a good bat right now and seems to always be knocking runs in, he is most certainly raising his trade value.
Now the part where people usually get mad, I would like to see Cuddy stay and have someone else dealt out of town.
Unfortunately who could they package, everyone is on the DL and the ones that are healthy really don’t have much value.

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