Orioles 6, Twins 1: Liriano to Disabled List, Scott Diamond to Start Friday

by Jesse on Aug 25, 2011 5:08 PM EDT in Game Recaps

Francisco Liriano left today's game with a left posterior shoulder strain. It's unfortunate for any number of reasons, but it's hard at this point to have any other attitude besides "It figures". He completed two innings, but was never really on his game. Liriano struck out a pair but allowed two singles and two walks in the second inning, the second free pass scored the one run the Orioles scored in the frame.

Bollingerliriano_medium

Unfortunately, the shoulder strain will send Liriano to the disabled list. I have no doubt that we've seen the last of him this season. There's no reason to bring him back at this point, and it's a philosophy I'd start carrying over to the rest of the squad over the coming weeks. If Mauer and Morneau are sore, shut them down. Play Drew Butera and Chris Parmelee. I'd love to see an outfield of Ben Revere, Denard Span and Joe Benson.

The reality of the season is that we're at the point where looking forward to 2012 is in the best interest of the club. Forcing stars onto the field because they "should" be there isn't going to make this year look any better, and it can't help the team's prospects beyond the next few weeks.

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Comments

Be prepared for a cloud of locusts, Jesse.

Glad I only got to watch half of this one…

Follow me, mmk?

Fudgesicle Fudgesicle Fudgesicle

by John_Locke on Aug 25, 2011 5:14 PM EDT reply actions

"Twins, I am disappoint."

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 25, 2011 5:38 PM EDT reply actions

I went to this game, thinking there was no way they'd get swept by the Orioles, so they would have to win

I was wrong.

On the plus side, I got a former All-Star to sign my scorebook. Of course, it was Ron Coomer, so I doubt it’s going to be worth something someday.

by ColossusOfRhode on Aug 25, 2011 5:41 PM EDT reply actions

At least the Legends Club is nice...

bright spots are getting difficult to come by.

by archie2227 on Aug 25, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions

That is true

I wandered around a bit and saw all the memorabilia for Killebrew, Carew, and Puckett. Oh to be a World Championship caliber team again…

by ColossusOfRhode on Aug 25, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Sounds like the Jimmers deal is probably going to go down

http://twitter.com/#!/CaminoTribe/status/106843440377114624

Follow me, mmk?

Fudgesicle Fudgesicle Fudgesicle

by John_Locke on Aug 25, 2011 5:45 PM EDT reply actions

Let's try that again

From their Beat Reporter

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by John_Locke on Aug 25, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions

I hope not. They don't deserve Thome.

They’ve booed him every time he’s been back there.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
あなたが深淵に長い間熟視場合、深淵はあなたにも眼差し。 -Nishi

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 25, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

Ugh,

This team. I. Just. Can’t.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!

by bf4mvp on Aug 25, 2011 7:25 PM EDT reply actions

Scott Diamond, really?

Scott Diamond is not part of the future, and in this type of season, the fans have left to see is what the future holds. That means bringing up a pitcher like Hendriks to take Liriano’s spot. It means bringing up someone like Joe Benson to take Thome’s spot after his trade goes down. But knowing the Twins, they’ll put Dinkelman (or even Gardy Jr) on the 40 and bring him up instead. There seems to be no sense of direction for this organization anymore.

by QtrFinn on Aug 25, 2011 7:34 PM EDT reply actions

I think the Twins are in a bigger state of transition than they thought they'd be.

To be fair, they’re in a bigger state of transition than we all thought they’d be.

by Jesse on Aug 25, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions

They need a big shake up.

Starting at the top.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!!!

by bf4mvp on Aug 25, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Hendriks isn't ready

He’s not performing in AAA. September is next week. I don’t mind if they wait until then to bring up any kids like Benson. No sense is starting any clocks when its just a week.

by DavidRF on Aug 25, 2011 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree

People are grasping at straws. If these prospects were ready to help the team win they would be up.

by DJL44 on Aug 25, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Diamond isn't exactly "performing" at AAA.

5.66 ERA, 1.6 WHIP. That said, yes, he may come up and pitch a shutout Friday night. But perhaps Hendriks would have, too. As a fan, I’d rather see someone who has a future in the big leagues.

by QtrFinn on Aug 25, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Diamond could be a 2nd lefty in the bullpen

He’s probably not a starting pitcher in the big leagues.

by DJL44 on Aug 25, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Hendriks is also on short rest so the point is moot anyways.

Still, I don’t see the point in rushing a promotion for him when he’s only pitched 35 innings in AAA and is still in the adjustment phase there. This is clearly an emergency start. I don’t expect much from Diamond, but he’s older, has been called up before and is on longer rest.

Just because we’re out of the playoff picture, we can’t just call up all the high-ceiling guys from the minors. There’s a developmental process as they climb the levels… especially for pitchers.

by DavidRF on Aug 26, 2011 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions

I think it's moot...

Hendriks will likely replace Duensing very soon (innings restriction for Duensing) with Dunce-cap going to the pen where he belongs. I bet we’ll see this rotation within 10 days or so:

Slowey
Pavano
Swarzak
Diamond
Hendriks

by DJSkillz on Aug 26, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Is there really a need for name calling with him?

Come on.

Follow me, mmk?

Fudgesicle Fudgesicle Fudgesicle

by John_Locke on Aug 26, 2011 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

Its kind of funny how he favors Slowey over Duensing

They’re both struggling bottom of the rotation guys who are only in the rotation because we don’t have five guys who are better. But the one with injury and attitude problems with the 6.84 ERA is the future of the team and the one with the 5.12 ERA guy is heaped with insults. Not to mention the 4.49 ERA guy is on the DL now, thank God, because he really hated that guy. :-)

by DavidRF on Aug 26, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 6 recs

ya, because Slowey's got such a large sample size this year.....

Slowey is a better starter than Duensing, by far.

by DJSkillz on Aug 26, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions

and that's not to say he's some stud starter...

but he’s a league average starter in his career, and is just 27. Duensing is a reliever. I actually like Duensing, but he’s a reliever, and can be valuable in that role.

Now Nick Blackburn, I actually hate. Least favorite Twins pitcher of all time, easily. He’s been arguably the worst starter in baseball over the last 2 years.

by DJSkillz on Aug 26, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Well you did at least say arguably, so I'll cut you some slack.

But, once again, just a tiny bit of research would turn a potentially ego-driven statement of hyperbole into a defensible position.

Fangraphs allows you to make multiple year comparisons quite easily. If you looked it up yourself you’d see that over the past two full seasons Nick Blackburn provided the 15th least value of all qualified starting pitchers. So he for sure near the bottom.

Yothere are some other interesting names right down there at the bottom with Blackburn:

Rick Porcello (sucks to not be 20yrs old anymore, huh Mr. Phenom?), Bronson Arroyo, Fausto Carmona,

CJ Wilson …

and … gasp, cough, choke on my bile …

Matt Garza.

I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.

by montanatwinsfan on Aug 26, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions

you're using WAR/$...

those are not be-all/end-alls, which is why I said arguably. I’m fully aware of those numbers, as well as xFIP/FIP, K/BB, etc. All of the peripherals and the total picture put Blackburn squarely in the mix for that.

Also, there’s a large difference between those guys and Blackburn. All of those other guys you mention have either age, stuff, or both working for them as far as future potential. Nick Blackburn doesn’t.

by DJSkillz on Aug 26, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions

that's not WAR/$ that's just straight WAR

second column in from the left.

I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.

by montanatwinsfan on Aug 26, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions

when you click on the link you get WAR from top to bottom

then click on the WAR link and it will re-sort WAR bottom to top.

I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.

by montanatwinsfan on Aug 26, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions

and yeah,

didn’t mean to imply that WAR is the be all end all of stats, of course.

I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.

by montanatwinsfan on Aug 26, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions

By War/$

I meant that you were using WAR “and” $ value based on it, that’s all.

I’m fully aware of those values on there; I look at them too, but there are deep flaws in them too. I think a good case can be made that he’s been the worst pitcher in baseball over the last 2 years, considering all peripherals. Which is why I said “arguably”. But does it really matter?

