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Michael Cuddyer's Value

Jesse looked at Torii Hunter's comments to Jim Souhan yesterday, in which Hunter laments the two-year, $16M offer set forth by the Twins to Michael Cuddyer. I think it's fair to say that Cuddyer can fetch more than that in terms of years, total dollars, and average annual value on the free agent market, and the Twins will likely want to be competitive, but to what end?

Troy Renck of the Denver Post has stated that he believes Cuddy will be the Rockies' No. 1 free agent target this offseason, and there's a slew of other teams who could use some right-handed pop, veteran leadership, defensive versatility, and someone to wow the rookies with dazzling displays of magic. So at what point should the Twins bow out of the Cuddyer sweepstakes if it really heats up this season? I'll look at some things to consider after the jump.

Star-divide

 

I posted a lot of this in a comment on the Hunter thread last night, but I think it's worth it's own discussion, so let's dig into some things here.

Over the last six seasons, Cuddyer has a 115 OPS+ -- that's adjusted for both park and league, with 100 being an average Major League hitter. Cuddy's been about 15% better than a typical Major League hitter. That's a solid, plus bat to have in your lineup, but it's also not as elite as it may seem when compared to the rest of the Twins' paltry offense this year. There's also the fact that he's never consistently achieved strong numbers. He's had a mark of 124 three times, but there have also been an 89, a 107, and a 112 mixed in there. As he exits his prime, he's more likely to be closer to 100 than the 124 we've seen this year and in years past.

Cuddyer's 2011 OPS ranks 51st in the Majors among qualified hitters, and his OPS+ of 124 would place him in a three-way tie with Nick Swisher and Ryan Howard for 46th. Howard's a flashy, impressive name to see at first, but it's worth noting that on the season, Howard's batting just .251/.343/.489. Those are solid offensive numbers, but they're probably not what you'd expect to see immediately upon hearing the former MVP's name.

Also, Cuddyer's 2011 value has been aided by the fact that he's not in the outfield often. It's much easier to mask his defensive issues at first base than it is to mask them when he's playing right field. He looks to have improved at first this season, but he's still not much of a defender in right field, and on a three-year commitment you can only imagine that outfield defense getting worse. Eventually, he's probably best-suited to take on a role similar to Michael Young's in Texas this season -- DHing and occasionally filling in around the diamond for injuries, days off, etc. The versatility is valuable, but that value is also depressed by the fact that he won't be a defensive asset anywhere and most days wouldn't even need a glove.

If a team makes something along the lines of $11-$12M annually for 2-3 seasons -- which I think is possible -- it's not going to be financially responsible for the Twins to sign that kind of contract. Keep in mind that Mauer and Morneau are going to cost a combined $37M per year through 2013. Those contracts look incredibly unfortunate right now, but the reality is that they're there, we're stuck with them, and we have to hope for the best. However, allotting another $11-$12M per season on a utility player who really doesn't excel defensively and possesses an inconsistent track record for his age 33-35 seasons is the kind of move that can handcuff a franchise. Can the Twins really afford to tie up $48-$49M per year from 2012-13 with the hope that Cuddyer stays consistent and the M&M Boys return to form? Regardless of Cuddyer's clubhouse value and his presence in the Twin Cities community, this is still a business, and tying up 43% of a $112M payroll in wishful thinking is a tremendous risk.

If Cuddyer is willing to take a hometown discount to stay in Minnesota, or if he simply wishes to accept arbitration and remain here on a one-year deal worth $12-$13M or so, that's one thing. But shelling out the kind of money it will likely require to make a competitive bid for the tail end of his prime and beyond seems short-sighted. Hunter may think Bill Smith is cold and heartless, but in some instances, sentimentality has to be put aside for sound decision-making.

Cuddyer currently projects as a Type A free agent, so if the Twins do offer arbitration and he signs elsewhere, keep in mind the Twins would get a first or second round draft pick (depending on the team who signs him) and a supplemental rounder. If the Rockies sign him, the Twins would get their second round pick (according to current standings) since their first rounder is a Top 15 pick, and therefore protected. Other suitors I can see include the Reds, Giants, and Braves -- all of whom would net a first rounder according to the current standings.

Let's throw out a poll to see what everyone thinks, and call it a day from there.

Steve Adams also writes for MLBTradeRumors.com and MLB.com Fantasy Baseball, and contributes at 612Sports.net. You can follow him on Twitter: @Adams_Steve

Poll
What should the Twins offer Michael Cuddyer?
Two years, $16M sounds right.
187 votes
Two years, $24M. If he wants a third year, he can get it elsewhere.
85 votes
Three years, $36M and draw the line at that.
82 votes
Match the highest bidder, the Twins can't afford to lose him at any cost.
40 votes
Offer him arbitration and nothing else. Take the draft picks and be done with it.
250 votes

644 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 40 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Twins could

Lose 95 games this year. The amount of help needed is staggering with little hope in the high minors
I want him to stay but long term its better to spend on pitching and MI

by clutterheart on Sep 6, 2011 10:09 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

All of our best prospects are OFs.

Why commit to 3 years of more mediocrity? I like Cuddy, but I do not think our offer to a 34 year old OF with decent stats is a joke by any means.

Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...

by darren004 on Sep 6, 2011 10:09 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

+1

I’d love to see Benson everyday the rest of the way. He’s our Cuddy replacement.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 6, 2011 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed...

Hopefully we can run with a Span/Benson/vet OF (DeJesus?) group next year, with Revere as the 4th/defensive guy. Kubel at DH.

If Cuddy could still play 3b, I might think about it, but he can’t IMO. Let him walk and collect the picks.

by DJSkillz on Sep 6, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would offer him a contract we know he will turn down along with arbitration

It seems like that is what they will do. And no, Cuddy is not better than Valencia at third, all things considered.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 6, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

ya...

he never should have been moved from 3b in the first place really. he was improving defensively there.

by DJSkillz on Sep 6, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

we do still need a vet FA OF'er though...

even if we bring back Kubel. Counting on Span (concussion), Revere (OBP?), and Benson (readiness) is not a good strategy. Ideally Revere’s the 4th OF’er, with Kubel getting the occasional start out there as well.

I still think Kubel’s going to get paid as well. After Beltran, maybe even including Beltran, he should be the most sought after FA OF’er IMO, given his age and talent. He’s still in his prime for the next 3 years or so. Which is another reason WE should be trying to keep him instead of Cuddyer.

by DJSkillz on Sep 6, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

He doesn't play on that side of the field

Never plays LF either. I think it is the deaf ear.

by DJL44 on Sep 6, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

i know that's been the excuse...

and who knows, but I just don’t believe it I guess. He played 3b for a long time in the minors. You’d think they would have figured it out long before then.

I think it was more Gardy ignorance (and not seeing his defensive improvement) that made the switch.

by DJSkillz on Sep 6, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Completely agree with this assessment

Cuddy’s been a great guy to root for in a Twins uni, but if someone wants to pay him big bucks to play elsewhere, we should let him go. The Twins have too many holes to fill for 2012 (some created by their poor decisions last year, like MI and bullpen) and need to address some of those needs. Cuddy’s limited range in the OF won’t be improving at his age and with Mauer able to fill in at 1st base his value there is diminished. We can’t afford to overpay for a good arm, magic tricks and dimples.

The other teams could make trouble for us if they win. — Yogi Berra

by Twnzfan on Sep 6, 2011 10:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Will they keep either RF?

It seems a big gamble to let both Cuddy and Kubel walk . . . unless the brain trust just assumes the Twins are in doo-doo for a few years. Plouffe and Hughes have promise, but I think in a best-case scenario one’s going to turn out the next Cuddy and the other the next Bobby Kielty. There’s the rub. If you can land a helpful pitcher (or three) and find the magical injury fix (more bananas? Wheaties? The Babe Ruth cigars-and-hookers diet?) it’d be a shame to utterly dismantle the offense. If you’re going to stink anyway, though, you might as well give youngsters playing time and get those picks. A tough call.

Steve Goodman lives.

by twinsbrewer on Sep 6, 2011 10:54 AM EDT reply actions  

On the one hand, paying Cuddyer eight figures isn't attractive.

On the other hand, if I have to watch Ben Revere try to hit every day next year, I’ll be very unhappy. I would hope the Twins have value estimates on the entire free agent outfielder class by now, and can make decisions accordingly. Just eyeballing it there look to be several guys who could be worthwhile on mid-sized, short-term deals.

by timprov on Sep 6, 2011 11:16 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

this...

though I think you are underestimating this front office’s ineptitude.

by DJSkillz on Sep 6, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd like to keep kubel at a good price

And spend the rest on pitching. Plouffe hughes is fine for middle infield.

by ScottyD4Life on Sep 6, 2011 11:22 AM EDT via iPhone app reply actions  

If its between Kubel and Cuddy

I would go with Cuddy
Kubel will want more years, about the same amount of money and he bats left handed.
I assume Cuddy would want money but less years.

But I would like to see a good SS to anchor the Middle and let Plouffe, Valencia, Hughes and Casilla battle it out for 3B and 2B

A part of me would be interested if they let both Cuddy and Kubel walk and spend on a SS and Pitching

by clutterheart on Sep 6, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kubel figures to be a much better player than Cuddy over the next 3-4 years though...

given age. Which is WHY he may get more money and years. Cuddy’s strongly in his decline phase, whereas Kubel is in his prime.

by DJSkillz on Sep 6, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plouffe Hughes Nishi is fine for middle infield

If you don’t care about defense! Yikes it is painful watching that lot lumber after balls…

by bl4ckduck on Sep 6, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or offense

Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...

by darren004 on Sep 6, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

2 years $20M is what I would offer

So I would split the difference between your first two poll questions. The Twins are going to need 2 outfield / 1B / DH guys if they want to contend in 2012. They spent $24M on corner bats in 2011 between Delmon, Kubel, Thome and Cuddyer.

by DJL44 on Sep 6, 2011 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

i think the ship has sailed on them contending in 2012

the central isn’t very good, but the Twins need go undergo some major changes

I write everywhere. You're probably better off following me on twitter

by fetch9 on Sep 6, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

We'll see if Bill Smith agrees

I think they can contend in 2012. They need big seasons from their star players (Liriano, Mauer, Morneau) but those guys are capable of big seasons.

by DJL44 on Sep 6, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed...

I think we’d have won this crappy division this year if not for our injuries (even though we have a lot of issues) and I think we will win this division next year with just a decent offseason.

We still have more talent than any other team in this craptastic division. I mean, the Tigers have BARELY outscored their opponents this year, and they’re going to run away with it. That’s just pathetic.

by DJSkillz on Sep 6, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree also.

The injuries that have hit this team this year has been unreal. I don’t think there is a team in the majors with the injuries that we have had that would be able to contend. I’m also not ready to give up on 2012 as this team has a history of being able to bounce back from a poor years under Gardy.They did it in ’06 and ’08 after difficult years in ’05 and ’07. I think they definitely have changes to make and they really have to get back to the fundamentals that have made the Twins so good in the past, but I think getting healthy will go a long way to helping with that as well. Honestly, only time will tell.

"Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time." --Mickey Mantle

by ilovethetwins on Sep 6, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't give Gardy credit for that....

I think he should be fired. His fingerprints are all over some of these terrible moves (Hardy, Ramos, etc.) But otherwise agree. This roster is not THAT different from the roster in 2010 IMO.

by DJSkillz on Sep 6, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you offer both arbitration

I suspect Kubel gets locked up long term. I could live going year to year with Cuddy unless he takes a nice discount…

by diehardtwinsfan on Sep 6, 2011 12:29 PM EDT reply actions  

arbitration is a no-brainer for both...

but I think both are going to be tough to bring back. After Beltran (no compensation picks due to his contract) you can make a very good argument that Cuddyer and Kubel are the top 2 OF’s on the entire market.

by DJSkillz on Sep 6, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

small correction

OPS+ does not adjust between the two leagues, NYTimes had a blog on this a few years ago. A 115+ OPS in the AL is not equivalent to a 115 OPS+ in the NL so it’s better to say he’s been 15% better than an American League hitter, not a MLB hitter.

by Gunnarthor on Sep 6, 2011 1:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Love Cuddyer

But his worth isn’t worth it to this team. I say let him go and pursue B.J. Upton instead.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Sep 6, 2011 3:07 PM EDT reply actions  

In the time span of a 3 year contract

we have Span under contract the entire time plus
Revere already in the majors
Benson knocking on the door
mediocre could be place holder prospects like Tosoni, Dinkleman, Martin and more
and could be huge prospects in Rosario, Hicks, Arcia abit down the road

Thats a pretty freaking crowded outfield, I love everything Cuddy has done as a twin but it is time to part ways hes going to get 11+ for a year with arb and someone will pony at least 10 up over a couple years he just does not fit us anymore.

first-worst-first?

by holymackerel on Sep 6, 2011 4:29 PM EDT reply actions  

And Danny Ortiz

There is a strong argument for moving one of these guys for pitching this offseason. They could keep Hicks, Arcia and Benson and STILL have 2 outfield prospects other teams would covet.

Cuddyer is useful another season, partly because he can play 1B. He’s not useful in 2014.

by DJL44 on Sep 6, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

But we will have to see if they want to pay for a sub-par 1st Baseman.

I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew

by Jessy S on Sep 6, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

For a team that's already starving for power, it would be hard to let the team's leading home run hitter go.

3 years at $27MM, but that’s it. I don’t have a problem witht the 3 year, as long as it’s for a somewhat reasonable price. As mentioned above, the big time prospects are at least 3 years away.

by Brad B. on Sep 6, 2011 5:44 PM EDT reply actions  

He has not hit one since August 3rd.

I think we may be able to find someone to hit 16 HR next year for less than 11 mil.

Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...

by darren004 on Sep 6, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

"Reasonable" is relative though...

A $9M salary is reasonable based on Cuddy’s 2011 numbers, but will those numbers be there in 2012? Maybe, but it’s highly doubtful for 2014. Nine million looks a lot less reasonable if you get 2010’s numbers and his standard OF defense.

On the other side, $9M probably isn’t reasonable to Cuddyer and his agent. He’s making $10.5M this year and has put up a strong season, leading the Twins in most major categories. You’d be hard-pressed to get a Major League agent to concede that a $1.5M paycut on his client’s average annual salary is “reasonable,” and barring him being OK with a hometown discount, Cuddy will think so too.

This will be probably be the last sizable free agent deal he gets. An extra $6M-$9M currently represents about 1/3 of what Cuddyer has currently made in his career. It’d be a pretty significant sum to him.

One thing I should’ve mentioned, Cuddyer’s agent, Casey Close, is the same one who represented Derek Jeter last offseason. Don’t expect negotiations to be easy.

by Steve Adams on Sep 6, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly...

and he’s going to get paid on the market as a RH power bat in the OF. Not many of those out there. He’s probably the 3rd best OF on the market, considering all factors, after Beltran and Kubel. I wouldn’t doubt he could get 4 years at $40M. But regardless, he’s not worth it to us for 3 years either. Benson and Revere are both ready by the end of 2013 at the latest. Span’s under one of the best contracts in baseball through 2015. Kubel HOPEFULLY will be re-signed, and at least one, if not more, of Hicks/Morales/Arcia should be ready by sometime in 2013.

by DJSkillz on Sep 6, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plouffe

Could Plouffe be the next Cuddy. Have him play OF with Revere and Span. Maybe when Benson comes on board, you have him move to DH. Plus, have him move about at 2B/SS/3B. Plus keep Luke Hughes around as DH/1B/2B/3B.

It will be a different team. Can Hughes and Plouffe replace Kubel.Cuddyer for power? I think so.

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Sep 7, 2011 12:15 AM EDT reply actions  

Hughes is a utility man IMO...

Plouffe may or may not be a good 2b or SS (depends on his defense and if he can improve) but his bat isn’t a plus in the OF, IMO.

by DJSkillz on Sep 7, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

ugh

wow, it’s really sinking in that this team has problems: Trevor Plouffe and Ben Revere as your starting corner outfielders? Revere, with career OBP and SLG both below .300, and Plouffe, a AAAA type guy? Ask yourself: does this look like the lineup that will finally beat the Yankees in the playoffs?

Span at least is good half the time, but I’d feel a lot better if he wasn’t stillstruggling with a concussion.

I have to admit, this is not a team to invest in win-now, last gasp veterans like Cuddyer. But while it may not be worth investing in his final payday years, that doesn’t mean losing him will be pretty.

I think Kubel is a lot better bet to stay productive for three years than Cuddyer, but I don’t know if we can afford him either. Management has never seemed to like him as much as Cuddyer anyway.

Let’s just hope some of those young outfielders in the pipeline strike gold in a few years.

by by jiminy on Sep 7, 2011 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

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