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Top 10 Candidates for the Twins 2012 Rotation

I'm not sure what's gotten into me lately. Maybe it's the pressure of the upcoming move, or maybe it's just the way the Twins have looked for most of 2011, but I feel like I'm being pessimistic. And I'm not a pessimist. But let's jog, very quickly, through our options for the Minnesota rotation in 2012.

Scott Baker - The guy we all thought would be the one sure thing in the '12 rotation. Or at least, that's what he was to me. Baker has been outstanding this season, and being healthy was a big part of that success. His fastball has been one of the better ones in Major League baseball, and he was seemingly putting his tools together to showcase the best possible version of himself. And he was fun to watch. But with the recent news that another stint on the disabled list might be upcoming, and let's be honest that definitely means it's upcoming, I'm nervous about his elbow. He's still having issues with it, and it's the same elbow that was cleaned up last winter. I'd be lying if I said Baker's right elbow wasn't a big concern for me right now.

Francisco Liriano - What makes it harder to bear Liriano is that he's so much better than every other pitcher on this list. Potentially. But he runs hot and cold. If he puts it together again in '12, like he did in '06 or '10, then he's more than capable of being a staff ace and Cy Young contender. But if he's enigmatic again next season, even if he's healthy all year he's a number three starter.

Star-divide

Carl Pavano - He's certainly capable of soaking up innings and working deep into games, provided he doesn't succumb to an avalanche of hits and runs in the process. Definitely on the down swing of his career, and if he's not claimed by another club this month I doubt the Twins will be able to shift him this winter. At least, not without picking up a good chunk of his salary, and I'd have doubts about moving him even then.

Nick Blackburn - Nick is another good innings eater at the bottom of the rotation. While he's still making the kind of money he's scheduled to make over the next year or two there's certainly value in that. Reliability is good from the back of the rotation, even if there isn't any upside. If he could find a way to miss more bats he'd be a good number three, but ultimately he's going to profile as a number four or number five.

Brian Duensing - Like Blackburn, Duensing profiles as a guy who has value at the back end of the rotation. Duensing is still under team control as well, which helps in terms of cost-to-value ratios. But he still gets pounded by right-handed hitters which means that, just maybe, he's a guy who should be situated in a long relief or left specialist role. It's not necessary right now, but it's definitely worth thinking about for 2012.

Kevin Slowey - At some point this season the Twins will need to give Kevin another shot at The Bigs, and it will, essentially, be an audition for him for next year. Whether that audition is for the Twins, or for the Twins on the trade market, is up for debate. But one thing is for sure: he's not a sure shot, and just like everyone else on this list he has question marks attached to him.

Anthony Swarzak - He's pitched brilliantly in long relief so far this year, but just like Blackburn and Duensing and Pavano he doesn't have good stuff. He relies on guile, location, command and his defense, and when offenses get a lock on him he does get blown up. We've seen it before, and there's a reason we didn't see him in Minnesota at all last season. He's been the benefactor or some luck this season. Does he deserve a shot at the rotation next year? Probably. But again, he won't be more than a back-end guy. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just that the Twins have a lot of those.

Kyle Gibson - With Tommy John in his future, potentially, we're still in wait-and-see mode with Kyle. Here's hoping for the best, but if I'm honest I'm hoping they put him under the knife asap if that's what it will take. A prescription of rest hasn't worked for guys in the past, and if we want him to be ready as early as possible, then the earlier he does in for surgery the better. I know it's better to be safe than sorry, but the track record of the Minnesota training staff has left me a little trigger happy.

Liam Hendriks - Hendriks strikes me as a potential rotation candidate next spring. As far as I know he hasn't encountered any health issues this season, and he's posting another effective and successful season in the minor leagues. I'd go so far as to say that, of all the Twins starters in the minors, Hendriks has the best chance to make it into the rotation first.

Jeff Manship - Manship has posted decent numbers in Rochester over the last couple seasons, but he doesn't have the ceiling of Gibson or Hendriks. Manship strikes me as a guy who, in some respects, is like Swarzak. He's capable of being effective in small doses, and he could potentially fill in short-term in the rotation, but his upside is likely as a long or middle reliever. Prolonged exposure to Major League hitters is likely to expose his vulnerabilities.

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Manship and Swarzak are good candidates for the bullpen

Bromberg might be a bullpen candidate also if they can get him some more innings in the AFL.

by DJL44 on Aug 9, 2011 11:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Vanilla

It’s a nice flavor but nobody says it’s “to die for.” That’s what the Twins have become. We have a rotation of number 3-5 starters who are sometimes really good, sometimes really awful, but usually just OK . The FO needs to start trying some different flavors. That’s what Garza was and what I think they thought Frankie might become. But he hasn’t. At this point, it makes no sense to try to pick up an elite ace, beacuse there are so many holes in the team, but maybe a #2 type. Or draft some. Vary the pitch-to-contact with a fiery, strike-out guy. I don’t know. Yeah, when you try for bigger flavor sometimes you end up getting it wrong (like chocolate asparagas ice cream or something), but at least it would be interesting.

The other teams could make trouble for us if they win. — Yogi Berra

by Twnzfan on Aug 9, 2011 12:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Baker is a top of he rotation guy

I expect Liriano to bounce back an have a good season in his contract year. As far as Baker’s injury, I have a feeling he’ll be fine. He throws his fastball primarily and that pitch puts less pressure on his arm. I personally think Hendriks and Slowey are better than Pavano and Blackburn.

by Coolio12 on Aug 9, 2011 12:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Don't agree re: Baker

He’s been solid this year, no doubt. Still, his “solid year” has him at #32 of qualifiers in WHIP.

Baker’s more of a #3 on a playoff team (and a #4 on a good pitching staff).

by BD57 on Aug 9, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know that being #32 of qualifiers

means that there’s just enough guys better than him for one #1 per team, right? Which puts him pretty squarely in “top-notch #2” territory.

by DK on Aug 9, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

except there aren't 32 playoff teams

The Astros have a “#2 starter” in their rotation too – I’d hope to do better than “good enough to be a #2 somewhere in MLB”

by BD57 on Aug 9, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly, which is why i said #2 on a playoff team...

i feel comfortable with baker as my 2. and liriano is certainly capable of being a solid playoff #1. he just hasn’t been consistent enough. that’s the big problem. and the fact that we have no 3rd guy with the stuff to succeed against good offenses. hopefully either slowey can have a career resurrection or gibson can be that guy in the next few years.

by DJSkillz on Aug 10, 2011 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

If Baker is your #4 starter, you’re probably playing a video game.

by Jesse on Aug 10, 2011 4:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

yup...

A “top 32” pitcher in baseball is NEVER a “#4”.

by DJSkillz on Aug 10, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Front Office

We need some new blood in the FO with some new ideas. Why do we have such a hatred for power pitchers. Every one of our starters is the same thing pretty much. We only seem to want mediocre pitch to contact pitchers on our team and they will never be able to get it done when it matters. You cannot have a starting rotation full of #4 or 5 starting pitchers and expect to win in the playoffs, or even win divisions for that matter. I realize that we have won the division plenty of times with these pitchers but there have also been some pretty epic collapses from the Tigers and White Sox that have given us a chance to barley sneak in to the playoffs, only to lose in 3 or 4 games every year. 90% of the pitchers we draft seem to fit the same mold, control pitchers who will end up being #3 starters at best. Our bullpen is essentially the same thing with very few hard throwing power pitchers over the years. Control pitch to contact pitchers are just fine, but when it’s pretty much all your team has you are most likely not going to go far. Also, why is it that the Twins wait longer than any other team to give young minor league players a chance. It’s like there is a mandatory rule that you must be at least 24 years old to get a chance to play at the big leagues. You can’t tell me that we have no young players who could be given a chance to throw out of the pen. What harm could it do, we only have the worst bullpen in the MLB. Let’s just stick with the same old sucks. I sure miss Terry Ryan. Bill Smith is a joke of a GM in my opinion. Trades Hardy for nothing, how nice would a .270 BA with 23 HR’s and solid defense out of the SS position be? Trades one of the top catching prospects for Capps. How nice would Ramos of been while Mauer was on the shelf? Instead we have had the privilege of watching Drew Butera play in more games than he should in his whole MLB career. I might be wrong on this one but I also believe Smith was the one who traded Johan. I realize that we had to trade Johan because he wasn’t going to sign but what did we get out of that deal, again nothing. You’re telling me we can’t get one good player for Johan Santana? I’m afraid that Smith will consistently have us in the basement in no time.

by Jeff Gieseke on Aug 15, 2011 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Twins need to test the FA market in the offseason

I’m not sure which starters will be on the market this winter, but the Twins need to pick up a dominating pitcher. With the exception of a healthy Baker (which we don’t know they have) and a consistent Liriano (which we don’t know they have either), the the whole rotation is made up of 4 & 5 pitchers. If Baker and Liriano aren’t at the top of their game, the Twins have no top of the rotation pitchers. They don’t have anyone who is a clear choice to take game one of the ALDS.

by al-exx on Aug 9, 2011 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Who's talking about the ALDS?

Honestly, it seems like whoever we put out their in the playoffs ends up sucking :(

by Coolio12 on Aug 9, 2011 12:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Not really

It is most likely that the Twins would want to maintain or slightly increase payroll next season. They were handcuffed and couldn’t do much in free agency last year. This year we have the following players coming off the books:

Jim Thome
Joe Nathan
Jason Kubel, and
Michael Cuddyer

We can also decline arbitration to both Francisco Liriano and Delmon Young. Note: Neither are in my plans. I’ll explain Francisco Liriano below, but I would try to trade Delmon Young to Milwaukee for Nyjer Morgan and shift Danny Valencia to spot starting in the outfield.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

One note

The only spending the Twins will do in regards to the first four above players other than Michael Cuddyer is give Joe Nathan his buyout.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK - I'll bite....what would Milwaukee do with Delmon?

With Braun and Hart locked up for the forseeable future, why would Milwaukee give up their starting CF for a struggling batter who wouldn’t have a defensive position to play in a league without a DH?

"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series

by WindyCityTwinsFan on Aug 9, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't know

But a change of scenery would do Delmon good.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not much to look at in Milwaukee.

Maybe if he lived in the Dells.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"There is absolutely no connection between me, Emo Phillips, and 'emo' music." -Emo Phillips

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 9, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why?

Why would the Twins want Morgan, a guy who looks and awful lot like Spann and Revere? Especially when the the outfield is the one area in which they don’t really need help (assuming that they resign Kubel and Cuddyer, which they will).

by amiller92 on Aug 9, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Check out the following websites for free Agent info

Cot’s Baseball contracts (want to click on 2012 Free Agents), or

MLB Trade Rumors (want to click on 2012 Free Agents as well too)

Links should be on the home page, but if not, do a goggle search.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

The goggle search does nothing!

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"There is absolutely no connection between me, Emo Phillips, and 'emo' music." -Emo Phillips

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 9, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

There's a reason out contact prone staff us stugglig more this year

The defense has been horrid. Last year our defense was top five in the league. Valencia (compared to his D in 2010), Nishioka, all the pitchers, and Delmon play horrid defense. Casilla has also been enigmatic at times.

Also, Buster Onley said that the Twins view Nishioka as a AAA player in the ESPN broadcast yesterday. He said Nishioka doesn’t understand defensive fundamentals and that the Japanese scouting reports were misleading.

by Coolio12 on Aug 9, 2011 12:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Damn ou auto correct!

Us=is out=our and I meant struggling

by Coolio12 on Aug 9, 2011 12:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm not happy putting the onus of the scouting reports on those coming from Japan.

The Twins had their own scouts and should have known what they were in for. And honestly, I think they were. They knew he was going to struggle somewhat. But I still think the last couple weeks will be big. Any sign of development would be a great thing for Nishioka right now.

by Jesse on Aug 9, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it's hard to believe that they thought he was

More than capable to play in the majors immediately.

by Coolio12 on Aug 9, 2011 1:30 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Any sign of improvement would be great for Nishi

However, Dan Gladden talked about how Japan is laid out during a recent game. Basically he stated that the parks are smaller and that the bigger ones are domes. Also, the majority of the fields are turf. Finally, Nishi recently dropped a fly ball because there is no infield fly rule in Japan. I think that is more of a sign that Gardy needs to go because there is no doubt that if he can’t teach a player the differences of baseball between Japan and the United States, how can I trust him to lead the ballclub as manager?

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Television says there isn't one.

Unless we are talking about one of the non-domed stadiums.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not what Gladden said.

He said that there is an infield fly rule in Japan, but sometimes the umps don’t call it. So, if there’s a chance to turn 2 by dropping a controllable ball, there’s no harm in at least seeing if they might not call it and go for the double play.

"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series

by WindyCityTwinsFan on Aug 9, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was watching the TV broadcast

And Bert said that they usually do go for the DP. Therefore we are talking about an unwritten rule in Japan and that is the understanding that infielders will go for the DP rather than catch the ball. Besides Gladden works in Radio.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty weak crop of SP free agents

CJ Wilson – will be 31. Lefty will get a big deal from someone, maybe the Yanks. After him though, it’s not much.
Mark Buerhle
Edwin Jackson
Scott Kazmir
Hisashi Iwakuma

And with Gibson’s injury, Wimmers problems and Hick’s up and down season, it doesn’t look like the team will have a lot of strong trade chips to get a starter. Next years rotation will look a lot like this years rotation.

by Gunnarthor on Aug 9, 2011 1:13 PM EDT reply actions  

After next year though, awesome class

Danks, Greinke, Weaver, Liriano, Cain, Hamels, Marcum, Sanchez.

by Gunnarthor on Aug 9, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

the vast majority of those guys will be extended before then though...

Danks isn’t all that. Greinke will get extended or traded or extended. Weaver will get extended. Cain will get traded or extended. Ditto for Hamels and Marcum. And Sanchez doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence. FA for pitchers is going to get weaker and weaker.

by DJSkillz on Aug 9, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Danks is a pretty solid pitcher.

Some of those guys will get extended but not all and since most of those guys play on good teams they aren’t likely to get traded at the deadline by a team in contention. And several of those teams will be facing some payroll crunch. And a Boros guy like Weaver won’t extend at all.

by Gunnarthor on Aug 9, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

disagree...

i think danks is highly overrated; certainly not an ace, at least.

but i bet all the rest of those extensions happen. or if they won’t, they’ll be traded and extended by their new teams before FA. that’s just the nature of the beast with ace pitching now.

by DJSkillz on Aug 10, 2011 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Alex Wimmers has been pitching pretty well as of late.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

That would be the case if Wimmers wasn’t hurt in the first place. Most trade chips are in Double or Triple A.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

My pitching staff for 2012

Out for season with Tommy John
Scott Baker
Anthony Slama
Kyle Gibson
-————————
Might as well get the surgery over with for all three pitchers.

Starting Rotation
Free Agent: my pick would be Mark Buehrle. The White Sox are going the youth route and will not resign him. Another pick would be Jon Garland as well.
Anthony Swarzak
Nick Blackburn
Brian Duensing
Kevin Slowey

Spot Starter and Long Relief
Scott Diamond

Relief
Alex Burnett
Phil Dumatrait
Chuck James
Glen Perkins
Carlos Gutierrez

Closer
Carl Pavano
-———————————-

Overall, the 2012 Twins staff would be about the same as last season. With the current news not good on three of our pitchers, I am keeping Pavano and making him our closer for 2012 since Joe Nathan isn’t going to be here after we buy out his contract. Another pitcher gone is going to be Francisco Liriano. Basically the Twins are in a dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t situation meaning if we offer arbitration to Liriano, he likely will not accept and elect to become a free agent. So it would be wise to not offer arbitration to him. If we comes crawling back, we will sign him to a one or two year deal and he will take Swarzak’s place in the rotation and Swarzak will take Chuck James’s place.

As for Liam Hendriiks, he will be on the 40-man roster.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 1:50 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Just shoot me now

Swarzak, Blackie, Duensing, Slowey? That’s four guys most teams would use as their 4th or 5th starter, if they even made the team.

Personally, I think Swarzak and Duensing will improve (a little), but Blackburn and Slowey are more likely to run out of gas or hurt themselves before the year’s half over.

This team is hurting for starting pitching, and it doesn’t look like it’s gonna get better anytime soon. If Gibson and Slama get TJ’d for the year, it’s even worse.

Lights on the horizon: Dumatrait seemed to be pitching better lately. Maybe it will carry into next year. Burnett has started to look effective again. Chuck James…jury still out. Perkins looks fantastic as an 8th inning guy, maybe a lefty closer, too. Gutierrez is supposed to be good, but hasn’t shown much in AAA. Maybe Bromberg will start pitching well.

I’m not a Scott Diamond fan. If his control is not perfect, he gets killed, and so far since coming back from Rochester, his control has not been perfect.

This situation begs the question: Why does a team with a $120 million dollar payroll have such a lame pitching staff?

by jimbo55403 on Aug 9, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

my god

Twins would lose 100 + games with this staff

by clutterheart on Aug 9, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

We will not lose 100 games with this staff.

We will lose at least 54 and that is based on baseball’s general rule.

Besides I can see us upgrading our defense in the fall. We need Gardy gone and somebody is going to have to step up as fielding coach. Jim Thome can do that if he wants to do so.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

LOL

This is hilarious. Thome as fielding coach and Pavano as closer. Who is your pick for 3rd base coach, E.T.?

The beard abides.

by Jason Kubel's Beard on Aug 9, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely bring ol' Scotty "The Windmill" Ullger back at 3rd base

I vote for Matt LeCroy as full time pinch runner.

JIM JAMS BUSINESS IS MASHING TATERS, AND BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!

by MashinTaters on Aug 9, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

No E.T.

I want Drew Barrymore instead.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

More gold.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"There is absolutely no connection between me, Emo Phillips, and 'emo' music." -Emo Phillips

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 9, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carl as closer?

because Carl has such an outstanding track record of getting people out? Oh wait.

by missles on Aug 9, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

2nd lowest K rate in MLB screams "closer"

"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"METEOR" - JIM THOME

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Aug 9, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well Pavano will have to go someplace

And we need a closer.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pavano's main strength is that he's an innings eater

It would be better to put him in the rotation, take up some more innings, and give Perkins a shot at closing.

"Nobody wants to hear me rap." - Joe Mauer
"METEOR" - JIM THOME

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Aug 9, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

True

But so is Mark Buehrle.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

With that logic

We should just plop him in the middle infield somewhere.

by Caulfield on Aug 9, 2011 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pavano as closer?

OK … no. Just “no.”

We desperately need pitchers who MISS BATS.

by BD57 on Aug 9, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't belive I read this entire post

There’s two minutes of my life I’ll never get back. Now I’m waiting to see that you’ll coax Manny Ramirez out of retirement to play SS next year in your forthcoming “How to Fix the Twins infield” post.

by matthew0211 on Aug 9, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe Bill Smith can trade for the Royals Farm system too

"We’re all in this boat together. Everybody grab an oar."
-Tom Kelly

by Go Twins! on Aug 9, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't want Manny

He would have to serve 100 days suspension anyway and Bud will make sure that starts on opening day. We will not get him until the Saturday before the All-Star Break If our season starts Friday March 29.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gold.

Pure gold.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"There is absolutely no connection between me, Emo Phillips, and 'emo' music." -Emo Phillips

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 9, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sell high, buy low

I know a lot of people will disagree with me here, but I’d trade Blackburn. I’ve stated here before that I think that Blackie has no upside. Hell, I would say that this season will probably be the best of his career (read: negative upside). His value will likely never be higher. -And with a thin free agent market for starting pitchers, we have an opportunity to get maximum value for him. To me, this just feels like the perfect ’sell high" opportunity.

For the opposite reason, I would offer Liriano arbitration. This year has been a disappointment, but he’s still got a ton of upside. I expect him to have a better 2012, and even if he doesn’t, offing him arbitration only commits the Twins to one season. This decision is pretty much a no-brainer, IMO.

FIRE DAN EDWARDS!!!

by Flip27 on Aug 9, 2011 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Inconsistant starters are a dime a dozen

And he is signed with a long term deal for decent money.

What team would want him and that contarct?
(Besides a Bill Smith led team)

by clutterheart on Aug 9, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

But as I said above

The Twins are in a dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t situation with Liriano. Quite simply, Liriano will likely reject arbitration if the Twins offer, and if the Twins decline, Liriano is a free agent. Remember that he and his agent made noise in regards to Liriano’s $4 million contract.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Aug 9, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is he allowed

to reject arbitration this offseason? I was under the impression that he won’t be a free agent until next offseason barring the Twins non-tendering him.

by archie2227 on Aug 9, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd go with this crew (assuming healthy) in this order...

Liriano
Baker
Slowey Mind-boggling how dumb the Twins have been in handling this.
Pavano (I hate to keep him, but you almost have to because you can’t get anything for him.
Hendriks or Swarzak.

Blackburn dealt to an NL club for a decent relief pitcher; I’m sick of watching Carlos Silva II.
Duensing to the pen to help there. And he can still be insurance for the rotation.

You’ve just made the rotation no worse than it currently is (probably better) AND have upgraded 2 bullpen spots. Sign 1 FA arm in the pen, don’t bring back Nathan or Capps at the money they’ll require, and roll with this crew in the pen:

Perkins
FA RH reliever with velocity
Mijares
Duensing
Pitcher in a trade from Blackburn
2 of the kids (Burnett/Swarzak or Hendriks/Manship/Gutierrez/Waldrop/Slama)

If Liriano is going well again in 2012 (like 2010) then extend him. Ditto for Baker (who’s only signed through 2013). If you can get anything for Pavano, do so as well. And monitor the trade market for a team that may or may not be rebuilding depending on this FA period. For instance, look at Wainright (risk coming off of TJ, but worth it IMO) if the Cards don’t re-sign Pujols, or look at Cain, or look at Greinke.

by DJSkillz on Aug 9, 2011 4:21 PM EDT reply actions  

This is probably the best we can hope for presuming no major deals (unlikely from the Twins)

Speaking of RH reliever with velocity, how bad does opting to pay Capps 7+ million this season look when they could have retained the vastly more effective Crain (2.72 era, 48 ks in 49 innings) for 3 years at 13 million?

by WolvesFan03 on Aug 10, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the years concerned them with Crain...

and I can see that logic.

But they still could have had TWO effective relievers for the money they paid Capps this year.

by DJSkillz on Aug 10, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah here's what i wrote just the other day on a Minn. vikings board......

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=63&f=1554&t=7754406

Free Slowey I agree with….

~David Kahn is pretty much clueless~
Twins top 11 ~ Gibson, Sano, Hendriks, Hicks, Arcia, Salcedo, Benson, Michael, Kepler, Rosario, Gutierrez ~

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Aug 9, 2011 4:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't understand all the Pavano hate

a 4.7 ERA isn’t pretty, but it’s actually better than it was in ’09, when he had a 5.10 ERA. After that season, re-signing him was thought of as a good move.

Why? Because his peripherals suggested he was better than a 5.10 ERA.

The same thing is true this year. His k% is really low, but he keeps the ball on the ground and in the ballpark, and doesn’t walk many. His FIP, xFIP, and SIERA (4.08,4.30,4.40) all paint him as somewhere in the neighborhood of solid, if below average. Obviously the large amount of innings he’s able to rack up are valuable.

I know he’s had some ugly starts, but this isn’t a Livan Hernandez situation we have here. I think overall, he’ll be worth his contract, or slightly overpaid for the two seasons.

"Pinch-bunters don't have a ton of value, even with the Twins"

by Steven Ellingson on Aug 9, 2011 5:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah , I agree

But when he looks bad, he really looks bad. And a season like this, everyone gets blamed.

by Gunnarthor on Aug 9, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

you can't just gloss over the k percentage though...

that’s a huge warning sign. we have far too many guys in the rotation that are way too hittable right now. 3 of them. In Pavano/Duensing/Blackburn. More K ability would really help this team. As would a lack of walks. That’s another undertalked about issue that is KILLING this pitching staff this year. Across the board. It’s just weird. I believe every guy in the rotation is walking more guys than their career norms. And we’ll probably walk as many guys this year as we did all of last year within the next week or so. At that point there will still be 6 weeks left in the season! That HAS to get fixed.

by DJSkillz on Aug 10, 2011 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Non-Tender

I think Delmon’s a strong non-tender candidate. He’s been worth 1.7 WAR in his entire career. He-Gone.

by MC Thunder on Aug 9, 2011 5:26 PM EDT reply actions  

And fWar

has Delmon as a + fielder this year. Yeah right.

by MC Thunder on Aug 9, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stupid stats.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"There is absolutely no connection between me, Emo Phillips, and 'emo' music." -Emo Phillips

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Aug 9, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry, but I'm sick of Nick Blackburn at this point

and I don’t want to see Deunsing outside of the long-reliever spot next year. We need starting pitching help this offseason, no doubt.

I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...

by urluckyday on Aug 9, 2011 7:31 PM EDT reply actions  

agreed..

Duensing’s splits SCREAM relief pitcher. And it’s a need, so it’s not like he wouldn’t still be valuable there.

Blackburn has more than worn out his welcome. Unfortunately, that’s only the case with us fans, and not Gardenhire. Blackburn is the Gardenhire pitcher version of Nick Punto and Drew Butera.

by DJSkillz on Aug 10, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is depressing

This rotation isn’t going to come close to getting it done and the free agenct crop is weak. And the injuries. Ugh. Why didn’t we sell again?

Maroon and Gold Headquarters: The Daily Gopher

by PJS on Aug 9, 2011 8:21 PM EDT reply actions  

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