The One That Strengthens Our Resolve
Daily Norseman flexes its muscle. It's not inconsiderable, either. I like it.
3 months ago
Jesse
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stadium threads are the only thing I can't read at DN
They’re so shrill I feel like I"m listening to a bunch of cake-eating Edina suburbanites whining about the fact that the gum’mint subsidizes buses in Minneapolis.
Or something. Not really sure where I was going with that. But good grief, the rending of garments and gnashing of teeth over there gets to be a bit much.
by ravenfly on Feb 2, 2012 12:49 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
oh also
a specific quote comes to mind. . .it comes from the television show The Wire, and it’s spoken by Omar Little. It’s a very simple quote.
“When you come at the king, you best not miss.”
Really? Like, really really? I don’t take myself that seriously at my actual job.
by ravenfly on Feb 2, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm sorry that we are passionate about our team and don't want them to leave Minnesota.
Even if some people still seem to be in denial that they will leave.
"I wanted to do it because it's fun, it's fun to do bad things and drive into a car."
by PurplePeopleEaters on Feb 2, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
A little passion, even if it's a bit hyperbolic, is exactly what the Vikings need
if they’re going to stay in Minnesota.
Sure, the post was a little dramatic, but if I thought the Twins were within a few breaths of leaving I’d be ready to incite a little panic, too. If it meant that people realized that it was a big deal, and if it meant people realized what they might lose without action, absolutely.
When push comes to shove, a measured and paced argument isn’t going to work for everyone. But it’s not like DN was going all Bushwhacker (remember those guys?).
Good for them for taking a stand and being an example.
by Jesse on Feb 2, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I seen it too
Basically they have the right to go all crazy over there, or here too. I mean Allen’s Wounded Warrior Project was being sponsored in a small gambling game hosted by the site, and Mark Dayton has the gall to order it to be taken down. What’s next, Twinkie Town enters a march madness pool and the site is shut down simply because we are raising money for Dog Rescue groups.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
I'd probably care more...
… if the Vikings didn’t ridiculous fail at Superbowl triumphs, or hadn’t been ridiculously mismanaged for years and years.
There is an elementary alternative
The state of Minnesota could chose to use its power of eminent domain to acquire the Vikings instead of using it to take land for a new stadium. Under the new powers created under the Supreme Court’s (incredibly bad, BTW) Kelo decision the state could force the Wilf’s to sell the team to the state who could sell it to someone who won’t move the team. All they have to do is prove there is a compelling economic interest in forcing the transaction. Ironically, the evidence the state will need has already been provided by all the pro-stadium propaganda from just about every team has used since the Colts moved to Indy that has always exaggerated teams’ economic benefits. The benefit of this action is that if successful it will kill the economic blackmail that is the key part of pro sports business plan. If this happens I predict a whole host of billionaires will suddenly discover there was a spare $400 million hidden their couch cushions that they can use to build stadiums.
The only stat that counts is W
I'm not sure even Kelo
Extends to intangible property.
Wait, am I reading this right?
The Daily Norseman set up some sort of Super Bowl pool that was going to give a chunk of the pot to charity, but some unknown lobbyist turned them in for illegal gambling and it was shut down? And they think it’s because of their pro-stadium position?
Really? Really?
God bless America.
Yep. That's about it.
I’ll also eat crow if the political threat to back any candidate, despite party, based on the stadium issue actually materializes.
I'd agree, but there's a part of me
that knows that lobbyists can be petty, petty people. And IF that lobbyist happened to be anti-stadium, then…okay.
It’s still interesting.
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not trying to take sides here
I just think it’s amusingly absurd all around. In fact, if it does turn out to be an anti-stadium lobbyist who turned them in, I think they’ve got a movie plot on their hands. Not a good movie, mind you, but one I might watch if there was nothing else on.
by ColossusOfRhode on Feb 2, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
With this weather we've been having?
Pshh I don’t know what TV is anymore…
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
I can agree with that
All our snow is in Europe.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
How much
Do Vikings fans hate the Twins? This offseason is exhibit A on why you should not give public money to sports ownership.
Twins cutting payroll by 11million will be a reason why the vikes will be in LA
by clutterheart on Feb 2, 2012 5:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Wha?
One small step for you, one giant leap in logic for the rest of us. Let me try to unpack that:
1. Twins received public help in the form of stadium and infrastructure financing
2. Twins increased payroll by 30% the first year in the new stadium and won the division
3. Twins increased payroll slightly in second year, yet had their worst year in almost three decades
4. Twins decreased payroll by 10% in third year, still up 20% from old stadium budget
5. Vikings lease in old stadium runs out
6. Vikings ask for similar stadium deal as Twins
.
.
.
326. Public wails and gnashes teeth that the Vikings will decrease payroll in third year of new stadium to below salary cap.
327. Public angst over possible decrease in payroll leads to another stadium fail in the legislature
.
.
.
582. Vikings move to LA
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Feb 2, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Its politics, not a classroom
I get it what you are saying, but in a political battle leaps in logic don’t really matter.
With the Twins cutting payroll and the loss of 2 All-Stars and one Good player, stadium opponents are given fresh ammunition to blast publicly funded stadiums as corporate giveaways. I think we will see the legislator hold hearings and discuss the Twins, their revenue and how their profits from a tax giveaway are being spent.
I am not saying I agree. All I am saying is it gives the opponents another bullet. And in an economic environment that we are in now, stadium proponents, should be pissed that in already stacked deck, the “anti” folks have another argument.
They could
But that would be to pacify the anti-stadium crowd. No matter how you slice it, the Twins were likely going to have a payroll reduction.
Last year we paid $14 million for two closers and about $9 million for Michael Cuddyer who really wasn’t worth the money. Subtracting Josh Willingham’s salary, Matt Capps Salary, and Joe Nathan’s buyout, the money saved is going to be around $10 million.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
In my experience
the anti stadium crowd only needs to use the, “I ain’t paying my money for that” line. I’m actually for the stadium, despite my politics. IMO, Zygi doesn’t deserve public dollars, but that’s the only way it gets done. So be it. Nonetheless, the only argument needed to persuade my “Cheers bar” against the stadium was: why the hell should I pay tax money for this team? Taxes have become so polarizing that good investment doesn’t matter. Whether it be…. well, nevermind.
Btw,
I"m in Anoka County. Not exactly blue nation.
Why do you always have to be such a Debbie Downer?
2012 opener: Minnesota RollerGirls (#2, North Central) vs Old Capitol Ciry Roller Girls (unranked, North Central) - Sat 2/4/2012 in the Roy Wilkins Auditorium, St. Paul MN. mnrollergirls.com
I do know
As I have said I have never been as down on my Squad/FO/team as I have been this year.
A new stadium should’ve allowed the team to take some gambles on payroll this year to make up for the poor decisions they have made in previous years. That is the whole point of new revenue. Instead they are taking the metrodome approach and being risk adverse on a government subsidy.
And I get annoyed with the folks who either cheerlead for the Pohlads bank account or too easily accept the "can’t afford xxxxx" when clearly the Twins can, they just refuse to do so. Couple this with their taking of tax dollars and it turns me into the Debbie downer I don’t want to be.
by clutterheart on Feb 2, 2012 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Gambles
If you look at the gambles the team made with Smith at the helm, I am much more comfortable with a conservative approach.
Optimistic fans liked the wheeler dealer in the FO. We herard it all over the blogosphere. “Finally, we have someone who’s not maniacally focused on upside and payroll and is willing to take risks to win now.”
The experiment with playing fast and loose with payroll and prospects is over. Thank goodness.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Fast and loose with prospects?
I can think of 2. Ramos, Garza/Bartlett. Was there another? I can’t say I can speak to TR’s 1st term, but there had to be a couple bad trades there. Sorry, I wanted to buy the Ryan kool aid, but this year’s bullpen decisions are not working.
$10 mil extra
makes this team close to .500 w/o Morneau. $3 for Kotchman, $3 for 2 cheap bullpen arms, $4 for whatever else. (say what you will about Kotchman, but he’s a steal on that contract)
That's plenty
Ace pitcher. Starting catcher. Two commodities you don’t just throw around.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Really?
Thank Goodness they didn’t sign Wheeler, Quallis, or some other RH pitcher? Thank Goodness that they are closing their eyes and hoping that Morneau will be healthy and not signing a back-up? Thank Goodness that they are relying on Zumaya to be an effective pitcher? I don’t understand your approach.
I could never cheerlead the Pohlads interest revenue in this manner.
by clutterheart on Feb 2, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
They need another reliever. But I believe they still have time to sign one of two relievers. We could probably sign Coffey or Weurtz on MFA deals. Waiting is not always a bad strategy. We could even offer one of them a major league deal, if we’re willing to remove one of our expendable 40-man players. The closer you get to Spring Training, the easier it is to sign guys cheaply. Kenny Rogers says hi.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Unfortunately they have this very backwards.
Who hates online gambling on football so much that they were willing to throw millions of poker players under the bus to pass the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act? The NFL.
Who seems to have an unfettered direct pipeline to the governor? The pro-stadium lobby.
It seems very likely to me that they were turned in by their own side, who are now reaping the benefits.
True
The NFL thrives on gambling. Since that is the case, why don’t they start to investigate their officials. They are like the director in the Buffalo Wild Wings ad who forces overtime simply because the fans are having too much fun.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
I was born in MN but havent lived there for 10 years, though I am about to return soon
so I really have no place to say much on how state tax money should be spent even though I do hope the Vikings get a stadium and stay in MN. That being said this is just another ridiculous example of the absolute failure of the American political system. Righteous cause or not this is still calling for you to spend your excess money to bolster the advertising campaign of political officials. Lobbyists now run this country and elect our officials, lobbyists that are funded mainly by large corporations and extremely wealthy individuals. Each election might come down to 2 or 3 people from each of the major parties with the possibility of winning, though even that is rare, but candidates never come close to even reaching the chance of gaining office without being backed by the money of the nations elite and corporations essentially having their spot on the final ballot bought by whoever backed them in return for giving them favor once office is held.
first-worst-first?
Seems like it would have been better to get a permit first.
Even church bingo’s and school raffles need permission, don’t they?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 3, 2012 11:33 AM EST reply actions
Not a big fan of public money into any business venture
Just stating that out front. I am a Twins and Vikings fan. That said, this issue is ridiculous. Supposedly we live in a free country, which means they are entitled to doing this. People create pools like this all the time, just go to any superbowl party. It is just one more example of why it is we need to significantly shrink the size and scope of the government.
Somalia: A Libertarian paradise.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 3, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Not to get too political
Name one business with more than 100 employees in this state that has not had help with infrastructure or facilities. Can’t do it.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Difference being
Creating pools in private vs. online
by twinscrazy_german on Feb 3, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions























