Twins Trade Delmon Young To Detroit
by Jon Marthaler on Aug 15, 2011 3:08 PM EDT
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PrintThis according to the Star Tribune.
It's a great day for America, or at least for Twins fans with eyeballs who therefore had to watch Young's laugh-to-keep-from-crying defense in left field. I've often said that I would have traded Young for a new set of bases. That the Twins even get one player in return, never mind two, makes this trade a coup for the Twins in my mind.
Young was making over $5 million this season, and was a candidate to be non-tendered at season's end, especially with the Twins facing a glut of outfielders.
According to the Star Tribune story, the Twins receive Class A lefthander Cole Nelson, who's from Edina and thus will be the butt of cake-eater jokes on this site from now on. Nelson's 5-11 with a 4.87 ERA this year in high-A.
The Twins also get a player to be named later, which we hope is not Delmon Young.
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I guess it's a little harsh to vote the first option here
He’s not AWFUL, he’s just awful for how expensive he is and the role he really needs to be able to play. That said, TWO players! Whoopee!
Since 2008, only one player has a lower WAR: Betencourt
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I just thought , penciling in Delmon as DH in 2012, occasionally RF
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Pro Tip: Don't google image search "Cole Nelson" to see what he looks like.
The third picture is really effing disturbing.
Is there anyone that’s actually going to think this isn’t a good trade for the Twins? Plethora of OFers, poor defense, poor bat this year, sending a sucky player to a division rival? So many wins…
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
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yeah, the entire Strib comments section
but they hate everything
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It does kind of suck that the Twins get one marginal prospect for Young and the Rays got nine good prospects for Bartlett and Garza
Kind of sizes up that trade, now doesn’t it?
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Aug 15, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Getting something, anything
for a player that was likely to be non tendered is a win. The fact that many Detroit fans are viewing it as a win for them just makes it better.
Wait until they watch him field.
Oh man. So excited we play them tonight. Hahahaha
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
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I know - I can't wait to see Delmon in Tigers threads!
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
They will ask why he's wearing invisible ice skates...
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
It is a win for Detroit
They’re giving up virtually nothing of value, he’s only due around a million bucks for the rest of the season, and they can nontender him afterward if he stinks. It’s a fine low-risk move for them, on the chance that he produces like last season or (God forbid) reaches his supposed potential.
That’s not to say it is a bad move for the Twins – assuming he was a likely nontender candidate, it’s good that they got anything for him, although they are risking the possibility that he breaks out with a division rival.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Sure, it's low risk for DET
I’m just not sure there’s much chance for any reward.
He's a 25-year-old career .290 hitter who hit 20 homers last year
There’s plenty of chance for reward.
Not that I’m saying it’s likely, mind you, but players have bloomed in their late 20s before. The Twins just aren’t going to be the ones to keep running him out there in the hope that happens.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Not likely
and not much chance. Sounds like we’re a lot closer to agreeing than not. He has two months to prove to DET that he’s worth $5+ mil. Otherwise he’s likely a nontender.
That is a load of crap, sorry but it is
He could hit .150 Rest of season
and Detroit will keep him for as long as they can.
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would they keep a poor-hitting, poor-fielding player for as long as they can?
Assuming he continues on this path, that is.
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
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Because he is a steal
Detroit will likely give him a major contract while we get a 5-11 pitcher from Single A that will basically live in our farm system for the next two years, and strikeout machine Austin Jackson. I much rather would have non-tendered him.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Sorry Doug_2050, Brian Wilson is creepier than me.
He's not a steal if he sucks.
Also:
@Kevin_Goldstein: New #Twins LHP Cole Nelson has been MUCH better since moving to pen in early July: 2.50 ERA, 18 IP, 17 H, 4 BB, 19 K
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
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Thanks fischean
I am trying to digest this deal myself. Hopefully he can be a reliever for New Britain next season.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Sorry Doug_2050, Brian Wilson is creepier than me.
Well, that's okay...
But I don’t think the fact that the guy isn’t even good enough to start in the minors is exactly a ringing endorsement.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Eh.
It seems to be more about having too many of one thing, and one of the things you have too many of is really not helping much, so get what you can for it.
I’m not really sure what people were expecting to get for Delmon?
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
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Honestly, nothing
I expected him to be nontendered in the offseason. I didn’t figure the Twins would get much more than minor league roster filler in a trade.
Still, minor league relievers (especially in the low minors) are not a tremendous step up in value from minor league utility players, although I am comforted by what missles said below.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Bingo!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 15, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
1500 interviewed him
He said he moved to the bullpen because he was approaching his innings limit for the season.
Where did you Austin Jackson from?
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
I think he meant that Jackson strikes out a lot.
Erm…I think.
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Just a guess
The Tigers might want to use him as the player to be named later and I don’t think he fits into their plans now they have Delmon.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Sorry Doug_2050, Brian Wilson is creepier than me.
You're wrong.
PTBNL can absolutely be MLB players. John McDonald, anyone?
Not saying I agree we’d get Jackson, nor do I even think it’d even be tabled, but it’s certainly possible.
I would say it's very unlikely in this case
The PTBNL is to be named by October 15th, and the Tigers theoretically could still be playing then.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Right
I think the point of the date is that it allows them to trade someone from the 2010 draft.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Agreed
The other option I’ve heard is that it’s someone on the 40-man but not the 25-man, and waiting until after the season allows them to trade him without waivers.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
That makes the most sense
’Cause signing day is August 15, so the 2010 draft picks were all available for trade by today.
Roger thinks it’s Oliver, who’s on their 40-man roster but probably would not have passed through waivers. The Twins drafted him before and did not sign him. They tend to acquire players they previously drafted.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Well
they are paying Inge 5.5 mil next year so maybe they will.
yep
he’s also the former #1 prospect in all of Baseball for 2 straight years…
you know at one time Delmon Young , the Same Delmon Young you know how valuable that commodity is?
You may never see a Twins player in uniform EVER AGAIN be a former #1 overall prospect in baseall
EVER again
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
sure its obvious plain stinking pain obvious
Delmon Young hasn’t lived up to his potential yet
He can’t field very well…
But He’s capable of getting himself in shape in the offseason 1Getting back to his peak performance level 2And Being an all-star stud A.L. MVP candidate annually 3
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
we've been saying this for years
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
he’s 25
how old are you Kubel’s beard?
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
what does my age have to do with Delmon's ability?
I see no correlation whatsoever, other than a bunch of hypothetical questions directed at someone (me) who does not play major league baseball
just curious about the point you’re planning to attempt to make
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The suggestion is that he's still "developing"
He was one of the best prospects of the past decade from 2004-2006.
2007 was an adequate rookie season for someone that youthful, but 2008 and 2009 were total stagnation and regression.
2010 was solid but 2011 is a total WTF year for him.
The question for him is how long his potential can still be based on 2004-2006 and at what point do people start believing that 2007-2009,2011 is the real Delmon.
At least
Delmon loves the classics, and loves to grill in Left field.
Somewhere Randball is weeping.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Sorry Doug_2050, Brian Wilson is creepier than me.
Whoa there
You may never see a Twins player in uniform EVER AGAIN be a former #1 overall prospect in baseall
Delmon Young was never the #1 overall prospect in baseball as a Twin. He was a struggling second-year outfielder that they paid a high price for and got little in return.
You can only judge a guy on “potential” for so long. At some point, production has to be a part of the deal, and Delmon has not delivered.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
He was #1 overall prospect for the Rays
At the time the trade made sense for the Twins because we gave up Matt Garza who was a pretty good pitcher for us.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Sorry Doug_2050, Brian Wilson is creepier than me.
They made the trade
because Garza was disgruntled. Disgruntled players don’t last long here (Todd Walker)…
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
He didn't struggle much for a 21-year old
When someone plays full time that young, it often takes a year or two for them to get their bearings. .288/.316/.408 is pretty good for that age… even with the low walk rate.
That's a fair point
Really, the red flags didn’t leap out tremendously until he put up his third straight year with roughly that same line.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Joe Mauer was the #1 overall prospect in baseball...
Pretty sure he still plays here…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
I just realized something horrible...
You may never see a Twins player in uniform EVER AGAIN be a former #1 overall prospect in baseall
SteveHoffmanSlowey has kidnapped Joe Mauer!
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
He's not that high yet
Crossing my fingers of course. At the same age, Delmon was hitting .322/.388/.538 in a full season in low-A (equiv: Beloit).
He has a chance to be #1
Maybe next year
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
At 19, Delmon hit 20 HR in AA... in the first half
Sano won’t do that in New Britain next year.
I’m bullish on Sano, but there are some amazing prospects out there. He’s not pee-in-the-pants level yet.
That's the only part that concerns me, actually.
That Delmon might start hitting better there. Otherwise, I think it’s kind of a win for MN.
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
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How could this possibly be a win?
Its a lose because of what was given up for him.
by clutterheart on Aug 15, 2011 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but it's not like we can go back to the Rays and get our other players back.
We had Delmon, he sucked, now we don’t have him. That’s how I’m looking at this. In the grand scheme of things, of course it was a terrible move.
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
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He was good at the plate, yeah.
His fielding’s never struck me as spectacular.
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
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Good arm
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 15, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorta shocking, though
Delmon’s value fell from Bartlett and Garza (granted this wasn’t proper value even then) to Nelson and a PTBNL.
Haha, yeah.
I mean, I know he was a highly-touted prospect, but man…
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let's not forget Brendan Harris
It was Delmon & Harris for Bartlett & Garza. And none of those four are with the Twins or Rays anymore.
Lots of players
the Rays got for Garza and Bartlett are still with the Rays/the Rays system, though.
by DK on Aug 15, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if we're going by that...
The Twins still have Hoey and Jacobsen, who they got from the Orioles when they traded Harris there.
(vomits)
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
thank you (+1)
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Only when making the decision on whether to escape a deal
Not when evaluating the performance or value of the deal
by clutterheart on Aug 15, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
But that's what the original post was about
How could this possibly be a win?
Its a lose because of what was given up for him.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
sunk costs
Should not take into account when making the deal, that part is irrelevent
But when calling the deal a win or a loss you have to look at the sunk costs.
by clutterheart on Aug 15, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
They're not part of the same deal
Trading away Delmon Young and trading for Delmon Young were two separate transactions, and they should properly be considered separately. You can certainly rate the whole Delmon Young experience as a loss based on both trades (and I doubt any rational Twins fan would disagree with you), but to say that today’s trade was a failure because they paid so much for him in the first place is not fairly evaluating today’s trade.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Disagree
Buying a stock at one dollar then selling at. 50 is not a win. It does not mean selling was a bad idea but there is no way in hell you call it a win (unless you are looking for the write off)
by clutterheart on Aug 15, 2011 8:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
See, we're talking about two separate things
Notice in my post that I specifically mentioned the difference in what we’re talking about – you’re discussing whether the entire process of having Delmon Young was worthwhile (including the fact that they paid a king’s ransom for him and sold him for a pittance). But you can’t use that measuring stick to judge whether this specific trade was good – Garza and Bartlett are a sunk cost. The question is whether they maximized Delmon’s current value – what he’s worth at this moment. You can argue that they didn’t get enough for him, but to say that they need to get the equivalent of Bartlett and Garza because that’s what they paid for him is like selling the charred remains of your uninsured house for $100k and claiming it was a bad deal because you paid $200k for it.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
And monkeys might fly out of my butt
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I think we're pretty safe on both counts :)
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
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absolutely
The guy is 25 years old. He hits .300. Smith is an idiot.
If he hits .300/.300/.300 with a UZR/150 of -20, Smith is a genius!
Actually, he’s still kind of an idiot ’cause the Rays got 10 times the production and 20 times the value in return for Garza and Bartlett.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
no question
Smith is an idiot. Look at the Santana trade. Look at this trade. Look at Rochester, New Britian, Ft. Myers.
He has virtually ruined the franchise
by Teo12345 on Aug 15, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He doesn't hit .300
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Haha, had to google image search after you said that
Ahahahahahaahaha
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
Wait, it that actually cole nelson in that picture?
I don’t know what he looks like…
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
Hahaha, part of me kinda hopes it is, because LOL.
But doubtful, unfortunately…
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
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I was brave
I clicked the link… Turns out the dude in the pic is from the same town as me. This slightly disturbs me
Nah, no cake eater here.
Coon Rapids. Dude in that google image pic apparently was born here as well.
Haha, congratulations on being from the same town as that fine, upstanding gentleman.
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Ohhh man
I wish I hadn’t taken the bait. Yikes
Wanted to vote for "Twins didn't get enough"
but then I saw all rebuilding teams passed on him when he went on waivers
Huge salary dump, huge upgrade in the outfield, no matter who takes over
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
+1
This move is a great example of addition by subtraction. OF defense is immediately better, and besides 1 very hot month last year, the rare offence Young gave us is easily replaceable, even by the Twins.
Tosoni
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 15, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Addition by subtraction - I was thinking this exactly.
If Cuddy or Kubel will be allowed to cover LF, we can actually have all of our best players in the lineup at once and none of them has to play 2B!
"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series
by WindyCityTwinsFan on Aug 15, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
that is not true
Teams passed on him because they didn’t want to trade for him
not becuase they didn’t want him, I’m sure the Twins had high asking price at first, coudlnt’ get anything going and apparently, i think its not even in question grew tired and pretty much gave him away to Detroit….of all places
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
PTBL better be an outside piece from Detroit's organization
they’re not gonna touch Jacob Turner in a trade.
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:13 PM EDT reply actions
I don't get it at all he's a DH and he'll likely would have been our starting DH in 2012
Just watch him be the Tigers DH next year
hit .320 with 28 Homers and kill Twins pitching….
You guys are MAJOR UNDERSELLERS………..
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:16 PM EDT reply actions
I mean, he's a DH who doesn't hit very well
Who gets paid too much….so….I guess to each his own?
Oh, he's much more than a DH
he’s a left fielder who can’t run, can’t catch and consistently throws to the wrong base
and gets paid way too much to do it all so fluidly
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
his UZR is positive this year not negative
of course you cringe when you watch him play defense….
But to each his own
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
He's 25 year old going on 35
With his weight issues he is likely going to struggle in the field even more in the next few years.
So...
He’s going to hit 30 points above his career average and beat his career high in homers by a third, despite moving to a place that’s as bad a pitchers’ park as Target Field? Okay.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
I love the catcher's response
“He just threw his bat. Weird. OK let’s play”
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
that is exactly what I was thinking, wtf?
“oh, yet another bat thrown at an ump. Another day another dollar. Let’s go.”
I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.
by montanatwinsfan on Aug 16, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
:)
The pitcher too: “Oh boy, he just got tossed what’s he gonna do [biting his glove]?!?! Just chuck his bat? Weak.”
"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series
by WindyCityTwinsFan on Aug 16, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
i believe thats Jon Lester , the Red Sox pitcher
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 16, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I will definitely miss the facial expressions.
But that might be it.
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
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"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Aug 15, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Best TT line ever:
“The Twins also get a player to be named later, which we hope is not Delmon Young.”
That is the line of the year.
by AM. on Aug 15, 2011 3:24 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
agreed
I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.
by montanatwinsfan on Aug 15, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Still though,
I wouldve like to have seen Delmon in right field at least sometimes.
Alright, I’m a Diamondbacks fan now untill they fire the GM.
Hockeymetricians, they're ever so pious. Are they doing real science or confirming their bias?
by DonBorvio on Aug 15, 2011 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think at this point, Gardenhire should go too
if he vouchered for this trade.
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
how would that happen though?
the people who made this trade are the same people who would fire Gardy, unless he decides to fire himself for approving such trade, but then why approve the trade in the first place knowing he’d eventually have to fire himself??
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
So...
I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Aug 15, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yet, knowing what he know about Gardenhire
he could fire himself first, only to then have the trade approved by lesser men, and then convince Smith to have him re-hired after the trade is complete, so I clearly cannot choose the wine in front of me
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn't ownership have say in who gets fired?
GM’s can advise, but i thought overall its the owners who have to give the OK?
by ScottyD4Life on Aug 15, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Diamondbacks? No way! Brewers!
Let’s keep it in the midwest. Brewers are the new Twins!
Actually this should be its own thread: Who to root for for the remainder of 2011?
Let's speculate on what this means for 2012
Revere in LF
Span CF
Resign both Kubel and Cuddy???
Pickup a FA DH or RH hitter with power?
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 3:30 PM EDT reply actions
They can't afford to resign Cuddy and Kubel...
They will probably re-sign Cuddyer, Kubel ends up elsewhere…
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
yeah, I'm thinking Kubes leaves
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Before the trade I'm thinking they both leave
untill this happened, now they better poney up the cash to retain 1 of them,,,
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
With Thome and Young gone next year...
…this increases the liklihood that they bring both Cuddy and Kubel back. They were spending over $24mm on the four this year, can easily pay $16-$18mm for two next year.
+1
I was thinking along these lines….just didn’t provide the numbers
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
"Re-Sign BOTH Kubel and Cuddyer"
hahahahahahahaahahhahahahaah
ohhhhh good one, I needed a laugh I really did
You think we can re-sign both of them?
I think we’d be lucky to get 1 of them
LUCKY
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Haahahahaahahahahah ohhh my god, ohhh my god i can't stop laughing
You really have no idead do you?
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
just a realist
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
good I'm glad i'm getting someone's attention, i'm rather surprised
sometimes i more than feel like faaaar less than 20 people are reading anything I say.
Not saying i put out valid points that are deserving to be read either….at all, just a lil man w/ a lil voice.
From now on I suppose, I’ll only post something that is actually worth reading, i guess
sorry
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 16, 2011 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If they resign Kubel & Cuddy...
Yes, power will be a need.
But I think DH is going to be divided between Kubel, Morneau and Mauer – unless someone makes Mauer play 3B and moves Valencia to SS (which, although highly unlikely, would make me happy). Unless aliens land on earth, I don’t think this Nishioka character is going to work out. If Mauer moved to 3B then we would need a catcher. How about trading Matt Capps to Washington for Wilson Ramos?
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
Irony =
Delmon Young in front of the “Best Buy” logo. Whoever chose that pic – genius!!
by Danny Valencia's Pubes on Aug 15, 2011 3:31 PM EDT reply actions
Well, since "Jason Kubel's Beard" was already taken . . .
It was the only option left.
by Danny Valencia's Pubes on Aug 15, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Klassy
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 15, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That kind of sucks
We got nothing in return, unless the PTBNL is Verlander.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 15, 2011 3:33 PM EDT reply actions
I am sad.
I truly love me some Delmon, variably placed _s and all. He had a horrifying start this year but has actually been well above average with the stick since June 1 and has hotted up nicely of late (.363 August wOBA). His defense hasn’t even graded out a liability. With the steady improvement, seems weird to sell so dirt cheap on him. Oh well. Guess you gotta git more PAs for Revere’s smile.
What are the odds that won't happen?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 15, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
his perhiperals are average
I can easily already predict, unless he gains a 50 or higher pitch on the 20-80 scale
or gains a few ticks of velocity
That, at best he’ll be a bullpen arm, probably middle relief, he won’t ever start for the Twins ever, unless he decisively gets better….and by a lot
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you sir
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 16, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't vote, needed another option...
…We can’t say we didn’t get enough as we don’t know what we got. Lets remain hopeful that Bill Smith got a decent prospect at Hi-A or AA. We can hope, can’t we?
Toby!
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Your post earlier may have been prophetic...
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
Tweet me! @jessicann713
Tumbl me! Tumbly
TWSS
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 15, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
although it'll probably wind up as Toby G
I’ll say……………………………David Bromberg
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Jim Leyland is a tough dude
He may make a ball player out of Delmon yet!
The other teams could make trouble for us if they win. — Yogi Berra
Hey, more power to him if he can.
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
Tweet me! @jessicann713
Tumbl me! Tumbly
Delmon Young is batting 3rd for Tigers tonight
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
That's more
an indictment of Leyland than of this trade. C’mon, his numbers shouldn’t put him higher than 6th in their order.
Haha, I know.
I find it amusing as well.
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
Tweet me! @jessicann713
Tumbl me! Tumbly
by fischean on Aug 15, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ouch.
Yeah, I’ve seen Ordonez’ numbers. That is pretty rough.
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
Tweet me! @jessicann713
Tumbl me! Tumbly
True
but only since Ordonez shouldn’t be batting 3rd anyway.
I love Leyland though
he’s just such a…..coach
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 15, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Screw that noise
I don’t want to help the Tigers
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 15, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't really have a lot of faith it's going to happen, so...
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
Tweet me! @jessicann713
Tumbl me! Tumbly
and teach him to smoke
Free Carlos Guiterrez! Free Chuck James!, Free Anthony Slama!
by holymackerel on Aug 15, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Bill Smith is an idiot!!!
Go back to the title…
by SpanFan on Aug 15, 2011 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
According to Tim Dierkes of MLB Trade Rumors:
By trading Young now, the Twins saved about $1.3MM in salary.
This makes me very happy
not only do we not have to have Delmon in left anymore but we get to watch him butcher the outfield for a division rival and bat third haha. Tigers fans are sounding optimistic saying well he has to be better than Maggs, they have no idea whats coming. Im definatly routing for Cleveland over Detroit let the red headed step child get a rare shot at getting demolished in the first round of the playoffs.
Free Carlos Guiterrez! Free Chuck James!, Free Anthony Slama!
I think Ben Revere is done with AAA
And Joe Benson might feel pretty good about his chances to get a small audition later this year
by twinscrazy_german on Aug 15, 2011 4:04 PM EDT reply actions
IMO
That’s too bad. Revere hardly played there at all, and there are a couple things he could have benefited from working on. Namely, reading pitchers for SB, and plate discipline.
I concur
By keeping Revere up with the big league squad, the Twins are making the same mistake they made with Carlos Gomez. He clearly needed more seasoning at AAA to improve his plate discipline, but he was kept up in the majors for his defense and wowing speed. Sounds a bit like Ben…
I'd also like to see Revere get more time in AAA.
by benhertz on Aug 15, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
this can't be understated enough
Revere needs AAA time…
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 15, 2011 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
ya hopefully we use the rest of this season to give some prospects a test run
Plouffe is getting his look with Casilla back on the DL, Revere is here to stay especially with this move let him get the rest of the season worth of at bats, give Benson a good look in September, same with Waldrop, Guiterrez, Hendricks. The rest of the season can still be productive if they use it to figure out what changes need to be made for next year to be in the running for another division title.
Free Carlos Guiterrez! Free Chuck James!, Free Anthony Slama!
by holymackerel on Aug 15, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think they will call on Hendricks (to start) unless something opens up
I think he stays down.
by twinscrazy_german on Aug 15, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Someone forward this to Gardy
Because otherwise, you aint seeing none of those listed above see any playing time (minus revere, who should be in AAA)
by ScottyD4Life on Aug 15, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm no scout, but..
Anyone who thinks Delmon is going to become an elite hitter is dead wrong. He has a line drive, hurky-jurky swing like Jeff Francoeur or Hunter Pence. Meaning he’ll be streaky as hell for his whole career. And his defense is atrocious. If he was an elite hitter, this might be palatable, but he is not and never will be.
"I wanted to do it because it's fun, it's fun to do bad things and drive into a car."
by PurplePeopleEaters on Aug 15, 2011 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
From BYB
Dombrowski is a beast
by YakAttack on Aug 15, 2011 2:13 PM CDT
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 15, 2011 4:18 PM EDT reply actions
The Twins need to hit everything to left field tonight.
Then the Tiger fans can really get an appreciation for what they are getting.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
by bf4mvp on Aug 15, 2011 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Just pissed that they traded within the division is all.
I hate the Tigers/White Sox/Indians with a passion, and I never liked trading starters with them.
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
by urluckyday on Aug 15, 2011 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
This
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 15, 2011 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow... I just realized we're playing DET today...
What fun. If our pitchers throw him anything near the strike zone, I’ll be miffed. No need to throw him a strike when he’ll just chase junk.
I'm hoping for
a steady diet of Frankie sliders. Someone said on Twitter that the players were joking about not telling Frankie just to see the shock of seeing him at the plate.
Hahaha, that would be so awesome.
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
Tweet me! @jessicann713
Tumbl me! Tumbly
And our hitters need to pepper him in left field.
The Tiger fans need to see what fun routes he takes to fly balls.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!
Have you seen Ryan Raburn in left field before?
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110426&content_id=18276054&vkey=news_det&c_id=det
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5181/5558621620_4fa3eb7930.jpg
I think Detroit will be well used to it.
by crc33 on Aug 15, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Young
This is an awful deal.
Billy Smith continues to depress me. From the Santana trade forward, he’s proven to be the worst GM is baseball. I agree that Young was not a very great outfielder, but he is a talented guy who we should have kept. Or, if keeping Delmon was too difficult under the circumstances, we should have demanded more from the Tigers. But, this one is a bad deal. Trading a number 1 overall pick who is currently in the majors and producing at the major league level for a 10th round pick who sucks in single-A ball is unwise.
I don’t care how much Delmon makes. We only had about a million left. With a $115,000,000, we should have kept him.
by Teo12345 on Aug 15, 2011 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It is possible the PTBNL is the better prospect of the two...
…trading after the July 31 deadline gets complicated. If the PTBNL is on their 40-man roster, I believe (not certain of this) he would also have had to clear waivers. By waiting until after the season, he can be traded to the Twins as part of this deal.
Perhaps someone like lefty Andrew Oliver...
…who we know the Twins were high on him as they drafted him out of high school.
Omir Santos?
…would be a welcome replacement for Butera.
"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series
by WindyCityTwinsFan on Aug 15, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, if he was signed less than a year ago, correct?
by twinscrazy_german on Aug 15, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
haha Perk appears to be happy Delmon is gone
via twitter
@keithlaw Keith Law
What? Twins should have offered free shipping. RT @jeffrent: Shouldn’t the Twins have gotten a little more/better for trading Delmon Young?
@ItIsPerk Glen Perkins
@keithlaw he rode our team bus to the field today. Does that count?
Free Carlos Guiterrez! Free Chuck James!, Free Anthony Slama!
by holymackerel on Aug 15, 2011 4:52 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Ha!
"I wanted to do it because it's fun, it's fun to do bad things and drive into a car."
by PurplePeopleEaters on Aug 15, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a Twins Trade
Another Everyday starter for a maybe-someday bullpen arm. Oh joy. If we were going to offload him, maybe we should’ve done it when he had value.
We would have kept him if he had value
Which is what we did last year.
We were going to get into the playoffs. He could have helped us ´get there (this year)
by twinscrazy_german on Aug 15, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
players
how many players on this year’s club would NOT be on any other team in the bigs?
7? 8?
Casilla, Dumatrait, Mijares, Hoey, James, Hughes
It’s like a nightmare — all from the wonder of Billy Smith.
Gardy plays a part but with crappy players it’s hard to expect a lot. That said, he continues to push back Slowey and promote guys like Hughes and Tolbert. Oh, add him to the list. . . .
Casilla was off to a terrible start, but he's had a decent season
He’s been about an average hitter for a middle infielder. His defense seems to vary a lot, but he’s still valuable.
"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"METEOR" - JIM THOME
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Aug 15, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Pure salary dump
He was worth less than they got for him, when all was said and done. As I said above, he had the lowest WAR of any player not named Betencourt since 2008.
The tragedy happened in the trade that brought him here. This only makes it too clear how bad that trade was.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
25
he is 25 years old and has a career batting average of .289. It’s fair to say he hasn’t produced like a number one draft pick. But it’s crazy to say that all we could have got for him was a 10th round, single-A, sub-.500 pitcher.
This is nuts. Young was an everyday major league starter. We’re going to get, at best, a starting pitcher in a couple of years. At absolute best. This is a horrifying trade.
Addition by subtraction
Young hurt us worse than he helped us, by a lot.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I wish I believed that.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 15, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
But batting average and his arm were his only strengths - he hasn't been very good at anything else
He doesn’t have an eye for the strike zone, doesn’t walk much, and swings at too many out of zone pitches. He is one of the least patient batters in MLB, doesn’t take pitches, and has a lot of first pitch outs. He takes bad routes in the outfield and doesn’t have great range. He finally hit for power last year, but other than that he hasn’t hit for much power either.
He has a great arm and he hits for average, but that’s about it.
If his 2012 is like his 2010, we will look back and this will be a bad trade. But are we really willing to risk paying him at least $5 million, probably more, if his 2012 is just like his 2011? I don’t think I’d take that risk. I’d rather have Revere playing than Young. If the front office feels the same way, they would have nontendered Delmon for 2012. Then we’d get nothing at all for him. If you look at it that way, it’s better to get fringe prospects and save salary than get nothing.
"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"METEOR" - JIM THOME
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Aug 15, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
If only batting average was the only thing that mattered.
Sadly, it definitely is not.
"I wanted to do it because it's fun, it's fun to do bad things and drive into a car."
by PurplePeopleEaters on Aug 15, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Normally, the Twins don't like to trade within the division
But if you can send a competitor a – 10 WAR player, you make your competitor weaker.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Not to burst your guys' bubbles
But Maggs is -1 WAR according to Fangraphs. Delmon is… 0.6. Not very good. but better than Maggs, I think. We needed him out of the lineup.
well only 1.3 million since we only have 40 games left
Joe Mauer grounded out to second
Bill Smith - Buy high, Hold high, Sell for a bag of chips
It's a trade to prepare for the offseason
He would have to nontender him in the offseason b/c/ the rules of arbitration reward service time more than performance. Even though he’s been the Worst Outfielder in Twins History™, he would get a raise next year.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Aug 15, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
And if that leads to another season of Matt Capps?
Joyous. The only thing this GM can do is stockpile average or below Bullpen arms.
by Shawn Gillogly on Aug 15, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
UM, no
Matt Capps would be gone if anyone wanted him. They’ve been shopping him for weeks. If they can’t dump him, they’ll just let him go in the offseason.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
It is a bad trade for the Twins
It’s a very stupid trade. There sure are a lot of haters of Delmon out there. He finally had a good year last year, 100 RBI and everybody still hates? He’s only 25. He’s struggled this year but who hasn’t on the Twins? He’s had injury problems and has struggled just like our whole team. I am not against a trade of Delmon Young, but if you are going to trade him why not do it before the trade deadline and get at least something out of the deal. We got 2 players who will never make it to the big leagues. I can’t wait to watch Delmon kill our terrible pitching and get resigned by the Tigers and kill us year after year now. Gonna be awesome!! A lot of you sure know how to hate on a player who pretty much carried our team last year. I hate the trade and I hate Bill Smith. Yet another trade he makes where we get nothing.
even so
Really? That is your argument? he had a crappy year? Shoot, let’s trade Joe Mauer, too, because his one GD home run certainly ain’t worth $23,000,000.
Not $23MM
Mauer has a real talent for baseball. But nobody is as overpaid this year as Joe Mauer.
Say what you want about Young but he came to play everday. He hustled. The mistakes he made were not for lack of effort.
I was at a Detroit game with my four year old and watched in disgust as Mauer jogged down the line on a groundball he hit to short. That was after the passed ball that they ruled a wild pitch.
I seem to remember, and, correct me if I'm wrong
Delmon pointing at the ball as it went past him, waiting for Denard to pick it up and throw it back in. Great hustle
Yeah, uh...Delmon and hustle are not two words I think of together very often.
Seriously? The mistakes were not for lack of effort? Oh, okay.
"You hang it, we bang it." -TK
Tweet me! @jessicann713
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He just watched the ball roll to the wall and let Span run over from center
Meanwhile, guys were circling the bases.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Big Deal
Want a cookie? Your anecdotal impression doesn’t make anything you said less false.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
When you compare Mauer and Young, you lose face.
Young runs like he’s on ice skates. He can’t play defense.
Mauer is the face of the franchise. He’s also still banged up.
If you don’t like Mauer because he’s never been arrested or doesn’t snort rails of blow off stripper’s arse’s, just say so.
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
by Kpz1234 on Aug 15, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Best of luck to Delmon
I’ve criticized him plenty, but I still have a lot of good memories about him. It was a lot of fun seeing him hit last year and hoping he finally reached the potential that people saw in him as a prospect.
"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"METEOR" - JIM THOME
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Aug 15, 2011 5:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Delmon is bad
Delmon is very bad, and was not worth tendering a contract at the end of the year. By trading him now, they saved an extra 1.3 million and got a couple minor league arms in the deal, which is superior to just releasing him.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
DY
Delmon just had to go. I could not watch his tongue for another season. At bat, it twisted and lurched like his route to a fly ball. Gross.
via Detroit News
“I found out driving in from the mall and Bill Smith called,” he added. “I thought it was a prank.”
I guess we now know how/where he got his work outs in…
by Pat first blog on Aug 15, 2011 5:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Probably was at Sears
getting parts to upgrade the Hibachi
by spanspanspan on Aug 15, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Two Possible Outcomes
But first, Holy {redacted}, [redacted]. Great move Billy. I wish the best for Delmon, but it is good to have Boromir off the Fellowship.
1. Delmon strikes out 4 times on three pitches tonight. Difficult but doable. Also, he has an game losing error.
James Hoey finds movement on his fastball.
Brett Jacobsen and Deolis Guerra combine on a no hitter
J.J. Hardy’s groin explodes in flames
Johan Santana’s arm falls off while sitting on the couch.
Matt Garza gives up five consecutive home runs and retires.
Jason Bartlett also decides to retire to join Lew Ford on the new PBS program “Antique Star Wars Action Figures Show.” (Actual dialogue: “Actually, Jason, this Episode IV Obi-Wan Kenobi is fairly worthless due to the number of times he went on Navy SEAL patrol in thhe bathtub.”
Who am I missing? Oh, Jon Rauch actually shanks a real person. And,
Jesse Crain is, well, Jesse Crain.
Or…
Leyland starts Delmon in RF and he hits five consecutive home runs.
I have two questions about this
1 – Did we include the hibachi in the trade, or will Detroit have to provide their own?
And more importantly,
2 – Is it – finally – the end of the Chuck Knoblauch era for the Twins?
It’s difficult to ascertain whether or not an A ball pitcher & PTBNL will make the big league team. It’s easy to suggest that they probably won’t. Let’s review:
- Knoblauch had a 35.0 WAR career with the Twins, then was traded for Danny Mota, Brian Buchanan, Cristian Guzman, and Eric Milton.
- Those four accumulated 21.1 WAR during their Twins careers. Milton was traded for Nick Punto, Carlos Silva, and Bobby Korecky. Buchanan was traded for Jason Bartlett.
- Those four accumulated 21.4 WAR during their Twins careers. Bartlett ( along with Matt Garza ) were traded for Delmon, Jason Pridie, and Brendan Harris.
- Those three combined for ( ahem ) almost 1 WAR during their Twins careers.
Chuck Knoblauch’s tenure with the Twins has resulted in 78.4 WAR over 21 seasons. I don’t know about you, but to me, that’s a pretty mind-blowing legacy.
Big Papi 2.0?
Hopefully this won’t turn into Big Papi 2.0. Don’t know if it is the Twins trying to put their philosophy of taking the 1st pitch and hitting to the opposite field that have perhaps stunted Delmon, but I have a bad feeling that this will turn out poorly for the Twins. Granted, his hitting was more a Poor Man’s Vlad Guerrero, but he did hit some screaming line-drives for HR’s, so his power was legitimate. Its not just that he was a #1 overall draft pick, but that he was the #1 rated prospect as well. (#1 overall pick doesn’t mean a whole lot: i.e. Phil Nevin). That has to be good for something.
Maybe just a change of pace will be good for the guy. I liked the guy. We should’ve put him in RF to utilize his arm like the Rays did.
What were the last few trades that ended up in the Twins favor? How does BAL get Adam Jones for Eric Bedard, and the last remnants of the Santana deal are Jim Hooey? Hello Capps for Ramos? How good would Bartlett look at SS now compared to Nishioka (Or Hardy for that matter)? Gone are the days of AJ for Liriano/Nathan/Bonser.
Plus, even though this trade signals officially seller/bulid for the future mode, couldn’t they have done this at the trade deadline and gotten somebody of value?
My guess is that Plouffe would translate nicely in the OF and not be a liability in the middle infield.
Very frustrating to be a Twins fan…
Ortiz
Ortiz was a pretty good hitter with the Twins., believe it or not, or at least a lot better than Delmon. He just could never stay healthy and wasn’t worth giving a raise.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
They said the same thing about Hardy
by clutterheart on Aug 15, 2011 8:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, but the rules were different then.
Nobody thought Ortiz was worth what he would have made in arbitration. If the Twins could have signed him to the contract that the Red Sox did, they would have without question. I believe they’re even on record saying so. But back then when you nontendered a guy you couldn’t resign him until well into the season.
At least one team thought Hardy was worth going to arbitration with, and they were right.
They shopped Young at the trade deadline, but didn't get much interest
"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"METEOR" - JIM THOME
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Aug 15, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I felt kind of mean for my initial reaction to this,
but I heard it on the news when I got home and started jumping up and down because I was happy. This was after running 3 miles and a 60 lunges plus the rest of practice. I regret the choice to celebrate like I did but I was happy
I called Thome's 596th home run! BOOM! :D
I wish I would have done it in my head
I called Thome's 596th home run! BOOM! :D
by twinsgirl197 on Aug 15, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, I'm resigned to the fact that Delmon was traded,
but can we please trade Valencia now too?
"The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't."
Follow me @SimulacraAlex or on facebook!
Why that'sa bad idea
- Unlike Delmon, Valencia will make the minimum next year and he’s under team control for four more years
- Unlike Delmon, Valencia is a positive WAR player even though he’s having a rough sophomore season
- Unlike Delmon, Valencia has upside: He should progress to the mean between his two seasons as his lucky year and his unlucky year even out
- Unlike Delmon, Valencia plays the infield and has a history of being pretty good at fielding
Bottom line, you don’t trade a cheap commodity when his trade value is at a low ebb. Besides, even if they tried to trade him, I’m sure some team would block the deal by claiming him.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Aug 15, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
this
"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"METEOR" - JIM THOME
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Aug 15, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
*screams*
NO!
I called Thome's 596th home run! BOOM! :D
by twinsgirl197 on Aug 15, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
With Morneau back
I really want to see Mauer pick up a 3B glove. Let Valencia know that he needs to stop screwing the pooch on defense
by bl4ckduck on Aug 15, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
9 Outfielders left on the 40-man roster:
Denard Span, Michael Cuddyer, Jason Kubel, Ben Revere, Trevor Plouffe, Rene Tosoni, Joe Benson, Chris Parmalee, Jason Repko.
Trading Delmon to save $1.3 million in a lost season is an okay move in my book.
I'm not upset by this move
Delmon was either going to be non tendered at the end of the season, or would get arbitration and be overpaid next year.
To me the thing to consider is the noticeable lack of power of next years team. There is a good chance Cuddyer and Kubel will not return. That pretty much leaves Mauer who is more of a doubles hitter, Morneau may or may not return to former glory, and Danny V as the only power threats on the team. There is a good chance the Twins could finish last in the AL in extra base hits next year.
Mark "slugging percentage" as another stat
the Twins have not valued in the Bill Smith era.
You know, like they don’t value “Ks per 9 innings” from their pitchers? Yeah, like that.
by Shawn Gillogly on Aug 15, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
That's an awful lot of questionable assumptions
First of all, I would assume that either Cuddyer or Kubel are brought back. Both were offered contracts recently as a gesture of good faith. I wouldn’t be surprised if both are brought back. Secondly, you are forgetting the organizational leader in homers: Trevor Plouffe (15 in AAA and 5 in the majors), who looks to be an everyday player at second base next year. Thirdly, the Twins will have more funds to work with without needing to pay for Delmon or Capps, and with a reduced contract for Nathan. They can afford to stock up on a veteran bat like Thome.
Delmon has hit four homers this year. His career SLG is .426. He has only hit more than 13 homers once in his six-year career—hardly a slugger by any standards. Why does his departure signal diminished power? If anything, the law of averages says the Twins should have more power next year. They lost a combined six months of baseball from their three biggest sluggers this year: Kubel, Morneau and Thome. And Morneau is really only healthy now for the first time in over a year.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Given the Twins recent history
They will not pony up the money for both Kubel and Cuddyer. That’s just not happening. I’d put Cuddyer as 50/50 coming back. If he doesn’t sign early in the offseason he will be gone after getting 3 year offers for more money. Kubel I’d bet less than 20% chance. He will get a multi-year deal that will be out of the Twins reach. They still need money for bullpen help which won’t help them to resign these two.
For your second point, Plouffe is in Gardy’s doghouse and as we all have seen it is very, very difficult to get out of it. I would be amazed, yes amazed, if he gets a starting job out of spring training.
For your third point, the Twins really have never been big spenders in free agency and they will most likely bring in some retread. It will more likely be the next Mike Lamb instead of Thome.
by Desert Aaron on Aug 15, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Twins' recent history: Going from $75 to $115 million in three years
They are far from skin flints in the new stadium.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
True
But when was the last time the team signed a front of the rotation starter, or everyday impact player? The team doesn’t take those risks. They are not going to sign Chili Davis or Paul Molitor and things work out swimmingly.
by Desert Aaron on Aug 15, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Um, they considered Pavano a front-line starter who signed for cheap
He certainly pitched like one before this year. Prior to Pavano, they signed Santana to a four-year, $48 million deal.
Most recently, they signed Mauer to an eight-year $184 million deal two years after they signed Morneau to a six-year, $80 million deal. Nathan got a four-year, $47 million deal. Cuddyer himself got a three-year, $24 million deal. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him sign a similar deal with the third year an option year.
They take those risks.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
So?
Granted, they won’t sign high-priced free agents. But who wants them to? That strategy doesn’t work too well, unless you’re one of the top six teams in payroll.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
yeah I'm a little more with D Aaron here
You can essentially look at total payroll at the 100+ MM range as Joe Mauer’s contract + what we were in 2009
or the 75MM range…..and all the years throughouth the mid-late 2000’s
We’re still a mid-market team and in my mind, on the side teatering on small ball….. yeah its nice to have the luxery to use 120 Million if you have to, but I don’t think we will next year nor do anyone rebuilding ever use their maximum threshold…
I think we should be in the 100 Million range next season. Mauer’s contract eats a quarter of that alone.
Hate to say it, I’d rather use the full 116-124 Million or whatever our absolute max is. but Don’t think it’ll happen for Kubel and Cuddyer…. Maybe Cuddy but thats about it and what about Nathan?
I think it’d be awesome if we could re-strucutre Nathan’s contract in a ‘new’ one to say 2 yrs (2012 and 2013) w/ Option that vests for 2014 (if IP requirement is met) and each year garnering between 7.5 to 9.5 Million .
that’d save us some more money for 2012.
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 16, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
ohh and i'm not saying we're "rebuilding"
Just more of a Re-assesing what you have season coming up. and a tinker here or there……..
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 16, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Why does his departure signal a lack of power?
I imagine because Ben Revere is going to inherit his job. It’s not that .426 is an impressive slugging percentage, but it might be a hundred points higher than we can expect from Ben.
Also
You have to consider that it is not just a lack of power, but a lack of on base percentage will also hurt. How many Twins likely on next years team are likely to have an OBP over .350? Just Mauer and Span. We cannot just assume Morneau will return to 2010 levels.
I was going to say
Even if you assume he regresses from his 2010 rate stats to the mean for his career, his OBP will be .353.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
So let me get this straight regarding some of the people who don't like this trade.
1. Some are under the impression that Delmon is a good player, and are angry that the Twins traded a no-glove and meh-bat outfielder for a relief prospect and a PTBNL.
2a. Some recognise that Delmon is not a good player, but somehow think that Bill Smith got ripped off because he didn’t get a good prospect for an outfielder with marginal value.
2b. Some recognise that Delmon is not a good player, but think that selling low on Delmon and getting anything is somehow a worse option than just non-tendering him after the season and getting nothing.
2c. Some recognise that Delmon is not a good player, but are complaining that the Twins are selling low, because they think that Delmon’s value could go up over the course of the rest of the season.
3. Some think that the trade, when judged on its own merits, is a bad trade because acquiring Delmon was a bad trade to begin with.
Bang-up analysis.
by funnytrain on Aug 16, 2011 8:32 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
3 is the closest to my thinking, except the clause "when judged on its own merits"
This trade is mostly a “cut your losses” trade. As such, I’m OK with it.
I’ll be even better with it when they determine that the PTBL is a high draft pick from 2010. The only reason they couldn’t announce it yet is he can’t be traded yet.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
DId you include......
Lester Oliveros?
haha
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 16, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you include...
Some people think that because Delmon was the #1 prospect in baseball 5 YEARS AGO and has never produced anything save one year that will be viewed as an outlier statistically, that we should have gotten much much more for him (like Justin Verlander).
"When among evil companions, try to fit in." - Wild Bill Donovan
I'm happy with the trade but (rant warning)...
The one thing that bothers me is the continued ‘sell low’ habit of the front office. In this case I think that’s fine because I don’t believe they expected to tender him in the off season anyway, so we get some scraps here versus getting nothing at all. Still, it seems like the Twins didn’t try to deal Young this past off-season when his value was at it’s highest point since we traded for him, and if that is accurate that was a huge mistake. I believe they hoped his strong 2010 season (1.5 hot months to be precise) was a sign of better things to come but they really should have known better after watching him everyday for 3 seasons.
For some past questionable trades the Twins FO seems to compound their errors by sticking with the guys they got in return, sink or swim, perhaps to save face with their fans.
- A recent example: Keeping Capps this season for what many Twins fans believed was a bad contract. Most of us guessed they would do this no matter what the deal was because otherwise they would basically be admitting the Ramos trade was a poor decision (a top prospect for a 1/2 year rental = bad trade, always). Anyway, that bad contract kept the Twins from resigning multiple relievers this off-season, so saving face on the old Capps deal cost them a better pen this season. That’s two errors on a single trade.
- Recent example 2: Giving Hooey so many chances to keep his job with the big club earlier this year in spite of getting pounded. Did they do this because they wanted to try & justify their salary dump Hardy deal? Hrm.
Maybe this Delmon deal is a good sign for the FO though, they sold low again but at least they didn’t worry about saving face – they made the best of a bad situation, even if it ultimately made them look bad to their fans.
I agree.
Of course it would have turned out better had we traded Delmon earlier. Not many people expected him to be bad again, though, so I think this trade is a little different from the other (awful) decisions that Smith has made.
Well, I would say 2b is a stretch. Though I thought 3 at the time as well.
Because you’re assuming yet ANOTHER pair of minor league bullpen arms=something. This is yet another case of this FO trading everyday players for trash, and THAT is what annoys me. If you want to make a trade like this, then they should’ve been selling at the deadline…gee…like I said we should’ve been then, perhaps.
Now they clear the logjam we had 8 months too late for another bag of balls. We’re not supposed to look at that and say, “You screwed up?”
Being willing to be fleeced doesn’t change the fact you got fleeced. It just means your standards are so low, you don’t know how to make a profitable trade anymore. And yeah, that describes Bill Smith’s tenure as GM fairly well.
by Shawn Gillogly on Aug 16, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
They offered him up at the deadline; no one wanted him
They got what they could while their was anything to get. If they turn the Tigers down, they get nothing but a headache in the field and a disappointment at the plate for the rest of the year.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
And who on the roster hasn't been both of those this year anyway?
by Shawn Gillogly on Aug 17, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Aren't you a cheery fan
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Aug 17, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's a fair point
Other than Cuddyer, Kubel, and Span, I suppose, and the latter two have been hurt.
The difference with Delmon is that he’s been a headache in the field and a disappointment in the plate for three of the four years he’s been with the Twins. He’s had one good year out of four, and the most recent year was the worst of them all. He was claimed by no rebuilding team as a potential building block – it’s apparently the opinion of more than just the Twins that he’s unlikely to earn his salary (or come all that close) next year.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
ptbl
Lester Oliveros 23 yr old, RH reliever
had a cup of coffee for Tigers earlier this year in which he posted above a 5.2 ERA
call it uninspiring… Ohhh Drew Smyly or Chance Ruffin or Andy Oliver how i loathe you
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 16, 2011 2:55 PM EDT reply actions
milb.com stats
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=500902
~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 16, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
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