Twinkie Town 2012 Top 50...Round 31!
by roger13 on Jan 16, 2012 1:12 PM EST
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PrintThe Twins 2010 Rule V pick, Scott Diamond was the winner of the Thirtieth spot in this year's poll. This past December's Rule V pick, Terry Doyle was second with 34 votes. Reliever Andrew Albers was third (28), Corey Williams fourth (23) and Matt Summers fifth (21).
For the next round, we will bring back former first round pick Matt Bashore. After having Tommy John surgery and missing the 2010 season, Bashore returned last year to Elizabethton where he was limited to only a few innings. His velocity was back to 91-92 on his way towards the 96 he was hitting when he left the University of Indiana.
This round will remain open through noon, Tuesday.
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I like Alberts numbers last year
wish he was Invited to S.T. Might need more innings to prove his worth.
I like Albers as well...
but are Jacobson, Watts and Pugh not prospects any longer?
Good points
Albers is a great story, but, like DeVries, is he really a prospect?
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Albers and Perez
I’d say Albers is still a prospect. He continues to advance through the system, doesn’t he? Andrew has a career 1.80 ERA and deserves a look. Hope he pitches in AAA this season. Although he is pretty old at 26, he could be a late bloomer since he only started baseball at age 24 (7 innings as a 22 year old don’t count). Let’s just hope that they don’t treat him like they have treated Anthony Slama. Both of the guys have great minor league track records, but have spent little time in the majors (Slama only). Doesn’t make sense not to give them a chance with a mediocre bullpen.
Jairo Perez came off of a spectacular 2011 campaign in single A. He hit 15 HRs, 11 SBs, and owned a .337 BA. He has played LF, 3B, 2B, 1B, and SS. Slightly below average defense with a .946 Fielding %, but makes up with his versatility. Could definitely be a 5 tool guy later on despite not having much time as a 23 year old. But you also have to remember can take outfielders a long time to develop and lots of patience. Denard Span was 24 when he cracked the 25 man roster. I love the potential with him and I hope he skips High A and goes directly to AA. He’s got my vote. Why isn’t he getting any others? I certainly thought he was better than Tyler Robertson, an older, marginal relief prospect of lesser value. Please people. Vote for upside!
It's too easy to say everybody has upside below
A+ or AA ball, the numbers are all inflated. It’s hard to see the real value, so I have to look at the age of the player at the lower levels. Also, look at who the Twins have advanced and who is in front of the player (can he advance). As far as infielders go, it seems the Twins are only interested in advancing to Minnesota, Shortstops. Valencia and Hughes are rare, and Hughes could be considered a Middle Infielder.
by b1 on Jan 16, 2012 9:41 PM EST up reply actions
That's pretty optimistic
“has played LF, 3B, 2B, 1B, and SS. Slightly below average defense with a .946 Fielding %”
To me that says he can’t really field anywhere.
Yes
All three are prospects but players like Summers and Roberts are better prospects and Williams probally has more upside
by clutterheart on Jan 17, 2012 8:41 AM EST up reply actions
+1
The line between prospect and roster filler is open to interpretation. I define it according to upside. What are the odds the player has more than a cup of coffee at the majors at some point in his career? The odds are in Summers’ favor for sure. Roberts and Williams have pretty good odds.
If the odds are slim, I count that player as a roster filler. Given his stuff and age, Albers is a roster filler. I’ve been wrong before, though. Drew Butera was a roster filler and he’s had two full years at the majors.
The best stories are the ones where a player beats the odds. I root for guys like Albers. But I try not to let my natural affinity for long shots cloud my judgement.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
When will people actually stop and look at these guys before they vote?
I’ve been voting for Roberts for 7 rounds now
How he isn’t on is a travisty….. He was hurt half the year and still put up decent stats, if he ends up hitting for any power (which i think he will) Even if its marginal power, he’s going to be at least a Rene Tosoni type in this system.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/photo-logan-morrison-bryan-petersen-share-tub-drink-043548597.html
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jan 16, 2012 11:22 PM EST reply actions
Maybe people do
and they just don’t agree with your conclusions. If you can’t cope with disagreement, buy an island and become a dictator.
by That'sWhatSheSaid on Jan 17, 2012 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
He does have a point
And I would love to see some people explain why they are voting for Doyle / Diamond.
by clutterheart on Jan 17, 2012 8:47 AM EST up reply actions
Doyle and Diamond are AAAA players
Doyle at least has a decent chance of sticking with the Twins all year, based mostly on the Rule 5 situation. Then again, that was Diamond’s situation last year and he looks to spend most of this year, and most of the rest of his career, at AAA.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
People are voting for the best prospect
How they define prospect is up to them, and may be different from how others may define the term. Some people look at ceiling without regard to the likliehood of reaching that ceiling. Some people look harder at the likliehood that a player will make the majors, without regard to ceiling.
All opinions are valid. To me, saying that the poll does not agree with ones opinion makes it invalid is borderline childish. Its like fighting over chocolate versus vanilla or Mary Anne versus Ginger. Again, all opinions are valid.
And not that anyone would care, but I voted for Williams.
by That'sWhatSheSaid on Jan 17, 2012 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
I respect your opinion, but I disagree
We are not merely talking about favorite ice cream flavors here. There are objective measures of the likelihood a player will reach his upside, and what that upside is. There is also a margin for error. We are free to disagree within the margin of error. Disagreeing outside the margin of error is tantamount to not doing the research. People are free to vote outside the margins. But it does not make their vote as valid as those inside the margins. It’s perfectly appropriate to call into question votes outside of the margins. Too many of them invalidates the list as just a popularity contest voted on by uniformed fans.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I also respect your opinion but I also disagree
You focued on the ice cream and not the previous paragraph. People who vote for Diamond are most likely looking at closeness to the majors as opposed to ceiling. No one ever defined the term “prospect” so we all have to use our own best judgement as to what it actually means. Diamond may have a better MLB career than Roberts, if Roberts flames out. Does that make him a better prospect at this point? I’m not certain, as it’s subject to interpretation since it is not defined.
As to research, it is possible that the box scores don’t always tell the entire story. Call me an “old-head”, but I sould still prefer to see them all actually play the game. That doesn’t help me with the younger guys, as I am geographically constrained to seeing the Rock Cats and Red Wings.
At the risk of sounding snarky, I fail to see how the thirty-fornicating-first prospect can ever be that far outside the margins.
That being said, I still think every vote is valid. I would hate to see next year’s poll restricted to only “informed” fans.
by That'sWhatSheSaid on Jan 17, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
It's not just box scores and numbers
There are all kinds of resources that talk about upside (BA, BP, Sickels, RotoWorld, etc.). According to most of the ones I’ve read, neither Diamond nor Doyle are considered much of prospects. Guys who get drafted in the Rule 5 are boderline prospects. If their teams can’t find room for them on the 40-man roster, it’s not a good sign. Teams like the Yankees tend to trade real prospects before they run out of option years. Teams like the Royals protect their prospects. Only the guys who don’t warrant protection get drafted. Only a small fraction of those ever amount to anything.
In general, people tend to focus too heavily on how close a guy is to the majors. Some guys, especially college pitchers, move fast through the system, while other guys move very slowly. The most likely course, given all the research I’ve read, is that Diamond spends two more years at AAA with occasional call ups for injury replacements and then gets released to make room for real prospects, like Summers. Meanwhile Summers establishes himself as a starter in the majors three years from now according to this schedule: 2012—Beloit and FM; 2013 NB and Roch; 2014 Roch and MN.
As far as the numbers, perhaps we wouldn’t be talking about real prospects at this point if we didn’t have so many roster fillers in the top 30.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I've said unough so I'll stop (after this)
Its your opinion that people tend to focus too heavily on how close a guy is to the majors. From reading you for quiet a while, I would be suprised if you felt your opinion was always right.
All I’m saying is to let people vote the way they want to. If you restrict voting to only those people who think like you do, you certainly will be more happy with the results. My argument is that the results will, over the long run, not be as good.
by That'sWhatSheSaid on Jan 17, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Fine
I was mostly responding to your critique of SHS, who has valid concerns about this list, imho.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
What fun would it be to just copy
BA,BP,Sickels,RotoWorld. Over the last couple years, from what I’ve seen, the voters are very informed. You like a high ceiling, by Number #25, I’m looking for players to get a cup of Coffee in the Bigs. If Summers is only in Beloit this year, he has next year to move up 20 spots, like Robertson, no big deal. Also, I’ve seen Dean listed in someones top Ten, I’m not going to call everyone uninformed.
Roberts, Summers,
Albers will never see the major leagues throwing 85-87 MPH,
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/photo-logan-morrison-bryan-petersen-share-tub-drink-043548597.html
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jan 16, 2012 11:23 PM EST reply actions
Terry Doyle!
I can’t wait for the “Juuuuuuust a bit outside!” meme!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 17, 2012 11:41 AM EST reply actions
I was referring to Peter Boyle
From the movies Joe, Taxi Driver, and Young Frankenstein, and the hit TV show Everybody Loves Raymond
But HA! Harry Doyle is somehow even funnier!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 18, 2012 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
A.J. and I talked about Summers...
…he sees Matt as being similar to Jesse Crain. Summers will likely remain in the bullpen, is built and throws somewhat like Crain. Summers is a guy who is made for the eighth inning, throwing all out with some pretty good stuff. His numbers at ETon last year confirmed both his role and his big strikeout potential. I have been voting for him the last five six rounds or so. Pesonally, I think he should have been in out top 25.
Doesn't Bashore have the most upside?
I’m not crazy about relief pitcher, unless they can move up to AA or AAA quickly.
by b1 on Jan 17, 2012 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think so...
…In my opinion, I see Summers as our next Jesse Crain. Bashore could become Glen Perkins, maybe even a starter. I just think that Matt needs another year to put his injury behind him. If he does, I may agree with you.
I also have been someone who has valued relievers.
I use to until I saw that happened to
Slama,Delaney and a couple others. I didn’t agree with Burnett going up and Gut never has lived up to his billing (yet). Plus I know that guys like Duensing, Manship and other starters get sent to relief, sometimes over guys that have good relief numbers. I don’t remember Crain coming up through the system, but not many make it.
by b1 on Jan 17, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
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