We're Going to Talk About Payroll Because There's Nothing Else to Talk About and I'm Sorry
by RandBall's Stu on Jan 6, 2012 10:01 AM EST
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PrintWe've now reached the point where we've hung our new calendars (Jesse: the Gallagher Brothers Looking Surly Page-a-Day; Jon: The Ladies of Niche Sports; Me: iCarly; Rest of the Staff: the FanGraphs 2012 Best of Calculators and Spreadsheets), which means pitchers and catchers aren't that far away, but there's still ABSOLUTELY NOTHING GOING ON. Which is why we're arguing about the Twins payroll again, because awesome!
Phil Mackey wrote a convincing defense of the club's decision to reduce the payroll from it's 2011 high of $113 million back to around $100 million, with the reasoning that if Morneau and Mauer aren't healthy, that extra $13-$15 million isn't going to bring in enough talent to make much of a difference. He also compared the Twins relatively paltry TV income to that of the Los Angeles Angels of San Berdoo or Inland Empire or Wherever as a reason they simply aren't going to be competing for Albert Pujols or C.J. Wilson (or Prince Fielder).
The thing is...the income isn't that paltry. The team's new deal with FSN will bring in $29 million annually. Compared to the $150 million pile of lucre that the LAAoSBoIEoW will rake in, it's not a lot, but as noted by pot roast enthusiast Ben Collin, this is $27.5 million MORE per year than they were getting under their previous deal.
The angel on my shoulder tells me that they're just making sure the two MVPs are healthy, and if the team is competitive through June, they will take the money they've banked and use it to improve the team for a pennant run in August and September. The devil on my shoulder, which looks suspiciously like John Bonnes' Twitter account, asks how likely it is that this team will actually do that, and if the team is unwilling to invest money in the team, what message is that sending to the fans?
And then I just get depressed and think I should have just written something funny about Kevin Slowey abandoning R.A. Dickey on Mount Kilimanjaro because Jeff Mangum was doing a solo tour.
As always, your thoughts are welcome in the comments.
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My theory....
I think most fans — at least those whom are rational — would actually understand what’s going on if they just thought about it.
But I also think that this is an unprecedented amount of transparency by the club; think about the Joe Mauer injury. Did anyone really know what was going on, fan-wise?
I just think as fans we’re all a bit thrown by knowing the plan.
Thanks for reading.
I see it both ways
I struggle though, with the idea that the Twins are only bringing in around 200M… I tend to think it’s closer to 250 than it is to 200… and for a team that spends 52% on payroll, there’s still some room. Now they could very well be looking internationally or towards teh draft, I do get that…
But at the same time, they could take a few more low risk high reward types in the hopes that one or two pans out… then they suddenly have trade chips at the deadline if they are out of it, or a few less holes if they are in it. The team’s pen is absolutely atrocious still and they could still use another starter. I’d probably bring on Rich Harden and possibly another cheap reliever. I wouldn’t be surprised if both ended up in the pen, but at least you’d be looking at a much improved pen or a potential trade chip for relief help.
by diehardtwinsfan on Jan 6, 2012 10:31 AM EST reply actions
Well, Lets consider what we know
The Twins charged an average ticket price of 33.04 per seat. They sold a total of 3,168,107 tickets. That brings in 104,674,255. The TV deal is for 29M, so we’re at 133.5 M.
That means the Twins would need to be taking in nearly as much in concessions and merchandise as they are in tickets and TV revenue. That average ticket price is based on the non-premium games, so we might be able to add an additional 10M from those games, but before we take the boxoffice to the bank, we need to split out the share with the road team. That cost is probably offset, and maybe even improved on by the road boxoffice they get, but any increase from road box is surely eaten up by the fact that they are a revenue share payer rather than recipient.
So is it impossible that they are making around 120M in concessions and merchandise? No, since that would only require every ticket buyer to spend an average of 40 dollars on a combination of them. Is that realistic? For every family of 4 that spends $160 on food and jerseys, I’m guessing there’s a me who goes to the game and gets a $4 Killebrew. Lets not forget that this $40 dolar price would need to be for every ticket buyer. We know that the 3 Million attendance is not 3 million discreet people. That’s a lot of beers and brats, since most folks aren’t buying a new player jersey every time they go. That could be buoyed by merchandise sales in spring training and to other faraway people who attend no games, but I’m feeling more comfortable with an average peripheral revenue of $25 per ticket buyer. 75M give or take.
So I think it is fair to speculate that the revenue is around 200-215M. And this 52% of revenue to payroll has to include all employees, right? Not just MLB players? I think when you crunch the numbers, the current payroll is not as much of a travesty as previously thought.
Last year's TV deal was for $4 million
This year, they can’t expect 3 million fans. 2.5 million is more realistic. So 100 million is actually 52% of estimated revenue, even with the (relatively) huge increase in TV.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
That's just local revenue
I think there is a pot of MLB money from the national TV deal, MLB.com, etc that you aren’t including.
Picking nits
It could be close to 3 million discreet fans. We are pretty shy up here.
by archie2227 on Jan 6, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That is a tasty nit, though.
The e didn’t want to be on the end.
Other stuff
Luxury box revenue
Advertising (naming rights, in-stadium advertising, etc.)
Other licensing (national TV, video games, third-party merchandise)
For what it’s worth, though, your revenue projection looks pretty much right on overall – Forbes’ franchise valuations for 2011 estimated the Twins’ revenue at $213 million, with profit of $26.5M.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
As is hopefully obvious from my nonsense up top, I’m torn. It makes sense for the Twins to not want to throw good money after bad. It also makes sense for fans to want this team to do everything it can to be competitive. And everything comes back to the health of Mauer and Morneau, which we all know and are sick to goddamn death of talking about and just want them to play baseball and not get hurt again and Frodo brings the One Ring back to Mordor and everything turns out alright.
Punto Baggins has the Ring
And he’s in Beansgard now. I think only Gardendolf the Grey can get him back to One Twins Shire where he belongs.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 6, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
The team has plenty of talented players
But can they get the talent through the bumps, bruises and inexperience? This is the risk inherent in locking guys up. More needs to be had from guys like Plouffe, Hughes, Tosoni, and the young pitchers. M+M need to get back to health, sure, but these other capable players need to have more expected of them.
As far as the payroll goes, I think the Mauer contract shouldn’t be budgeted 100% in payroll, byt more a 70-30 split with promotions. The whole point of signing that long deal was PR. Mauer being the local boy with the HOF trajectory. They couldn’t let him walk or even seriously consider it, not with the new publicly financed digs. The public would have been incensed, to say nothing of the actual fans. The Twins made sure there wouldn’t be any chance of it by usurping the market.
If they shifted 30% of that annual cost into the marketing, and scaled back on some of the peripheral advertising, Mauer’s impact on a 100M payroll wouldn’t be quite so intese (16M). What would 7 Million less in advertising really cost them per year vs the goodwill of adding one more quality player? I’m sure there are a host of reasons that wouldn’t really work out, but no harm in spitballing / making up new accounting practices in the dead of springwinter.
I don't like it
But I’m rocking with my stuffed animal and chanting: “Stay in it ’till the break, then open the bank.” It’s an odd chant. Not really lyrical. But whatever.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I'm not sure what they're doing
They spent a bunch of money to bring in Carroll, Doumit and Marquis to make sure they don’t suck in the short term. They brought back Matt Capps because apparently they think he’s a good closer despite all the evidence. They brought in one bat – Willingham – to replace the four that left (Delmon, Thome, Cuddyer, Kubel). They have multiple issues with the pitching staff and signing Jason Marquis for 1 season doesn’t address any of those issues. After this season they will have one proven pitcher – Baker – under contract. They cannot compete in 2013 with this roster, there’s not enough pitching.
I hope they’re not following the star players + nice ballpark = profit model you see in Chicago.
What the FO has done this offseason sucks
They could have spent 6-8 million more this year to build a better bullpen and a built a pitching staff for next year when a lot more money comes off the books. That way at least if Joe n Justin are hurt the games could be competitive and compelling to watch.
Now even if those 2are healthy the bullpenwill give up the runs they gain. I expect a fair amount of 6 inning runs from the other teams, boos by late July followed by empty seats in August.
I agree
I had hopes they would hold the line on payroll. If they had, they could have brought in a Wilson Betemit to hit DH. There are a number of cheap outfielders who would be an upgrade over a Revere/Plouff platoon. And they really could use a couple of better bullpen arms. They could have got all that for less than $10 million, which still would mean a drop in payroll.
But I see the other side to this. They’re being realistic. The needs I mentioned won’t make that much difference to winning and losing. They need to find out about some kids like Revere, Plouffe, Nishioka and Casilla. They can’t find that out by getting other guys. They need to develop bullpen arms (and starters, for that matter) from within. The same argument applies there. This is a rebuilding year. It could be OK or it could be horrible. If the stars are healthy, it should be OK.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
OF
Luke Scott might be better, but Revere’s defense does make him an attractive player in that regard.
I’d have liked to have seen Coco Crisp, but when he plays like he did last year, he might even be worse than Revere was at his best. At $7 mil per annum, blech.
Betemit isn’t a DH. His bat doesn’t carry 3B, let alone DH. He’d have been an interesting option to push Valencia at third, but I don’t think the Twins are too serious about that just yet (hence only bringing in Sean Burroughs).
Thanks for reading.
by brandonwarne52 on Jan 6, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Betamit's OPS+ the last two years
2010: 141
2011: 117
That’s not bad for a DH on this team.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Bullpen
Paying 6-8 million to build a better bullpen doesn’t really work. You spend a lot, or you spend a little, but there’s really no in between.
Which is to say, you do what the Rangers/Red Sox did, or you do what the Padres/Rays always do. Anything in between is just unnecessary risk.
Thanks for reading.
by brandonwarne52 on Jan 6, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Twins were one of the worst pitching staff last year
6-8 million would go a long way to making the staff slightly above mediocre. It could have brought guys who could keep games close. That’s all I am asking for. I don’t think 6-8 million buys a World Series run and I am not begging them to go “all in.” All I want is a close well pitched game and if the team happens to have the lead through 5 innings I won’t have to pray Nick Blackburn can get through the 7th.
That is what 6-8 million buys them.
by clutterheart on Jan 6, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
6-8 Million is a lot on this year's market
Considering:
Broxton – $4 M
Iwamura – $1.5 M + incentives
MacDougal – $1 M
Corpas – $1 M
Hawkins – $3 M
Rauch – $3.5 M
Dotel – $3 M
Saito – $1.75 M
Sherrill – $1.1 M
and with names like Wheeler, Wuertz, Moylan Zumaya and Lidge still bouncing around, a few bills could make a huge difference.
I can agree with this
However they did add Duensing to the bullpen which is significant. so right now you have Capps/Duensing/Perkins as our 3 solid relievers. Yes I think Capps is solid. Not spectacular but solid.
They’re planning to add one more piece let’s say it’s Wheeler? Then it’s 4 solid relievers and a plethora of other guys that will have the chance to step up and fill 2 positions. I don’t really count the long man as just about anyone can step in and fill that role as a mop up guy.
But yes adding 6-8 million to the bullpen would be significant and give this team a much better chance to compete. Heck even Ryan Madson might end up settling for around 8 million a year with the closer market slowly dwindling.
Madson
Capps
Perk
Duensing
That’s a nice end of the bullpen, too bad it’s a pipedream.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
by halfchest on Jan 6, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I am no baseball front-office expert
So I have no way of knowing if spending X amount of money on extra players increases one’s chances of winning by Y percent, or what-have-you. Perhaps focusing on the draft is the way to go.
But I’m perfectly capable of reading academic research on sports economics, and a good one is “Sports, Jobs, and Taxes,” by Roger G.Noll and Andrew Zimbalist (Brookings Institution Press, 1997.) In it the authors conclude that a new stadium brings increased attendance for about six years on average, after which attendance is based on team performance, competing entertainment options, etc. Up until that point a new stadium is a license to print money. (The Minnesota Wild at the Xcel Center had a honeymoon period of almost a decade.)
Since the Twins have a huge chunk of payroll invested in M/M, and their abilities to deliver a corresponding amount of on-field performance is currently questionable, it is quite likely the team is calculating how to make the most out of Target Field’s honeymoon period. They would like to win, no doubt. But there will be 20+ years where they HAVE to win to draw fans. Can you blame them if they want to make as much money as possible for the next few seasons, by putting together a squad Just Interesting Enough to keep fans from forgetting how bright and shiny the new stadium is?
No. But as taxpayers, we can blame ourselves for giving this organization 300+ million without demanding that they open their books and show where the money was going. We didn’t, so they won’t.
Steve Goodman lives.
I'm ok with it
I don’t think as Pmac points out Edwin Jackson and Ryan Madson aren’t going to fix this team if the other guys can’t stay healthy. That and they possibly hamstring this team in the future as both of these guys are likely to get paid big money.
This is a straight rebuilding year and I’m ok with the Twins saving a little coin to see what happens mid season. If we’re still in it then we can maybe make some moves. I also like that they are not blocking prospects necessarily. With just normal injuries we’ll probably get a good look at guys like Hendriks, Dozier, Benson, Parmelee, etc. this season. Hopefully some of these guys establish themselves as legitimate players and can allow the team to allocate more money for a stud starting pitcher or a big bat at DH next year.
There are some good pitchers a year from free agency who could become available via trade this year. Maybe that’s just a pipe dream but the Twins were allegedly in on Cliff Lee a couple years ago so it’s possible.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
IDK
I don’t know if it’s a straight rebuild year; the club hasn’t ‘sold off’ any assets, although liquidating some free agents for picks is pretty nice. Still, why not do that with Capps? But I digress….
The problem with rebuilding is that all the Twins’ liquid assets would be a healthy Denard Span (doesn’t exist), Scott Baker (lone vestige to a good rotation at this point), and maybe Danny V (too low to sell on at this point).
It’s just not a great situation, and I think it was cause by a more reactionary front office than one which would have gone out and met its needs head on rather than waiting around.
Thanks for reading.
by brandonwarne52 on Jan 6, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe i Misspoke
Well it’s a straight rebuild for a team that can’t justify a firesale and doesn’t have the pieces to firesale. As you point out all of their best assets would be selling low at this point. I just meant that breaking the bank on the big name guys might not have been the best call. It’s a chance to see what some of the younger guys have and see what they’re going to need long term.
I agree wholeheartedly regarding Capps. Should have let him walk and get the pick. Could have signed one or two nice bullpen pieces with that money but I think what attracted the Twins was the short commitment. They have a lot of good bullpen prospects at AA/AAA (Guerra/Gutierrez/Waldrop/Oliveros) and I’m guessing the hope is that some of them step up and show they can handle late inning work.
Same with guys like Revere/Plouffe. They’re both marginal guys with limited upside however if Revere can find a way to get on base a bit more and Plouffe can flash the power he’s showed in the minors they could be valuable/cheap role players for years. This will also give some other guys at AAA to likely show what thye’ve got like Benson/Parmelee/Tosoni/Hendriks/ etc.
So I just see rebuilding as seeing what you’ve really got before you go for broke and lock yourself into long term deals with expensive Free Agents.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
There isn't enough pitching
I agree with not paying big money for an outfielder or a first baseman right now. I would like to see them acquire more pitching.
Money is just a part of the narrative.
More disconcerting than a $100 million payroll is how they’ve chosen to spend it. I’m on board with a lot of their decisions – Cuddyer, Kubel, Nathan, Willingham, Doumit, Carroll are all good moves. Marquis and Capps aren’t terrible for the price, but they aren’t moves that support a winning team.
And the most damning thing is the total lack of movement in the bullpen. We know they’re looking, but the longer they wait to make a move the fewer options they have. But again – it’s less about money, and more about the decisions. Free agents aren’t the only answer.
There’s also the issue of expectations. After spending so much last year, of course nobody is happy about payroll reduction – whether it’s a defensible and responsible decision or not. Managing expectations is a difficult job on the best of days; managing expectations for a sports team in the situation like the Twins are in is a no-win situation.
Ultimately, running a team is about more than just spending money because you can. That’s not how it works. Over the last 11 years or so the Twins have been very responsible (and successful) in how they’ve spent their money, even if it means they haven’t made the best free agent decisions.
There’s nothing wrong with holding the organization’s feet to the fire, but wanting the FO to spend money just to spend money is short sighted and misses the point of running a baseball team (or any business). There’s more to personnel decisions than money. And when it comes to personnel decisions, as Brandon points out above, the Twins are a little bit limited in how much they can do with the Major League roster.
Hmm...
Jesse,
I do agree with a lot of what you say however I need to disagree with you when you say “Ultimately, running a team is about more than just spending money because you can. That’s not how it works. […]”
Look at the Yankees. All they do is spend money. And what do they have to show for it? That’s an easy answer. A lot of world series rings.
You're selling the Yankees short.
They do more than just spend money. They spend money because they can, but they also make a lot of smart personnel decisions – and that goes beyond money. And they’ve only won it once since the turn of the century, so let’s not pretend like their fat payroll is the ultimate answer. The Red Sox and Cardinals have both won the Series twice in that span.
Money makes it easier, absolutely. Easier to get the players you need, easier to get the players you want, and it’s easier to cover up mistakes. But the Twins have reaped a smaller version of that benefit over the last year or so with the opening of Target Field. It’s allowed them to retain Pavano, sign Hudson, spend for both Capps and Nathan last year, sign Mauer, pick up Cuddyer’s option.
It’s a mistake to think that it’s only about money. The Twins won divisions with payrolls half of what we saw last year. The Rays compete every year now thanks to consistently strong decisions by their front office.
Waiting
And the most damning thing is the total lack of movement in the bullpen. We know they’re looking, but the longer they wait to make a move the fewer options they have.
I just listened to Gleeman and Bonnes’ podcast this morning (aside: I could not recommend that podcast more highly to Twins fans – both guys know their stuff and are entertaining), and they mentioned that there have been some reports (maybe from LEN3?) that the Twins are done for the offseason – their bullpen “move” was re-signing Capps. Rather than wait too long to make a move, they may have made the opposite mistake – there are still a bunch of far cheaper, arguably better options available thanks to the market being flush with relievers.
John brought up the point that this was an underplayed hallmark of Ryan’s infamous risk-averse nature – he liked to have all his moves made early in the offseason lest he risk having nothing available late. That was one thing Smith proved good at – he was content to wait for guys like Thome, Hudson, and Pavano to become available at a post-holiday discount.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
I HATE JANUARY
I hate, hate, HATE it. I’m not a basketball fan. I’m not much of a hockey fan. January (and the first half of February) is the time of winter sportless hell for me. The Vikings are done, and the Twins won’t even show up to start playing catch for six more weeks. Kill me now.
Take up curling
Or become a Packers fan.
by ColossusOfRhode on Jan 6, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
how abut
no…. and HELL NO!!!!!
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Jan 6, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
A baseball fan and writer whose name I won't mention
(Because I hate him and hope he dies) once said that the only way to get through the offseason was baseball movies. To that I’d add friends, family, love, work, charity, ZZZzzzzzz . . . let’s pick a random crappy player who’ll have two good spring training outings to get excited about NOW!
Steve Goodman lives.
Chris Parmelee will have a killer spring,
be sent to Rochester anyway, and people will gnash teeth. RAARRR!!
I hope we don't need him in April or May
That would mean Justin is still struggling to return.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Parmelee will be smashing it up in Spring Training.
Although… I think he might make a case to play 1B/DH if he has a REALLY good Spring.
But now that I think about it… maybe not because Hughes rocked it Spring and Tolbert, of all people, got onto the 25 man.
How are you not a hockey fan?
Do you not live in Minnesota?
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
Hockey's OK.
I’ll watch it sometimes, but I’m not going to watch every game or follow roster decisions or anything like that. I’m not into it enough that it can keep my attention on a daily basis. I’m also involved with roller derby, but January is a lull for that, too. I feel like I’m going through withdrawls.
You may like it, but I think basketball is boring.
“Oh what an amazing play! It accounts for 2% of that team’s scoring in this game!”
The problem with basketball for me is that no matter how amazing a play is, it doesn’t end up meaning much unless it’s within the last 5 minutes of a game. There’s just too much scoring. It’s the opposite problem of soccer, which (IMO) is equally boring for it’s lack of anything ever happening.
Look out for fencing though. Because of the stance . . .
The back leg tends to be way more muscular than the front. But if symmetry doesn’t matter to you, then engarde!
Steve Goodman lives.
I know something you do not know
I am not left handed
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jan 6, 2012 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
...
My name is cmathewson. You re-signed Nick Punto. Prepare to die.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Jan 6, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Twins fell victim to one of the classic blunders
The most important of which is never get involved with light-hitting middle-infielders from Asia, but only slightly less important is this: never take on an overweight “closer” when draft picks are on the line!
by AM. on Jan 7, 2012 8:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
* Is Nick Punto Sicilian?
Hmmmm…Twins don’t pick up LNP’s option, then the Twins lose 99 games while L’il Nicky goes on to win the ring.
by AM. on Jan 7, 2012 8:10 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Clearly you have a dizzying intellect
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Also, my calendar is only of the Gallaghers' eyebrows.
It’s called Le Booshy Eyebrow Spektakular, and was produced in Russia. I think they, like me, are afraid of looking directly into Noel Gallagher’s eyes.
Here's a link from Forbes magazine
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/baseball-valuations-11_Minnesota-Twins_330400.html
Interesting number when compared to other teams in baseball.
This is probably my favorite Twinkie Town post ever.
Besides Jessy S’s epic McDonald’s post, but that goes without saying.
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
I tried to, but no amount of alcohol could kill those cells
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Wait... you never read the Jessy S's McDonald's post?
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
Make sure to read all the comments too.
"It happened in the moment, and it happened." - Carlos Gomez
Oh yeah!
I did read it once and then never went back. I missed all the great comments. “The next Twinkie Town t-shirt” – brilliance. I also love how at some point I get mixed up with him.
Nasty. Nasty.
Way to perpetuate the myth once again
We all know Jessy S. is your drunk alter ego.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Twins 2011 payroll: $112M
Rank: 9th
Finish: 29th
Twins 1991 payroll: $23M
Rank: 15th
Finish: 1st
Twins 1987 payroll: $11M
Rank: 12th
Finish: 1st
yanquis #1 ranked 1987 payroll was $17M
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 6, 2012 7:47 PM EST reply actions
a comment about past payrolls and finishes has nothing to do with an article about payroll?
Okey dokey.
Plus I never mentioned the bullpen so you’re 0 fer 2.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 6, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
You guys are adorable when you fight
Also, are you saying that 2011 Joe Mauer could buy 1.5 1987 Yankees?
by AM. on Jan 7, 2012 8:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
NO!
He could buy 2 1987 Twins teams.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jan 7, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm…I didn’t know there was an official scorer…I am going to have to take my comments more seriously unless its Tom Moe, then I have nothing to worry about….I highly doubt those team chopped their payroll by 13% and won a WS…In fact I highly doubt ANY team has been successful after chopping their payroll by 13%. Of course that is a gut feeling and I have not actually looked it up.
by clutterheart on Jan 9, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe the Twins will use the extra money on their draft picks,
since they have 6 picks in the top 100 in 2012.
I agree to an extent that adding more bats to the lineup won’t solve their problems on the offensive side of the ball. Cuddyer is touted as being a great leader, but his talent could not overcome the deluge of injuries on that side of the ball. Adding adding an upper-middle replacement for him wouldn’t really be worth it. If the M&M boys are back, the Twins will do well. If they are not, they won’t, even with some additions.
However, the pitching staff is still terrible on paper and none of us would be shocked if the pitching staff performs below our minimalist expectations. Adding pitching talent would buffer some of the injuries, should those injuries occur, and would certainly help if for example Morneau is never decent again. The Twins may not make the playoffs if their pitching is good but their hitting is not, but they won’t lose 99 games either.
Mauer
I wonder if even Joe Mauer knows how his salary is effecting the payroll status if he is injuried again and how it affected the team last season. It would be nice he stayed healthy and drew in the attendence this season.
by Minnesota Morgan on Jan 7, 2012 1:10 PM EST reply actions
what the pohlads needs to do
pohlads need to overhaul the front office. bringing back terry ryan was not a mistake but a big mistake at that. how many world series titles has he won, NONE!!!!! what this franchise needs are owners who care and the pohlads do not care as of late. dont tell me the pohlads do care because they dont with their father put this franchise up for sale (97) and contraction (2000).
Is it March yet?
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." ~George F. Will
40 days 'till pitchers and catchers report
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Twins Payroll and players
I am still upset with last years Twins season. I had expected after spring training to see the team rocket into the playoffs with ease, and possibly even beat the Yankees. I was wrong. I was upset that Morneau was out, and upset to see fellow players look at him in disgust while he sat on the bench. I was upset with Mauer for not opening up to the coaching staff about his off season training schedule, thus his leg weakness and later other issues. I was upset with Slowey, who whined and cried he did not deserve to pitch out of the bull pen, yet when he did start he was awful. Lirianna upset me with his lack of consistancey and command. Mijaris upset me with his attitude on the mound. I did respect Nathan for pulling himself out of the closer role early in the season, but I am upset that he opted out of $28.5 million dollar offer. Same goes for Cuddyer. The Twins offer was good but he left for reasons no one is truly sure of. Kubel got hurt and never really healed up. He left after considering that Minnesota won’t be in the playoffs for a while and maybe a change is better. The ptiching staff sucked last year. The starters, (Baker, Pavanno, Duensing,) gave their all but, just couldn’t go a full 8 or 9 innings most of the time. The relief staff other than Perkins was useless.
For the Twins to dump a whole lot of money on free agents like Beltran or CJ Wilson etc is not gonna happen. They have $39 million going out in one year on two players that ain’t producing. Maybe they are gun shy now. Can’t blame them.. I am sure the management don’t want to raise ticket prices either just to support and idea to spend more.
You're wrong about Mauer
Mauer had surgery in December. His training regimen was logged down to the minute. It just takes catchers longer to come back from knee surgery. That’s not Joe’s fault. It’s the medical staff’s who inexplicably delayed his surgery for two months after the 2010 season, which was the extra time he needed to get ready for 2011. Don’t blame Joe. He worked as hard or harder than prescribed by the training staff. Blame the medical staff and the coaching staff for expecting too much, and miscommunicating with the media. And blame the media for screwing the whole story up.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Mauer - again!
Mauer is not 100% blamess either. I agree the FO botched it up and the training staff also made a lot of mistakes, the same way they did with Hardy, Neshek, Slowey and many others. But Mauer is not blamess.
I would say its 50% trainers, 35% FO for not knowing how to tell a story , 20% Mauer and 30% Mauer’s agent for not taking control of the story.
(yes I know that is more than 100% but so what, its the internet)
by clutterheart on Jan 9, 2012 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
I'll give you that Mauer didn't take control of the story until it was too late for many
I think he underestimated the vitriol that the media can whip up against a local future Hall Of Famer. Perhaps he figured he’d get the Hrbek treatment, relative to whom Mauer looks like a saint. There again, that might be the real problem. Average people hate saints because they remind them of how shabby their lives look in comparison.
Mauer did try to take control through Joe C. For whatever reason, people preferred LEN III’s account. Maybe guys like Souhan, Reusse and Sansevere thought it would sell more papers to diss the local hero. Maybe fans needed someone to blame for the crappy season and the contract seemed the likely scapegoat.
Is it the player’s job to be an expert in PR? I suppose it worked for Torii and Cuddy. All I know is the common belief in this case is far from the truth. The main culprits are the Twins PR department and the media.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
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