Who Will Be the Twins' 13th Man?
by Jesse on Jan 19, 2012 10:26 AM EST
in Speculation
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In any given season, the Twins carry 12 pitchers on their 25 man roster: five starters for the rotation and seven relief pitchers. You can also count off, relatively easily, which position players will make the trip north from Florida at the end of March. Here's our list as of today.
Catchers (2): Joe Mauer, Ryan Doumit
Infielders (6): Justin Morneau, Alexi Casilla, Jamey Carroll, Danny Valencia, Tsuyoshi Nishioka, Luke Hughes
Outfielders (4): Denard Span, Ben Revere, Josh Willingham, Trevor Plouffe
With 24 roster spots taken, who gets that 25th spot? Candidates after the jump.
At 28, we know what we're getting with Sweet Drew: a light-hitting, mediocre catcher who's familiar with the pitchingstaff. He's a known quantity who does whatever the Twins ask of him, and there's value in that. But I have to believe that the liklihood of his making the active roster will have more to do with A) Mauer's health, and B) whether the Twins are forced to pencil in Doumit at another position on a regular basis. And whether or not he and Pavstache get caught while lighting things on fire, obviously.
Parm turns 24 next month, and after his showing last September I know there are a few people with itchy trigger fingers who want him to make the roster straight out of spring training. Like Butera, however, the liklihood of that happening is tied into other players more than his own merits of performance in March. If Morneau needs to be protected, and as a result has to be the team's everyday designated hitter, then Parmelee might be that 13th position player. But right now the Twins want him to play everyday, want to protect him as much as they can in terms of development, and the best way to ensure Parmelee gets both of those things is to give him the first base job in Rochester.
Minnesota's next Joe turns 24 in May, and along with Dustin Martin, Steve Pearce, Brian Dinkelman, Matt Carson and Wilkin Ramirez is one of six reasons why Tosoni is likely to get that 13th spot with the Twins. The Red Wings will have their choice of outfielders, and while it might be a luxury for the Twins to sign a veteran for that defensive replacement in the late innings, there's just not room in Rochester for Tosoni.
Tosoni is still just 25, and while he's another left-handed bat he has the most experience of any player on the 40-man roster in terms of a fourth or fifth outfielder. And like I just mentioned, the Twins (and Tosoni) are at a point where everyone needs him to step into the role. There were times that he looked overmatched last summer, but he also showed flashes of promise and came up with a few big hits. He's not the most complete player, and his ceiling isn't as high as Ben Revere's, but he's capable of playing all three outfield positions and that might be enough.
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depends on DH
I think the last spot depends on if they are expecting to put Doumit at DH somewhat regularly. If that is true, they will need Butera as 3rd catcher. I guess I’d rather use Willingham at DH, then if Doumit hits enough to play reguarly, use him in the outfield so he can move to catcher if necessary.
That's the issue.
That smart money is on Tosoni, but with all of the health concerns surrounding Mauer and Morneau, anything that happens to those two throws a wrench into the works and suddenly guys like Parmelee and Butera are in play.
True
If the Wrist issue keeps Justin Morneau inactive, he can go to the DL to start the season, Ryan Doumit can play first, and Drew Butera can be the backup catcher. The problem is that Gardy has a wealth of options including Joe Mauer at first so Parmelee is best served at playing in Rochester. The only other person with a chance at a roster spot will be Joe Benson and that is if Denard Span can’t play or is traded for another starting pitcher.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Gardy will take Butera over any of these guys
That’s why I’m rooting for them to sign a cheap bench bat and push all of these guys to AAA. Vlad Guerrero for $750k would be a great signing.
If they carry three catchers, every other bench player needs a poisition
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Right
Sign a bat and make Doumit the backup C. Right now they can afford to carry Butera because the rest of the roster is pretty flexible. Carroll, Nishi and Casilla can cover both middle infield positions. Hughes can cover 2B, 3B, 1B. Plouffe can play infield in a pinch and the outfield corners. Revere can cover CF for Span. Even Mauer has experience playing 1B now.
If Butera is around we’ll see at least one lineup with Mauer at 1B, Doumit at DH and Butera playing C. I would like to prevent that possibility.
I'm in favor of anything that keeps Butera off the MLB roster
The way Ryan has spoken of late, Doumit is the backup catcher. Hopefully, even if they don’t sign another bat, he has more influence over rosters than Smith did. ’Cause I agree, left to his own devices, Gardy will carry at least three catchers.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Or do they go with 13 pitchers?
I could see Gardy doing that instead.
I doubt they break camp with 13 pitchers
If they have to go with 13 pitchers during the year, something went wrong.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
It's a bad idea
Especially with all the off days to start the season. I could still see Gardy doing that.
Again, hopefully Ryan takes a firmer hand with the roster
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
More likely scenario
They sign a bench bat free agent who makes the team… and Gardy decides to start with 11 pitchers so he can squeeze Butera onto the roster.
It all depends on Justin Morneau's health.
If he is as healthy as an ox, then I can see a situation where we only need 11 pitchers, but if we need to put him on the DL for any reason, then we are carrying 12 pitchers.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
I think you're being too wishful
Even though he struggled last year, I could still see Guerrero getting at least $1.5 million.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller.
by Andrew Bryz-Gornia on Jan 19, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Lots of DH guys are still available
Damon, Pena, Matsui, Lee, Kotchman, Betemit, Guerrero, Fukudome, Magglio, Cody Ross.
There’s also some AAAA guys I’d give a chance to before sticking Tosoni back out there – I bet hometown kid Dan Johnson would sign for the minimum.
And after all this,
You have to wonder if Jimmers could be hitting taters for the Tigers. Note, V-Mart got injured recently and could be lost for the season.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Yes I do
But I think the Tigers can swing that trade for Thome and not give up too much. Plus it would be a better situation for all involved.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
True
Teams are sometimes so desperate they do stuff before they think. Biggest examples are the Rockies rape of the Cleveland minor league system at the Non-waiver trade deadline last season, and Bill Smith trading Wilson Ramos for Matt Capps in 2010.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
I went with Parmelee as well
I could see Tosoni and Parmelee making the team. Since we don’t have a regular DH, that role can cycle through several regulars. When Morneau DHs, we’ll need Parmelee at first. When Willignham DHs, I could see Tosoni in right.
Here’s my predicted bench on opening day: Doumit, Nishi, Plouffe, Parmelee, Tosoni. With eight regular position players and the DH floating. Hughes rides the Rochester shuttle in case of injury or Nishi ineffectiveness. If Gardy wants an extra infielder, Tosoni rides the Roch shuttle.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Tosoni or Butera
Gardy likes to go with the known quantity unless they’re in the doghouse.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 19, 2012 10:54 AM EST reply actions
Are we sure Nishioka is going north?
I suppose he has value off the bench as a pinch-runner. But if the team has any hope left for him shouldn’t he play every day?
Steve Goodman lives.
If not Nishi, who?
We need three middle infielders. The org doesn’t count Hughes or Plouffe as middle infielders, but as guys who could fill in there in a pinch. I suppose Dozier could push him. But Ryan has said he wants to give Nishi another chance. And with what they have invested, I think they have to. If he fails again, Dozier is probably the guy, unless they acquire a veteran.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I don't think so, but
who would want to put Hughes on their 40man roster? He’s a AAAAA type guy. He’s not a starter and he’s not a bench player.
+1
I would be shocked if they don’t keep him if he’s out of options.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Hughes is out of options, as is Plouffe
…So Hughes will be with the Twins or another big league club.
Unlike some of you, I see Hughes as a solid second baseman who can also play some third and first, if needed. That gives Gardy a backup for Valencia if needed as well as at second, first and DH. When Carroll needs a few games off, Casilla can move to short. The player I see sent down should be Nishioka.
I like him at second
But I don’t think Gardy does. He doesn’t have the range or speed that Gardy looks for at that position. Offensively, he’d be fine.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
You only need one back-up infielder
I think Gardy and the $$$$ paid Nish will be the back-up. I like Hughes, but he has no position.
by b1 on Jan 19, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
He has as many positions as Cuddy did
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Well played
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
OT
Former Twin, Orlando Cabrera is retiring.
Thanks for the memories in 2009, O-Cab!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 19, 2012 11:01 AM EST reply actions
To start the season, I think you're right
Gardy just loooooves that third catcher. Because if something happens to one while the other is DHing, then the pitcher would have to hit and that would be so much worse than Butters hitting and . . .
Ugh. We’ve all been through this before. LSS, I think he’s in, dangit.
Steve Goodman lives.
by twinsbrewer on Jan 19, 2012 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
I'd call him Punto's replacement for Gardy
But then I remember that Punto actually had value, and was worthwhile as a utility guy. Butera is just unbelievably bad.
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Jan 19, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
He does crouch low as Pavano likes
no homo
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
If Spring Training comes and goes with everyone healthy and doing well
I’d go with Tosoni. If Morneau is struggling, I’d go with Parmelee. Who will it probably be regardless? Butera.
Wow
Until seeing it written down, I had forgotten how ugly our infield was.
You sir, are a mouthful.
by Att. Bob Loblaw on Jan 19, 2012 11:44 AM EST reply actions
Nah
Nishii’s kinda cute, Hughes is OK, same with Casilla. Dunno about Carroll, but — ick! OLD! Creepy!
Steve Goodman lives.
by twinsbrewer on Jan 19, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
haha that's actually kind of what I was thinking of posting when I first read this..
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Jan 19, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Go ahead and leave this country
Japan needs doctors.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
DO NOT ENGAGE JESSY S.......MUST STOP!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO..
……………………………………………………………………………………………………
CAN"T!………………………
…………………………….STOP!…………………………………
….
WHAT in the WORLD does that have to do with that comment???
…
Sorry guys I couldn’t stop……
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
yeah, I'm kind of lost because of that last comment of his...
also were we having a protest against ..you know who… or something? that’s kind of what I thought when I read your comment… haha I’m so out of it right now, sorry…
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Jan 19, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Let me help you find the way
I was just making fun of your love for foreign players :)
OT: When is your next offseason (fake game) going to be posted? That can take your mind off your parents for now.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
haha yeah...
Well i was going to write one soon but then I now have a ton of homework and really shouldn’t have taken the time to come on here but I needed to take a break plus I can’t help but come o Twinkietown when it’s my homepage and I need to go on google docs….
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Jan 22, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
OH MY GOD YOU TRIED TO STOP DON'T BE HURT!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 19, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Agreed
Sorry I put Go Twins! in the hospital :) Hope his arm is doing ok.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Wait.. wha...?
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Jan 22, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
except I just looked at it closer...
Hughes is more than OK, mostly because of his accent…… :)
"The problem with baseball is that it is not played year round" -Gaylord Perry
by twinsgirl197 on Jan 19, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
It's Butera
There should be next to no expectation that Doumit is a back-up catcher.
Is this who we think or who we want?
It seems like it is the latter, and if so, anyone who voted for Butera should be banned.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
We all go back to where Butera belongs
Is that really what you want? (This is all a song reference, BTW.)
Steve Goodman lives.
by twinsbrewer on Jan 19, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought it was who did i think it would be.
Not who I wanted, per say. I do think Drew is the back up catcher and Doumit is 3rd string. unless Mauer is moved out for any particular reason. Then Butera is still backup.
This just boggles my mind. You could put together a list of 25 AAA catchers and throw a dart at it and get a guy who is twice the hitter Butera is.
I really do not think his defense is so great that it makes up for being a worse hitter than many pitchers, I see no reason to carry a third catcher unless Joe is unhealthy, and if so, there are certainly better options.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
You forgot Justin Morneau when hurting
Gardy will just move Mauer over to 1st and have Doumit do the catching with Butera as the backup.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
That's just crazy
At least half of Mauer’s value is in his catching. You don’t move a gold glover off his natural position and replace him with one of the worst defensive catchers in baseball.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Tsk
You forgot to read the subject line.
I said when Justin Morneau is hurting. In a normal situation, I am sure that Gardy would want Mauer behind the plate every four days unless Ryan Doumit becomes Jason Marquis’ personal catcher then it would be every three days. Everybody knows that Drew Butera and Carl Pavano go well together.
As for the vote, I know Parmelee is winning that vote, but he needs to be in Rochester where depth at 1st isn’t that great as it is in the majors.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Nope.
If Morneau is hurting and Mauer is healthy, Joe will stay behind the plate and Parmelee will be this team’s everyday first baseman.
But we just can't put Morneau on the DL just for hurting
And that is for the the cases where it is a day to day situation. I am talking about a situation like where he has a slight bruise on his throwing hand while running the bases and sits out three games. In that situation, I am sure that either Mauer or Doumit handle first while the other is catching.
However I do see where you two are coming from in this situation, but Justin Morneau will have to be put on the DL for Chris Parmelee to become this team’s 1st baseman. An ankle sprain will do it.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Seems pretty clear to me how it was stated:
Who would you give that 13th position player roster spot to?
by twinscrazy_german on Jan 19, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Right, so any votes for Butera seem idiotic.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
People are channeling Gardy
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jan 19, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why idiotic?
I voted for Butera and I read the criteria clearly.
You need a legit, dependable back-up catcher with the other two candidates untrustworthy from a health standpoint. Sure I’d want the best hitter possible, but you’re constructing a roster. Why be irresponsible and unrealistic?
I am a fan. I enjoy watching baseball quite a lot. I do not enjoy watching him hit at all.
He is a waste of a roster space. Hell he is a waste of a 40 man roster space. The signings of guys like Carroll, Doumit and Willingham may not make the Twins a WS contender or anything, but at least it will restrict the number of wasted ABs the Twins had last year. At least make the Twins a much better team to watch. At the end of last year, this team was a hard team to watch. Any ABs removed from guys like Nishioka, Tosoni and Butera is a good thing, at least in my opinion.
And lastly, like I said, you could throw a dart at a list of 25 AAA catchers and hit a guy more valuable than Butera. A third catcher as poor as him need not be on a 25 man roster. If Mauer gets hurt, sure, but until then, God no.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
Not the point
Yes I agree that Butera is a terrible hitter and I agree he should have a roster spot and that the Twins could do several different other options better in that spot.
That’s not the point.
The point is that anyone who thinks that a team starting a season with a catching core of Mauer/Doumit is kidding themselves. Doumit is an awful catcher who I’m expecting for a start here and there behind the plate, but for the most part will be a DH/OF/1B.
So if the selection was Steve Holm, Rene Rivera, Mike Redmond, etc. It would be for that selection.
If Mauer is healthy, he should catch all but once a week. Maybe some weeks 2 times.
Doumit, while not a great catcher, is not so awful that he cannot catch 1-2 times a week, which means we should not need a 3rd catcher unless Mauer gets hurt. Butera is a waste of a roster spot, and even if we needed a 3rd catcher for some reason, there is no reason it needs to be him.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
If you mean do I think Gardy will get his way and stupidly keep him? Yes.
Do I want that to happen? GOD NO.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
That Mauer/Doumit is going to suffice at catcher
Because I really don’t think that’s realistic at this point. But who knows. That’s why we have Spring Training.
I think Gardy likes Butera personally, but I don’t think that alone will him the spot. Dependability defensively matters.
True
This is just Thursday speculation written by Jesse to get us talking. It is hard to say how spring training may turn out. Ryan Doumit might be too awful to keep on the roster or he might push Joe Mauer out of the number one spot at catcher, and we get to say good riddance to Drew Butera.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
You don't think Mauer and Doumit will suffice at catcher?
Why? Why is that not realistic? If Mauer gets hurt again, which is sadly possible, then sure, but there is no reason to keep Butera for that reason alone. If Mauer gets hurt, any catcher can be signed and brought up and bring as much to the table as Butera.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
1 year/$3million
If Doumit could sell himself as that back-up catcher or someone who could be relied upon healthwise, he would have yielded quite a bit more.
How much do teams pay for backup catchers?
If he was healthier or a better catcher he’d be a starter somewhere else. I think $3M for a backup catcher is quite a bit of money.
Yeah, I think backup catchers are cheap
Doumit is kind of an odd case, too, because he’s an offense-first guy who’s poor defensively – backup catchers simply aren’t that way most of the time.
For what it’s worth, the Twins never paid Mike Redmond as much as one million dollars a year.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Doumit
If he’s healthy and himself this year he’s effectively going to replace Jason Kubel with the flexibility to catch. That’s worth more than $3 million. I expect Doumit to be more of a DH/1B/OF. If he catches once a week, great. I just think it’s a little pie in the sky and I would imagine the organization shares my realism.
They signed R Towles for a minor league deal too. Towles is also offense first, but he can get in front of a slider in the dirt he’d be my pick over Butera. It’s not that I want Butera, it’s more that a team would be crazy to have such health liabilities at the position that’s the toughest to replace.
Except they keep saying
He’s the backup catcher.
And I don’t know hey people keep talking about him in the outfield. He’s barely played there and I don’t hunk that’s going to change.
+1
He played 1B and the outfield for a national league team because he was one of its best hitters, sad as that sounds for Pirates fans.
Ryan has repeatedly said he’s the backup catcher. He might not be as good defensively as Drew Butera but he’s not much worse than Mike Redmond, and he was just fine.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
He's generally flat-out brutal defensively at C.
He looked better last year before his injury, meaning he was merely really, really bad. The chasm between him and McHenry defensively made casual Pirates fans believe the Fort was a legitimate MLB starter..
And he was flat-out horrifying at first base when they tried him there, btw. It was an exciting couple games when they ran him out there, heady with anticipation… and he delivered in all the wrong ways.
by tobynotjason on Jan 20, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
On what are you basing these conclusions?
Game threads? Not very reliable. Every WP gets blamed on the catcher.
I find it hard to believe that Terry Ryan would insist on a guy as his backup catcher who is “horrible”. His FIP last year was -1. That says mediocre to me, not horrible.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
For one, there's Brandon Warne's write up in Fangraphs
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/ryan-doumit-twins-ink-one-year-pact/
“He also isn’t particularly adept defensively, as he grades out negatively in pretty much every defensive measure, including a glut of passed balls and only a 25 percent throw-out rate for attempted base thieves. Certainly some of that can fall on the pitchers, but I’ve yet to see a glowing scouting report on Doumit’s defense.”
What's up Aaron Gleeman
“Ideally he’d see minimal action behind the plate, but if Joe Mauer spends time on the disabled list again and his backup is forced into an extended role Doumit will allow the Twins to sacrifice defense for offense with a better alternative than Drew Butera. And if Mauer can stay mostly healthy the Twins can keep Butera in a limited backup role and plug Doumit into the lineup as a corner outfielder, first baseman, and designated hitter.”
I question that analysis
Guys who catch wild staffs are bad framers. It’s not really their fault, it’s the pitchers’.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Agreed
The Pittsburgh pitching staff is poor.
I don’t know what Regis Phiblin thinks the Pirates will be a good team one of these years, with the exception of joke-baiting David Letterman.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Butera is not a legit backup
He is dependable. I.e, you know what you’ll get. An average defender who hits like a pitcher. If he does make the team, I can see Gardy having him catch Marquis, in which case it would be better to have a DH for Butera and let Marquis hit.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I am sure we can tweak the rules somewhat.
Maybe do it in Spring Training for laughs and against a National League ballclub.
Just don’t do it in front of Joe West or he might go stark-raving mad and destroy Target Field.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Would prefer Parmelee/Tosoni, will be Butera
If Doumit and Mauer get more than one or two starts a week at DH between the two of them, then Butera will be on the roster. Otherwise, I’d like to see Parmelee or Tosoni to allow Morneau or Willingham to spend more time at DH.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
If Gardy has his way, it's Butera
He’s shown that he’s completely fine with having 3 catchers on the roster, especially when one of them becomes at the very least a semi-regular DH. All because he doesn’t want to have to risk having his pitcher bat for half a game or less.
I’m okay with keeping Gardy as manager, but this is one of his tics that just bugs the hell out of me. If I was manager and Mauer got hurt while Doumit was the DH, I’d be okay with losing the DH and having my pitcher bat for the half-game or whatever by moving Doumit to C, as long as it meant that I had a more capable hitter on the bench than Butera. I feel that it’s a waste if you have someone taking up a roster spot just for emergencies, and that’s mostly what Butera would be doing with Doumit already on the team. This way, after Mauer gets hurt, you just call up Butera after the game.
I picked Tosoni for the 13th man. I’ve already outlined why it shouldn’t be Butera, and I agree that Parmelee should start the season in the minors. Joe Benson hasn’t even played in Triple-A yet, so I bet the Twins would send him there to get some seasoning. Benson would be a midseason call-up anyway, as would Parmelee. Tosoni might not be the next Kubel, but he should be a decent replacement, and he’ll probably be a better defensive 4th OF than Plouffe.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller.
by Andrew Bryz-Gornia on Jan 19, 2012 1:19 PM EST reply actions
Seriously
It has happened what, once in his tenure as manager? It was the 2nd game of a DH in Chicago and I think Redmond got hit in the head with a bat.
Agreed as well. I am wondering if this is his only his call any more or if Ryan has at least some control over this.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
Butera will be on the roster...
I think the question will be Joe Benson, Hughes, or Plouffe… 2 of these 3. The Twins don’t care if Butera gets regular at bats but they sure care if these 3 do.
Benson has the best tools in the OF to get playing time, either late in games or as a semi-regular.
Hughes needs to play everyday somewhere and it won’t be here unless there is an injury or Nishioka sucks terribly again and gets sent down.
Plouffe impressed a little with his bat but was so mediocre in the OF that I don’t think the organization is chomping at the bit to see him out there. Obviously SS is out of the question.
I don’t see Doumit playing any catcher this year unless Mauer goes down (which probably will happen, I guess). Doumit’s injury history, lack of skills behind the plate, limited arm, etc. will keep him at DH and maybe… maybe… 1B.
twitter@al_damlo
Luke Hughes will make opening day
He is out of options. If you scenario were to be the case, the final spot would be down to Plouffe vs Benson.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
13th man in?
I have to admit that it is a tough call. Tosoni, Benson, Butera, and Parmalee.
I like Parmalee because he shows power and his fielding seems really good too.
I like Tosoni as the extra outfielder, because he can play any of the outfield positions and he does have some good base running sense.
Benson Is ok but I really think one more year in Rochester is probably best.
Butera I believe is a better defensive catcher than Mauer, but I wish he could hit the ball.
I guess it will all depend this year on who gets injured and then the call ups start again.
"Butera I believe is a better defensive catcher than Mauer"
Is he? Really?
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
by darren004 on Jan 19, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Unrelated discusion:
Who thinks we should have signed ageless wonder, Jamie Moyer instead of Marquis? Me!
"I wanted to do it because it's fun, it's fun to do bad things and drive into a car."
by PurplePeopleEaters on Jan 19, 2012 3:15 PM EST reply actions
I'd do it at least to have Moyer as a clubhouse figure
He is just a cool guy. Still, I stand by Oswalt as the best rotation selection.
When I was a kid, I would cover a blue futon with a white blanket, prop it up with a fan set on high, and pretend it was the Metrodome. That should tell you a lot.
by MarshalltheIrish on Jan 19, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
I voted for Tosoni
I believe he will have a breakout year in 2012. There is no way in hell that Plouffe will start the season on the 25 man roster unless he is out of options. Right now he is in Gardy’s doghouse and the only way for him to play even on an limited basis is to be in Rochester.
With that said, Drew Butera will be on the roster to start the season, but he will be limited to catching Carl Pavano. When Pavano pitches, I have no trouble with Butera in the lineup because it means that the opposing score will be low and the Twins could win a game without needing too much offensive firepower.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
At this point
Plouffe would be easier to send down than Luke Hughes due to his bad defense, but you are right. Nishi would have to be considered first because his high cost would deter other teams from picking him up from waivers. The only way I can see him getting claimed is if another team has an emergency at short or second and needs him on their 25 man roster for opening day. Frankly I don’t think Nishi has any options either, but he came over via a “free agent auction.”
What is your take on this Roger13?
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Nishioka should have options
His contract probably says they can’t offer arbitration when it is complete but I don’t think they can negotiate away option years.
According to a recent depth chart done by MLB Daily Dish
Nishi is scheduled for arbitration after this contract is done. I link to that chart in the fanshots section.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
So with our training staff....
What 25 guys actually go North after Meat Grinder Spring Training
I got my money on all those fillers the Twins have been signing to minor league deals…I figure there are at least 25 non-roster invitees by now, right?
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
At the beginning of the season,
Rene Tosoni gets the pick. If Morneau can’t play first and is forced to DH or retire, you call Parmelee up.
Follow me on Twitter at @twincitiesbball
Ugh
Rene Tosoni was completely overmatched last year. There are a dozen guys without a job who are better bets.
But we're already paying Tosoni,
he plays decent defense, and going back down to AAA isn’t going to help him any. He’ll probably get replaced once Benson or Parmelee is ready.
But I can see him having a breakout year in 2012.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Already paying Tosoni?
Tosoni’s on a split minor/major contract. When he’s in the minors he isn’t earning the big league minimum. They don’t pay MLB minimum to everyone on the 40 man roster.
I guess I was thinking that his spot isn't significant enough
to warrant spending more money, with funds as limited as they are.
I'll quibble with sending him to AAA not helping also
Tosoni missed 2010 due to injury and was shuttled back and forth in 2011 between Rochester and the MN bench. He’s 25 years old. I think a full year in AAA could be a good thing for him. He certainly has done nothing to prove he deserves a big league job.
It's not about whether he's earned a big league job
but rather if he could ever be a starter. Parmelee and Benson seem like they have much more potential to end up starting. Getting Tosoni more major league experience as a bench player seems more important than sending him back to AAA where, given the glut of OFs, he might still struggle to get at-bats.
However, I was thinking he had had time at AAA before last year. I don’t think sending him down would be terrible. I just think that of all the given options, Tosoni makes the most sense to keep.
The Twins should keep Tosoni
He can platoon left with Ben Revere.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
I agree re: development time in AAA.
The injury cost him development and last year was no good for him. His baseball age is certainly younger than his chronological age, and I’m not remotely prepared to write him off.
by tobynotjason on Jan 20, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Hey now...
Rene Tosoni is the only Twins player EVER to hit a grand slam at Target Field.
Man, that’ll be a hell of a trivia question someday.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
3rd string catcher
I think that some of you h ave forgotten that in a pinch that Hughes can catch as well. Isn’t that what we would need probably, an inning? I would trade revere for a reliever/starter (washington is still there, as is Houston), and then you still have Tonsni and Benson. Nishi I don’t see making it. I look at our current OF and I get a little ansy. Span is still a trade option as well. Our pitching staff is shaky (though I like Baker and Marquis, Pavano) and blackburn(t) and Liriano are head cases. Balbour is still out there as a reliever, and a few others that have been mentioned (like ex-San Diego relievers) that would be an upgrade, but still shaky at best before the 8th and 9th innings (and the 9th inning might be a surprise or a bomb again). Keep Parmalee, Hughes, and Benson, and maybe even sign a BU catcher who can help. One thing the twins have is flexibility with its players, mutli-positional. Willingham, Benson, span, and trade our speedster. Then you have Tosoni (OF) and Donut (catcher, 1st, OF), and Plouffe to DH and fill in. Sign Paul M. the FA from Pitts,or FA Duke (lefty) from pItts. Seasoned veterans from the NL who might make a difference in the AL with twins.
by Paul S Intravia on Jan 20, 2012 8:10 AM EST reply actions
My biggest issue with all of this is the outfield delusion.
So you’d trade Revere for a starter/reliever, AND you’d still consider Span a trade candidate?
First off, Span’s trade value is at an all-time low. In spite of this he’s the ONLY leadoff option on this team, is likely to bounce back from last season, and has an exceptionally team-friendly contract. Unless the Twins were blown away by a trade offer, and they won’t be due to the aforementioned lack of trade value, you just don’t do it.
It’s probably worth my time to turn this into a front page post at some point soon: you just do NOT trade Denard Span. You don’t. Because no matter what happens, you lose.
With Revere, it’s more likely you can consider trading him because his value is going to be up and down depending on who you talk to. But you can sell him on his speed, contact skills, and superior defense. If you can get solid value for him, and I think it’s more likely you find a suitor out there who would give you fair value for Revere than fair value for Span (fair value for Revere is still lower than fair value for Span, but it’s all relative), then okay – maybe you do it.
But moving both is folly.
Coco Crisp sucks
He’s going to make $5M a season. Span is signed cheaper than that through 2014 and he’s a lot better than Coco Crisp.
Agreed (responded to Jesse)
You move either Revere or Span. I would have moved Ben Revere at the 2010 Non-Waiver Trade deadline for Matt Capps. In that way, Wilson Ramos would have been an option ahead of Drew Butera and we could have won more games.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
None of the above?
There were some interesting AAAA type signings for Rochester. I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if one of those guys made it.
If Parmalee destroys spring training, you may see him up to alternate with Morneau at 1B/DH. Doumit could switch to OF and keep Revere on the bench where he belongs. That would be a pretty nice offense most days with Revere coming in as a defensive sub anytime we have a decent lead going into the 7th.
I agree with others that it SHOULDN’T be Butera. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if it is. I like the AAA guy we signed to catch, and if Mauer gets hurt, I’d think he’d be the immediate callup, not Butera. I’d just assume stash Butera away in the minors to hopefully never see him again… or trade him to the Astros if they are still interested.
by diehardtwinsfan on Jan 20, 2012 10:13 AM EST reply actions
This poll really needed
A “none of the above.”. I don’t want any of those guys on the opening day roster.
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