The fact that he’s even in the argument, with pretty much zero upside (stuff and age), AND is making a decent amount of money the next 2 years means we should all want him off this team at this point. If we could trade Nick Blackburn for free, considering his contract, I probably would at this point.

by DJSkillz on Aug 27, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions

you keep saying you are aware of, and understand all of the stats

but I don’t think I’ve seen you provide evidence of one single statement, or opinion that you’ve thrown out here over the past month or so.

You keep throwing out stuff like “just look at his peripherals” but you’ve never quoted, listed, or linked to a single statistic as far as I remember.

You make vague references like “a decent amount of money” without mentioning how much, or why it might be too much.

And yeah, it does matter.

It’s easy see: Nick Blackburn is making $3million this year according to Cot’s which is actually not a bad salary since he is close to providing 1 WAR this season. Given the fact that he likely won’t reach 1 WAR due to injury he probably won’t quite be worth the $3 million salary, but his contract/value is hardly the Twins biggest problem.

See how easy it is to make reasonable supportable statements and actually provide a bit of support for your argument?

I feel that responsible members of this community need to either: 1) make reasonable thoughtful comments and opinions or (at least)
2) provide evidence of some sort when they make exaggerated, hyperbolic statements (not pointing the finger at you here DJSkillz.

No one HAS to support their statements, but it really makes this community a poorer place when we have so many people who are constantly saying such goofy stuff without any evidence whatsoever.

I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.

by montanatwinsfan on Aug 27, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

and P.S.

Yes, it would be nice to be able to replace Blackburn with someone better, but again, he’s hardly our biggest problem as he provides plenty of value at the number 4/5 slot in the rotation.

I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.

by montanatwinsfan on Aug 27, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions

The Twins aren't used to being in this position

Usually, the Twins have 1) something to play for in September and 2) a strong farm system to fill holes. Neither is true this year. The coaches aren’t used to giving extended auditions to youngsters or let stars sit and recover from the season. But more scary for me is the consequence of the sparse farm system.

The Twins have holes in just about every area of the team. In my opinion, starting pitching is the biggest hole. The Twins are going to have to get into the free agent market. I don’t know if they have the wherewithal to pay the money they’ll have to pay to get quality players. They have never been a club to do things as flashy and ostentatious as pay large sums of money to fill the holes in their lineup!

by al-exx on Aug 25, 2011 9:13 PM EDT reply actions

What about Pavano?

That was pretty flashy considering no one else wanted him.

Anyhow, they had better GET used to it. They need to do their jobs and do them well.

by MNPundit on Aug 25, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions

On a positive note

At least when OUR pitchers give up 22 runs, the other team has to do it 1-3 runs at a time and not by hitting 3 grand slams in one game like the Yankees did against Oakland.

The other teams could make trouble for us if they win. — Yogi Berra

by Twnzfan on Aug 25, 2011 11:45 PM EDT reply actions

A few questions:

Will there be any movement this season on replacing the medical staff?

Maybe Morneau should play simply so he doesn’t get rusty and continues in “real” games?

It always seems like the Twins “give up” at the end of most seasons, but it appears this time it happened early.

by MNPundit on Aug 25, 2011 11:52 PM EDT reply actions

Really?

I think they’ve been in the playoffs, or in contention till the last week of most seasons in the past decade. When was that “give up” part?

by Theo77 on Aug 26, 2011 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions

Here's what I"m talking about.

Usually once they sew it up, the Twins pack it in for the season and then get blow out in the playoffs. The only exception was when they were in the competition to the end like in 2006 and was it two years ago? Not sure. Anyhow they got blow out to. I’ve seen again and again, they just seem to lose all fire and they start to lose a lot more games. But since they’ve already clinched it’s ignored.

Maybe that’s just standard let down, but I’m not the only one that thinks it leads to trouble in the playoffs. They get flat and then they can’t get out of it in time. I’ve also seen how when they play in the playoffs once they get behind they start giving up, just hacking away, especially when the Yankees get a lead because of the history.

So you want a time frame? September.

by MNPundit on Aug 27, 2011 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions