White Sox 6, Twins 1, Defense -17: Is Minnesota Now One of the Worst Fundamental Defenses in Baseball?

by Jesse on Aug 7, 2011 9:16 AM EDT in Game Recaps

If Danny isn't pouting right here, he sure looks like it.

When things go bad it's easy to slip into hyperbole to demonstrate your immense frustration. But when I ask if the Twins are now one of the worst defensively fundamental teams in Major League Baseball, I'm not sure I'm blowing anything out of proportion. The Minnesota front office chose to emphasize speed at second base and shortstop last winter, instead of defense, and given the personnel involved it's not really surprising that we've seen the results that we have.

Injuries have taken their toll, but then the issue becomes lack of depth. Last night the issue in the middle infield wasn't necessarily errors, although that's been an issue in the past, but the Twins were starting Michael Cuddyer at second base (again) and quadruple-A stalwart Matt Tolbert at shortstop. I agree that Cuddyer's bat needs to be in the lineup on a daily basis, but putting him at second is essentially the organization indicting itself on it's lack of vision.

Saturday night's game was hard to watch. Not because the starting pitcher was terrible, which we've gotten used to lately, because Carl Pavano was actually pretty damn good. He went eight full innings, and left the game with his team down just 2-1. Partially it was hard to watch because both Glen Perkins and Joe Nathan had a meltdown in the ninth with some help from (virtually) the entire Chciago batting order. But mostly it was hard to watch because the Twins had repeated chances to score and repeatedly blew those chances.

White Sox starter Zack Stewart, who was such an unknown quantity in this game that I incorrectly stated he'd made the first three starts of his career with the White Sox instead of the Blue Jays, was repeatedly bailed out by the Twins, who were 1-for-10 with runners in scoring position. Let's talk about the moments where the Twins killed themselves offensively, and just ignore the two terrible defensive errors.

After Cuddyer's first double, with two outs in the first, Jason Kubel strikes out.
Delmon Young was thrown out leading off the fifth by trying to stretch a single into a double. He was thrown out by Juan Pierre.
With Matt Tolbert on second and Drew Butera on first, both Denard Span and Joe Mauer grounded out to end the fifth.
Jason Kubel only made it to third base on Jim Thome's double.
Jim Thome couldn't score from second on Danny Valencia's RBI single into center.
Delmon Young grounds into a double play to end the sixth.
With Matt Tolbert on second with one out, Span and Mauer fail to get him home in the seventh.
Cuddyer doubled to lead off the eighth, and advanced to third on a wild pitch. Down 2-1 with the tying run on third and nobody out, Kubel, Thome and Valencia recorded three consecutive outs without plating the run.

Not all of those things are mistakes. Holding Kubel and Thome at third were two good decisions. But having to hold them in a game like this made a huge difference in the outcome of the game, and just add to the frustration of a terrible game.

We'll leave it there for now. Hopefully the Twins can take the final game of the series today, if only so I can flip it over to the Chicago feed and listen to Hawk get depressed.

Studs

Carl Pavano
Michael Cuddyer

Duds

Denard Span
Joe Mauer
Glen Perkins
Joe Nathan

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Valencia gets a dud for that play at 3B

I think he just took his eye off the ball

by DJL44 on Aug 7, 2011 9:29 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs

Paging Danny Valencia

Go home to your mother.

Note, she lives in western St. Cloud, near the Waite Park area and wants to knock some sense into you.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 7, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions

um ok dude I'm not his mom thats just creepy as hell

I called Thome's 596th home run! BOOM! :D

by twinsgirl197 on Aug 7, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Seriously

Knock it off

Follow me, mmk?

by John_Locke on Aug 7, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions

It is meant as a joke

But the Fans need to see not only Danny, but the entire team peform well. If I did offend somebody sorry, but I was basing that original line on the picture Jesse posted of a quivering Danny.

by Jessy S on Aug 7, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't care if its meant as a joke,

its creepy

I called Thome's 596th home run! BOOM! :D

by twinsgirl197 on Aug 7, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Stop it

You have been warned.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Aug 7, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions

I think we just need to really watch the creepiness levels, here.

We don’t talk about people’s mothers. We don’t hit on people. Let’s just stop crossing lines that shouldn’t be crossed, please, okay? In general no stalking behavior, which includes but is not limited to: talking about where people live, talking about how perverted a specific person may or may not be, and holding up boom boxes outside of a bedroom window.

by Jesse on Aug 7, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs

So its ok for Lloyd Dobbler

But not us? :)

As someone whose had three stalkers in real life – I’d be worried.

by Black Metallic on Aug 7, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions

In Valencia's defense

I watched the play. It was by no means an easy throw to handle.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Aug 7, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions

I didn't say I could handle it

TK said it’s a play that needs to be made

by DJL44 on Aug 7, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Aug 7, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions

They are just bad

We can parse all we want, but ultimately, they aren’t a good team. What’s more, they are pretty much bad in all phases.

The Wolves are like the worst meal you've ever had--terrible while you're eating it and even worse later.

by Eric in Madison on Aug 7, 2011 9:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Two things

First, it’s hard to imagine anyone engaging in hyperbole around here.

Second, it’s not easy to express our immense frustration, because words are inadequate little things that were never meant to express these particular depths of frustration, despair and disappointment.

by gbg on Aug 7, 2011 9:49 AM EDT reply actions

More Plouffe

What a joke to start Tolbert at short and Cuddyer at 2nd base. Right now the Twins would be drafting number 8 in next June’s amatuer draft. The Twins are not going to win the AL Central and particularly not with Tolbert starting. The Twins’ offense is often weak, weak, weak. Plouffe should be starting most games for the rest of the season: at 2nd base, at ss, in the outfiled, and even some at 3rd base. Just let him play—they’ve let Valencia just play all season and look at the results. He does have some rbis but not enough to justify him as a solid 3rd baseman. He needs a kick in the pants. Plouffe needs the same opportunity to play to see if he can produce similar mlb numbers to his AAA this season. If so, great, and if not, then at least the Twins have a better idea of what he can and cannot do in Minnesota.

For the offseason: trade Butera to a team that wants a good defensive backup catcher and then find a better hitting catcher who can start 50 to 70 games next season.

Have Mauer catch 80 to 100 games and play 60 to 40 games at other positions (1B, OF, and DH)

Hope that Morneau can stay healthy next season

Find a 2nd Baseman or play Plouffe there or live with Casilla there

Platoon Valencia with a FA pickup

SS — Black Hole or Nishi learns to hit .265

LF — FA/Trade

CF — Revere

RF — Cuddyer

DH — FA/Trade

SP — Baker
SP — Pavano
SP — Liriano & hope he is much, much better
SP — Swarzak
SP — Hendricks

RP — Perkins, closer
RP — Duensing
RP — Burnette
RP — Guttierez
RP — Blackburn
RP — FA/Trade
RP — ???

The Twins can/should try to acquire some FAs—no Type A Free Agents but Type Bs and other FAs. The Twins could/probably should trade Span because he has an enticing contract and bc he is a good player. The Twins could use him to address some positional needs. Let Slowey pitch this season, and then trade him if he does well. Trade Butera for a A ball prospect.

The Twins should not offer arbitration to Thome, Nathan, Capps, and should offer it to Cuddyer and to Kubel. I think Kubel will take a contract elsewhere, so the Twins will get a sandwich round draft pick for him. I doubt that it is a good idea to give Cuddyer a contract extension, but I suspect that the Twins will do that.

I don’t know what the Twins will do about D Yound and about Liriano.

by Twinsoholic on Aug 7, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Seriously

We need to get a certain stubborn mule out of the Minnesota Twins manager’s office. The new manager needs to preach good defense and offense, and the speed will come in due time. Finally, get rid of Pitch to Contact, our pitchers should be blowing the ball right down the middle and the ump should have no choice but to call strikes.

by Jessy S on Aug 7, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions

this team stinks

The best things that could happen the last 2 months of the season would be (1) Plouffe re-establishing himself as a legit option at an up the middle position (2B or SS) and (2) Morneau returning to something resembling his former self, giving him something to build on for next season.

by matswilander on Aug 7, 2011 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

doesn't hurt as much as it did in April/May

but it still hurts

The beard abides.

by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 7, 2011 10:47 AM EDT reply actions

It seems like a lot of organizational problems are rearing their ugly heads this year; a sort of Twins-centric perfect storm.

They’ve got some easy outs with the injuries and the bullpen, unfortunately.

by jianfu on Aug 7, 2011 10:51 AM EDT reply actions

About the picture,

Yeah, Danny looks like he’s about to start crying. That’s the face my cousin’s two year old makes before a temper tantrum lol

I called Thome's 596th home run! BOOM! :D

by twinsgirl197 on Aug 7, 2011 11:59 AM EDT reply actions

So, what do you think, is he a legitimate major leaguer? n/t

by MNPundit on Aug 7, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions

that's just creepy as hell

by just kidding, right? on Aug 7, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd like to point out that....

…time and again, when the Twins face a pitcher for the first time, they are completely out-classed. It doesn’t matter if it’s new guys or simply guys who aren’t good they’ve never faced, the overwhelming majority of the time they are totally flummoxed.

The explanation for this that I have seems intuitive: the first time they’ve seen this particular pitcher throw the ball.

My question: The Twins never seem to catch on the entire game even if they’ve gone through the order several times. Possibly because they are not seeing many pitchers per at bat, possibly not. Is that normal for baseball teams? Or do most teams start to get a better feel for a pitcher the second time through the order?

by MNPundit on Aug 7, 2011 1:34 PM EDT reply actions

Good point

IMO, it’s a consequence of the aggressive approach taught throughout the system. With a pitcher you’ve never seen, it’s better to be more patient. But we seem incapable of being patient, save for Span, Mauer and Thome.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Aug 7, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Mauer

Mauer has only 8 extra base hits and 57 hits total in 199 at bats this season.

by minnietwinkie on Aug 7, 2011 2:49 PM EDT reply actions

Mauer isn't an issue this year

He’s not having a “good” year. He has, however, had enough good years that it’s reasonable to believe we’re OK at catcher.

We’re bad defensively.

Any time we put a combination of Young, Kubel & Cuddyer in the outfield, we’re bad.

Valencia’s defense (IMO, no metrics here for you) has regressed. NIshi’s nothing special, Casilla’s nothing special, none of the “utility” guys are “good glove” guys.

The offense is full of holes. No “2” hitter & the bottom third is as weak as – or weaker than – your typical National League bottom third (that’s bad).

Pitching has been pretty consistently bad – Perkins has been good, Nathan’s been good since his return from the DL, Baker’s had moments … the rest of the guys, no.

There’s no pitching staff in baseball that strikes out fewer hitters. All this “pitch to contact” stuff is aggravating, especially when the defense behind our pitchers is lousy.

IMO, we’re seeing the end of the run. There simply aren’t enough “better than average” ballplayers on this roster.

by BD57 on Aug 7, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions